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Are our moose dwindling? David says so

Wednesday, April 16, 2014   by: SooToday.com Staff

NEWS RELEASE

MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES

*************************
Aerial Surveys Show Declines in Northern Ontario

To ensure moose populations remain healthy and resilient, Ontario is reducing adult moose tags across the province by about 18 percent for 2014.

The reductions are in response to declining moose populations in northern Ontario, which were noted by provincial biologists during this winter's annual aerial surveys.

The largest tag reductions will occur in areas with the largest declines.

Ontario’s moose population has remained relatively stable over the past decade; however, most areas of northeastern Ontario and the more accessible parts of northwestern Ontario have recently been showing signs of decline.

Many factors can contribute to population shifts, such as harvest, predation, parasites, habitat condition and low calf numbers.

Ontario has been working with key stakeholders and the hunting community to respond to these changes and plans to seek public input this summer on next steps.

"Ontario and its partners have agreed that we must act now to secure the future of moose in this province. Moose are not only important to Ontario’s economy, particularly in northern communities, but they are also vital to our province’s biodiversity," says David Orazietti, minister of Natural Resources.

Ontario continues to set long-term population targets and look at how and when moose can be hunted in this province through its Moose Project.

For more information about the moose tags available in your area, see the 2014 Hunting Summary Regulations at ontario.ca/hunting.

Ontario's moose draw opens on April 22, 2014.

Read more about moose management in Ontario at ontario.ca/moose or Moose Survey Results by Region.

*************************

Comments
79
Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Mr. Poster 4/16/2014 3:11:32 PM Report

What did David do to help those poor deer all winter ? I suspect many did not make it. A few feeding stations might have made a big difference.
pastoutla 4/16/2014 3:11:50 PM Report

Does this reduction effect everyone or just the public ?
jowo60 4/16/2014 3:14:16 PM Report

Does anyone know where to get the info for the moose surveys. is it online somewhere...
steelworker 4/16/2014 3:17:15 PM Report

When you are shooting moose in the Spring it really doesn't help the population.
sooperman 4/16/2014 3:22:02 PM Report

I'm sure the cancellation of the spring bear hunt has nothing to do with these numbers ...the bears are praying on the calves each spring....ministry and gov't brought this on to appease the southern voters
SooToday2014 4/16/2014 3:22:50 PM Report

jowo60 The link to the moose surveys was inadvertently cut off in editing. It's back now.
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 3:26:24 PM Report

@ Steelworker. Shooting a moose in the spring is and always was illegal.
IgnorantNortherner 4/16/2014 3:42:00 PM Report

@Maximus, always, like for 0.000000000000001% of Earth's history always, right? Oh, okay.

Interesting how you interpreted his/her comment as legality was not mentioned.
right wing 4/16/2014 3:43:54 PM Report

MaximusPrime

....not for everybody.
B Boy 4/16/2014 3:46:23 PM Report

Going back a few years the Ontario government cut many budgets including the MNR. The MNR used to conduct annual moose inventories across WMU's via helicopter. Various MNR departments didn't properly communicate and there were many logging roads and areas approved negatively impacting the moose population. This caused the moose numbers to decline. Because the MNR budget didn't allow for helicopter surveys, they went off previous years' trending, unknowing that the logging had significantly impacted the moose population the MNR offer too many moose tags to hunters. These 2 factors along with spring hunting under treaties are no doubt significant factors.

