Letter to David OraziettiTuesday, February 25, 2014 by: SooToday.com Staff
SooToday.com received a copy of a letter sent to MPP David Orazietti, Minister of Natural Resources, from loyal reader Tom Brason in regards to what he sees as barriers preventing lawful public access to lands/waters due to MNR actions.
In recent local radio interviews you’ve acknowledged the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources has admitted it allows employees to acquire public lands for non-private, commercial uses, that the MNR supports the practice with internal forms to be approved by the Deputy Minister for that purpose.
According to the Public Lands Act they can’t purchase any “right, title or interest” in any public lands in their own name or the name of another, one exception being that it be a fair process of a public draw or auction... limited to private, non commercial use only.
The MNRs excuse was an internal directive stating “right, title or interest” only applies to the purchase of estates and not land use permits that are used to acquire public lands for commercial uses.
We’ve not only debunked this aberration, we’ve also shared proof of our concerns with the Hon Minister that an entire Policy appears altered and reminded him about the Public Services of Ontario Act which in itself puts the kibosh on the entire fiasco once and for all.
You can’t avoid a public inquiry, you’re saying the Lieutenant Governor ‘possibly’ allowed this intolerable use of public lands but declined to speak for the L-G or his office when asked (by the reporter) whether permission was granted on a case-by-case basis – or was just issued in blanket form for whenever the Deputy Minister might see fit.’
Regardless how we cut it, being civil servants, MNR employees are still responsible under the Public Services of Ontario Act which is further binding, regardless of any such loop hole in the PLA.
Additionally, why have you not launched an inquiry into this equally suspicious MNR document “Management Guidelines for Forestry and Resource-Based Tourism” where the Ministry uses their expertise in the form of TIPs to prevent lawful public access to our Crown lands by the tearing out, at great public expense, publicly owned and funded roads and bridges, regardless if needed for future or firefighting.
One TIP even provides leases to outfitters for strategic points on public roads such as at bridges for an added measure of insurance but the icing on the cake which everyone with any sense of decency or morals should be very concerned with is the statement on page 18 recommending deceit with this actual quote...
“Education and communication efforts to explain that the purpose of the access control is to protect natural resources can assist with achieving public acceptance”.
Why does the Liberal Party appear to ignore and suppress very clear and credible evidence rather than act in a responsible manner to the people they represent?
Why did the Liberals in the fall of 2010 rush changes to legislation through parliament as a perceived cover-up over past complaints of abuse of power?
Why are public lands being treated like vast private game preserves for the affluent, 85% of whom are foreigners, charging Ontarians with trespassing on their own land?
Hon Minister, when are you going to call for an independent investigation into this extremely serious matter that’s grown out of control to the point of enveloping the Liberal Party under a cloud of complicity?
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steelworker 2/25/2014 2:53:37 PM Report
"crickets" from the Liberals. David O. does what he is told by Mr. Wynne.
dust2 2/25/2014 3:30:48 PM Report
This guy explains NOTHING. He says crown land is being sold for private uses, but fails to mention what those uses are. He fails to mention any evidence, let alone show any.
The run on sentences and poor formatting make this letter borderline useless. What's the point of this, to shame?
bbcat 2/25/2014 3:32:38 PM Report
when David O became Minister of the MNR,I thought my son,s job would be safe and there might be more jobs for a highly unemployed Sault Ste. Marie. He turned back to the Soo and even his fellow teachers .I hope Soo voters remember that when they vote. Once their in they spend there time kissing wynnes ass
derek 2/25/2014 3:57:13 PM Report
Public money dust2.
Its our money and lands...
things should be above board.
Shame on MNR!
scottstewy123 2/25/2014 4:04:01 PM Report
David Orazietti Over and over again we see scandal after scandal by the LIBERALS which you are part of. When will Ontario get a chance to vote you and the Liberals out of office once and for all? David Orazietti, Ontario is tired of high costs of electricity, High cost of insurance. We the taxpayers in the North do not want to pay for the transit infrastructure in Toronto. Let Toronto pay for there own transit system. We are tired of the lies from Toronto on issues like Samsung. We are so fed up of waste like the BILLION dollar gas plant cancelation that we the taxpayer has to pay for. We are sick of scandals like Hydro one literally screwing the customers. How can you David Orazietti be part of a corrupt government and then tell us here in Sault Ste Marie that the Fiberal ,woops I mean Liberal government are doing everything in my best interests? Do you have a no morals Mr David Orazietti? As long as you are a part of it you become like them CORRUPT. The scandals I have listed are the Liberal legacy. A legacy of high costs to electricity. I really hope you read this. You and your party need to own it and be held accountable. Thru criminal action.
Thim 2/25/2014 4:16:10 PM Report
scottstewy123, in all due respect to the Liberals, this fiasco was going on before they came into power, both the NDP and PCs rubber stamped items handed to them without caring to evaluate what they were endorsing.
