eds 9/15/2012 6:50:55 PM Reportaren't these the greedy egoists that gave us Mcguinty liberals in the first place? How many parties do they think there are?
sugar 9/15/2012 6:51:44 PM ReportGreat Job Teachers!!
KFM 9/15/2012 7:08:10 PM ReportI don't know if anyone else has notices the timing of all of this. Calling Bill115, Putting Students First. It being written and passed without actually being required. What happened to all of Daltons other blunders in the media? They have disappeared! Perfect smoke screen to cover his ass don't you think.
the coach 9/15/2012 7:27:53 PM ReportTeachers and nurses get no repect for their hard work. And on the other side of the coin, have you ever met a politician that did not lie? Let us all know his/her name so we can make a statue.
Norm 9/15/2012 7:38:12 PM ReportWhere was David O?
harry dick 9/15/2012 7:53:07 PM Reportdoes mr. orazietti understand that his government is taking away the teacher's right to negotiate their compensation package for doing a job for the provincial government? this is truly anti union tactics. it looks to me as this legislation has opened the door to further removing other provincial union's rights to negotiate their contracts as well. is it setting a precedent for the private sector to treat their unionized employees the same way? the right to negotiate is the cornerstone of unions in this country. is our provincial government leading the way to crush unions in ontario and push it's employee's wages and benefits back into the 1960's? the comunist way-you will get what we tell you you'll get!!!!. democracy in ontario- i think not!!!!
medsec 9/15/2012 8:04:28 PM ReportKFM: Perfect, where has all Dalton's screw ups gone? Where are you D. Orazietti, former teacher?
lowla 9/15/2012 8:10:11 PM ReportMcGuinty is trying to pull off a Harperism. He doesn't have the population base to support this. He has just pissed off the least apathetic group in the province, they will all be out come election day
muf 9/15/2012 8:25:15 PM ReportDavey O will be OK come election time,but the Sault will suffer with a member of the minority party. Enjoy what he got you because that`ll be it
thinker 9/15/2012 8:41:50 PM ReportI am pleased that the government is doing what is necessary considering the $16 billion provincial deficit. OECTA negotiated with the gov't.; the public teachers were not willing to. I wonder why? - ha! ha! Teachers who are at the max (about $94,000 plus paid benefits) should be willing to accept a pay freeze for two years. Many are but if they speak out, they are 'blacklisted'. I support David Orazietti. Read his comments in today's Sault Star. They are correct. Public, do not be fooled. Get all of the information you can before deciding. Teachers, SHAME on YOU!!!
(By the way, I am a teacher.)
Hatch 9/15/2012 8:50:45 PM ReportIt's about time someone put the teachers into their place.
Kudos to the Liberals and David O for doing the right thing but in the wrong way.
KFM 9/15/2012 8:56:14 PM ReportThinkier, being a teacher you know that the liberalsvlied when they said that contracts would automatically roll over on September 1, didn't happen. Only fuel public resentment. Calling this Bill the Putting Kids First bill? You think they aren't holding the kids out as thier little shield knowing again the public will see us asvthe bad guys? I like Dave, must be tough for him having to toe the party line and lie for them as in the paper today, saying that. Bill115 does restrict a strike. If you read the bill it not only says restrict strikes making it illegal but it says ALL public servents, what group is next on Daltons hit list?
medsec 9/15/2012 9:13:03 PM ReportThinker: what is McGuinty willing to give up or David O? Maybe a pay freeze themselves???????? Are you kidding me and everyone else. Not all teachers are making that much but they spend more time with your kids more in a day than you do. You must be a friend of David O's. (I am not a teacher) but realize what they do) Full day kindergarten, give me break, those kids are too little for that.(glorified babysitting service) pretty sure that's going to make them Eineteins!!!! The government needs to make some concessions with their pensions. Get real
shju 9/15/2012 9:14:34 PM ReportLets give everyone a raise in money! There is lots of money to go around. If we are in the red we can just raise the tax on the middle class again. Everyone deserves to make more money. Fact is deserves have nothing todo with the state of the economy. Its a sign of the times and you have to roll with it now so there is a future for the next generation. Anyone who refuses to look forward is stuck in the stone aged way of thinking and is very selfish. Lets stop putting the burden of debt on our kids because we want more. If the economy picks up and the government has been in the black, then bargain. Right now is not the time and wow to people that think it is and protest for it.