Northerners have been asking for the bear hunt for years - the real reason it's been approved is damage control for a party that is trying to gain more votes in the north. It has very little to do with people in southern Ontario. Bears in southern Ontario is nothing new. It's just been sensationalized by the media scrambling to find stories in quiet areas.
razeandcrash 4/16/2014 3:53:23 PM Report

They need to start making status native americans follow the same rules as everybody else. a lot of them t take down a large amount of animals just because they can. As there are lot of people that hunt ethically and legally, but when you drive by a persons yard and they have 5 moose hanging out of season there is something definitely wrong. There are a lot of factors that affect the moose population but that is a definite big factor in our area wether you like to admit it or not.
clyde705 4/16/2014 4:02:06 PM Report

the bear and wolf population has a hell of a lot to do with it, I'm in the bush a lot, and see it getting worse every year. It would be nice if there were a few more bear and wolf hunters to kind of balance it out, lol.
Ranlor 4/16/2014 4:03:58 PM Report

@razeandcrash @rightwing
You guys nailed it. Not really sure if we can call it poaching tho... maybe just greed and spite
divemedic 4/16/2014 4:08:55 PM Report

Glad they brought back the spring bear hunt, but unfort we won't be able to access the bush till near the end of the season. I am glad they are in one way reducing the tags offered... so those groups that always apply and never get will save some cash. We need to reduce the deer, wolf and bear pressure on the moose for them to rebound from this and the past several winters. Unfort I am going to miss my moose hunt, but where i hunt I can buy extra deer tags, so venison will fill my freezer !
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 4:39:18 PM Report

O, I’m sorry. I thought it would be common sense to assume that prior to government’s existence, there were no regulations governing hunting…… or at least none that were recorded in native history or on cave men paintings. So, to clarify, the Ontario government does not, nor has it ever allowed a spring Moose hunt. Before everybody goes off about blaming native hunters, I would like to see the scientific evidence rather than rely on anecdotal evidence which seems often to have racist undertones. Are the surveys finding drastic differences in/around reserve land? If so, is there a causational relationship between native hunting practices and moose population. Without this type of analysis, your point is weak.
Ski-Dude 4/16/2014 4:45:53 PM Report

There is no impact. Lmao
right wing 4/16/2014 4:51:32 PM Report

MaximusPrime

I knew it would not take long and you did not disappoint.
There has been NO race card played here pal.
right wing 4/16/2014 4:52:23 PM Report

...except that is by you.
Yogi1 4/16/2014 4:52:46 PM Report

One change would solve the problem...!!

Have ALL NATIVES APPLY FOR a TAG as well....!!!!

AND ENFORCE IT..!!
mjr 4/16/2014 4:56:48 PM Report

How can these aerial surveys be accurate with only 47% of wmu’s in the north west,25% in the northeast wmu’s and 26% in the southern wmu’s,and still reduce tags in unsurveyed wmu’s.
I do not believe these surveys are done with Infra red but probably the potvin double count which
I have read is very subjective in its accuracy in cases from 2-39% inaccurate due to animals minimal movement,deep snow,yarding in heavy cover,but we are all told this is what we have.
It also makes you question the management by increasing the predator pressure on the moose and deer,eliminate spring bear hunt(more bears),rule changes on wolves and coyotes resulting in more of them.When I started hunting I would rarely see coyotes let alone wolves and usually as individuals but in the last 8 yrs I see them all the time and in packs.I have also seen a steady increase in bears since the spring bear hunt cancellation.
The MNR is only managing to eliminate the general public of men and women as predators of moose and deer.I would like to see what decreases the outfitters are getting.
right wing 4/16/2014 4:58:21 PM Report

Yogi1

That will never happen.
That being said a member of our hunting party is metis and can hunt without a tag.
He does not and applies with the rest of our hunting party.
It would be ignorant to suggest that the moose population dwindling is due in any large part to native hunting rights.
At the same time it would also be ignorant to suggest that there is not a role played by some that use that right in an improper manner.

MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 5:02:47 PM Report

Yours and other’s statements insinuate that the problem lies with native hunting practices. These insinuations are made without any credible support. That is the point I am making. Support your opinions with scientific facts and you might have something. Otherwise, I call BS?