The Liberals are currently at fault for ignoring evidence warranting a public enquiry and trying to suppress complaints to the point of involving themselves in a legal sense.
steelworker 2/25/2014 4:17:52 PM Report
bbcat: that would be "wrinkly ass".
Gurpy 2/25/2014 4:19:42 PM Report
Bravo! Refreshing to see someone who is not afraid to say it like it is! Yes, it is long overdue that the Liberals be held accountable and voted right out of office!
Gurpy 2/25/2014 4:26:02 PM Report
With all due respect, aren`t you sugar coating all the lies and money wasted by the Liberal party? They are the ones in power in Ontario not the NDP or the Conservatives! They are the ones responsible for the mess this province is in!
dust2 2/25/2014 4:29:29 PM Report
This "Make toronto pay for their subway" attitude is quite depressing. Northern Ontario would be SCREWED without the funding from Southern Ontario, you're a fool if you think otherwise. Why does such a small, nothing city have such a high level of entitlement?
By the way, this letter still proves NOTHING. It's literally a "you guys did a bad thing, I'm not going to prove it or show any evidence, but you did a bad thing!"
This is nothing but hearsay.
T-rat 2/25/2014 4:47:03 PM Report
Dust says "Northern Ontario would be screwed without funding from the south". I don't believe it. Where in hell does he think the south gets the "funding" to give back to us? Take mining and forestry resources out of the equation and hold back all of the billions in revenue generated by those two industries, revenues which go the south, and then tell me where the south finds the "funding" to save po lil ole us up here in the north.
Statements like this really piss me off but as the old saying goes: I wouldn't have to manage my anger if people could learn to manage their F@#K*ing stupidity!!
dust2 2/25/2014 4:59:11 PM Report
T-rat, the population of Nothern Ontario is at least a tenth of what Southern Ontario has. For every one tax payer we have, they have ten. We're under one million residents, with small cities that include horrible job markets (SSM being a prime example of).
There's lots of revenue generating services other than mining and forestry. Lottery for example.
It's an elitist attitude, nothing more. We give to Toronto and they give back, we're ONE province sharing resources. Besides, I'd hate to see out of the population that we actually have (750,000) how many are actual tax payers. There's plenty of disabled people, welfare recipients, and retirees, especially in this city.
Toronto has more residents than all of Nothern Ontario. Think about that before you start calling people stupid for having logical opinions
trj 2/25/2014 5:24:16 PM Report
Agreed. Also need to mention that the high cost of electricity has caused some Corporations to shut their doors putting many Ontarians' out of work. Fiscal after fiscal this cost is mostly due to the GEA that the Liberal agenda taking away our democratic rights. Wind Turbines can soon bankrupt Ontario. David O.(our MNR Minister) has said nothing and approved the Bow lake Project. Our MOE has approved it. The BFN approved it. Shame on you David. Shame on MOE and shame on the BFN that agreed to this destruction.
In light of this extremely disconcerting state of affairs, perhaps it’s time to remind all residents forced to face the threat of the possibility of adverse health effects or loss of property values that our government owes its existence to us the people. Its primary purpose is to protect and safeguard the citizenry. It also exists to ensure the welfare of the populace, as well as to sustain an order in which all may flourish and pursue their goals.
When people en masse realize that this mess is a huge SCAM, then maybe we will do the right thing and kick their butts to another planet.
T-rat 2/25/2014 5:28:45 PM Report
Dust -- you criticize the letter writer because, in your opinion he doesn't cite specific examples, doesn't give you anything, and you say there are lots of other revenue sources and the only thing you can come up with is "lottery".
Metro Toronto does has millions of people who pay taxes -- municipal, provincial, federal, and they have a proportional need for billions more in funding than we do to support all of the infrastructure required for these millions of people. But please tell us, what southern industries (besides lotteries) generate billions of dollars that go directly to the provincial coffers that allows Queen's Park to fund the North?
Yes, we here in the north comprise 1/10th of the provincial population living in 9/10ths of the provincial landmass but the revenues generated from mining and forestry (and lotteries, and tourism), which go to Queen's Park from only 1/10th of the residents represent a hell of a lot more proportionately than from the millions more in Toronto, or from within the rest of the south.
And while I'm on it, what's your big gripe with everything Soo? In any and every forum on this site you bitch about being saddened, depressed, upset with people in this city who are old, on welfare, drink, smoke, can't afford parking....yadda, yadda, yadda. Since you indicated that you have a car and do in fact drive, why don't you get in that car and just go! Toronto awaits you.
dust2 2/25/2014 5:43:44 PM Report
Your argument still screams entitlement. You offer nothing of substance other than we should keep the money because it's generated up here, that's it. There's nothing you've said which would make any reasonable person agree with you. What about construction? Energy? Other industries? They generate billions just like the mining industries, what's the difference? Oh location? That's right, it doesn't matter.