medsec 9/15/2012 9:29:18 PM ReportOne more comment on this story, if McGuinty and David O and all the MPP's would take a pay freeze then it would be a little easier to swallow, you know what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Any response David O??????
the_mage 9/15/2012 9:40:36 PM ReportI'd let the teachers negotiate for a pay raise to adjust to inflation and economics in the future. They are responsible for the future of young minds. Governments tend to think they know best for the future. And if you restrict a lot of teachers, then the student will be the aftermath no matter what the cost. Then they might be a bunch of whining crying dumbasses who post comments like they know everything as well.
mon 9/15/2012 9:46:22 PM ReportWhat many people seem to have missed is that all the union's did agree to the wage freeze. It was everything else they were trying to take away with the hint of more to come in the future that the unions opposed.
What would you do if your boss asked you for a wage freeze and you agreed but then your boss told you that wasn't good enough. They were going to take away benefits and other things, as well as, start to restructure your pay in the future.
In addition, the government claimed that the unions weren't trying to negotiate their contracts with the boards. The boards/unions couldn't really negotiate since the threat for this began at the beginning of the year and anything negotiated would become null. The government claimed that if they didn't get this bill in immediately, the teachers would all get a raise in the new year. All that would have happened was that our contract would have rolled over and we would have received the same thing we were getting in the previous contract - not a increase in pay.
Everyone needs to realize that the government is going to go after more professions in the near future. Once the government does this, private sector will follow suit.
The liberals are taking away our democratic rights as Canadian citizens.
Unfortunately, many people do not understand what it is like to be a teacher. Yes there are some great perks to the job. Yes there are teachers who shouldn't be teachers but MOST teachers are there because they love working with kids/teenagers. I have seen a great number of students that wouldn't have made it to graduation without the teachers seeing their potential and pushing them.
Many people like to post negative comments about other people/professions/nationalities/etc. here on sootoday. I know for a fact that I am not made out to be a nurse. It is not a job that I would want for different reasons (nothing against nurses - nurses are saints). That being said most people would not be cut out to be a teacher. Most people would not have the patience and until you have walked in someone's shoes you should not have the right to judge them so harshly. Luckily, most of our students don't have the views that many of the harsh critics on here do. They see what their teachers do for them in and out of the classroom.
This fight is not about the money. This is about keeping the government for stripping away what we have already negotiated over the past decades and our democratic rights.
Most people do not realize the way this government has impacted the education system over the last two terms. Now they are using the education system to take the focus away from their other mistakes while they continue to squander our tax dollars.
mon 9/15/2012 9:52:23 PM ReportBefore someone corrects me, it should say...an increase in pay.
Sorry. Teachers are not perfect either.
SuperHunter 9/15/2012 11:55:17 PM ReportAlthough I believe that we all should have the right to negotiate a good contract for work,I find it hard to believe that the teachers want us to line up behind them against the government when we are the ones paying the bills and we are the ones the government is protecting. Yes, they are negotiating with us and the government is our agent! Why should we side with them? If they get an increase and our taxes do not go up, our kids have to do without or we have to ante up to pay for more supplies! Funny how no one seems to see this...
Our kids are our most important resource. Who do you want to support? The agents negotiating for us? Or the agents negotiating against us? Against is the wrong term, but in a negotiating situation, they are on the other side of the table from us.
