Teacher-government talks end. 'Strike actions' start Monday, November 12, 2012 by: SooToday.com Staff
ONTARIO SECONDARY SCHOOL TEACHERS' FEDERATION
OSSTF/FEESP begins strike actions November 12
TORONTO, ON (November 12, 2012) — After postponing sanctions for five days, Ken Coran, president of the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation, announced early this morning that discussions with the provincial government have ended without an agreement.
OSSTF/FEESO made the offer to continue talks in an effort to reach an acceptable agreement.
OSSTF/FEESO is open to further discussions at both the provincial and local levels; however, at this time, no further talks are scheduled.
As a result, OSSTF/FEESO members in the following school boards will commence strike action as of November 12, 2012:
• Bluewater District School Board (Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Brant Haldimand Norfolk Catholic District School Board (Early Childhood Educators, Educational Support Staff, Maintenance and Cleaners)Durham District School Board (Teachers and Occasional Teachers)Greater Essex County District School Board (Educational Support Staff, Professional Student Services Personnel, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)Halton District School Board (Office/Clerical/Technical, Professional Student Services Personnel, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Hastings and Prince Edward District School Board (Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Kawartha Pine Ridge District School Board (Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Lakehead District School Board (Early Childhood Educators, Educational Assistants, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Limestone District School Board (Teachers, Occasional Teachers and Professional Student Services Personnel)
• Niagara District School Board (Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Ottawa-Carleton District School Board (Early Childhood Educators, Educational Assistants, Office/Clerical/Technical, Plant Support Staff, Teachers, Occasional Teachers and Professional Student Services Personnel)
• Renfrew District School Board (Early Childhood Educators, Office Managers, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Superior Greenstone District School Board (Educational Support Staff, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Thunder Bay Catholic District School Board (Early Childhood Educators, Student Support Professionals and Student Services Personnel)
• Toronto District School Board (Teachers)
• Trillium Lakelands District School Board (Professional Student Services Personnel, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Upper Canada District School Board (Professional Student Services Personnel, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Upper Grand District School Board (Educational Assistants, Early Childhood Educators, Office/Clerical/Technical, Professional Student Services Personnel, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Waterloo Region District School Board (Educational Support Staff, Professional Student Services Personnel, Supervision Monitors/Cafeteria Assistants, Teachers and Occasional Teachers)
• Wellington Catholic District School Board (Early Childhood Educators, Educational Support Staff, Office/Clerical/Technical, Professional Student Services Personnel)
OSSTF/FEESO, founded in 1919, has 60,000 members across Ontario.
They include public high school teachers, occasional teachers, educational assistants, continuing education teachers and instructors, early childhood educators, psychologists, secretaries, speech-language pathologists, social workers, plant support personnel, university support staff, and many others in education.
kar81 11/12/2012 1:11:53 PM Report
Understand the situation, but its still not fair to our children....
Right Winger 11/12/2012 1:28:17 PM Report
Not fair to:
Our out of work paper makers
Our soon to be out of work Zeller's employees
Our Algoma Steel Pensioners whose pensions were lost in the past
Any of our out of work taxpayers
Our employed private sector workers without a pension
Our employed private sector workers who have had their wages freezed or lowered
Our employed private sector workers with no sick days and max 4 weeks holidays.
BellaLunaBoo 11/12/2012 1:58:05 PM Report
People may think that this strike isn't fair to the students but what the government is asking from the teachers is also unfair. Many of the teachers don't want to go on strike; going on strike means lost of income and money off their pensions, but they also want to protect their jobs and rights within their jobs aswell as the job for future generations (the students of today). Many teachers that have been in the system for 10+ years have already lost so many things that they were promised when they were first hired. How would you like it if your place of employment did that to you?
Right Winger 11/12/2012 2:05:44 PM Report
Happens every day in the real world.
As to lost pay, days lost are made up, so boom, no lost pay
Prrrrrrr 11/12/2012 2:09:45 PM Report
lol...pretty sure the children will love it! The parents might not be too happy;) Pray for snow, so they can go out for looooong breaks during their "home schooling" The ministry of ed has a great website for elearning...I think the government should buy all the children a laptop for Christmas!!! Just kidding folks...
Right Winger 11/12/2012 2:16:08 PM Report
Yes the kids will have a blast making up that time in June.
Meli_J 11/12/2012 2:16:16 PM Report
I can understand certain aspects of this, but enough is enough. Teacher's ALWAYS claim they are doing this for our children's sake, which, lets face it, is a bunch of BS. What they are really doing is holding our children's future hostage. I don't even believe it is the teacher's themselves, but their greedy union. I have several teacher's in my family, and each one of them HATE being put in this position. Especially since the extra curricular activities are their favourite part, and could care less whether they get reimbursed for it. Suck it up buttercup. Stop being so greedy and move on!!
atticus 11/12/2012 2:20:21 PM Report
To preface, teachers have my support ... they are not being treated fairly, or legally it would seem.
