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Orazietti responds to allegations of MNR wrongdoing

Tuesday, February 25, 2014   by: Staff


I am pleased to provide a response to the letter released by Mike Boudreau, President of OntORA.

To be clear, my priority with respect to crown land access is that the Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) ensures the greatest possible access to crown land for the enjoyment and use by all Ontarians.
Current and former Ontario government employees are governed by conflict of interest rules, which require declarations of any activities that are deemed to be in potential conflict with their duties as public servants.
If a current MNR employee wishes to obtain a right, title or interest in Crown land, section 39 of the Public Lands Act requires that this employee obtain Lieutenant Governor in Council (LGIC) approval.
MNR has a policy—public lands directive 4.11.06 Disposition of Crown Land to Ministry Employees—which clarifies when MNR employees need to declare potential conflict of interest issues or when they need LGIC approval.
While section 39 of the Public Lands Act only applies to current MNR employees, both current and former public servants are required to notify the ethics executive if they engage in an activity that may result in an actual or potential conflict of interest under the Public Service of Ontario Act, 2006.
Current and former employees must fill out the Conflict of Interest Declaration Form, and must not proceed with the activity until a ruling is made.
The Public Service of Ontario Act, 2006 (PSOA) requires Ontario Public Service employees to declare potential situations of conflict of interest to their Ministry ethics executive. 
Prior to 2006, conflicts of interest were governed under the Public Service Act, which first took effect in 1913.
These requirements are in place to create a level playing field and ensure that ministry employees do not receive any preferential treatment, or benefit from special knowledge, by virtue of their employment with MNR.
In 2008 the Ombudsman’s office reviewed this issue and investigated a complaint that some MNR employees owned or had interests in tourism-related businesses.
“After one of our investigators reviewed the complaint and obtained clarifying information from the ministry, we determined there was no basis on which to pursue the complaint further,” said Ombudsman spokesperson Linda Williamson.
I encourage anyone who has a concern to come forward with evidence and submit it to my office, as well as to the Office of the Ombudsman.

David Orazietti
Minister of Natural Resources
Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Ski-Dude 2/25/2014 4:53:52 PM Report

I'm sure D.O. will be provided with some documentation now.
busher 2/25/2014 5:04:46 PM Report

This was EXACTLY the same response I received from "flashbulb" Dave when I reported to him as my council person about the private use and abuse of city vehicles by city employees who use them for their and their family's personal transportation on our dime.
The city has a POLICY about this and I have DONE MY JOB.
It's called being an "Ostrich with his head in the sand"
steelworker 2/25/2014 5:12:59 PM Report

This message was approved by the Committee to Elect Katey Wynne.
soowat 2/25/2014 5:24:50 PM Report

As the old saying goes "Where there's smoke..."
Gurpy 2/25/2014 5:26:18 PM Report

I remember walking into Davis O`s office a few years ago with a very serious matter. I was told by some fat guy that they did not care! It is true! All of the Liberals do NOT care! Take a good look at the condition of this province! They lost my respect and any trust I ever had in them that very day!
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 5:29:44 PM Report

David Orazietti Over and over again we see scandal after scandal by the LIBERALS which you are part of. When will Ontario get a chance to vote you and the Liberals out of office once and for all? David Orazietti, Ontario is tired of high costs of electricity, High cost of insurance. We the taxpayers in the North do not want to pay for the transit infrastructure in Toronto. Let Toronto pay for there own transit system. We are tired of the lies from Toronto on issues like Samsung. We are so fed up of waste like the BILLION dollar gas plant cancelation that we the taxpayer has to pay for. We are sick of scandals like Hydro one literally screwing the customers. How can you David Orazietti be part of a corrupt government and then tell us here in Sault Ste Marie that the Fiberal ,woops I mean Liberal government are doing everything in my best interests? Do you have a no morals Mr David Orazietti? As long as you are a part of it you become like them CORRUPT. The scandals I have listed are the Liberal legacy. A legacy of high costs to electricity. I really hope you read this. You and your party need to own it and be held accountable. Thru criminal action.
Hamguy 2/25/2014 5:30:57 PM Report

