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What belongs in our parks? What doesn't? Time to speak up

Wednesday, February 26, 2014   by: SooToday.com Staff

NEWS RELEASE

CITY OF SAULT STE MARIE

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The City of Sault Ste. Marie is looking for your input

The City of Sault Ste. Marie is in the process of updating its Parks and Recreation Master Strategy Plan for the Corporation of the City of Sault Ste. Marie.

Citizens in our community have a diverse wealth of knowledge – your input will assist us in identifying the needs and priorities related to municipal recreation, parks, facilities and leisure services, over the next 5 to 10 years.

Have your say at our Community Open House:

Tuesday, March 4 in the Russ Ramsay Board Room – Civic Centre – 99 Foster Drive.

5:30 p.m. Overview – Parks and Recreation Master Plan 6-7:30 p.m. Community Open House

Complete our online survey at www.cityssm.on.ca – City Hall – Surveys or email your comments to parks&recfeedback@cityssm.on.ca.

For more information, contact the Community Services Department at 705-759-5310.

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Comments
70
Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Beej 2/26/2014 9:59:52 AM Report

A good start would be no grotto in Bellevue park.
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 10:19:20 AM Report

Yeah, I can't believe grottos are even legal anywhere; clearly evil and the work of the devil.
Ski-Dude 2/26/2014 10:27:20 AM Report

Grass, just grass, a big field of grass (synthetic hypoallergenic grass). No trees. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally walk into a tree.
doggs 2/26/2014 10:27:39 AM Report

A Good start ,would be to Police the Dog owners ..Whom let their dogs Do what ever,and not clean up after them ..Disgusting Dog Poop '''
Tag33&1/3rd 2/26/2014 10:28:47 AM Report

Find our 'Lynx About Town' and bring back the animals. (with better care)
karebear13 2/26/2014 10:31:19 AM Report

I love the lynx!!
edz 2/26/2014 10:35:10 AM Report

leave your Harley's at home as well as all forms of noise pollution. Police the bird feeding people those geese make an awful mess. Lighting the pathways at belevue as there is alot of walking after dark there as well as more garbage cans needed.
justsomeguy 2/26/2014 10:40:00 AM Report

Definitely more garbage cans (although people still seem to not know how to use them), and fewer used hypodermic syringes. Getting tired of running into these. Sometimes in the summer the rain washes these down to the storm drains - I've been them laying at the edge of the road and little hill by the YMCA.
boilertyme 2/26/2014 11:02:16 AM Report

Should have sheltered sleeping areas to accomodate the unemployed in this town
nate123 2/26/2014 11:05:54 AM Report

I'm personally tired of all the Arecaceae trees... In my opinion they are a danger to our children, especially when the fruit ripens...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%27BEWARE_FALLING_COCONUTS%27_sign_in_Honolulu,_Hawaii.JPG

In July 1973, a two-year-old girl was killed and her aunt injured in what was described as "a hail of coconuts falling from a 50-foot (15 m) palm. Police reported that the woman was changing the infant's diaper when a "cluster of 57 coconuts" fell from the tree. That's right a cluster

A serious danger to all trying to escape the our harsh summer conditions.

Seriously...Our city really doesn't have anything better to waste tax money on?
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 11:11:05 AM Report

SkiDude already solved the geese problem - no grass = no geese!

We could permanently station a cop at Bellevue to make sure ppl clean up after themselves and their dogs, amazingly this would semm to be better use of taxpayer funds than their current busting of high schoolers for pot posession.

LOL @ Tag...wildlife all around you and you'd rather use taxes to round 'em up and feed 'em for the rest of their lives in captivity...but let's abuse them less than we did before, you say.

edz doesn't want any noise pollution, so no little kids allowed in the park, that's for sure - except for the muffled and mute

and justsomeguy would like to restrict all needle drug users from using public parks or eliminate all needle drug users? Or eliminate needles? Were you serious when you said this "I've been laying them at the edge of the road and little hill by the YMCA"!!?