As to your other point, I joined my career 26 years ago. Upon enlistment, at my future scheduled top rate, seven or nine years in (I forget), I was destined to make the same wage as an entry level vice principal. Today I make at least $20 000 less than the close to top pay scale for a teacher. Teachers have done very well over the past two decades.
Welocme aboard 10 year teacher!!!
OMGWTF 11/12/2012 2:41:17 PM Report
If you didn't have a union you might be closer to the top end pay scale instead of being pigeon holed due to union agreements. Times change as does business and compensation since it reflects reality and today's reality is that there's no extra money to go around so quit asking for the impossible and get back to work since we are all paying your well earned salary wit our school taxes.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 2:44:28 PM Report
I want to see a teacher chime in and tell us all what it is that they have lost or what it was they were promised and didn't get. Then we will look at what teacher's have and compare that to similar jobs at that level. I'm interested to see the results - anyone else?
Zarm27 11/12/2012 2:48:22 PM Report
I pretty much take everything that's said with a grain of salt due to perspectives. Much has changed over the past 70 odd years, however siphoning resources from an economy still continues, just under another guise.
JediMindTrick 11/12/2012 2:49:19 PM Report
what I would like is an unbiased explaination of this entire scenario. no more teacher's union bulletins or government statements. I want to understand this fully and its extremly difficult with all of the accusations and blind attacks.
What are the EXACT and PRECISE points the Teacher's Union is opposed to?
atticus 11/12/2012 2:59:53 PM Report
I am not a teacher. Just doing a comparison. Believe me, I work.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 3:18:18 PM Report
I just read Bill 115 completely: http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bills_detail.do?BillID=2665
Most teachers or people against this bill have been complaining about not having the right to collectively bargain. If you read the bill it is only during the 2 year restraint period that the right to bargain will be limited. The purpose of this was to avoid a strike because of the other requirements of the bill.
The bill ask for a TEMPORARY wage freeze so that we can continue to provide good education and maintain smaller class sizes which in turns helps to employ more teachers. IMO this is totally acceptable - teachers have had unprecedented raises in the last 10 years - i'm pretty sure they can afford to maintain the same wage for 2 years. Heaven forbid!!
Also the bill removes the right to accumulate one's sick days over the entire span of their career. GOOD!! I'm sure most people would agree that it's absolutely LUDICROUS that an employee should be able to bank every sick they don't take until they retire. Basically what that means is that every teacher takes every sick day allotted to them every year. Why even call it sick time at that point?
I'm sure my writing this will draw the wrath of some teachers and other misguided individuals. You will say that I have something against teachers and that i'm not happy with my own job. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just believe, as most taxpaying citizens do and should, that we all have a stake in publicly funded jobs. It is our right and our responsibility to ensure everyone is treated fairly and no one is able to take advantage of the system.
greco1234 11/12/2012 4:11:18 PM Report
teachers are the biggest bunch of babies. They have 20 sick days, and almost 3 months off a year on top of that. you guys work a third of the year . cmon, and the ones who do the extra curricular things like sports enjoy doing it with out getting paid!!!
you get great pay and a great penion for going to school and playing with the kids.
KMF61MCF 11/12/2012 4:44:56 PM Report
The Teachers will Strike for 2 weeks and cave in like they did in the last strike. As soon as they miss one pay day they cave LOL
Aushlosh 11/12/2012 5:21:17 PM Report
Way to go Teachers! You have my full support!
Ricatoni 11/12/2012 5:37:56 PM Report
If you didn't have a union you might be closer to the top end pay scale instead of being pigeon holed due to union agreements. Times change as does business and compensation since it reflects reality and today's reality is that there's no extra money to go around so quit asking for the impossible and get back to work since we are all paying your well earned salary wit our school taxes.
OMGWTF:you seem to have a problem with wage increases? why is it you dont have a problem with the 30 million tax dollars wasted by the liberals over the last 8 years? is that ok as long as real working people dont get increases? This goverment is going to get what it deserves a gold plated pension but thats ok ehhh.Please before you people make comments about unions maybe you should understand what they are and how they work. But then again what are we to expect from critics who simply spew off at the lips without having any idea what the issues really are...This Liberal Goverment has know idea what they are doing, this why they all walked off the job couple of weeks ago, but hey thats ok right??? but nobody else can.... do as we say not as we do the liberal way...........LOL... Hypocrits sound familiar.... Believe me when I say I am glad to be in a union and these goverment morons are about to find out who really runs this country and it aint them!!!!!!!!!! All unions in Canada its time to Unite and shut this Province down its coming and you can thank the LIbs!!!!!!!!
MrTom 11/12/2012 5:40:30 PM Report
Just a few thoughts to keep in mind:
Teachers had already agreed to a wage freeze before Bill 115 - the government and media keep saying this action is over a wage freeze and it's just not true. It's a moot point and people need to move on from that.