Since you seem to be in denial about your own and other statements. The following are examples of these insinuations:

“....not for everybody” (by right wing)

“They need to start making status native americans follow the same rules as everybody else. a lot of them t take down a large amount of animals just because they can” (by razeandcrash)

“@razeandcrash @rightwing You guys nailed it. Not really sure if we can call it poaching tho... maybe just greed and spite” (by Ranlor)
right wing 4/16/2014 5:05:39 PM Report

mjr

Most of the laws are enacted due to the reports of the Biologists which are employed by the MNR.
You are correct on what you state about some of the moose count methods.
If you talk to any C.O. that is an outdoor enthusiast they will tell you they do not agree with many of the laws that us hunters bitch about but of course they have to enforce them.
Like all other areas of outdoors, you get the "politicians" and desk warriors involved and they will find a way to make us pay.
K FINLAYSON 4/16/2014 5:12:47 PM Report

I spent the winter of 2012,2013 in Nakina, Ontario working in the bush. There was incredible hunting pressure on the moose around O Sullivan Lake in January and February, I was shocked and had no idea how many were being hunted in the winter. Furthermore, wolf kills were quite common as well. But the numbers being taken by individual hunters were staggering. Not all the hunters were taking multiple moose in the winter, but some were.
right wing 4/16/2014 5:14:50 PM Report

“....not for everybody” (by right wing)

MaximusPrime

You are great at taking from context.

That was in response to:

MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 3:26:24 PM Report

@ Steelworker. Shooting a moose in the spring is and always was illegal.

In other words it is not illegal for everybody and that is a fact.

Again I will assert that it is you that is working hard at making this a race issue.

I have a family member that is a C.O.
When they charge a non-native for poaching the charge goes to court, they usually get their conviction.
It took multiple charges of poaching to get a conviction of a native in court that was practicing night hunting.
Mounds of evidence before a C.O. will even charge.
Don't give me your B.S. about scientific studies and don't come back that I am painting with a wide brush.
As I said this goes on, it does play a role and there is nothing racist about it.
Montec 125 4/16/2014 5:18:32 PM Report

Moose hunting, any hunting for that matter must only be allowed during designated hunting seasons. The seasons
are in place to maintain wildlife populations. Any taking of wildlife outside of a hunting season should be illegal for all. People who spend a great amount of time in the bush ought to realize this and adjust their hunting habits to fit the Provincial hunting seasons in order to have a healthy, flourishing wildlife population.
The return of the spring bear hunt will help but it is too bad they had not included non resident hunters. It would be good for the northern economy and the outfitters could recoup some of their loses for the last how many years.
IgnorantNortherner 4/16/2014 5:22:16 PM Report

@Maximus, the only thing anyone is insinuating is that natives hunt moose, and you seem to find that hard to believe or offensive and require links and facts and analyses, etc. It happens.

IF there is a declining moose population than ANYONE that has killed moose has contributed to it....

...but it's like you believe that because something is illegal it couldn't possibly happen. Happens all the time, big guy.

MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 5:25:27 PM Report

You stating so, doesn’t make it so. As for your comment regarding “BS Science”; that says it all. Based on your rationale, we should just ask the CO what should be done. Law enforcement always knows what best for us, don’t they? Now that’s what I call BS! You are aware how many moose die from traffic accidents, disease, predators, man-made encroachments on habitat, pollution…….. ? There are many possibilities for declining populations. As for me, I’ll stick with the scientific method when deciding what “is” and what “is not”. Your anecdotal stories just don’t cut it.
PrattStar 4/16/2014 5:30:00 PM Report

Things that may help:
1: Close the general open season on calfs. Draw for adult tags only.
2: Increase opportunities and bag limits for wolf hunting.
3: Bring back the spring bear hunt.
4: Engage with First Nations elders to encourage co-operation in the restoration of the moose population for everyone's benefit.
5: Do Not, I repeat DO NOT feed them in the winter. This can lead to the transmission of CWD and other illnesses.
right wing 4/16/2014 5:30:51 PM Report