If you can't show up for the open house then you might as well take the survey as I'm pretty sure no one in charge is trolling sootoday for ideas.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=jdRGoVd6GmqxQuOLh37%2fPw%3d%3d
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 11:12:01 AM Report

Great idea boilertyme. Maybe even set up some solar panels to help ventilate and heat them.

Nate, you might be looking for miamitoday.com?
frnlak 2/26/2014 11:12:34 AM Report

Get Davey O to get the MNR to put up a fence to keep me out and to
keep mother nature in. Hey...there's a song in there somewhere !

Have a happy day!
nate123 2/26/2014 11:20:29 AM Report

HowAbooutSomeLogic, I'm sure you can agree with me that the Arecaceae trees do not belong in our parks... What I stated is perfectly relevant.

HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 11:23:41 AM Report

Yeah, I thought you were saying "they are everywhere!!" and sometimes the most obvious sarcasm goes over my head.

So no lions or great white sharks either then, right?

Powerwise 2/26/2014 11:25:14 AM Report

Username -- HOW ABOUT SOME LOGIC --

I am sure you have an above average UNDERSTANDING of evil are proud to live in such a way and do not like CRITICISM?

-- BEEJ --

I am wondering what your opinion is towards the very lovely CATHEDRAL on, i believe, Wellington St in the east end?

(not criticality nor hatred)

Powerwise 2/26/2014 11:26:47 AM Report

It is a lovely day to sit down (not sloth) and enjoy a warm mug of hot cocoa.

I do have a GENUINE smile on my face as I type this to you.

I hope you will learn to smile one day (all in good fun)
xjcustomcoupe 2/26/2014 11:28:25 AM Report

Please take that hideous fence down that is around my Daddy's Train

PLEASE FREE MY DADDY'S TRAIN
yes I am yelling it!
iamtc 2/26/2014 11:29:02 AM Report

Just leave it as is and sell the property for 35,000 dollars and with money u can fix potholes on great northern road wait u need one million dollars scrap that idea this city is a mess better roads and parks in Syria
Powerwise 2/26/2014 11:30:36 AM Report

User name XJ CUSTOM COUP --

i am wondering why it is you claim to have some family ownership of a public icon in the middle of a park in Sault Ste. Marie?

Powerwise 2/26/2014 11:33:57 AM Report

i expected the fence to be for safety purposes for no malicious intent on the part of our MAYOR nor city council.

I am wondering if you are planning to make a real financial commitment towards genuine OWNERSHIP of this machine.

WHAT BELONGS IN OUR PARKS.

It is my INTENT to remain on topic (haha!)
luckyluke 2/26/2014 11:34:36 AM Report

Parks have nature people thats why thay call them parks. Wild life and animals are beautiful and supose to be there. For the trees thay give oxygen people just dont go near them if you dont like them. Realy people we are talking about a park not putting are kids in a bubble thay need nature and animals. We should have a place in the park just for the dogs though so some peolpe can stop complaning. A park is for everyone "people,kids,and pets". We should have water fountians throw out the park though so families and pets dont get heat stroke and can cool off.
nate123 2/26/2014 11:34:52 AM Report

HowAbooutSomeLogic,

I completely agree with the lion comment especially when Canadians are so conscious of environmental issues, removing a lion from it's natural habitat and moving it to the cold harsh weather we experience in northern Ontario would be cruel and inhumane.. In Africa, lions can be found in savanna grasslands with scattered Acacia trees which serve as shade; their habitat in India is a mixture of dry savanna forest and very dry deciduous scrub forest... don't even get me started about great white sharks.. but a bull shark (can survive in fresh water ponds) would take care of EDZ goose problem.
markbernard 2/26/2014 11:35:03 AM Report

Nate... Arecaceae trees??? THAT is your biggest problem with our parks!?!? You are going to make all of us suffer because you aren't man enough to handle a few coconuts on the noggin!??!???