PipeBomb 9/16/2012 12:27:29 AM ReportYeah teachers have it rough, those 2 months off must really REALLY suck. Suck it up and get on with your lives. I'm no Liberal either...but I'm sick of teachers crying the blues over everything. Half of them don't even do a good job.
speed7 9/16/2012 12:54:00 AM ReportI agree with previous comment it takes a special person with special qualities to be a teacher. Trashing on them and hissing and booing isnt acceptable nor does it show any class and is a sign if immaturity that you could not get past as a child yourself. People argue with itellect not shameless name calling and spreading lies about a proffesion of hard working individuals. It has nothing to do with teachers wanting more it has to do with underhanded legislation that strips people of there rights! Trashing someone who spends most of the day with your children is truly sick... not to mention it's a form of slander.
Eds "aren't these the greedy egoists that gave us Mcguinty liberals in the first place? How many parties do they think there are?
Obviously now there are no parties... all of them are taking away your rights! You think the NDP or the PC's would do anything different! NO! Hudak helped Mcguinty write up this legislation did you know that! Do you remember the NDP and bob rae and his rae days? Like they will ever get an NDP vote again?
Thinker
"OECTA negotiated with the gov't.; the public teachers were not willing to. I wonder why? - ha! ha! Teachers who are at the max (about $94,000 plus paid benefits)
They didnt get the chance. Maybe you make 94 grand but your figures seem to apply to teachers who have been employed with maximum seniority. I know , I have freinds who are teaches too and I know that is not the average wage. Have you not heard people coming in saying they started at 29 grand , some still on the supply list making less? You've had your gravy train why are you becoming more and more immature. That shows really poor taste on your part. Did you know, You make about half of what board admministrators make? Probably you are one of those butt kissers with ties to those administrators on the board. Probably you envite them for those fancy dinner parties at your house with " credentials " in the field Yeah, You know.. Ha Ha!!! Your probably one of them? Maybe you are working up your way into the board? You should be thankful not resentfull. Why arent you stating that if you are so happy with David O? Take the cut. Maybe youre a retired teacher with a big chip on his/her shoulder. Maybe David O needs to start dipping into your existing retired pensions too! Ha Ha!
Todays march to david O's office went well and SHAME ON DAVID O ! for not showing up! Daulton for covering up for David. Lies and more lies! This is not a democracy by any means!
speed7 9/16/2012 1:10:37 AM ReportSuper hunter:
"They are negotiating with us and the government is our agent! Why should we side with them? If they get an increase and our taxes do not go up, our kids have to do without or we have to ante up to pay for more supplies!"
The government is your agent? You bieng fooled! Your at the bottom of the payscale chain so guess what? Your a fool who happens to be.... next.
Teachers have been ante - ing up for far too long . If they protest buying supplies from now on , dont cry! Because you will be ante - ing up next! Think your government is going to bail you out? Ahhhh No! Remember " Common Sense "! The "common sense revolution" applies accross the board... the poor or middle to high class accept the rich and those who envite board administrators to their house for a fancy dinner party..... my friend! No ante- ing up going on there!
shaddow 9/16/2012 1:23:18 AM ReportI am a student, trying to get ahead in life but all I seem to see is our Government Of Ontario is going in the direction of destroying our country by being a fanatical dictator, taking away freedoms we had, the dreams we looked forward to becoming something in the next generation. Now we seem to see that we are heading towards a controlling dictatorship that wants to be able to control all unions & people and fill all their pockets as they wish. I do not wish to look at our future being destroyed by a group of lowlife control freaks. I am very pleased with the teachers at our school helping us when we request it but note our Government will destroy that , in the end. And I might add to SuperHunter that with his attitude it can only mean he is either a lowlife himself or lives off society & pays nothing.............
speed7 9/16/2012 2:08:29 AM ReportShawdow for a young student you seem to have more maturity and knowledge than some of these ass hats whinning about teachers. They dont understand economics and I am sure you have had some courses in that area yourself. Good for you in support of your teachers! I bet there were some along the way who inspired you to choose your field of study. That is what its all about after all... not name calling, lying and jealous cliques.
speed7 9/16/2012 2:22:24 AM ReportPipe bomb
"Yeah teachers have it rough, those 2 months off must really REALLY suck. Suck it up and get on with your lives. I'm no Liberal either...but I'm sick of teachers crying the blues over everything. Half of them don't even do a good job."