Maybe it's time to call in "The Fifth Estate " or " W5 ". This story may prove interesting before it's over.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 5:36:05 PM Report

Yes David,
We are tired of freezing our asses off because of your buddy dear old Dalton! Tired of the Liberals ignoring the people of this province and this city! We are all people regardless to our income, level of education, nationality or beliefs. You David do not treat us as such!
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 5:37:49 PM Report

And the practice of diverting excess power from Ontario to USA and Quebec. But what really bothers me about this is not the diverting power. But PAYING,I repeat PAYING them to take our execess power. Meanwhile you and I have to pay out our rear ends for power and your giving another country and provinces free power and giving them money to take it. David Orazietti you can not justify this.
Lone24 2/25/2014 5:38:39 PM Report

Orio another idiot.
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 5:39:41 PM Report

Election time YOU and your criminal buddys will feel the wrath of the Ontario voter
Gurpy 2/25/2014 5:46:29 PM Report

One more thing David O,
Your spoken words stuck to my heart! When you blamed MY son for the actions of a government worker, YOU BROKE MY SPIRIT! YOU DESTROYED MY HEART AS A MOTHER! YOU CAUSED ME TO VIEW GOVERNMENT IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LIGHT. I will never forget the callousness I was treated with by you and the Liberal party! You know who I am! I sent a letter to Elections Canada requesting my name be removed from the voters list and I listed my reasons! You and the Liberal party were the reason! Shame on you.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 5:48:12 PM Report

Thank you! I`m 100% sure W5 would love to hear my story!
Dictionary 2/25/2014 5:51:38 PM Report

So Dave, do any MNR employees own any remote tourist operations within any areas of MNR limited access?
dust2 2/25/2014 5:56:37 PM Report

"But what really bothers me about this is not the diverting power. But PAYING,I repeat PAYING them to take our execess power. Meanwhile you and I have to pay out our rear ends for power and your giving another country and provinces free power and giving them money to take it"

It's a surplus, we can't use it anyways so it's cheaper to pay the US to take it than deal with it ourselves (this also only happens when there is a surplus, which can be rare).

Half the reason this happens is because of the coal plants, which they're trying to replace but are having issues because idiots think wind farms are somehow damaging to us and the earth. When something clean and smart comes along, the dumb dirty residences scream no all day long.

Basically, learn about power instead of being ignorant to it. There's a lot to learn, you're a perfect example of that.
Lone24 2/25/2014 6:03:24 PM Report

Go for it Gurpy I'm really interested in seeing this happen. All the power to ya.
mosquito123 2/25/2014 6:04:42 PM Report

If everything is and has been above board as you state Mr Minister, why are you not calling for a public inquiry yourself to put an end to this once and for all.

Think of all the support you would get if the public inquiry cleared the MNR.

My guess is you know a public inquiry will find all MNR's dirt and show us those little secrets and expose them for all to see.

Do the right thing here and hold a public inquiry.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 6:13:27 PM Report

He will not get any public support! The damage is done! Doesn`t really matter what he does!
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 6:14:52 PM Report

DUST2 You can not justify raising electric rates sky high and then pay some country to take excess power. If it is in excess DROP PRICE OF ELECTRICITY. VERY SIMPLE. That story just does not justify the price of electricity.
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 6:16:58 PM Report

Dust2 quit drinking the liberal kool aide
dust2 2/25/2014 6:31:02 PM Report


yes you can justify it. it's called cost vs cost. It costs us to keep excess energy. It costs us to transport excess energy. The cost of transporting it is cheaper than the cost of keeping it.

If it's in excess, drop the price?

Remember when I said go learn about power? Do it, you clearly understand nothing about power management on a large scale. Literally nothing.

The cost is going up because we're adopting greener energy that doesn't kill the planet or us. Like phasing out coal and adding wind farms. The price will increase temporarily, but it gives us very clean and safe energy, keeping the planet alive. I rather pay more now than save money and have no idea if the next two generations will have a habitable planet to live on.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 6:36:58 PM Report

The next generation will not be able to afford power! Nor will the one after that!
KDawg 2/25/2014 6:39:00 PM Report

Typical liberal politician. Mr. Boudreau brings forth some serious concerns and all Orazietti can do is provide policy statements.