Seriously now, clearly the biggest problem with bellevue park is the fact that people use it! If we just banned all those pesky humans from interfering then all of the problems would go away!

Problem with noise? Don't go there... Problem with dogs? Don't go there... Problem with the stupid fenced off train that's been maiming all of our children? Don't go there... Problem with falling coconuts? Don't go there... Problem with needles? Don't go there... Problem with problems? See a therapist (let's face it there are some things avoiding a park can't do)...

Arecaceae trees or not people are just going to whine and complain because that is all people are good for these days. And since we have the internet to help us out and we can hide behind the anonymity of screen names we can voice ourselves without actually dealing with the backlash to our comments.

I am guessing that meeting is going to turn into a giant argument of dog owners vs dog haters... With any decisions ultimately being made by whomever is sitting in the highest tax bracket at the meeting. At least everyone can feel like they are contributing though!
dust2 2/26/2014 11:41:58 AM Report

off-leash dogs need to go. start handing out fines to the irresponsible dog owners, they will learn to leash their dog quick if it costs them money.

so tired of kids being scared s**tless because a random off-leashed dog comes running up to the kids. how are dog owners so ignorant to think their dog is safe running off-leash at a park. hard to feel guilt for these people when their dog runs off and gets hit by a car.
markbernard 2/26/2014 11:51:13 AM Report

Annnd that will be the opening of the meeting, then someone is going to counter with "we don't have a dog park, and dogs are only found off-leash on a small percentage of the park" to which someone is going to respond with something along the lines of "If you don't have a giant farm for your dog, maybe you shouldn't have a dog" to which someone will respond "If you don't have your own park for your kids, maybe you shouldn't have kids" and then someone is going to mention "You can have a dog park all you have to do is pay for it" and then someone is going to say "Why is that? You didn't have to pay for the giant bike path or all the parks that are in the city" And everything will be a valid argument, and everytime you do something to make someone happy, someone else is going to complain about it because they have nothing better to do with their lives...
northernmale 2/26/2014 11:52:55 AM Report

I think they should make an Rv park on the water. Just look across the river that one is always full.. A place for tourist to stay awhile and spend some money.. Word of mouth goes a long way to bring others here to vist. The closest place is KOA or Glen View cottages. Face it once they are that far out they do not return when traveling. AS they say build it and they will come.
Ski-Dude 2/26/2014 11:53:03 AM Report

Nice Mark!
markbernard 2/26/2014 11:54:14 AM Report

When in reality all you would have to do to solve that problem is if you don't like dogs, don't run through topsail island because "It's your democratically given right" and dog owners clean up after your own dogs. And then everyone can get along and stop this ridiculous whining that we are all well aware you are capable of doing... IF and that is a big IF, this meeting can sway from that one heated issue that can be solved with everyone not acting like a bunch of douchebags, maybe we can actually do something to better the park, but I am somewhat skeptical.
justsomeguy 2/26/2014 11:56:44 AM Report

@HowAbooutSomeLogic - lol yes I meant seeing them laying. Too exhausted to think straight today.

@dust - good point. There have been a lot of dog nips & bites on adults & kids who really can't do much when the owner suddenly takes them dog away & leaves before anyone can do anything.
markbernard 2/26/2014 11:58:00 AM Report

And thanks Ski-dude!
dust2 2/26/2014 12:01:47 PM Report

markbernard, some of the issues are valid though. you said if you don't like needles, don't go to the park. you seriously take no issue with needles on the ground around the park? you don't think that's a valid concern because kids and pets can be harmed or seriously injured?

some complaints are nothing more than complaints, sure, but when you start telling people to not go to the park if they don't like needles on the ground, that's showing you don't care about public health. it's a bit much, that's all.