MaximusPrime

Exactly you bozo.
There are many issues that contribute to the moose population dropping.
I stated that those that use their privilege improperly were PART of the problem.
Now please explain to me how you do a "scientific" study of this.
You have a skull about as thick as moose, I'll give you that.
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 5:32:08 PM Report

Ignorant Northerner. Sustainable hunting practices can actually help the population. But hey, who needs to know the science? Your intuition is more than adequate (sarcasm). And clearly there was an insinuation that native hunting practices are to blame (at least in part)for the problem. Maybe you should re-read the posts. I am not even saying that is not a possibility, but I would require more than just random opinions and stories to convince me of that.
right wing 4/16/2014 5:34:08 PM Report

...and as far as C.O's go, as in any law enforcement there are good and bad.
If you want to really know what is happening ask those on the front line...as in, those that actually go in the forest, see the poaching and do the charging.

Your contempt for law enforcement Maxprime shows and is very telling.
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 5:37:12 PM Report

Wow! The personal insults really make your argument more convincing...... I am impressed! Right wing...... you are so very, very smart.
right wing 4/16/2014 5:38:12 PM Report

MaximusPrime

sci·ence
ˈsīəns/
noun
noun: science

1.
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Now again I will ask you how you use "science" in the application of automobile contact with wildlife and poaching.
These are called statistics.
kaima 4/16/2014 5:38:13 PM Report

I think most of the comments are relevant, however, even a half blind person can see that since the Spring bear hunt was banned, and mandatory licence to hunt wolves and coyotes was introduced, the Moose population started to decrease tremendously.(what kind of a idiot government do we have anyway)?????
right wing 4/16/2014 5:40:04 PM Report

Sorry did the "bozo" hurt your feelings...I just get impatient with somebody that keeps dancing around answering the really hard questions.

;)
right wing 4/16/2014 5:42:56 PM Report

...and maximus, you bet your ass I listen to what C.O.'s have to say.
I also listen to what my nephew, a biologist employed by the MNR, has to say.
It's called listening and learning.
I'm even reading what you have to say.
K FINLAYSON 4/16/2014 5:45:07 PM Report

Wolf tags eliminated most small game hunters taking them. Bear hunting pressure was reduced with the cancellation of the spring hunt,,,,definite effect on population of moose and deer as well.
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 5:49:57 PM Report

It could be the bozo comment or the thick scull comment. Regardless, I will answer your question. Yes the scientific method can include statistical analysis as 1 of the many techniques at its disposal. Do you forget I also mention pollution, habitat loss…… as other possibilities? Again these can be looked at using the scientific method. One of the most important aspects of the scientific method is objectivity. Scientists come up with a multitude of ways to approach a problem objectively. Unfortunately I do not have the time to train you in the scientific method. Nor do I believe this is the appropriate venue to get your scientific training. If science interests you, there are many programs, classes, books available to you. Good luck!
coy 4/16/2014 5:51:26 PM Report

By purchasing an outdoors card as well as a hunting license an avid outdoorsman has contributed back to our natural resources financially for wildlife research etc. What exactly is the the contributing factor of someone taking from these resources without giving something back? Because it is their right! Give me a break
razeandcrash 4/16/2014 6:02:15 PM Report

This talk about a scientific study on the subject is laughable at best. You can't do a actual study when a group doesn't have to report anything. I have to do a report if harvest one snapping turtle. But yet First Nation people don't have to report anything. But I mean you want to argue about history and ancestral rights knock your self out give back he high powered rifles and bows. You can use the traditional weapons of your ancestors. You just need to look up tags available in wmu's near reserves compare to tags in ones that are not.
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 6:09:33 PM Report

Again, there are many possible techniques which can be used in the scientific approach. You criticism would apply to a survey. However surveys are not the only tool in the scientist’s tool belt.
Montec 125 4/16/2014 6:13:49 PM Report