An election can't come soon enough.
cliff76 2/25/2014 6:41:59 PM Report

Looking forward in seeing this on W5!
dust2 2/25/2014 6:42:14 PM Report

"serious concerns"


so serious that he doesn't even say what's going on, other than the land being used for private reasons.

so serious that it didn't even warrant any further investigation from being handed the 'evidence'

this is a small issue that's trying to be blown up so people can get their political attacks in.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 6:44:47 PM Report

Are you related to David O? You`re rather protective of him. How come?
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/25/2014 6:48:44 PM Report

lol @ dust

"so serious that it didn't even warrant any further investigation from being handed the 'evidence' "'t investigating gov't and not finding any fault or reason to investigate further. About the same way every police investigation goes when an officer is accused of wrongdoing.

**Just because they say it didn't warrant further investigation does not make it so**

And since you seem to be the in house energy expert, if we can't build the infrastructure to store any meaningful capacity of power that the windmills generate (since they are frequently not generating, even though power is always being consumed, obviously) how is it that we shut down all the coal plants without any major issues?
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/25/2014 6:53:10 PM Report

Way too many people still playing the red team v blue team game. The Olympics are over guys! There is not one political party in this country that comes remotely close to representing your best interests.

Why do you desire someone to govern you?
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 7:13:13 PM Report

Gurpy I now give up on Dust2. We all know how crippling to Ontario energy policies are having on Ontario economy. We see all over Ontario closure after closure due to the high cost of electrical power. We live in North America. We should have an over abundance of CHEAP POWER, that will grow and sustain an economy. Stupidity of the Suzuki Gore tofu nut eating groupies can not be reasoned with. My only concern and as is the concern of a majority of people in Ontario, is the state of the economy. JOBs PRIVATE SECTOR JOBs I might add is what is needed. The cost of power we have seen already (Cliffs) determines whether mining,forestry and manufacturing will not set up shop in an economy that has high energy costs.
And Dust2 I guess your ok with us northerners paying for Toronto's transit infrastructure too right? If you say yes your definatly either related to David O or work for him.
wave 2/25/2014 7:24:30 PM Report

Dear Mr. Orazietti,

You need a staff of personnel to respond to any issues or questions that may come your way. Simply put - no nonsense - just the truth - you are selling out! You are not standing up for what is right. That's it! End of discussion - no other way to put it. If you were on the opposition....I wonder what you would say. What will you tell your grandchildren when they wonder what happened? That's it - no name calling, nothing but the simple truth!
gr84u 2/25/2014 7:25:45 PM Report

Don't waste your breath on "dust", the vacume in his head is creating a "dust" cloud which is distorting his view!
Gurpy 2/25/2014 7:28:47 PM Report

Dust is okay. I do think he may be a relative of David O or you may have hit the nail on the head when you asked if he worked for him! Anything is possible!
I do agree with your comments regarding energy! I`m appalled at the current situation, as I`ve noticed you are! What is the next step? Where do we go from here? Best thing to do is contact W5 and let them get to the bottom of this! Surprised it hasn`t already happened!
............... 2/25/2014 7:41:23 PM Report

I was duped by the MNR of moose tags when I purchased my business in Wawa and thrown to the wolves by Mr. Orazietti, he never took me seriously and ombudsman found wrong wording and changed the ontariomoosebeartourism industry program. But I have to pay the price. Mr Orazietti and Mnr. Thank You, I invite W5 to call me, I feel ripped off by our own representation, ps I worked for Mr ORAZIETTI and previously supported him years ago.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 7:45:37 PM Report

scottstewy123 2/25/2014 7:55:06 PM Report

wow the dirt is getting higher
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 7:57:18 PM Report

HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/25/2014 8:01:14 PM Report

scottstewy....where does your belief that North Americans (I guess just for residing in NA?) are entitled to cheap power forever and ever come from, exactly?

We live on a finite planet with finite resources (unfortunately, for some). Cheap oil is gone; it is not coming back. After you pass the high school math course explaining exponential equations you should rejoin this discussion - you MIGHT have something worthwhile to contribute at that point.

