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What causes downtown crime? Bob Davies hopes to find out

Friday, September 28, 2012   by: Darren Taylor

Sault Ste. Marie Police Service Chief Bob Davies says he will seek federal government funding for a program that would help identify and address the causes of crime in the downtown area.

After Thursday’s Police Service Board meeting, Davies told SooToday.com he was disappointed Sault Police Service’s request for $68,000 in provincial funding for the program was turned down by the Ontario Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Davies said the request came close to approval, “but didn’t quite fit the province’s criteria.”

“We thought it was a great idea, we were hoping to start the program in the spring of 2013,” Davies said.

Davies said Sault Police Service will now apply for federal government funding, adding that the deadline for applying is toward the end of October.

“There is federal money available,” he stated. “We still might be able to salvage this program for spring of 2013, or move our timeline back, but we want to get at [the application process] right away... We thought it was a great idea, it would have an effect on crime, not just enforcement.”
 
“We want to team up with Algoma University’s Community, Economic and Social Development program and have the students in that program gather information about crime in the downtown area, the reasons for crime in that area, gathering stories of personal experiences and bring all of that back and have a workshop,” Davies explained. “We would present that information to all the social agencies that have an interest in this, like the school boards, Canadian Mental Health Association, Women in Crisis, about 30 agencies which we think work with pieces of the overall problem downtown, and come up with an action plan.”
 
“It’s a two year program to address the root causes of why we see people on the street, why they are unemployed, why they’re homeless, why they’re roaming the street at night,” Davies said. “The big problem we have is the the overall crime downtown, the depressed condition of the downtown core which results in a lot of smash and grabs out of cars.  We get a lot of complaints from merchants at the mall and doctors’ offices where there are patients and customers who have had their cars broken into for petty items to convert to cash.”

“We get complaints about mischief in the area - notably the prostitution recently - and last year on a grander scale, the four homicides we had in one area, so we’re getting a significant amount of crime in that area of our community compared to the rest of our community."
 
“We want to address this.”
 

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mr_jmac 9/28/2012 10:15:49 AM Report

You need a program to figure out the answer to this question?

There is a program it is called the Census. And it confirms that the average income in the downtown area is the lowest in the city. There is your answer.
riverman 9/28/2012 10:20:01 AM Report

Drugs.
groundspeed 9/28/2012 10:29:23 AM Report

Drugs, lack of jobs, lack of education, poor upbringing. There, now spend the money on addressing those issues.
Stevie-E 9/28/2012 10:35:25 AM Report

Spend the money on buying up all the dilapidated houses and get the scummy people out, put them to work cleaning up the downtown area so we can revive it.

People on welfare, "unemployment" and other social assistance programs should be put to work for the city if they are healthy and do not have any dependents to care for!(ie. children, etc.)

People that fall into the above category shouldn't be allowed to sit at home all day (I don't care if you paid EI while you had a job, so do we!), they should be provided meaningful labour in exchange for their EI/Welfare cheques. It keeps them active, allows for new skills to be developed, and out of trouble.

The answer is right in front of us, let's just ask the right questions, not the obvious ones.
Beej 9/28/2012 10:44:31 AM Report

The funding was denied.
It's not going to happen.
It was a ridiculous request.
The answers are obvious.
Come up with something worthwhile next time.
TankGirl 9/28/2012 10:50:55 AM Report

How is it even a question?

Your answers Mr Davies...

* The Economy being so weak and lack of jobs causes people to turn to drugs/theft/abuse

* The fact this city has neglected the downtown both regarding business and homes thereby attracting the "undesirables" to that area of town

* The businesses that are left get roadblocks courtesy of complainers/council. (Noise by laws are the most recent problem) The more action and people downtown at night, the less likely people are to be robbed/beaten so we should be supporting bars/bands/etc.

* Lack of agencies/shelters and more to help those we have let fall through the cracks

There are more answers and the solutions are pretty simple. We aren't the first city to have these problems and sadly won't be the last.
oldawg 9/28/2012 11:16:44 AM Report

Triple the police presence in the downtown area - then you will have to have a study investigating the sudden rise of crime in the east, west and north parts of the city.
Barf breath 9/28/2012 11:18:51 AM Report

crime can be fun, negleted youth have to do something....
BigDaddy 9/28/2012 11:20:10 AM Report

Perfectly said TankGirl!
speed7 9/28/2012 11:26:48 AM Report

I'll save you 68 grand. How about we provide some Good paying jobs here, do not pass that stupid noise by law. Maybe Mr Davies can round up a whole round of undercover officers to catch the hookers and druggies throw them out for good. There are only a few small places for kids to go hangout there. That by law will kill things altogether. Some sprucing up could help. Especially with the historical buildings they can use some decorating to point out their historial significance. The only other example I can think of is how they do it in petoskey and traverse city. Very pretty signs all over that is eye candy for visitors. If our downtown looked like that it would be beautiful. Just my opinion of course. Spending money on studies is'nt cutting it anymore. It get us nowhere basically.
Wisenheimer 9/28/2012 11:34:06 AM Report

The Police Chief's pay scale should let him figure this out all by himself. The answer is probably politically incorrect, so let someone else break the news. Failing that, call Rudy Giuliani ..he had the same problem, just a bigger city.
Dictionary 9/28/2012 11:37:19 AM Report

It's this mysterious thing called "poverty" that many of us have been screaming about for years.
Dictionary 9/28/2012 11:38:56 AM Report

and a raging drug problem!
tcowen 9/28/2012 11:39:16 AM Report

They keep passing that same report around different tables and presenting it to themselves as if they just discovered the problem..