I am sick of hearing that teachers get Christmas, March Break and summers off with pay. It is not with pay. Depending on the school board they may hold back 20% of your pay check to pay out during those periods - but they certainly do not get paid for that time. Is it a great benefit to being a teacher? Sure it is. If someone wants all that time off (without pay), all they have to do is become a teacher.
As for the sick days, did you know that teachers do not get the 4% vacation pay that everyone else is legally entitled to? Instead of receiving this, the unions and government negotiated the sick day banking (up to 200 days). This actually saves the government (and tax payers) money. But now not only do teachers not get vacation pay, they do not get their banked sick days either - and they can't even negotiate anything differently. Fair? I don't think so.
If you read the entire Bill 115, you will come across sections 14.1 and 15 which state basically that the Ontario Labour Board, arbitrators or any court cannot review or question any part of the Bill to see if it is constitutionally valid or is in conflict with the Human Rights Code. Does that not scare you at all? It sure scares me! What kind of precedent does this start?
BellaLunaBoo 11/12/2012 6:01:17 PM Report
Well said MrTom and Thank you!
Ricatoni 11/12/2012 6:02:24 PM Report
Mr. Tom excellent points.
Also something these non union people dont get is that sick time is short term disability, instead of STD you have sicks days...And one other thing these people dont get is everything a union member has the management has. And it is usually better then what the workers have.This is why unions are able to negotiate these terms. Its because they the management get the same and usually more...This Goverment pretty much has made the bed for all Ontario citizens, now everyone will pay the price including your kids. If you want to put the blame on someone. blame those that brought this on the Liberal Goverment!!!!
Ricatoni 11/12/2012 6:05:07 PM Report
My first comment should be 300 million wasted not 30 million I forgot a zero Its a liberal thing LOL......
KMF61MCF 11/12/2012 6:24:08 PM Report
Teachers are paid Salary so yes they do get paid for Summer and Christmas and March Break
andrews 11/12/2012 6:41:33 PM Report
Yeah the notion that they don't get paid for holiday is ridiculous. They're salaries workers. The reason they pay is done like that is to make it easier to calculate pay deductions should a teacher skip work too many times.
Also, if you don't count it as holiday time, that means a teacher earning $60,000 for nine months is earning per day the same amount that someone making $80,000 a year does. Seems high to me
speed7 11/12/2012 7:26:55 PM Report
3months off in the summer? Try a month
And a half maybel? Work ends end of june and resumes mid ausgust . BWWwHaHAHAHAHA!!!
Time to deflate the elephant in some of you notoriously misguided individuals in here.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 8:04:30 PM Report
MrTom: Section 14 states that the Labor board may not inquire into the fact that the act is in violation of human rights - it only refers to the act - obviously the bill was passed and from reading it myself I don't see anything that violates HUMAN rights - do you?
Also you can try and BS all you want about teachers not having paid vacation - teachers are paid a salary! A friend of mine makes 90k per year and has been teaching for roughly 10 years - I think it is fair to say that vacation is included in his salary. Obviously a teacher that is just starting out isn't going to be so well off but that goes the same with almost any job/career.
Speed 7: Okay so they get 1.5 months in the summer and also March break and Christmas break. Let's even put the estimate on the low side and say they get 8 weeks holidays a year from the time they start full time to the time they retire. That's pretty damn good!! What you don't seem to understand is that we aren't trying to say that teachers shouldn't have the summer off or shouldn't make good money - the public is upset that some teachers/the union are never happy with what they have!!
CLT 11/12/2012 8:09:50 PM Report
This should be real good, tell us, what do you do for a living?
KHL 11/12/2012 8:12:51 PM Report
Thank you, Mr Tom. I am a teacher. I held down full time jobs during my university years and a part-time job during my teacher's college training while making 90 % across the board and volunteering my time. I still incurred close to $ 40 000 worth of student loan debt. Since becoming a teacher, I have held down a full-time job and a part-time job in order to pay down that debt, to buy a car and purchase a house. Include in that the over $ 1200 a year that I spend in my classroom (I keep every receipt) which includes buying students winter clothes, boots, etc. I spend my VERY hard earned money in our community. Should I become ill, I will no longer be spending my money as there just won't be a lot of extra which will affect others. I also think very hard now about the amount of time that I volunteer after a parent shared that she was upset that should would have to find a babysitter for the extra hour after school. In 9 years of teaching, I have had only 1 thank you for coaching or doing an extra-curricular.The assumption that I should have to give up time with my own family is ridiculous. Yes, I like to coach and do those extra things but I am also enjoying the time that I have been able to spend with my family since taking a pause. I am not your babysitter and if you think that I am then do the math. Babysitters get paid per child. I have 26 kids in my room at 7 hours a day at $20 an hour. This equals much more than I make in a year. I teach your kids how to read and become functioning human beings. I pick lice, I show kids how to brush their teeth (after buying them the toothpaste and brush). I also get the fun task of reporting abuse and neglect to CAS. If all the individuals on here think it is such an easy job or that being a professional means that I should have to work for less than what my education has provided me, please, I will help you fill out that Teacher's College application. I also worked in a union before becoming a teacher and I still believe that my right to collective bargain has been taken away. And if you are so naive as think that this is a 2 year pause, then I would like to live in your world. The government has made it clear that it will most likely extend longer. I doubt that this government will be re-elected when it comes to realize that it is made a large majority of its educational staff including custodians, EA, teachers and even some administration very angry. I vote EVERY time. I wonder how many on here do.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 8:16:21 PM Report
My real name is Heisenberg and I run a meth lab for a guy named Gustavo Fring. I make fat stacks of cash which I have buried in the crawl space underneath my house.
