Slick Nick 11/4/2013 8:48:59 AM Report
As much as I hate seeing drinking and driving or hearing about them, this guy may have been sleeping in his car, but we don't know the surroundings of it. Maybe he and his significant other got into a fight and she/he kicked him out of the hotel room? Maybe he was drunk and didn't have money for a cab or anything, and then just thought, ok, i'll sleep in my parked car until the morning. This doesn't seem quite as bad of being found driving while under the influence. Maybe he wasn't "passed out", maybe he had a couple beer and agreed to the fact he knew he had too much to drive and wanted to sleep it off. There are many circumstances here that we don't know before we start bashing this character. And to be fair, I could be wrong, and I do not know this person.
crashed13 11/4/2013 8:50:15 AM Report
Always thought that law was odd. Impaired even with the car parked and turned off and even sleeping in the back seat.
Probably though he was doing a good thing by sleeping it off rather then driving home.
That only works if you hide the keys I hear.
MarcHandthefunkybunch 11/4/2013 8:55:50 AM Report
The guy had drugs too. He deserved the charge and glad he's off the streets.
roxxyroller 11/4/2013 8:56:51 AM Report
I do not know this guy either, but yeah I agree that one should not be charged for sleeping in their car in a parking lot. Although I know nothing regarding this charge, I too would assume that he was perhaps sleeping off the booze until he was sober enough to drive? As long as he isn't operating a vehicle, I don't see the problem to be honest. Who knows? Maybe he even called a cab and waited in the car for it but fell asleep while waiting? No one fully knows, but I think this charge is stupid to be honest. Maybe he should not have drank at all and got into his vehicle, but at least he was not driving around the Sault looking to kill himself or someone else ... he was asleep.
Ski-Dude 11/4/2013 8:59:43 AM Report
Ridiculous waste to time and resources. This charge has the intention of what?
roxxyroller 11/4/2013 9:07:45 AM Report
MarcHandthefunkybunch -- it states that he had a small amount of pot on his person. Big deal. They should be out walking the streets arresting hookers who are needle crazy and the sellers and pushers dealing with the hard crap. Coke, crack, heroin, pills, etc. Last I heard, Mary-Jane always was basically harmless.
missmoniepennie 11/4/2013 9:12:34 AM Report
Ridiculous waste of time and resources? Its not as if they went on a man hunt looking for him. It was called in to the police that someone was passed out or asleep, when they arrived is when they discovered and charged the man. What you would be complaining that the cops weren't doing their job if they didn't go out and check and the man died for whatever reason. It seems like the cops can never get it right either they aren't doing their jobs or they are wasting the resources. The fact if this man broke the law, with drugs and with being in the vehicle behind the wheel and intoxicated. Doesn't matter if you are asleep, if you are behind the wheel while intoxicated you have intent at some point to drive. You either drove drunk to get where you are or chances are you will still be over the legal limit when you do choose to drive. Personally I think the police made the right decision. Lets say they didn't arrest him and later he woke up and decided drive and killed someone, then the people who are currently thinking the police wasted their resources arresting him would be screaming that the police didn't do their job.
crashed13 11/4/2013 9:12:47 AM Report
I take it that sleeping under the car would be perfectly ok?
Can you sleep in a motor home which has the driver's seat right there while drunk? If so what's the difference?
sinikka 11/4/2013 9:13:41 AM Report
Waste of resources indeed and the police officer that lays a charge to someone sleeping in a car while intoxicated has to pat himself on the back. Suppose I own a motorhome and park it in the walmart parking lot overnight . Does that also mean I can't drink because it is a motor vehicle and the keys are in my pocket. This is an abuse of justice imho and that does nothing to keep the public safe. Did the police charge the delta because more than likely he got drunk there. Try solving some of the real crimes in this city instead of this crap.
25miller 11/4/2013 9:16:56 AM Report
It was cold that night so maybe he was in the drivers seat with the car running for heat...means the car was running...
chrispoitras86 11/4/2013 9:17:33 AM Report
This law is ridiculous. No incentive for drunks to keep off the road. He has a choice of driving home and chancing getting caught or sleeping it off in his car and getting caught.
Now if he fell asleep in the driver's seat with the keys in the ignition, that's a different story. However this man was charged for being safe.
cheemo 11/4/2013 9:32:09 AM Report
The poor guy was probably just cold and wanted to sleep it off. If he was a drunk driver he would've been driving, not sleeping. I actually give kudos to him for making the most harmless decision possible.
missmoniepennie 11/4/2013 9:32:36 AM Report
Anyone drunk in a drivers seat of the vehicle deserves to be arrested parked or not. If your drunk you have no business behind the wheel of a vehicle even if it is off. you want to lay down leave your keys outside the vehicle climb in the backseat and curl up not behind the wheel and not with the keys in the car.