How is it you put a billionaire career politician like Al Gore alongside the great David Suzuki?!? They have nothing in common, as far as I can tell.

You talk about private sector jobs as if you know something about them - is this true? Toronto contributes to this province's GDP many times over what little ol' SSM does and same goes for their taxes. I think if you crunched the numbers you'd find they contribute a lot more of their wealth to us than vice versa.

wave 2/25/2014 8:01:50 PM Report

When all is said and done, and taken away, and sold ...... then What? Do we feed our children we hunt dust?????? Come on people,,,, it's not a light at the end of the tunnel, JUMP, it's a freaking TRAIN!
frnlak 2/25/2014 8:02:11 PM Report

OK The Liberals are out next election and Dave becomes our new mayor but lets get back to the point.
The fact is that the MNR are systematicaly berming, digging ditches, pulling bridges and generally blocking forest roads to keep the general population of Ontarians from accessing crown lands for reasons only they know. All you have to do is go outside the city. Mile 38 road, Whitman Dam Road, Laughing Lake Road, off chutes on the Ranger Lake Road are prime examples made unaccessable under Liberal direction. There are several others in other areas of the province. Mike Boudreau and Tom Brason know of many more I am sure. The roads are blocked off so the high paying American tourist won't see Joe Blow Ontario fishing in the same lake that he paid taxes to stock. Plain and simple. This not only affects hunters and fishers but hikers, berry pickers and the like. The question of how many retired and active MNR employees own remote tourist lodges has been presented to the minister on several occasions with no meaningfull response. If everything in the MNR's realm is above board, then I see no reason why the Honourable Minister balks at the mention of an independant enquiry into this issue.

Stick to the subject and stick your windmills where the sun don't shine.
Please excuse my spelling mistakes
frnlak 2/25/2014 8:09:39 PM Report

Mr Logic

David Suzuki and Al Gore do indeed have something in common.
They both create a huge carbon footprint everywhere they go or even open their mouths.
jesse08 2/25/2014 8:17:26 PM Report

Maybe dust2 isnt a relative or employee of dave O. Maybe dust2 IS dave O.
Javaman 2/25/2014 8:32:03 PM Report

I get so tired of our elected reps towing the party line. It is like they do not have a thought of their own. What is the point of having locally elected reps if they are muzzled by "head office" ?? I want someone who is here to represent the interests of sooites...not the premier or PM.
northerngentleman 2/25/2014 8:34:04 PM Report

Don't forget what the NDP did to us under Bob Rae or the Conservatives did to us under Mike Harris. They all screw us one way or the other. What is the worse of the 3 evils? I don't trust Hudak & I don't no about Horwath. At least with a minority it will take two parties to pass anything major

HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/25/2014 8:35:04 PM Report

@ Javaman then you're looking for a political party and rep that currently does not exist.

frnlak, I doubt you'd even know what a carbon footprint is without Dr. Suzuki.

He sure does seem like a hypocrite, though, asking others to reduce their carbon footprints when his is hundreds of times what he says it should be, a fact he's brought up repeatedly over the years and I believe he's taken action to correct (to a degree) but when someone is offering him $100,000 to come speak for a few hours he probably starts thinking of the green tech R&D or scholarships or whatever he can do with it and probably figures that trumps his hypocrisy...but who knows.
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 8:36:20 PM Report

jesse08 wow you may have hit the nail on the head there.
mjr 2/25/2014 8:48:32 PM Report

I just heard a senior couple tell a story of them setting up camp by a lake they have fished for forty years situated on crown land,when they were approached by the MNR and told to break camp because an outfitter had american bear hunters coming in and needed their site.
Gurpy 2/25/2014 9:23:00 PM Report

jesse08 & scottstweey
gr84u 2/25/2014 9:33:24 PM Report

Here is a better idea Dave O. How about you take a break from the cameras. Use our Governments resources and provide all Sault residents, in a timely manner, with a complete list of all current and former MNR and relatives that own or have owned crown land in Ontario for lets say the last 54 years. If you are diligent, unbias and follow this through regardless of the outcome and ramifications, then maybe we the voters will let you keep your job. Maybe not!
Gurpy 2/25/2014 9:37:51 PM Report

gr84u 2/25/2014 9:43:15 PM Report

@ mjr

I would have told the MNR to take a flying f$$$k and refuse to move, then call as many news stations as possible and the OPP.
iamtc 2/25/2014 10:57:48 PM Report