CLT 11/12/2012 8:20:43 PM Report
You must be a very proud person/parent.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 8:26:27 PM Report
That is great that you take the extra time to help your students - you do seem like a real selfless person and I commend you for that.
BUT I really don't see how you can only be making $20/hour after 9 years of teaching. I will refer to this article on CBC that states that the minimum STARTING salary for a teacher is: "teachers currently have a starting wage of between $41,766 and $44,292."
Link to the article:
It also states this: "The sick-day payment at retirement averages about $46,000 per teacher."
How is that you only make $20 an hour
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 8:29:29 PM Report
CLT: Tell what ... why dont you put in your opinion instead of trolling - this should be real good. :-O
CLT 11/12/2012 8:50:02 PM Report
its simple PlasmaX, I'm on the teachers side.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 9:01:37 PM Report
CLT: Well then - you win! I cant possibly hope to argue against someone of your obvious intelligence. :p
KHL 11/12/2012 9:05:51 PM Report
My point is that if I were to babysit 26 students for 7 hours a day and were paid the going rate per student of $ 20, I would make far more money. I will also share that I know teachers who are in their first year of teaching and are on the 2nd pay scale who are not making close to your numbers. In fact, one teacher was making more money at her hourly job. And since Bill 115 has frozen the pay grid - meaning they won't make higher wages for two years, these teachers will struggle to pay down debt loads and they don't have much extra to spend in our community. That affects us all. The other teaching staff and educational assistants that I work with are dedicated individuals who are looking to have their skills, education and professionalism recognized through the right to collectively bargain. Freeze my wages and cut my sick days, I will make it work but I am angry that this current government believes that forcing education staff to just take what the government thinks is best. I am not sure why it was gleamed over that Mr. McGuinty gave his government a raise just days after signing Bill 115.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 9:20:04 PM Report
KHL: I didnt know the going rate of babysitting was $20 per hour per child - I suspect it is much lower than that. Also are these friends of yours only supply teaching or teaching part time? That is the only way that they would be making a lower wage. I also have friends that are teachers so i'm not about to believe that. Do you think it is different for people that are starting out in other careers? I think not.
Lastly the bill doesn't state anything about sick time being taken away from teachers. It just removes the right to bank your sick time year after year. Sick days are to be used when you are actually sick not for a $46,000 bonus when it comes time to retire!
speed7 11/12/2012 9:35:48 PM Report
Then I suggest you try teaching. YOUR POINT and yourSense of enritlement IS OBSURD. DO YOU REALIZE how misguided you are? I'M GLAD OTHER teaches came in to deflate your flammatory statements. Your comments were reguarding sick days and bill 115 now you hop one the vacation days band wagon. Keep spreading. The BS. No one is listening anyway.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 9:43:54 PM Report
My sense of entitlement? Please read all my remarks and tell me one statement i made that gives me "a sense of entitlement"??? The funny thing is it's the people arguing for the teachers that feel they are entitled - i've been arguing against that.
I have stated facts and provided reference to them yet you and a couple others completely ignore that and instead post a whack load of double-talk and expect others believe it.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 10:00:36 PM Report
Speed7: BTW I can only pray that my kids never have to be taught by you. I've seen better spelling, basic grammar and sentence structure from a 10 year old.
speed7 11/12/2012 10:05:19 PM Report
Looks like the elephant has been deflated for a little while anyway. SNORT! "-0
little lulu 11/12/2012 10:05:23 PM Report
Plasmax....ding...here's the teacher chiming in! I have a challenge for you....Go spend 1 week in a school following a teacher around and performing the same duties.....it may fill up your time and actually make you somewhat productive rather than a venom spewing liberal lover.....oh and please come back once this challenge is complete and let us know how much disrespect you hold for teachers since you will actually have some real life experience to back up your hatred...not just government facts and "unbiased" media outlets
speed7 11/12/2012 10:08:17 PM Report
IM NOT A TEACHER ? SNORT!