Ski-Dude 11/4/2013 9:34:18 AM Report
The charge is IMHO a waste! Not the due diligence of the officers.
asp 11/4/2013 9:38:16 AM Report
The point is he was so drunk, that he had to pull over to sleep. Too many people die, involving in drunk driviers. The police just need to be consistent with taken drinking and driving test maybe more charges would have result in saved lives in other accidents in this city. (the one on queen street, that killed that boy, imagine the lost that family feels)
Kevin5069 11/4/2013 9:56:15 AM Report
Makes even less sense than arresting the paddle boater for DUI. At least he was in a moving vehicle.
chrispoitras86 11/4/2013 9:59:50 AM Report
How do you know he had to pull over? Nowhere in the article does it state that he drove and pulled over to sleep, just that he was found sleeping in his car. Doesn't even say if he was in the driver's seat or not.
steve53000 11/4/2013 10:00:14 AM Report
@Marc he had a small amount of pot Hmmm what one roach major criminal here sleeping in his car in a parking lot sure seems like a WISE decision to me but who says cops are wise a lot are more crooked than the criminal element they are chasing
bugalugs 11/4/2013 10:02:42 AM Report
This guy did nothing wrong sleeping in his car! Charge him for the small amount of illegal marijuana, okay, it's illegal, but really there is much much bigger fish to fry in this town!
maltese 11/4/2013 10:06:09 AM Report
The police came out to check on this citizen (who could have just as well been dead behind the wheel)as they were asked to check it out. To Sinikka - I was at the Delta bar last night - no one there was drunk. To chrispoitras86 - the man had another choice - "phone a friend" or family member. To missmoniepennie - you are correct. He drove there from somewhere?? in his intoxicated state. He still could have killed someone. He must have been pretty drunk to have to pull over & sleep. Don't get me wrong - I'm happy that he did decide to pull over eventually. There are too many drunks behind the wheel in this city 24/7. The drunk that hit & totalled my car & changed my life did so at 2:30 on a sunday afternoon. By the way people, you can't drive when you are doing drugs either.
Snowdon 11/4/2013 10:24:09 AM Report
The law exists due to the risk of an intoxicated person losing their judgment and operating a vehicle they have care or control of. Ever been drunk? Ever made a dumb decision drunk? When you're intoxicated you don't always make the right decisions - this law is meant to avoid the possibility that a drunk person in a vehicle will drive the vehicle.
The person is only charged. They have the ability to rebut on the balance of probabilities.
I suggest reading a synopsis of a 2012 decision referenced here: http://www.yourbestdefence.com/legal-commentary/care-and-control-for-drinking-and-driving-offences/
HowAbooutSomeLogic 11/4/2013 10:36:32 AM Report
So Maltese are you saying you were 'bouncing' the Delta bar last night and were somehow determining blood alcohol levels as patrons departed on their merry way?
I really don't think you have enough information to assume this man got drunk, did 'drugs' while driving and decided to pass out in the Delta parking lot.
and to Snowdon, if you're familiar with that case then you know many additional facts were provided in that case not provided here.
We don't know this gentleman was in the driver's seat. We don't know that he consumed a large amount (or any amount) of alcohol.
...but I won't let these things stop anyone from making judgement against this man. Free will and all...
chrispoitras86 11/4/2013 10:44:37 AM Report
Where are you guys getting the info that he drove for a short while and pulled over?
His option to phone a friend or family member is irrelevant. Maybe he didn't want to bother them at such a late hour and decided to sleep it off in his car.
MarcHandthefunkybunch 11/4/2013 10:47:52 AM Report
Everyone assumes he was "sleeping it off"... What it sounds like is he passed out at the steering wheel with his car on. For him to be charged with that, the car would've had to be on....
And say what you want about pot, but it's an illegal DRUG that you can go to jail for. Law is the law, and it's an ILLEGAL drug... Despite what you hippies think...
Snowdon 11/4/2013 11:33:32 AM Report
I was not posting that case as a direct comparison to this case. Did I say I was? No. How about some logic? In fact, I did not even refer once to this person who has been charged or his particular fact scenario. If you want to use some logic, it would be a good time to start.
I posted that case as a background for posters to read about because in the comments above there appears to be a ton of confusion over what this law is and what it means to be charged.