You people are a joke Dave rules he is on honest person doing a great job for oops forget that Dave is a clown
Moonshiner 2/26/2014 6:01:17 AM Report

Want to screw up the mnr? do not renew your Outdoors card !Electricity can not be stored,during periods of high demand we get charged more,simple...charge us less when there is surplus.SSM had the cheapest power in Ontario pregrid unification due to hydro-electric generation.Our resources no longer belong to the people,but the corporations.They do not give fuel away . Look at the price of diesel fuel,everything comes here by truck ,so we all pay more for goods.That is causing rapid inflation,but the government produces statistics to tell us its not so!...or we might want a raise.the bilderburg group has determined that the sheep still have too much hair so the next thing is to cause the increase of mortgage rates!The spin campaign has already started.
GrampaF 2/26/2014 7:11:47 AM Report

"the Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) ensures the greatest possible access to crown land for the enjoyment and use by all Ontarians."
dust2 2/26/2014 7:20:33 AM Report

>"And Dust2 I guess your ok with us northerners paying for Toronto's transit infrastructure too right? If you say yes your definatly either related to David O or work for him."

LOL, I guess it can ONLY be one of those two options, I mean it's not like I could be someone that isn't a selfish dummy who doesn't act like a child, right?

I am okay with us paying for their transit infrastructure, you know why? because they help us in return, their funding goes up here just like ours goes down here

I'm also not stupid enough to believe that our money should only be our money, if you want to be a greedy loser then enjoy the shame, but that kind of attitude doesn't work in economics. Their population is over 10 million, just looking at tax payers it's at least 10x what we have.


honestly that's how dumb it is right now with some of these comments on here.
rcssm69 2/26/2014 8:31:39 AM Report

I, for one, want to hear Gurpy's story!!! I'm on pins and needles!!! Better be a good one too so that I won't be disappointed!!! Come'on Gurpy!!!
...and NO, I don't work for the MNR!!!
right wing 2/26/2014 8:32:35 AM Report

So far all I have read it allegations and stories.
I am not saying they are not true but...
You need to have proof.
Put your evidence together and then approach the news media, if this is the scandal that some are alleging the media will jump all over it...but you have to prove your allegations.
An editorial letter full of accusations is not proof...names, transactions, documentation, dates, photo's, that's proof.
dust2 2/26/2014 8:44:40 AM Report

^ word
m_grb 2/26/2014 9:08:41 AM Report

How much does a public inquiry cost? If the government jumped every time someone asked for a public inquiry it would be ridiculous. Let an ombudsman take care of it, that's their job. If W5 or whoever doesn't pick it up for investigation it probably isn't worth much.
m_grb 2/26/2014 9:10:56 AM Report

And, I am a hunter and fisherman and very much dislike the road closures that have blocked me from accessing my 'spots'. I'd love to see them all open.
spike5 2/26/2014 9:19:32 AM Report

We have a Northern Ontario Ministry head that continues to feed us Southern Ontario politics concerning our land and the supposed freedom to use it. I see nothing in the legislature that will ever change that attitude and that's why we should pursue our own governing body with representation by qualified persons who can relate to our situations here in the north. I understand it is probably just a pipe dream here but wouldn't it be nice if we could decide our own future with people who care about the North. Northern Ontario for Northerners.
scottstewy123 2/26/2014 9:37:13 AM Report