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 10:13:52 PM Report
Venom Spewing Liberal Lover ... hmmm ... who's talking about hatred? Funny that if you go back and count the people that are against teacher's striking that posted in this article you will see that there are more of them than for it. I guess we are all venom spewing liberal lovers. If you really read my posts you would see that I do not at all hate teachers. I simply argued that there are a few and the union that will always take advantage. As I've said before in other articles many times I have family that teaches and friends and interestingly enough they are totally against striking. It is people like you that try and twist words and facts until everyone who disagrees with you is evil. Reminds me of the republicans in the U.S.
PlasmaX 11/12/2012 10:14:36 PM Report
Speed7: THANK GOODNESS!!
speed7 11/12/2012 10:40:21 PM Report
Go spew your venom. Karma is a beauti_ful phenomenon.
little lulu 11/12/2012 11:37:17 PM Report
so what do you say to my challenge? I think you just like to argue....I am not hateful of anyone, just of ignorant, useless statements....human rights are being stripped....rights that have taken decades to achieve....if you want a dictatorship, I can recommend a few countries where you would probably fit right in!
PlasmaX 11/13/2012 12:24:08 AM Report
I say your argument is one of somebody who always has somebody else to blame. According to your words our government is wrong, the media is biased, the other posters are wrong. I'm sure you can find a scapegoat for everything. Did you even read all the previous posts I made? Do you fully understand the bill? Human rights are not being stripped - the bill said that the content of the bill can not be accused of as a violation of human rights and if you read the bill you can see that no human rights are being stripped.
I do not just like to argue - I stated my opinion and backed it up with facts. I have walked the proverbial mile in another man's shoe. I've worked in many different industries in my life: cleaning floors at department stores, installing drywall and insulation, painting, landscaping, tutoring students, retail sales, clerk at a Mac's, summer student in at a jail and now in my career in the IT sector as an IT professional. My salary is comparable to that of a teacher so please don't try and claim that i'm disgruntled that teacher's make more money because it wouldn't be true. You are the one boasting about how hard a teacher works and I have no doubt that most teachers work very hard. I find it ignorant that you can make assumptions that I have not worked hard and need to "follow" a teacher around to see what it's all about.
Did you not realize that I probably went to school from kindegarten up through OAC and after that through University? I fully realize a teacher's role and responsibility and nothing I have said condemns that in any way. In fact I have said things on here that shows I have respect and support the fact that teachers should make good money and have a good pension for the work that they do.
I am not going to re-iterate the points I have made prior to this posting for this article - feel free to read them and complain as you will. I have stated facts that you and a couple others on here have carefully avoided responding to - why? Because you have no response other than to sidestep and call me a a venom spewing liberal lover. LOL! You say that you challenge me - well tell you what sport i'm going to ask you a question and try to answer me straight up.
Do you think that teachers should have a right to bank 200 days worth of sick time and get paid out for it when they retire?
Everyone else that supports the strike won't answer this - they just say "they are trying to take away our sick time!" This is not true of course - just take away the privilege of banking sick time. So answer the question.
speed7 11/13/2012 12:38:22 AM Report
In retrospect... lucky you dont teach yourself. My kid would be whipped out of class if that were the case. I was typing on my smartphone so yes I make typos. SO WHAT. Sometimes my statements are a little rushed SO WHAT.
What an example you would be as a teacher? I have realatives who are teachers too. I dont know who your relatives are? But I am willing to bet your sources are teachers with high levels of signority and have the full salary and benefits packages and pension plans. Or probably already retired. What would you do if your employer came to you and told you you will loose some or your pension benefits and you will have to make that up by working an extra amount of years. I bet you would be pretty concerned. You cannot compare to today. You are biased by your relatives who are probably principles or with the board. I realize the salaries for those people are great! But they are not unionized. I dont think you have any clue. Lu Lu is right the proof is in the pudding. You like to talk down to everyone. If my child was in class and you talked to him or her like that, I`d complain till they fire you! And as you probably already have figured out yourself teaching required patience and compassion. You dont have any of those so dont bother taking on the challenge of becoming one. It`s definately not for you.
PlasmaX 11/13/2012 12:52:45 AM Report
Speed7: Where in the bill does it talk about pension benefits being taken away? I have the same pension plan as teachers do (OMERS) and it is doing quite well. I'm not talking down to you - i'm just contracdicting your facts - what do want me to do - roll over and say you are right? - when you actually are wrong? The teachers that I know range from being supply teachers to teachers that are close to retirement - so again you are making assumptions that are completely false.
I never once said I would be a good teacher. This is a forum for opionion and debate, that's all.
speed7 11/13/2012 1:59:00 AM Report
Ask your teacher friends if you want to know for sure. Bill 115 is a sneaky underhanded peice of legislation and that is a fact! I might not have all the words and jargon right but I know what I say is right. I dont want you to roll over and say that I am right. I have pretty tough skin. Lucky that i never listen to people like you. I know what I am capable of. I dont need anyone to define me.