That case provides the ELEMENTS of care and control of a vehicle that must be satisfied, what a realistic risk of danger is, and how that can be rebutted.
I have no idea where you got any other idea out of what I posted. It's unfortunate that you did, and doubly so considering your username.
Corr 11/4/2013 11:46:32 AM Report
The key words in this story are in the words they used to describe the charge, Care and Control, which means that he was not sleeping in the back seat, he was observed to be sleeping in the seat that controls the vehicle. The story also states that he was observed to have been "passed out". This tells me that he was noticed very easily by whoever it was that notified the police to this situation. Usually its very hard to notice someone sleeping in the back seat of a vehicle unless your right up close to it and peeking inside. The vehicle was operating, more than likely to provide heat for the drunkard who had enough senses to not operate his vehicle while in an inebriated state. All in all, yes he was responsible enough to not be driving but not smart enough to not get noticed, resulting in a concerned citizen notifying the police. Does he deserve to be bashed and ridiculed by local losers that have nothing better to do with their time but sit on their asses and judge others? The staff at sootoday certainly think so or else the comment section of this site would be disabled.
clyde705 11/4/2013 11:58:21 AM Report
poor bastard, some busybody just couldnt mind their own business, and had to call the cops... all this says is that it's worth it to take the chance driving home, cause your gonna get in sh*t either way. (i'm not saying drive, thats the message it sends tho)
Pakadeva 11/4/2013 12:06:08 PM Report
I agree with missmoniepennie & maltese.
If he were cognitive enough, he should have crawled in the back seat & maybe no one would have noticed him & not sure the charge could stick if he was laying in a back seat, rather than sitting in the drivers seat. I'm glad the Police did their job & that someone called in...they HAVE to check when they get a callin. More of us need to make these reports to save more little boys, girls, men, women from death or other harm of drunk/drinking drivers.
clyde705 11/4/2013 12:28:21 PM Report
lol, he wasnt driving, he was sleeping ffs.
cheemo 11/4/2013 12:32:20 PM Report
The poor bastard just wanted to sleep for a bit! Where was he supposed to sleep? On top of the car? Underneath the car? It cold out dammit! In what city do we live in where it's not against the law to freeze to death in November, or sleep in a car?
He was near a damn mall! A little kid could've came across his dead frozen body laying on the pavement all because some arbitrary law indicates that people can't sleep somewhere warm on a Saturday night?
We live in NORTHERN ONTARIO, people! I know this dude, and he'd never drink and drive. He just needed a warm place to crash so he didn't freeze to death!
Sam C 11/4/2013 12:41:24 PM Report
The law allows for the charge of "care and control" in a case like this, because he COULD wake up, turn the key, and drive away... regardless of his original intent (sleeping it off).
Typically, people who are found passed-out behind the wheel are just that -- passed-out.
sinikka 11/4/2013 1:04:14 PM Report
Care and Control of a motor vehicle while impaired by alcohol does not have to mean that the car was running or that he was in the driver's seat. And yes the guy could have been in the back seat passed out with his keys in his pocket and still get the charge which is more likely than not.This is the law in this great country. If he throws the keys outside of the vehicle and passes out drunk they cannot charge him. Sounds crazy does it not. To Maltese : the cops had another choice as well :How about giving the guy a ride home instead of charging him, like they do to minors who get caught breaking into my office.
iamtc 11/4/2013 1:18:01 PM Report
They caught cheech but now they have to get chong
WhoAreYou 11/4/2013 2:34:11 PM Report
A lot of you are making wild assumptions and are completely ignorant of the law. You do not have to be in the drivers seat, you do not have to show the intent of driving, nor do the keys have to be in the ignition or on for this charge to stick. This law is the most ridiculous thing our great courts have come up with. I have known people who have passed out in the back seat of a car who have been charged with this very law, just because the keys were somewhere in the vehicle. Worse yet, in one case the keys weren't even on said person, they were in a backpack on the floor. He still got charged with Care and Control. How is this law a fair law? By the way, the law is written so if you sleep in a motor home in a bed way in the back, if the keys are anywhere in the vehicle you can be charged as such. Guess according to most of you, none of us should drink while camping then, eh? Tell me, how many of you who say he was rightfully charged have been guilty of being in a camper or motorhome drunk?
Ski-Dude 11/4/2013 2:54:16 PM Report
He will get off or it will be dropped just like many others have. For giggles....ask a lawyer friend about this charge...I'm sure he/she will say prosecution success with this is slim to none.