off-leash dogs shouldn't be ruining the park for others. that's why there's rules and restrictions, so MOST people can have a good time.
dust2 2/26/2014 12:05:18 PM Report

also, the arguments you gave examples of (which are pretty accurate arguments you'd find in a meeting like that) are just blame shifting arguments. those are the kind of arguments that shouldn't even be listened to because it solves no real issues. an example is "we have our dogs off-leash because we don't have a dog park". it's a perfect example of "I can't solve my own problems so I'll make others suffer". If someone wants to run their dog off-leash because we don't have a dog park, that person is a terrible problem solver. These people should be ignored, quickly.

those meetings/debates need arguments with substance, not the arguments you'd typically find posted here.
markbernard 2/26/2014 12:08:03 PM Report

Dust I also said if you don't like falling coconuts, don't go to the park. If anyone couldn't grasp the sarcasm in my post, I honestly can't help you... I am saying that the REAL issues will not be addressed because everyone is going to be obsessed with this stupid argument over dogs. I have been to topsail, and seen dogs off-leash, I have not seen dogs running all over the park because owners just let them run free. The park is huge, if you don't want to be around off-leash dogs, don't go to that one small part of the park. AND if you are taking your dog to the park, clean up after the damn dog, it's not difficult and it is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT your responsibility to do so...

I once walked my dog down by the boardwalk and I saw a couple biking, so I pulled my dog to the side and made him sit while the bikes went by (He was leashed the entire time) and the kind and caring woman screamed at me while she rode by mentioning "THIS AREA IS FOR EFFING BIKES IDIOT"... Do you know why she did that? Because like so many others she wanted to feel some iota of power over another human being... All people have to do is co-exist and that is too much to ask for in society today. That is the problem with the parks, once you get over that you can address issues like used syringes and such.
Powerwise 2/26/2014 12:11:30 PM Report

username -- DUST 2 --

I have read and understood your messages and am quite pleased with your ability to REASON.

i am wondering about the state of MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES at the local Bellevue Park area because I have had difficulty travelling to that section of town in the past several months.

I do seem to recall a large amount of birds and other small animals that are really treated quite well by visitors.

it is the afternoon of Wednesday, February 26th.
dust2 2/26/2014 12:12:26 PM Report

>"Do you know why she did that? Because like so many others she wanted to feel some iota of power over another human being... "

glad to see you know what's up. I agree though, useless whining will likely be the main issue instead of a real one.
markbernard 2/26/2014 12:19:55 PM Report

And that is the unfortunate part of this entire thing. People need to focus on co-existence so they can ban together and actually address the things that matter. We spend so much time squabbling over petty nonsense that we have allowed things to get that extreme that we need to be concerned with used syringes and worry about there not being enough light on the pathways. People can be powerful if they come together to face things rather than driving a wedge between one another with useless crap.

If we could get past all the little crap that could be solved with a little give from both sides, we could probably find a solution to make the parks a safer and happier place for everyone involved.
Tag33&1/3rd 2/26/2014 12:39:05 PM Report

I played on that train engine when I was a child all the time. Nobody ever got hurt besides the normal kind of 'boo-boos' that happen on any play area. Why is off-limits these days? That tug boat too was fun I recall.
Tag33&1/3rd 2/26/2014 12:42:56 PM Report

@howaboutsomelogic

Its better than the "dispatch" alternative any day! Would rather see them alive then executed for wanting to be in this area! (and that's what inevitably happens!)
I did say taken care of better--that means NOT a small cage.
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 12:45:24 PM Report

Great posts, mark. We will never please everyone but we can try and we've got a chance of making real progress if we see ourselves as equals.

dusty - "so tired of kids being scared s**tless because a random off-leashed dog comes running up to the kids"

How many times a week do you see this kind of thing? You make it sound pretty serious.