The Informatics Institute at Algoma University was already given a research grant, that would include parameters involving crime, mental illness & addictions.

Mr Davies needs to stop resisting the questions he was being asked & get back to the table..

You can't change the statistics by writing your own paper & submitting it to agencies who can do nothing about the problem, we've been doing that for too many years.

thumbs4208 9/28/2012 11:49:39 AM Report


So many good points - the City Counsel should address the noise ban - the lack of activity downtown - poverty,drugs and lack of work.
Myself I think it would be a great idea to put people to work when colletcing EI/or welfare - if they are able to, for the obvious reasons.
Sofahorse 9/28/2012 11:52:10 AM Report

the reason why downtown is the way it is, is because the police chief has to spend money to figure out why his department is failing miserably at keeping law and order in this town. I have never heard of so many home invasions in my life. I had a knife fight happen in front of my house in broad daylight and the cops never ended up coming after two neighbors called the police.

We have called police to come take care of used needles in our yards because of the crack house two doors down. Nothing happend.

and another good reason why downtown is so bad now is maybe because they can all lineup on the corner of queen and get their fix everyday for free then leave high as a kite to do whatever it is they do all day.
GoulaisMa*Pa 9/28/2012 12:02:57 PM Report

I don't know what the confusion is about. To appropriately address identified issues of concern, you have to be able to really evaluate not just the negative outcomes, but the root causes, along with the programs and services or lack thereof, and identify the gaps. It is not only a basic professional approach, but it allows for the development of long term planning, not just shot-gun approaches. Sensible planning, along with built in evaluation once implementation occurs, is more successful and more cost effective. From a people perspective, it simply makes the most difference while allowing preventative measures to be implemented and providing the kind of supports that will actually make a difference. I can only hope it will be a cross-departmental approach since it is not just about crime. I hope Bob Davies is successful in his pursuit of adequate funding to do this important work.
sinikka 9/28/2012 12:03:26 PM Report

All the causes of downtown crime listed are correct but there is a real simple answer to the downtown crime. The downtown consists of mainly businesses who do not operate outside of regular business hours. Therefore there is nobody around to see these people breaking in at night. If this was purely a residential area then owners and their neighbours can assist in the prevention of crime and/or the identity of those committing them. If you have more police presence in the downtown core, problems will be reduced . Just send me the cheque when you figure this out mr. davies.
ryeandcoke 9/28/2012 1:49:20 PM Report

MR. DAVIES QUIT ACTING LIKE YOU CARE.
Zarm27 9/28/2012 1:55:43 PM Report

I'd rather see more cameras being placed in certain locations to actually have evidence which may help find the people doing the crimes. As far as why people are doing it, there's been many reasons already listed. A fun example is to walk down queen st. during the afternoon, and count how many people you see experiencing DT's. Aside from the drug abuse which drains the wallets of people, there's also the kids that just want something they can't normally afford.
saulticide 9/28/2012 2:08:32 PM Report

cocaine, hookers, and kids that live with their welfare parents.
UrsaMajor 9/28/2012 2:27:14 PM Report

Stevie-E

Let's just tear peoples' houses down and force them into labour, yay western society!

And where are you going to put them to work? Concentration camps? You're sick.

There was no point to world war II. Hitler might as well rule the world with people like this on our side.

"Spend the money on buying up all the dilapidated houses and get the scummy people out, put them to work cleaning up the downtown area so we can revive it.

People on welfare, "unemployment" and other social assistance programs should be put to work for the city if they are healthy and do not have any dependents to care for!(ie. children, etc.)

People that fall into the above category shouldn't be allowed to sit at home all day (I don't care if you paid EI while you had a job, so do we!), they should be provided meaningful labour in exchange for their EI/Welfare cheques. It keeps them active, allows for new skills to be developed, and out of trouble.

The answer is right in front of us, let's just ask the right questions, not the obvious ones."
shakerbaker 9/28/2012 4:09:53 PM Report

Why spend our tax money to find out what the problem is. Get off your a..& do your job & get the druggies & prostitutes off the street.I think half of you are scared of these people or they are paying you good money to keep quiet That is the most stupidest question I have heard for a long time.
Stevie-E 9/28/2012 5:28:53 PM Report

@Ursa

You again? Lol go back to your commune in the mountains and leave good business sense to us educated folk. If you don't like Western Society, move! You must fit into the category I mentioned....oh well, you can't please everyone I guess.