What school are you talking about? That half dont do their job? Where? Somewhere remote maybe? Those 2 months off are really about maybe like 6 weeks considering they leave after cleaing up beginning of July and come back for meetings, classroom preparation a set up, more meetings ect. about middle august. So what could that be for yearly vacation then? 6 weeks maybe? not 2 months. It is their yearly vacation we are talking about do you know that? Most people anywhere else get that so why not teachers? Knowbody says anthing about all the long hours they work after schools all unpaid overtime as well. Yeah it sucks when you have no clue !
I'm In 9/16/2012 2:28:35 AM ReportFace it folks the province is in debt and not bringing in the revenue which it once did. When the auto industry was healthy the libs had money to throw away, now it time to tighten the belt and the teachers need to realize this so that the future does not have a larger debt to pay. As old saying goes short term pain for long term gain, so teachers suck it up or go teach in Wisconsin where Paul Ryan told public servants you'll work for what we tell you because America is in debt.
KFM 9/16/2012 8:07:05 AM ReportI have talked with David O a few times this summer about all this and one question he wouldn't answer for me is if the government is truly looking to reduce costs why do we still have a Public Board, Catholic Board, French Board, french Catholic Board and so on? The waste in administration is outragous. These bodies do the same thing, the money comes from the same place, why do we need , in this city, 3 different boards doing the same job, duplicating the same things? I think the government doesn't want to go there because of the fall out.
XtraKrusty 9/16/2012 8:15:14 AM ReportHeres my 2 cents, please dont slam our teachers, they negotiated these big salaries when things were good, it just makes it tough to claw that back in times like these but it is necessary. A child born today owes Gov't of Canada about $17,000 and gov't of Ontario about $20,584 thats almost $40,000. That is money we spent but they will have to pay back, shame on us all. The Ontario agency in charge of property tax assessments for homeowners is under fire for holding an “extravagant” Toronto convention for 1300 employees with Lego in their rooms for team-building exercises. When I worked for MNR that building was a ghost town on Fridays, government workers get paid for, but are consistantly "sick" on Fridays. Teachers are in the spotlight now, but it will make its way accross the board among all government sectors. The teachers union is very strong all other unions will be a breeze once they break this one! If your paycheque has that trillium on it dont make any long term plans!!!
eom 9/16/2012 8:20:48 AM ReportWOW!!!........we can pass a bill like 115
in a matter of weeks............but we seem to have a problem passing a bill to regulate the gas lords from the everyday increases with out cause or/ just.....
oh' ya i forgot we had a weather watch for a tornado back in july.
KHL 9/16/2012 8:27:41 AM ReportSuper Hunter - Question: Do teachers, nurses, doctors, postal workers, paramedics, educational assistance, etc not pay their taxes? Are you insinuating that only private sector citizens pay their taxes? Oh wait, public sector citizens pay more in tax than many people due to the fact that we make more money. We make more money because we invested the time, money and our own resources into becoming professionals. Your reasoning is circular. Your analogy of having an "agent" is flawed...or maybe you are more worried about your upcoming hockey season than the attack on everyone's rights as an Ontario citizen.
Speed7 - Thank your trying to shed light on a reading public who for the majority seems to think teachers are lazy. You clearly understand that this is far beyond teachers but about legislation that will only hurt us all. Your clarity is appreciated by this reader.
BigDaddy 9/16/2012 8:43:18 AM ReportThis whole thing doesn't make any sense. The Liberal Gov't is spending Billions encouraging education. He is the first to agree (Education Premier)that education is great and people need it to make a living. Teachers are extremely well educated and a critical component to the education system...so let's get them he says.