Zarm27 11/13/2012 6:53:50 AM Report
Dead horses being kicked repeatedly as usual, the only one with proper debating etiquette would be PlasmaX.
Also, speed7, a personal opinion is not a fact.
Meli_J 11/13/2012 10:10:07 AM Report
Some of you are speaking as though we begged these people to become teachers. We didn't, and if teacher's consider it 'babysitting' then they shouldn't be teachers. They make way more money than I make (and I work just as hard with far less time off) and have far more perks in their jobs. Must be nice to constantly hold the threat of a strike over everyone's head. But I will say that there are some excellent teachers out there who take their jobs very seriously and deserve every cent they make
speed7 11/13/2012 11:17:26 AM Report
zarm the whole time that people post with there own twisted lies about teachers I have corrected it. They've come in themselves to rienforce it with facts. I am not a union expert. Nor do I have very good political speaking skills but Everything I have said was right on. Your defending plasma shows your character in here. You both sound like a bunch of babies. Cant take it when some one is right. Too Bad. You'll live. grow up!
sunshine 11/13/2012 11:39:03 AM Report
There is no sense trying to defend my chosen profession of teaching on this blog. THe issue is not how much money teachers make or how much time off we have. We could debate that forever and there will always be those who choose to bash teachers. I can only say, don't pass judgement until you've walked a mile in a teacher's shoes.
The issue has never been about the money. Our own MPP even refuses to acknowledge that fact in his recent press release. He said that if teachers would only regognize that a wage freeze was a fair and reasonable approach, we would be able come to agreements. Bill 115 strips our collective rights. It gives our government ultimate power to make changes that are even above our laws and Human Rights Code. It effectively takes away our voices and our rights.
It is very scary stuff and we need to pay attention to what this government is trying to do. If we don't collectively stand up to this bully, it will target every other public servant in Ontario.
Let's be clear. Teachers are generally law abiding, rule following citizens. Many of us are out of our comfort zone with this. But we understand the impact this may have. We are choosing to stand up for what is right.
sunshine 11/13/2012 11:41:21 AM Report
Sorry for the typo...recognize
speed7 11/13/2012 12:03:15 PM Report
Meli Teachers dont consider it babysitting but parents do. Then people like you continually complain about how they have the month and half off during the summer. What would you supposed they have for vacation time then?
People like Plasma cant even agree with things I say because he keeps having to spend time going nack an fourth to his teachers sources and then coming back to me. Teachers have showed up in here set him straight and to correct him an he just keeps up with it. They have told him to stop spreading BS around. I have to say he is very persistant. Some of his teacher sources are already retired and they have all the benefits, they havent been affected By any of the union changes and government intervention. That's why he cant come back to me and rebuttle. Watch now he will come in and call me stupid, hatchett up my comments. Make me feel like I dont know anything. Guaranteed! What I say is correct. I'm not going into particulars. Maybe a teacher can come in an do that for him? He sure is just Hell bent on sabatoging teachers. His Personal Opinions ARE NOT FACTS EITHER! Do some of you not read the teachers comments in here or are you just skipping those to fuel your fire.
speed7 11/13/2012 12:20:34 PM Report
Fact: OMERS Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System
Meli_J 11/13/2012 1:45:30 PM Report
Speed, you don't know the first thing about me or my views, so back off. I didn't say they shouldn't have summers off, and you conveniently missed the part where i said that there are some great teachers. Believe me, if I didn't have a job, i would gladly home school my children, I take education very seriously. Let people speak their opinions without jumping down their throats.
cooker_eh 11/13/2012 1:50:39 PM Report
PlasmaX is wrong in at least one fact and I'm sure many more if I had more time and desire to read the drivel. Sick days that have already been accumulated by teachers have absolutely been taken away. <- FACT.
Plasma really has nothing better to do than argue, it doesn't even matter what the topic is. You really should have been a lawyer, you are very good at it. <- not a compliment.
PlasmaX 11/13/2012 2:04:28 PM Report
Cooker Eh: I only comment on very few articles that are posted on SooToday - feel free to check that for yourself. I came forward with facts from professional sources and a couple people on here decided to insult me and say that i'm just trying to argue. It's funny though that the majority of the posters have the same or similar view that I have on this topic. Again feel free to do a tally of the for and against and you will see (this one's for Speed7) "the proof is in the pudding" lol.
Speed7: I would compare debating with you to playing a game of chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious.
PlasmaX 11/13/2012 2:08:57 PM Report
In case you are confused: You are the pigeon in the analogy
Meli_J 11/13/2012 2:11:22 PM Report
you just made me laugh harder than I have in a long time with that pigeon analogy. Thanks you!!!! I have to remember that!!