@K.Findlayson

I also lived and worked in Nakina and hunted that area. The season ended on Dec. 15th. I would meet local hunters heading out for their nights carnage with rifle and spot lights as I was exiting the bush at 4:30 pm after my hunting. I worked in a commuter camp for KC and would see hunters in Jan. and Feb. loading moose into pickups shot in the moose yards. Wish I'd had a cell phone with a camera back then as some pictures would add credibility to my story and educate the non believers. I remember one fellow I worked with bragging about the number of moose he'd shot and brought back to feed the local population. Once again out of season.
razeandcrash 4/16/2014 6:16:33 PM Report

Yes let's get people to do a survey, because everybody tells the truth. Your attempt at trolling is a good one I'll give you that. Your only argument is for surveys and scientific studies, because you are well aware there are not any. Anybody even attempted to do such a study or survey would be labeled as being racist.
Sammy1099 4/16/2014 6:21:46 PM Report

I don't think Native hunters are anyworse then anybody else. If white people were allowed to hunt off season under charter protection I'm sure there would be just as many abusing the privilege. How many white people are caught poaching every year? Then you can multiply that number by ten for the ones who aren't caught.

What needs to be done is coperation between natives and the MNR to ensure species are sustainable for following generation. That is in everybody's interest no matter your skin color.
Ski-Dude 4/16/2014 6:26:09 PM Report

So obvious that some have an exposed nerve ending! Entertaining as they bring it upon themselves!

Perhaps a solid scientific way of counting moose is to go out and visit each one of them.....give each one of them a name...manage them by gps tracking. Sounds like a cheap project.
razeandcrash 4/16/2014 6:32:04 PM Report

Except white hunters are caught and fined and charged. There a lots of laws that lots of people break regularly in all areas of life that's not a good argument to allow one group of people to get away with it. That's like saying you should be able to drive without a license, because lots of people do it and don't get caught. I never said that First Nations are the only problem to the situation. There are many issues that have caused moose decline but to say a group that can kill when they want and how many they want with out being tracked does not cause any affect shows how blind you are
right wing 4/16/2014 6:43:54 PM Report

Maximus

Your attempted condescending attitude only further shows your inability to properly answer the questions.
I recognized your mention of disease and other points.
Some of them are true science in nature.
You attempted to turn this into a race issue and it did not work.
You then attempted to disregard some very valid points by using "science" in a manner that was incorrect.
This is stuck in your throat, I get that.

You have a good day now.
right wing 4/16/2014 6:48:08 PM Report

Montec

Our resident "scientist", MaximusPrimest, would tell us that this is just hearsay and your stories do not mean anything.
I for one believe what you are saying...and there is nothing racist about it.
right wing 4/16/2014 6:51:23 PM Report

Sammy1099

Again, nobody is painting with a wide brush here so your comment "native hunters are worse than anybody else" does not really apply.
What I believe most are stating is that there are native hunting rights that are there for a purpose and there are some that abuse it.
Yes the same as non-native poachers...the difference....the conviction rate!
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 7:04:44 PM Report

Right wing said it, so it must be true. Nothing to see here folks, no reason for debate. Just ask right wing.....he/she knows the answer to all your questions. And if he/she doesn't know the answer, he/she will simply consult their family member or friend who works in whatever field and they'll certainly know the answer. As a bonus he/she will call you names while telling you "the facts".
Montec 125 4/16/2014 7:04:47 PM Report

right wing

I believe some have their BS filters set a little too fine. They're usually from urban settings at a latitude further south with little to no northern work / northern travel / outdoors life skills experience other than a canoe trip as a child. They always seem to have a lot to say and worship Farley Mowat.

I'm bloody sick of the racist card.
MaximusPrime 4/16/2014 7:06:42 PM Report

I believe most of the "stories", I just don't automatically draw the conclusions you do from these "stories".
ThinkAgain 4/16/2014 7:34:21 PM Report

I love the personal attacks, such love in this community we call home.
right wing 4/16/2014 7:52:12 PM Report

Maximus, you are sinking lower as is evident by your 7:04:44 PM post.