Anyway, if you could have gotten past your left wing radical ideals, you would have seen that I mentioned that money would be better spent getting rid of or repairing old dilapidated homes that breed shady activity. Also, I mentioned that the people collecting benefits (could be from any neighbourhood), should be held to some sort of accountability since they are getting a FREE cheque!

I am not violating anyones rights by expecting them to give back to their community. It's called VALUE for our tax dollar! I have to answer to someone in order to get paid, so why can't people collecting benefits? They can clean/repair the downtown area, including homes so people have a sense of pride in our historic downtown area. It would take the strain off using city employees for the smaller things and it would provide training and skills to the workers while providing them an opportunity to get back into the job market.

Downtown is a scary place past Essar Centre and it's because of shady people doing shady things. It's known as ghettos in larger cities. People getting free money and not having to go to work in the morning allow themselves to be exposed to OTHER activities and most often supplement their income in other ways. They are not motivated to become a good citizen because they are, for lack of a better word - SPOILED.

Getting rid of the rats nest will get rid of the rats. People are uncomfortable going out downtown because of this and it makes a particularly bad impression to anyone who comes to the city - either they pass through to Sudbury or never come back! We need to not rely on Essar to provide most of the jobs in this city and should try to model ourselves like Petoskey or Traverse City. We have the capability - but not the political know how. City council needs a change and fresh blood (Manzo?)

Listen, get an education and work for a living and then you can come back and joust with an appropriate argument.
vic-star 9/28/2012 5:46:50 PM Report

Really Stevie-E? Im not sure what your resentment towards people on EI is about, but we pay into it, therefore it is our own money. if it upsets you so much, go on EI and try to live, i can assure you its not that easy, and it certainly would be much more difficult if we needed to also budget for packed lunches and travel too and from downtown, just so it makes you happier?! please, grow up.
havenesegal 9/28/2012 6:02:15 PM Report

downtown crime and lack of suitable housing is the same in every city big and small. In the day where homes were built near the center of town because not everyone owned a car.have u tried to find suitable housing in this town on a lower income it is darn near impossible unless u live in the core .Where are all the available jobs u speak of Steve e cause last time I checked there are not many. Also because u live in the core doesn't mean yr a drug addict!!Or that yr on benefits!! Lastly this is the Sault not traverse city so why don't we find what works for us rather then compare our selves those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!
Stevie-E 9/28/2012 6:08:41 PM Report

I know many people who cheat the system and could be out looking for suitable work. I don't resent people on EI for the right reasons...and yes, the economy is getting competitive to find affordable housing, but what about people who take pride and joy in their house only to be in the unfortunate situation of having crime come to the area, lowering the house value?

We can banter all day but at the end of the day, are all people who are receiving some sort of government assistance (I said welfare as well) actively looking for a job?

I am willing to bet my glass house on it.
Stevie-E 9/28/2012 6:10:08 PM Report

Hey Vic!

We all pay into it! It's called insurance for a reason and people could be out doing something if they aren't in a stable job situation.

Stevie-E 9/28/2012 6:16:44 PM Report

If you can't find work does not mean you give up! Your degree in Sociology or Philosopy will make you interesting at parties, but that's about it! Many options out there for people...you can open your own business...move...go back to school or all of the above!

And we most certainly should model ourselves after a city that does well...so if you can tell me what working for the Sault, please enlighten me! We need to diversify and make it a tourist area. Complaining and complacency will get us nowhere.

Do something instead of waving the white flag and wasting my money doing it! I believe in the value of hard work.
tcowen 9/28/2012 6:24:19 PM Report

It's called long term treatment & supervised housing.. Put a security guard at the door.

Keep them safe, keep them warm & let'em have all the methadone they can drink..

20.yrs of Cut backs and budget tweaking has created a "Catch & Release" approach to mental health and addictions treatment..
thesharr 9/28/2012 6:32:07 PM Report

Empty buildings,rundown,cheap rent,no traffic.The next thing you know the trouble makers,drugdealers,users,theives all work close together moving stolen merchandise for drugs extra cash for booze and the circle goes round and round.You don't need a study the figure out what causes downtown crime.Drugs,prostitution,cheap,below standard housing attracts a certain type of person.
UrsaMajor 9/29/2012 6:39:07 AM Report

The world is a scary place steve. Gonna tear down Earth and build a new one too?
speed7 9/29/2012 5:48:40 PM Report

Heavensegull I am the one who made the traverse city comment. I was referring to beautifying our Dowtown in a similar manner. I don't think they live in glass houses . They just know how to attract tourists better than we do.
A city has to be managed with better fresh thinking. Americans just do things better because they have the drive to move forwards. We really could learn a lot from them. All these
Old foggies in city council have no drive. Their eyes are too big with retirement city pensions just going through the motions. Youll never
See an American muddle through like we do.
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