I can't speak for other dog owners but rather than constantly fight my dog on a leash for the rest of his life I decided to train him. It took a few months but he listens to me now (every time!) and other than avoiding fines I see no reason to leash him anywhere. The vast majority of kids love him but anytime we're walking and I see a kid I make sure he ignores them unless they come up to him or the parent engages me with 'Is he friendly?' or what have you. I understand as well that some dog fearing ppl would be less scared if they encountered him on a leash, not knowing how well trained he is, it may scare them. I think my care for others is reflected in the amount of effort I've put in to training my dog and the knowledge (up to this point anyway) that he won't bother them but I simply do not have the means nor the motivation to address all the fears the citizens of our community choose to hold.

I realize he is an exception and the owners you are concerned with are likely the same ones that don't clean up after their pets and let their Tim's cups fall where they may - citizens who, generally speaking, believe the world revolves around them.
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 12:50:35 PM Report

Tag, I just don't think you can have something less than an actual animal sanctuary designed for a small number and types of animals if you want to keep them happy. I don't think we have the space or the money or most importantly, the motivation to do it right.

As I recall we had peacocks and all manner of animals that are not native to the area. It was a literal zoo and I don't think you could take animals from around here and have them as happy as they are now while instead, living in a zoo.
doggs 2/26/2014 12:52:18 PM Report

Keep your Dogs in your own yard ...Let them Poop There ...
Tag33&1/3rd 2/26/2014 12:57:39 PM Report

Is that other place near 4th line I think still in operation? Spruce Haven? I forgot about that place for our "Lynx" (just in case he keeps coming back)
dust2 2/26/2014 1:04:25 PM Report

>"I realize he is an exception and the owners you are concerned with are likely the same ones that don't clean up after their pets and let their Tim's cups fall where they may - citizens who, generally speaking, believe the world revolves around them."

Bingo. By what you mentioned, you would be someone I'm not worried about. You trained your dog to act properly off-leash, you likely have a reliable recall, you've spent the time training your dog.

It's everyone ELSE that's the problem, someone like you I find is a minority here. I've met dog owners who don't train their dog at ALL, and still let them run off-leash because he's a "good boy". I know dog owners who don't even train their dog to sit. Nothing.

If there were more paid fines (like a parking ticket) for off-leash dogs, I bet you'd see a lot less of them. Just an idea for one solution though.
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 1:05:02 PM Report

doggs are you one of those ppl who always leaves work and goes home when they have to #2? Sounds like an obsession of yours, poo.

If my dog defecates in the park and I clean up after him how is that a problem for you? You don't even have to watch...unless you want to. Aren't the geese and other wild animals that don't clean up after themselves more of a problem?

I'm trying to understand...
HowAbooutSomeLogic 2/26/2014 1:25:10 PM Report

dust, I realize I'm in the minority but you're not really bothered by dogs or pet owners; it is irresponsible citizens that bother you and the rest of us as well.

You wish they were raised the way we were but they weren't. They breathe ignorance and egotism and these things are widespread and deep rooted and won't disappear with fines, ones we don't have the manpower to enforce, even those already on the books.

Our police are basically glorified revenue generators at this point, (poorly) attempting to show they're worth their enormous cost with the few tickets they issue.

Why not get rid of all of them, hire a few hundred independent contractors/students to drive/bike around enforcing the kinds of things any child could do for which they get a cut of all tickets issued (costing nothing and profiting who knows how much), and then hire private security and professional investigators to do what the police are supposed to - reduce violent crime and keep the peace.

starzstruck 2/26/2014 1:39:08 PM Report

What belongs in our parks?
Nature, playground equipment, natural wildlife, and ton of kids and families just having FUN.

If you have problems with the noise in a park; don't live by one, nor visit one.

If you have problems with wildlife; the solution is the same as the above.

As for the Grotto issue. I personally don't believe it belongs in Belleview Park, but rather it should have its own area specifically designated for it (separate park maybe?)

Maybe if we didn't place so many rules and restrictions on our parks, children could learn to be children again enjoy playing. ANYTHING can be dangerous, it is up to the parents to make sure the kids play safely (If the city is worried about people suing, etc; place signs (play at your own risk, or something along those lines).