I will certainly not make any apologies for the careers family members have embarked on.
I simply listen and learn from them.
You however made comments about folks not wanting to debate and lectured about sticking to facts...which you tried to back up by a claim to science.
...of course a dash of the "racist card" never hurts.
Yet you have done nothing but play dodge ball and then whine when you get hit.

Run along now and come back when you are ready to talk to the adults.

;)
right wing 4/16/2014 7:53:57 PM Report

...oh, and I'm a "he".
justsomeguy 4/16/2014 8:06:06 PM Report


Montec 125 4/16/2014 7:04:47

"I believe some have their BS filters set a little too fine. They're usually from urban settings at a latitude further south with little to no northern work / northern travel / outdoors life skills experience..... "

Talk about a load of hypocritical BS right there.
bugalugs 4/16/2014 8:45:33 PM Report

Okay, here it is...stop giving tags to Americans. To so called tourist lodges that bring in Americans and they are guaranteed 8 tags or 5 tags...enough. Our hunting party of 12 has applied for eight years without a tag...while other parties get them year after year or ministry employees get them...or or or....you name it! The people that do it honestly and fairly never get one! The natives need to stop as well....they are killing too many of them ...hunting with other party members giving them the meat......everyone in Canada who was born here is equal ...period! I didn't sign any treaty nor did any of my family members therefore I do not have to honour anything I wasn't a part of. Everyone needs to Work and pay taxes and apply for fishing licences and hunting like everyone is equal.... There it is!
hawkeye 4/16/2014 8:55:35 PM Report

there are several reasons for our moose herd declining. Ministry mismanegment of forestry practices such as clear cutting and leaving a 300 ft buffer around all waterways as "moose habitat" but it caused a major decline in our beaver population thru predation because if you look around 90% of the ponds all you see is evergreens.The cancellation of the spring bear hunt has not helped bears will follow a cow for days waiting for her to drop her calf, the growing wolf populations as well as cougars. Poaching buy all people call me a racist if you want but in my view ANYONE who takes an animal they do not have a licence or tag for is a poacher. it is common knowledge that you can go into certain bars in this town and buy half a moose for $450 but nothing is done about it. I have hunted for 26 yrs and have drawn one tag 24 years ago and now with further reductions I doubt I will ever draw another .
mac2 4/16/2014 10:03:42 PM Report

your govt makes the rules, and you will obey them, and you will pay the govt for doing this for you!
everyone must assimilate!
those pesky natives and their hunting!
lol
muddslinger6 4/16/2014 10:09:53 PM Report

As an avid hunter since I was about 4 yrs old...I have seen a significant drop in moose where I hunt normally...The main contributing factor the the decline in moose population where I hunt was directly related to natives harvesting multiple moose per year and not just in season...all year long...I not only hunt in this area but camp/fish from May long weekend till mid November. As the moose population dropped so did the number of native hunters in the area...they killed/chased them away...when a specific group of native hunters (wont name drop) take 15-30 moose per year..there is only one logical outcome...as a child I remember getting 1 bull or cow and maybe a calf per season in a group of usually 5-7 that hunted together..I cant remember the last time I shot a moose as there are barely any left in that area...

I'm sure someone is gonna bitch about this being racist but guess what..I'M NATIVE...I do not agree at all with NATIVE right being able to harvest all/any animal you want...
mac2 4/16/2014 10:17:48 PM Report

the article is talking about all of ontario, not just around here, weird that it has no mention of the native hunting or its effects in the article though. they should hire some of the peanut gallery to help them with their studies, lol.
mac2 4/16/2014 10:19:55 PM Report

northeastern and northwestern ontario are the areas most effected.
mac2 4/16/2014 10:32:39 PM Report