Zarm27 11/13/2012 3:27:38 PM Report
lol Plasma, that was the first time I've read that analogy, and it was dead on. I'm now wondering if it'll fly over it's head. o.o
cooker_eh 11/13/2012 3:29:43 PM Report
You should check your sources then because your stated fact is incorrect.
I too like the pigeon quip. Never heard that one before but it is funny.
speed7 11/13/2012 3:55:24 PM Report
My analogy of you plasma is the rooster crooning over the entire pen full of hens... only the hens solely concentrate on popping out eggs instead of listening to you! I guess the only way to speak with you is to prentend to be deaf dumb and blind. Same results in the end... a bunch of crooning with no forethought or destination. Worry about your OMERS and keep your crooner attitude in check why dont you? Your ear bleeding croons are getting old.
!@# 11/13/2012 3:57:17 PM Report
Okay Everyone...the truth
Don't make it sound like teachers get summers, march break, etc off....KIDS GET IT OFF!! because kids get it off we do...not the other way around. Also, why compare teacher to the lowest common denominator (if you know what that is)...call my doctor works for 3 out of 7 days, call my politician...works 2 days a week and every holiday off, call my lawyer...he's never there, secretary takes the call and charges me $300 an hour, police and firefighters work 4 days on and 4 days off...that's 1/2 the year!!!!! (6 months off - if you couldn't do that calculation)...so please stop with the amount of time teachers have...they have because students do!!
Wages - charge a teacher babysitting for every students per hour and they should be getting $300,000 a year...I think we do more than baby sit!!
I can go on.....
speed7 11/13/2012 7:30:03 PM Report
plasma your memory seems to be running short these days? You said you've only posted a few times on sootoday. Wrong. You chime in often especially when its a topic about teachers. Check your memory. In fact last time I told you not to post sabatoge remarks about teachers. Your days of demeaning people with your condescending cruel comments are numbered in here. Dont ask me to show you them to you either. If you cant remember too bad cause I do! I have copies of all the mean posts calling every human bieng in here unintelligent just because they dont agree with your points. I suggest you vacate and leave your pride behind you. If you are a retired city employee good for you! Its pretty sad that you are solely amused by coming in here and picking on people on an ongoing basis . This must be my third warning. Calling me a pigeon. Does that make you feel better by be-littling people? You are a Sadist. Whatever teachers have done to you in the past to deserve your venemous treatment of them? I think your retirement days could be spent a little more productively? You seem to think your smarter than the rest of all of us. Please dont cry back about how you never stated that... you dont have to, its all obvious. The writing is on the wall with you. Now i get compared to a srutting Pigeon in your posts! Watch out. Do not tempt me. I have had enough of your bantering. I hope soo today moderators are reading this. I have copies on my computer of past posts as well? Every one! Drop it if you know whats good for you.
speed7 11/13/2012 8:05:34 PM Report
Meli, I do see that you awknowleged that some teachers are dedicated people. At least you realize that? Sorry for my comments earlier. I wasnt trying to shove anything down your throat. Did you read Plasma;s comments back to me? A dumb pigieon craping on a chess board strutting like i was victorious. Well see how victorious I am with all this blantant bullying
KHL 11/13/2012 8:11:08 PM Report
Plasma X - I am well aware of the going rate for a solid, responsible caregiver for daytime hours. A teenage babysitter who will watch your kids during the evening runs at $12 - $15 but the hourly rate increases for daytime hours. The teachers in question are rated at an A2 category with zero years of experience as they are just out of teacher's college. The number that you speak of is for an A3 or A4 scaled teacher which means that teacher probably took extra courses or has an Honours or Master's degree. As well, yes, sick days have been taken away. We had 20 and now we have 10. That is called subtraction. In lower grades, it is often termed "taking away".
KHL 11/13/2012 8:17:27 PM Report
Sunshine, you are correct. I am seeing myself get sucked into the money debate. I taught and made sure my students were safe and warm today. I know that I did my job today and I am proud. Bill 115 means so much more to everyone in the public sector. I support my union and the other unions in their fight for democracy. Ms. Broten believes she has dictatorship power and she and the other liberals will find themselves out of work soon enough.
sunshine 11/13/2012 9:59:32 PM Report
Check out stopbill115.ca for the facts.
Zarm27 11/14/2012 12:02:39 AM Report
I wonder how much the union paid to hire Smith Roberts Co Ltd., the register.ca domain was only $29.95 though so not too bad for tax payers.
If that's incorrect idc, it's bedtime lol.
PlasmaX 11/14/2012 1:20:13 AM Report
KHL: The going rate for a teenage babysitter is 12-15 an hour? What world are you living in? Minimum wage in Ontario is $10.25/hour yet all of a sudden teenage babysitters make more than minimum wage? I can see them making that much if it is someone that does it professionally - but do you really think that a 15 year old babysitter should get $100 for watching a kid(s) while their parents go to a wedding? Also didn't you state earlier that the going rate was $20/hour - you are starting to sound like Mitt Romney.