I would also like to see a public splash pad, maybe in Belleview, maybe elsewhere.
markbernard 2/26/2014 1:46:52 PM Report

This goes back to what I said, if you just set aside an area where dogs can run, and people actually clean up after their animals. And those people respect all of the other areas where they can't run free, no one would have a reason to piss and moan... Then we could actually focus on things that matter... unfortunately, everyone wants everything all to themselves and the all important "I" comes shining through... And we get set back to this argument again...

Co-exist and ban together to deal with real dilemmas such as crime and drug use. When it comes down to it, I don't care if I don't go somewhere because there is a dog there, just as I don't care if I can't take my dog somewhere because people are there. What everyone should care about is broken glass all over the place from idiots that decide they can drink everywhere and just smash bottles (I don't want my dog to cut his paws as I am sure you don't want your kids to cut their bodies up). Just as we can find practical solutions for the syringes and whatever else is ACTUALLY a problem.

Everyone needs to get over themselves first, then we can have a level headed discussion about areas of real concern.

On the same token, if the biggest concern in your life is where someone who is not actually going out of their way to cause an issue in someone else's life is spending their time, then I am sincerely jealous of you, and I wish I had enough free time to become irate over petty issues. Perhaps if you took the rest of your time and focused on what mattered, we might actually be able to get something done in this city rather than just causing an inconvenience for each other.
nate123 2/26/2014 1:51:43 PM Report

markbernard,

Have I ever told you the joke about the coconut??
Entitledtomyopinion 2/26/2014 2:14:55 PM Report

1. Remove the fence around the train
2. More family friendly events at the bandshell to bring back families to the park
3. Build a nice big park with a nice playground, things for families to do, and a grotto on church property somewhere. That way people can't bitch about it all the time, (either side).
4. A off leash fenced dog park on its own (not on topsail island). They have nice ones in other cities - time to get on the map.

Thats all I would do (IMHO)
CBradley 2/26/2014 3:51:05 PM Report

As a dog owner I have to agree with the parks poop and scoop laws. No one should have to step in it, but what about getting the parks to start scooping all the goose droppings at Bellview Park.....and other areas of our city. Why should we have to watch where we walk because of that? If we don't want to pay parks services to do it then get work release people and have those who have broken the laws to do it. Make this a part of their sentence with supervision. Or maybe those who claim they can't get work and are living on the system, get them to clean it up. Or maybe, just maybe, if it is too degrading for them to scoop to the goose deposits, then they would be more apt to find a job and stay out of trouble.
Just Saying!
mikej 2/26/2014 4:24:13 PM Report

bike park!
kamen 2/26/2014 4:37:42 PM Report

Lets see...maybe take that stupid fence down around the train at Bellvue Park.
justsomeguy 2/26/2014 4:52:40 PM Report

@Tag
You said "I played on that train engine when I was a child all the time. Nobody ever got hurt"

That was then, this is now. We were all different kids 20+ years ago. To generalize kids today are a different breed. We took different kinds of calculated risks. Cuts & bruises were a sign of a good summer - not injuries.

When was the last time you saw a kid climbing a tree or 2 kids climbing a tree to see who could get to the top?

My street is full of kids but I only see them outside on hallowe'en. Who knows where the hell they are the rest of the year. I've never even heard any kid shout "CAR" on my street to stop a game. No catch, no lemonade stand, no tree climbing, no hide & seek or capture the flag.

Kids today are different. People today are different.

When I banged my head at a playground, my parents checked me out, cleaned me up then said "be more careful".

Today a kid bangs their head and someone asks "who owns the park and who's their lawyer".



Beej 2/26/2014 5:04:23 PM Report

Username: Powerwise
Whoa!!
You type a lot like Ms. B!
markbernard 2/26/2014 5:26:31 PM Report

Entitled, that would be the logical solution that would make everyone happy, and I guarantee that someone would still have a problem with it. If they made an off leash area, somewhere with water access (dogs running in +35 degree heat with no water isn't good) That would be ideal...