"they" care about "our" resources, lol
towsor 4/16/2014 10:43:16 PM Report

4 wheelers, atv's, side by sides, the true death to the partridge, moose, creek fish population....matter who is driving them.
Technology vs nature.
dandrew61 4/16/2014 10:52:03 PM Report

It seems most people have forgotten the tragic helicopter crash in 2003 that claimed the lives of 4 local MNR employees. This crash took place while conducting an annual moose survey. As a trapper and outdoorsman since the late 70’s I was fortunate to have met Walter Ceolin and Chantelle Walkey on many occasions and can attest the MNR lost some very fine, dedicated people with that crash. To the best of my knowledge they have not used aerial surveys since.
One of the methods the MNR use to count moose is by moose survey areas. These are areas that are restricted to hunting. You cannot possess a firearm in these areas during moose season and NO ONE is supposed to hunt moose in these areas. They’re not big, maybe 2 square miles and a couple of areas for each Wildlife Management Area, but the MNR counts moose in these areas then extrapolates the count to give a good estimate of the entire WMU. They are clearly posted with bright orange signs. There is no mistaking the posted area.
I trapped by Chapleau for over 10 years and once came across 2 men field dressing a young bull moose in one of these survey areas while I was 4wheeling with some friends. I took photos of the men standing over the carcass and directly under one of the signs, the carcass and sign both visible in the photo. I took another photo of the head of the bull next to their truck. This photo clearly showed the vehicle license plate. With six witnesses willing to testify I submitted the photos and our names to the MNR office in Wawa and when I hadn’t heard anything in over two weeks I called them back to enquire. The CO I talked to said he couldn’t do anything about it. He ran the plate number and it belonged to a native. The natives from Chapleau hunt this area because they know it has moose and nobody else can hunt there.
A couple years later I followed a truck with two native men from Garden River leaving this same moose survey area with half a cow moose. They shot a cow moose, took the back half and left the front to rot in the bush. I bypassed the local MNR offices this time and submitted the photos to the standing Minister of Natural Resources at the time, Donna Cransfield as I had been having several correspondences with her about the moose draw. She never replied t that one and was later replaced as Minister.
I give two examples of blatant poaching and wasting and they both pertain to natives hunting moose. If someone like MaximusPrime feels I should be labeled a racist because of this, so be it. Facts are as they are and I do have photos and witnesses. Problem is I just don’t have a government willing to do anything about it.
Remember, when the moose are gone they’re gone for everyone, natives included.
mac2 4/16/2014 11:01:24 PM Report

it's a conspiracy, your govt is in with the natives taking all the moose for themselves! i dont know how the natives lived in harmony with nature including moose before all the smart people came along, friggen natives and governments!
mac2 4/16/2014 11:31:57 PM Report

now if only there was a way to pin the brown bleachy water on the natives, wait, i have evidence and pics of one of them urinating in the well! but my govt wont do anything about it! lol
mac2 4/16/2014 11:34:05 PM Report

sorry, i couldnt resist, just poking fun, lol.
Sammy1099 4/17/2014 6:17:04 AM Report

Natives used to drive whole herds of game off cliffs and take only what they could carry, leaving the rest to rot. The idea that natives were living in harmony with nature is BS. The only reason they didn’t wipe out most of the game is because they lacked both the population and technology to do it. I do remember an MNR who published a report on declining game and a correlation between proximity to reserves, this made a stink. I believe the individual responsible for the study was fired. Don’t let science get in the way of Political Correctness. The matter of who was here first and what that entitles the first people here is still debatable.

If they are pissing in the water it wouldn’t be overly bright considering they also get the water. I think it’s one of the many free or subsidized services the city provides for them.

No I’m not racist see my first post. I’m sure if you put separate rules up that favour anyone people you would have people abusing favouritism no matter what your skin color is. I blame the government for creating a double standard and lacking the spine to do anything.