People like you just sound greedy. Pure greed. We deserve more money because some of it is generated up here? What kind of foolish attitude is that.
By the way I never said I even lived here. There's a good reason I don't give my personal information to nobodies.
steelworker 2/25/2014 6:13:35 PM Report
What kind of attitude-why a southern Liberal attitude-chump.
Mopar 2/25/2014 7:37:29 PM Report
That would be Mrs. Wynne.
northerngentleman 2/25/2014 7:52:10 PM Report
Don't forget what the NDP did to us under Bob Rae or the Conservatives did to us under Mike Harris. They all screw us one way or the other. What is the worse of the 3 evils?
Norm 2/25/2014 7:59:20 PM Report
Dust, at least he acknowledges who he is, unlike the rest of us.
coachkids4life 2/26/2014 12:03:08 AM Report
dust2 whats with you are you related to Rob Ford. you seem to know alot about nothing if you love southern ontario so much go back there and move in with the rest of the ford jokers. dumbass
dust2 2/26/2014 7:14:00 AM Report
yeah because he's such a true honorable person for telling us his REAL NAME, OH MY GOD HIS REAL NAME, HOW BRAVE
TOO MUCH BRAVERY FOR ME LOL
Norm 2/26/2014 7:27:10 AM Report
Dust likes to pump people up, as we used to say.
dust2 2/26/2014 7:31:27 AM Report
>"In light of this extremely disconcerting state of affairs, perhaps it’s time to remind all residents forced to face the threat of the possibility of adverse health effects or loss of property values that our government owes its existence to us the people."
jesus this is still going on? the windmills cause negative health effects? yeah because coal, nuclear, and oil are just so safe right? w'ere pumping out toxic fossil fuels from the ground and putting smoke into the air, but now that we have spinning metal blades in the air, it's a big deal.
it's ignorant people like this that make issues like this difficult. these anti-wind fools are bought and paid for by oil companies, how on earth could any logical person look at a windmill and be angry at it. it's one of the cleanest safest forms of renewable energy.
the ignorance is unreal.
jowo60 2/26/2014 9:08:28 AM Report
Great Letter Mr.Brason. Mr. Orazietti responds with a canned letter written by the MNR. Mr. David ORZIETTI, please represent the peoples from your riding and the North. Closing roads and access to prime lakes is not right. Make the MNR do their job of Managing our Resources for Us Ontarians.
trj 2/26/2014 10:12:23 AM Report
@dust2. You'r ignorant to the facts. One would suspect your head is the sand or in the Liberals a.. where the sun don't shine. Get informed. This GEA has pitted,destroyed and wrecked havoc on rural Ontario and the Liberals are rushing to fulfill their agenda to install 6700 or more unwanted, unneeded, intrusive noisy steel monsters that will stand for ages as a monument to mans greed.
The McWynnty Liberals have succeeded not only in wrecking the economy of the province, but have created a divisive and unhappy atmosphere for those of us choosing to live in rural Ontario. The Energy file has been completely mismanaged on all levels, and the path to “reliance on wind and solar” for the future, becomes more exposed every day as the SCAM it is. To date, it doesn’t seem to matter to the Liberals and NDP mutual admiration society, that paving over the landscape, creating environmental havoc and resorting to full dictatorial and “bully boy” tactics to suppress taxpayers rights, is NOT the way to govern anywhere! We are supposed to be a democratic society, but resorting to the criminal behaviours we have seen play out since the GEA was brought in, has been devastating to that very concept in Ontario. From the gas Plant scandal, and to finding out EXACTLY who was responsible in the government for the decision to do so, may provide a small ray of light onto the Black Box that has undermined our society, municipalities and individual plus property rights. In Ontario, for too long we have been scammed. Are You LISTENING Wynne, (David O) and Horvath to the People of Ontario!!!
dust2 2/26/2014 10:25:17 AM Report
>"You'r ignorant to the facts."
>"This GEA has pitted,destroyed and wrecked havoc on rural Ontario and the Liberals are rushing to fulfill their agenda to install 6700 or more unwanted, unneeded, intrusive noisy steel monsters that will stand for ages as a monument to mans greed."
I stopped reading after that. If you think wind and solar is a scam, you need a lot of help. Your levels of paranoia are disturbingly high if you legitimately believe that the cleanest renewable energy generators are scams.
You tell me I'm ignorant, you tell me to become informed, but then you immediately spew wrong, misinformed information about wind farms that I hear from peoples grandma. Those myths have been debunked and there's little truth to the claims.
You need help, serious mental help.
dutch touch 2/26/2014 10:52:31 AM Report
What i read is political parties , electricity issues , Toronto issues , and blah , blah , blah.
This story is about the M.N.R selling crown land to their employees.
Mr. Orazietti , get a public inquiry to see if this is true. If it is , fire the ones responsible. If any crown land should come up for sale then it should be advertised and the PUBLIC should have an opportunity to "bid" on it.