Dust2 Your logic that we have to support Toronto because we are all in it together is absolute BOULDERDASH. They have there own tax base. They can afford there own transit. Dust I am convinced you are David O. Because you sure spout the LIBERAL PARTY PROPOGANDA. Sorry your arguments are greatly flawed. Do not worry once an election is called David O and the wicked witch of the south will be no more.
mr.monty 2/26/2014 9:45:43 AM Report

years ago the gov brought in a new law that stated any land owned by non Canadians had to sell to Canadians first. a friend of mine wanted to buy 1500 acres by montreal river. the real estate agent would not allow him to bid on the land. his son works for estina corp. who got the land. when the deal was done the first thing they did was block access to hunters and fishermen, this is the same group that owns large tracts from heyden to montreal river. now to do with electricity. a few years ago they spent millions of dollars to revamp the coal generating plants in Windsor. bag houses, precipitators and other pollution control measures. thus clean burning. now they want to shut them down. guess what, they are still running! also you can't make elec. unless someone is using it.
dust2 2/26/2014 9:48:29 AM Report

we support toronto and toronto supports us

jesus is it that hard to understand? screw me for trying to live in harmony right? why help everyone when we can be an ignorant redneck like you and just be selfish, for no reason at all. if you understood the money southern ontario generates and the tax payer base, you'd think twice about supporting stupid ideas like cutting off funding. yeah let's just ignore over 5 million tax payers, clearly that means nothing to us right? LOL get a clue
scottstewy123 2/26/2014 10:03:21 AM Report

Your funny Dust2. Call me a Red Neck. Thanks that is a compliment. Go back to Toronto
Thim 2/26/2014 10:03:23 AM Report

m_grb the Ombudsman has no one with a legal background to handle this, they admitted to this over the phone in 2007.
Whether or not they did have any legal background any such credible evidence of wrongdoing isn't theirs to be judge and jury over, they have a legal mandate to hand it over to the proper authorities...

The Ombudsman took the MNR for their word that "right, title or interest" only applies to the purchase of estates and nothing less than estates such as land use permits, aka leases for commercial use, thus it is OK for ministry staff to dole out public lands they are responsible for administering over themselves for financial gain.
This internal directive here (copy & paste)... ...

the Minister refers to is a Policy that appears to be altered and this nonsense about "right, title or interest not applying to Land use permits has been debunked, we found a half dozen related Policies that directly state that right or interest does indeed apply to LUPs.

Please read this MNR manual very closely, particularly pages 12 to 19

... ...

see page 18, left hand column where the MNR says to lie to the public about the real reason, here's a direct quote... "Education and communication efforts to explain that the purpose of the access control is to protect natural resources can assist with achieving public acceptance".

dust2 2/26/2014 10:13:09 AM Report

how is redneck a compliment? LOL wow. so dumb they don't even realize it hahahaha
T-pot 2/26/2014 10:25:08 AM Report

^ 90% of comments above this post are living proof you can't educated the ignorant. Everything has to be a conspiracy. Hide your wife and kids the government has an agenda!
Wobbler 2/26/2014 10:27:30 AM Report

David Orazietti: You need to start remembering where you come from and who elected you to this "position"!!! The good citizens of Sault Ste. Marie in Northern Ontario have been blindsided by you with your loyalties that are now in Southern Ontario!!
Honorable Member of Parliament (Sault Ste. Marie)? Where has the "honor" part of your title gone? It would be nice if you started honoring your commitment to the people who got you where you are today. Start working for Northern Ontario where we have a distinct society completely opposite of our southern counterparts.
There are reasons that Ontario is divided into two parts; the biggest being that Southern Ontario is more densely populated, where Northern Ontario has dense forests, an abundance of water and many other natural resources that provide recreation, food and a means of making a living for some.
Your MNR website states that: "If you're a hiker, camper, bird-watcher, angler or hunter, Ontario's natural resources provide a wealth of opportunities for activities of all kinds." You should be "honoring" this, but instead you have cow towed down and let Southern Ontario selfishly and ignorantly ride roughshod over our lands and forests. Time to GET BACK TO BASICS DAVID O.!!!!!!