I stand by my first post both sides need to cooperate it’s in no ones interest if game keeps declining.
WTF2 4/17/2014 7:24:30 AM Report

As usual, the ministry is full of Sh..!!! My camp is in area 36 and I counted nine moose last year without even trying! And as usual, the local natives showed up to clean them out in the fall. Enough of this BS!! Give the white man a tag!! He lives here too!! And pays taxes!!!
mac2 4/17/2014 7:38:29 AM Report

by the sounds of it, i dont know how the moose survived up to this point, nevermind, the moose should of been wiped out before colonialism the way those savages act. haha
suckerminnows 4/17/2014 8:29:16 AM Report

if i was a moose i run to the moon to get away from all you comentators
Ohwow 4/17/2014 8:31:40 AM Report

Nobody has mentioned (I don't believe) the possibility and the option of not allowing the hunting of moose calf. I'm not quite sure where I would stand on that decision, being a hunter, however, I am just stating it is another possible option which I know has been considered.
Thoughts anybody??
gowestyoungman 4/17/2014 9:08:20 AM Report

"The survey showed notable decreases in Dryden, Thunder Bay and Fort Frances districts."

I'll just leave this here.


If you don't know where this is, go look it up. Maximus, you wanted proof....here you go.

I am from there....and the spring moose hunting that goes on is a big contributor to declining population. Also, so is the MASSIVE amount of snow this year, however that amount of snow is rare....the spring hunting is not.
rebel469 4/17/2014 9:55:06 AM Report

Moose population down, here's why.

The government issues calf tags to every hunter, there goes your next year moose. Manitoba issues an adult bull tag to every hunter, and you have to apply for a cow or calf. That province's numbers have increased in moose population.

There are too many bear and wolves, time for a full spring bear hunt for residents and non residents. Bears are very hungry in the spring and a new born calf is just too easy. Also time to eliminate the extra tag you need to purchase to hunt a wolf, just keep them part of the small game. I have encountered wolves while hunting the last 3 years in a row.

And finally the natives. They have the right and I agree but not to the point of wiping out an area of everything that walks or swims. Time for mandatory reporting of animals harvested, limits to a household and stop the illegal activities to getting those animals and fish. Not saying all natives do it, but enough to make this mentioned.

We are all equal, if you want a future in hunting for moose, etc. it's time we change everything. This just isn't working.
WTF2 4/17/2014 11:10:37 AM Report

It has come to the point, in area 36, where all conservation efforts, and all money collected from licenses and Outdoors cards are going towards sustaining the moose herd for the local Indians. It is a shame that native Canadians that are paying for these conservation efforts with their licenses, are not allowed to hunt an adult because they have a different father than the guy down the street. And they should really feel blessed if they should be lucky enough to beat the bears, wolves and the Indians to a calf moose. The answer is probably to quit buying a license and let the natives pay for their own damn moose!
westofthesoo 4/17/2014 11:15:17 AM Report

I live in manitoba on a reserve called Wanipigow. I went up with conservation and did an area survey for moose. the area we covered was 5km by 3 km ( Rainy Lake MB. we counted 52 moose,35 cows,10 bullsand 12 yearlings. I also shot 3 wolves and let conservation do a study to see what they have been eating. Moose ! there main diet, was what we found. Sure there was finger pointing who what and why but we elected to was educate why the need to be selective when it comes time to harvesting for your family. reason why moose count low weather,preditors, brain disease,poaching and poor conservation habits.
dragonfly7 4/17/2014 10:27:26 PM Report

Hey mudslinger.Just wanted to give you kudos for you're post.It took a lot of guts to say what you did.I agree with what you said.I have a friend who is indian as well,says the same why should natives be treated differently???Who cares who was here first?... we're all "Canadian" aren't we?That's why there will ALWAYS be animosity.Same laws,hunting and fishing rights,taxation etc.It's just b.s.He refuses to use a status card and follows the rules and regulations like everyone else!!!...that's one good indian in my opinion and it's not racist!Anyway good stuff mudslinger.Canada needs more people like you
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