However, if the city announced that they are doing that, thousands of people who do not own dogs would gripe about wasted tax dollars on something only people with dogs can use... There was no problem with having a skate park for those who skateboard, A Huge bike path throughout the city for those who cycle and multiple parks for those who have kids... You see to those who have things like that, and take them for granted, someone who wants to bring a dog somewhere is simply a lesser class of human, and apparently their choice of extracurricular activity is something that should be ignored... Of course, unless they are somewhere where a stubborn, bull-headed individual who clearly lacks control in their daily life happens to be, then they are someone to yell at...

And Nate I would love to hear a coconut joke!
markbernard 2/26/2014 5:35:27 PM Report

Also, before someone takes offense to my statement, about dog owners being scapegoats for people who lack control in their lives to yell at... If you are offended by this comment, you are clearly one of the people in question, so I suggest perhaps discussing with your partner about letting you wear the pants a little more, maybe growing a spine when dealing with your boss, or stop being a doormat for everyone in general, because random strangers don't need to pay for your insecurities... I am making that statement now, so when someone inevitably gets upset with the previous they can know I am not just centering them out... :)
dust2 2/26/2014 5:41:56 PM Report

If someone can grab some land and charge a dog owner $10/month to use it, they should. We would have a good dog park if it was profitable, and maintained by someone who wants to profit from it. Use the profit for maintenance cost and maybe to fulfill any requests.

I don't see why the government has to run a dog park at all.
Tag33&1/3rd 2/26/2014 5:46:08 PM Report

@justsomeguy
Yep--gonna have to agree with ya there.
Very true--who's gonna wanna play on a train when they can "virtually" drive one or something better on their gaming systems.
markbernard 2/26/2014 5:52:39 PM Report

Dust I guarantee you if someone did that, dog owners would pay the money, as I mentioned before, if it was somewhere with water access of course... But that would require start-up capital which most people do not have, unless they already have the lot available. Even if the government did that with land they have and charged I am sure people would partake.

On that same token I believe there are 5 - 10 cities in the entire country that do not have at least one government funded dog park, and I do not see any reason why dog owners of Sault Ste Marie should be held to a lesser standard of dog owners in any other city.

Whether they crack down and hand out more fines, or finally get with the times and set aside an off-leash area, there is going to be a plethora of complaints to follow though, I promise that much.
RonBes 2/26/2014 6:00:19 PM Report

I don't care what they do, as long as they keep the damn religious grotto off PUBLIC land.
markbernard 2/26/2014 6:11:32 PM Report

I am not going to lie, I didn't even know there was a religious grotto...
dust2 2/26/2014 6:11:53 PM Report

I wonder why the city hasn't proposed one yet then? I don't mind a government funded dog park, but it makes me think we should have one already if we could. Maybe there isn't enough demand? A lot of dog owners here, but the town is only 70K with lots of elderly and disabled (who would barely use a park).

I remember seeing a proposal a while ago for a dog park near the humane society, but I don't know what happened to that. It would need water like you said, and parking (although water wouldn't be 100% necessary, just nice) which might be a lot to ask for in this town.
markbernard 2/26/2014 6:23:47 PM Report

There is a proposed dog park, the last I checked it is still in the works, the city is requiring that a decent sum of money be raised for it before they get it off the ground and the funds haven't yet been raised in spite of the multiple charity drives and donation bins around town.