And to those of you who choose not to vote or have your name taken off of the voter's list............every "non-vote" in an election is a vote for the party you don't want to be in power.
doggs 2/26/2014 10:32:10 AM Report

More Bullsh-- for Dave Orazietti ...He is so full of it ..wait until the next election ..Dave ..Bye Bye
m_grb 2/26/2014 10:43:57 AM Report

Sorry THim, I tried both links you posted and they didn't work. I searched the MNR site and can't find those documents.
I am not disagreeing with you, this has been a piss off to me also for 9 years when they first blocked me from hunting a prime road (no vehicle access but you could walk it). An outfitter has a camp up the road and so they don't want joe public to be able to drive up there. It would take away from the business. I just don't think you would ever get a public inquiry into this. There has to be a more realistic way to flush this out and cause change.
blue diamond 2/26/2014 10:51:15 AM Report

I wonder how the teachers will take to David O. when he has to return to teaching? He did sell them down the river. Though I assume he will have a pretty good pension from the government and his teacher pension, which he pays part of!

He does not care at a local level, David O. just toes the party line. Just does not care about what we think! He just throws some money our way, remember this would happen no matter what party was in power. They all throw us the proverbial cookie to make us happy and them look good!
scottstewy123 2/26/2014 10:53:25 AM Report

HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 11:54:12 AM Report

@Wobbler "And to those of you who choose not to vote or have your name taken off of the voter's list............every "non-vote" in an election is a vote for the party you don't want to be in power."

It's almost as if you're observant enough to realize that they're all sell outs, that they all got where they are by lying and stealing, that they're all puppets for larger forces than you or I or the vast majority of Canadians...but you want me to knowingly support an evil, believing it to be less bad than voting for some greater evil. Moral relativism just ain't my bag, baby.

The voter who is chronically addicted to the lesser of evils is like a man in debt who borrows to pay it off. Each time he borrows, the debt gets bigger. He says, “I know this is crazy, but what else can I do? Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul is the lesser of two evils. If I don’t do it, I’m sunk. I promise I’ll straighten this mess out—but not right now. I have a payment coming due. I have to borrow again.
dust2 2/26/2014 12:07:32 PM Report

yeah that comment was pretty ridiculous. if I don't vote, my vote goes to the party I didn't want to win? If I didn't vote, I didn't want anyone to win. So a vote was made out of thin air?

just mind blowing how stupid some comments can be
Thim 2/26/2014 12:16:28 PM Report

m_grb ...
google PL 4.11.06 or Policy Disposition of Crown Land to a Ministry Employee PL 4.11.06

And google... "Management Guidelines for Forestry and Resource-Based Tourism"
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 12:20:11 PM Report

Well I understand where he/she is coming from as it's actually a pretty widely held sentiment that just won't die.

If a party needs 51% for a majority and corrupt Party A has 50.9% of the vote and corrupt Party B has 49.1% of the vote and Wobbler's is the last and deciding vote that could give a majority to corrupt Party A but feels, for whatever reason that corrupt Party B is less corrupt than that is the vote the make, they say.

This is a thought experiment since in reality such a situation is virtually I'm not going to vote for corruption to make you feel better about your choice to knowingly vote for corruption. Thanks, but no thanks.
Moonshiner 2/26/2014 12:54:04 PM Report

Heres something to chew over...nobody feels good about paying an outfitter for a fly-in fishing trip after they discover a motorhome and 6 other campers at the same lake.Roads are closed to limit travel for many reasons. Areas are sometimes repeatedly abused and littered with smashed beer bottles and garbage.If they can not catch the people ...the ruins it for the many.Secondly,vast areas of Crown land are held by cutting rights to logging firms ,they build the roads and sometimes make them impassable when their done for the season.If it was not for the loggers there would be no roads.Some areas have open mine workings that present hazards and are blocked.Also there is the ever present fire risk to managed and replanted areas.Only the loggers keep roads open,and only when using them.Roads are gated to keep people out of private property.I know of conservation areas that are posted NO FISHING .
Thim 2/26/2014 3:10:35 PM Report

Try these links out.Pages 12 to 19 are very interesting, the MNR describes how to prevent legal public access, page 18 they offer leases to outfitters for strategic points on roads and on the same page say to blame it on the protection of our natural resources

This one will show you how the MNR can't legally restrict access to lakes on which Crown Lands border

Bad Dawg 2/26/2014 5:17:02 PM Report

My suggestion is to video tape every interaction with any MNR!! Or any signs of corruption!!

Davey wants evidence, then he will get some
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