Also the "number I spoke of" referred to a salary range that would be commensurate with experience/and/or qualifications - the low point of the range for STARTING teachers being $41,766.
Lastly the sick days - do you feel that you need 20 sick days a year? Most steel plant workers get 3 the last time I checked - anything after that is not paid. I've heard arguments that say that teachers are exposed to more viruses and ailments than other careers - this may be true - BUT let's take for example the steelworkers that are exposed to extreme temparatures, chemicals, and sometimes very poor working conditions. They get by...
10 sick days is still a lot and unless you have some type of condition that requires more than that then no more should be alloted.
Yes I will agree that things are being taken away from you but ask yourself this: Was it fair that you were playing by a different set of rules then other hard working Ontarians? Was it fair that the people should have to pay more taxes, especially in a time of world economic troubles so that you could have these privileges? Answer that question please
PlasmaX 11/14/2012 1:36:53 AM Report
Speed7: Sigh ... honestly if you feel that i'm abusing these forums then just click on that "Report" link that you see beside every post. Send them your evidence that you've been collecting on me. I'm 100% certain that any moderator will be slightly embarassed for you. What cruel and venomous comments have i made? All i did was disagree with you and back up my opinions - you are the one insulting me constantly and making all these assumptions about me - which are 99% incorrect. You have made yourself look foolish and really .. the cliches are getting old. You remind me of Skeletor from the old He-Man cartoons ... i'm waiting to hear the line "I'll get you next time HE-MAAAUUUN!"
Zarm27 11/14/2012 6:25:30 AM Report
Eternia has taken a turn for the worse.
The question I haven't seen answered on the comments on any of the previous articles on this topic, is why they believe having the ability to hold a country hostage is necessary when their contract is the best in the country. There are other jobs that would be more deserving of better contracts based on the taxpayers funds. I mentioned the Ontario Nurses Association on a different article, where they're subjected to a potentially much more hazardous working environment. Although in regards to them, I've seen maturity and consideration for the citizens who require medical services.
I don't personally cry over spilled milk, so it's not as if I'm saying to obliterate what they already have been given. However, I would prefer that they just accept what they've been given and focus on their job. I believe that it's a required service, and as such I'll admit there are some great teachers out there. Although IMO the union is focusing on maximizing it profits, since it can be considered a company of its own.
speed7 11/14/2012 9:19:03 AM Report
No they are not embarrased for me. You think what you say is funny laughter at my expense. but its acutally insulting. You think its not understood what you are really saying when you compare me to a pigeon. Getting otgher posters to agree with you. WOW! not only are you mean but very clever and resourcefull and seem to take pleasure in degrading people but you do realize that behaviour is phychologically disturbing!! That is how is makes me feel .What is your problem? Your facts are wrong. People come in to straighten you out and still its like talking to you throught thick glass wall. You choose not to listen. Your sill coming up with words like FACT this FACT that! Dont you see other posters responding to you or perhaps you need glases? Why do you obviously hate teachers so much? You never really awnser that question when its posed to you. Do you?
PlasmaX 11/14/2012 12:17:07 PM Report
Speed7: Honestly you are completely RIDICULOUS - I have answered that question - I do not dislike or hate teachers! The fact that you are constantly trying to paint me with that is insulting and way off base. So in your eyes, everybody that supports bill 115 or at least is against the teacher's striking must hate teachers? The world is not a black and white place like you see it. I support the governments actions to reduce our debt, decrease the inflation of our taxes and to make sure that employment benefits are FAIR!! I'm not even a big supporter of this current government so don't paint with some political term as well. My facts came from a) the government website and b) CBC.ca - so if you think they are wrong then you should go post your nonsense on their websites.
Let's put this into perspective for you - Let's say you worked a job where you had equal seniority, equal qualifications and you did the exact same work as another employee. But said other employee received 10 more sick days a year and got a bonus at the end of every year. Also your peformance reviews were identical. This is just an example to prove a point. Now let's say that the company decided to take away the employee's bonus and extra 10 sicks days - not because they were punishing the employee - but because they realized that there was no good reason that the employee should have the extra benefits over others in the company and because it was costing the company to much money. Because of this that employee becomes irate and starts taking actions to fight it. You are given the chance to voice your opionion about the situation - what do you say? If you disagree with the other employee trying to fight the company action does that mean that you HATE the other employee?
Now obviously this example isn't perfect but I think it gets the point across.
Like i said before - instead of complaining that i'm degrading you and insulting you - PLEASE hit that report link and let the moderator decide. I actually want you to!
speed7 11/14/2012 12:49:23 PM Report
No, I think I'll let the process pan out with you. Do not respond to my posts if you do not like me put a lid on it!