The reason I keep stressing the water aspect is (on a personal level) I try to bring my dog anywhere with water in the summer, that I can get away with running him in the water a bit. When we are breaking temps of 30 degrees and him being a black double coated dog, it is important to his health that I get him somewhere to cool off, the kiddie pool and hose don't always cut it I find.
fronz 2/26/2014 6:29:12 PM Report

First we should define the words civic park .I'd say , a sanctuary for people to go where there isn't common business , a refuge built for comfort and enjoyment .
Having said that , we all know this costs and this is diverse . Not everyone will agree on all of it , so this is the reason for this discussion .
May I add , that if there is an attraction that bothers some , they merely can avoid going to it . As for running dogs the park could section a part for this . As for grotto , we're missing the point , being , This is Sault Ste. Marie , notice the "Marie " ending , it's been this place ever since the beginning , if marking it with a grotto is so offensive why not change the cities name ?
Thank You . Fronz
markbernard 2/26/2014 6:34:28 PM Report

I get what you are saying though, with the demand. The only thing that bothers me, is I am sure we have more dog owners than people who skateboard in this city, so why do skaters get a park and not dog owners? I am sure there are more people who have dogs than play tennis, but I can find a tennis court easily enough. And no one batted an eye at these things.... For some reason unbeknownst to me people raise an uproar that results in being a force to be reckoned with when someone mentions dog park. To be honest it's mostly for the owners anyway, any time I have been out with my dog I have noticed a bunch of people socializing, and generally having a good time.

I am not saying you are against it... But a lot of people are, and it boils down to selfishness... The majority of people want the city to do things that are important to only them. If our city only did things that worked for every single member of the city collectively and all-inclusively we would have a giant empty city. As soon as people learn to get over themselves (which is unrealistic) then harmony ensues...

Until that moment, you will see people harping about everything and anything they can on sootoday, with minor breaks for people to complain about the police (just based on what I have seen in the past, and don't get me started on how obnoxious the people are that think they can do a better job than the entire police force)
markbernard 2/26/2014 6:39:03 PM Report

Fronz raises a valid point too, there is more than enough room for everyone to use that park. And there is no logical reason when it cannot be all-accommodating. As I said before all of this boils down to a sociological need to be selfish.

It's like we are trying to turn into every typical American stereotype (and I say stereotype, before someone calls me anti-American) that you see on sitcoms...

"If it's not about me then it's a waste of the taxpayers money, and I pay taxes!"
markbernard 2/26/2014 6:41:15 PM Report

*no logical reason WHY it cannot be all-accommodating* apologies
dust2 2/26/2014 8:06:50 PM Report

I think the issue is demand then. There's been lots of time to raise funds, I haven't heard a word about it. Something tells me that if everyone here really wanted a dog park, we would have some decent form of funding right now. I imagine it's pretty low, I guess that's not surprising in a way.

I think everyone wants a dog park but no one feels they should pay anything to get one. The ones that do want to pay are a very small minority that won't raise enough funds for it to happen.

Thinking further, I don't think it would even be that profitable. I think it's out of the question if you have to buy any land because as you said, capital would need to be large. If you charged people a reasonable rate (10/month or 100/year) it would take way too long to start breaking even. You might be able to charge people more, but in this town it would be steep to charge anyone more than 10 a month.

Thinking even further than that, location would be such a big deal. I think you would need two, one east and one west. Finding a middle ground would be too costly and borderline impossible, finding anything else alienates half of potential visitors.
xjcustomcoupe 2/27/2014 10:52:12 AM Report

Quote- Powerwise 2/26/2014 11:30:36 AM

User name XJ CUSTOM COUP --

i am wondering why it is you claim to have some family ownership of a public icon in the middle of a park in Sault Ste. Marie?

I have no claim of some family ownership to the train, it was donated to the City. I do have some good family memories of a Train my father us to run in Algoma Steel on the Hi-line and yes I know there was a few other guys that had the same job, some forty years ago.

fast-forward past 5 years

Grandkids of the Men that ran the Train started a Facebook group page to try to save the Train.

The Community of Sault Ste Marie came together to save the Train, not just 1 person or some big business Corporation , but it was the Grandkids that started it!

After 5000 signature's to get the ball rolling to stop the City from scrapping it.

Funny how Social Media worked back then and today and how the Train is still there Today.

And yes I am very proud to say that 1 of the Grandkids, my Son , helped to save a piece of history of the Soo.

Cheers from 1 proud Parent !

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