BP7245 11/4/2013 2:59:46 PM Report
Highway Traffic Act of Ontario states that if you have the keys and are in the vehicle, you are in care and control of that motor vehicle, with intent to operate
asp 11/4/2013 3:02:46 PM Report
When somebody post a reponse why do people put them down. When growing my mother always told me to respect other opinion, but on this site someone is always putting someone down. (Even if I don't believe or agree with what thier saying)
BP7245 11/4/2013 3:02:47 PM Report
seems to me they were just doing a well being check at first
clyde705 11/4/2013 3:08:56 PM Report
most of them dont leave their parents basement, or wherever they are, i cant even read half of the stupid comments on here, they piss me off, lol. Like i said earlier, this law just makes people drive, cause you get in shit either way...
buddyjewel 11/4/2013 3:17:10 PM Report
Not commenting on the particulars of this specific story because some facts haven't been fully disclosed, however I don't understand how someone can be charged with the ASSUMPTION they MAY drive when found sleeping (past out) in a vehicle. Wouldn't it be the equivelance to arresting a known bank robber before an actual heist took place because he was simply standing outside of the bank?
fpreman 11/4/2013 4:18:08 PM Report
This random guy fell asleep in his car! Was he drinking and driving?The answer is NO.I would also like to say that calling weed "drugs" is hilarious.I don't smoke the stuff,however people putting weed in the same category as ectasy,acid, cocaine is a joke.Good job Jeff not driving your car and if you smoke a little weed who cares.It's legal in many US states of all places for a reason.I don't even smoke the stuff,just my thoughts.Until tomorrow folks when another dirtbag is caught.
I'm In 11/4/2013 5:43:41 PM Report
We slept in our motor homes drunk, parked @ the NASCAR RACE in Brooklyn Michigan, no charges, what a party.
riverman 11/4/2013 6:28:11 PM Report
The "care and control" charge has been on the books for decades. It serves a purpose-whether you armchair legal eagles agree or not. If this gentleman woke up and drove somewhere while still over the limit and injured himself or someone else, and you found out that someone had called the cops to alert them to his condition in advance of that happening and the police did nothing about it, every last one of you that have complained on this comment thread about the charge being unfair would instead be calling for the head of Chief Davies on a platter. And until the laws change about cannabis...sorry for your luck. You have to obey the law. That's all there is to it. And laws only change when people MAKE them change. In other words, be a responsible Canadian, vote and fight for what you believe in. If you all just shrug and think you can't make a difference you have only yourself to blame.
Ski-Dude 11/4/2013 6:34:11 PM Report
Wonder if the officers actually ensured that the keys he had on his person were the actual ones to start the car. Wonder if they kept those keys as evidence to prove so....so many ways to get off this. Poor dude made a good decision not to drive and only use his car for shelter now some damn lawyer is gonna benefit from a stupid charge. It's how one hand shake the other.
Beej 11/4/2013 7:17:28 PM Report
"Despite what you hippies think..."
thomas 11/5/2013 7:28:54 AM Report
We all know the smoking laws that people have to smoke outside. So, if you have a few drinks at a wedding, stag and doe, or some other function in cold weather and you smoke, you can't go keep warm in a running vehicle while you smoke?
This guy wasn't driving, probably just sleeping it off or trying to keep warm while he waited for a ride (being responsible)
This law is totally stupid and needs to be changed.
hardyguy33 11/5/2013 7:58:37 AM Report
u'd be singing a different tune if he actually tried to drive home and killed someone in your family.
who cares what the circumstance is... if you can afford to drink... you can afford a cab.
he was sitting behind the wheel of a running vehicle in the driver's seat passed out drunk.
stupid law? i don't think so. this is what is wrong with people in this city... defending people who clearly break the law and think it is okay
maltese 11/5/2013 10:19:55 AM Report
@HowAboutSomeLogic - & some of the other defending commenters - My friends & I went to the Delta for coffee(s) & appetizers after a movie. Then went home. Myself & my friends don't drink & drive. We designate a driver if someone wants to have alcohol. Taught my kids the same...call me ANYTIME of the nite if you need a ride home. Just don't drink & drive. Ever been hit by a drunk driver & have your car totaled, physio, chiro etc for five years??? Still not the same? I was his third victim. He got house arrest three 1/2 yrs later. Guess what?? He was caught impaired AGAIN less than a year later. Now he IS in jail. There are always choices - drinking & driving is not one of them. Ask the Lukenda family how it feels to have a family member taken away needlessly. Or is every negative responder defending this guy too? They should shut down this response site.