Here's what really is happending, he squandered BILLIONS (ehealh, ornge, gas power plants, PRIVATE SECTOR BAIL OUTS!, etc) AND now has to make up for it because he has no money. Public sector here he comes. He pretends it makes sense and sadly the bitter applaud it. I'm dry in the mouth explaining that Teachers are not overpaid (but someone making minimum wage with no education, sure you may think so but it's all relative). It's a myth. This attacking is completely backwards. How about we try to bring everyone up to a decent level (who do pay a healthy amount of taxes and re-contribute to the economy) instead of trying to hurt those who are doing ok. Remember a few other things, under the Liberals, Ontario has experienced an explosion in living costs (taxes, energy, user fees, etc) making $40,000/yr doesn't cut it in this province anymore. The last point, I've compared many of my friends who work at Essar and they are basically at the same level of any teacher I know. Better be careful though, maybe those evil Essar steel employees will be next right? Sadly, some will only be "happy" once everyone is reduced to their level and making $15/hr...yeah, won't Ontario be great then?
little lulu 9/16/2012 8:45:07 AM ReportAH just like the bad students that some of you probably were in school, you have made an excuse to not DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Instead you have found an excuse to bash teachers by reading that the pay freeze in this bill is the issue and the ONLY issue! I'm afraid you've overlooked the fact that the government can now do what they want, when they want and they will soon be moving on to other public employees. Let's see how well this goes over with fire fighters and police officers. Don't you WANT these people happy in their jobs?? Don't you want them to still feel like they have a say?? WE ARE NOT TALKING MONEY HERE PEOPLE!!
BigDaddy 9/16/2012 8:53:43 AM ReportOn a different note, a little more intelligence could help all of Ontario:
- reduce the massive duplication in school boards.
- Cut duplicate gov't spending (all kinds of wasteful programs competing against each other)
- Ontario has 300+ different departments (ie, OW, ODPS, all kinds of 3rd party agreements) each with their own admin staff, management, etc. clean this up and save millions! Ontario has 14 LHINS, having hundreds of staff all making $100k+
- Government is thick with Management, middle management and all kinds of one off "special project" positions, including very expensive consultants. Did Drummond really need to get paid to point out the obvious?
People tell me their kids are getting energy rebate cheques, etc and they don't understand why?
Pudelpointer 9/16/2012 9:37:06 AM ReportFantastic job Teachers! Keep on fighting!
Nicky16 9/16/2012 10:03:38 AM ReportIt is really unfortunate that some people are soooooo ignorant they would respond and make such harsh words public when they do not even understand the WHOLE of this situation. To those of you responding that teachers need to do their part for the deficit .....IT IS NOT ABOUT THE PAY FREEZE !!!! it is about the rights that are taken away and about the earned sick days that are being dropped and the "unpaid" days... therefore if you add it up people you now have teachers making LESS money than they did previously because they have to take 3 unpaid days !!! Which equates to an almost 2% pay DECREASE !!! This is just ridiculous and I am sorry but get the FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE RESPONDing your opinions!!! P.S I am not a teacher.
chrispoitras86 9/16/2012 10:15:03 AM ReportI don't understand why everybody focuses on the money. It's not about the money. The union already agreed to pay freezes. It's about the Liberal government circumventing Labor Laws and stripping away the democratic rights of educational worker's unions by making it illegal for them to strike. The fact that the government can take away a fundamental right like that is scary.
They have opened a Pandora's Box and your union might be next.
705dude 9/16/2012 10:29:34 AM ReportKeep fighting for your rights Teachers!!
Saree 9/16/2012 10:35:34 AM ReportThe government has and will always be driven by economics. Over the last few years, the government has stopped listening to its educators and started making decisions based on ways to save money. As teachers, we are not fighting for more money or personal gain, however we need to keep our voice so that we can advocate for our students.
Teachers believe in their students and want to create a safe and positive learning environment for ALL types of learners. This fight is about keeping our right to have a voice in education. Believe in us and we will continue to fight for quality education for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=related
705dude 9/16/2012 10:49:02 AM ReportWe are going about this all wrong. Why are we targeting people (professionals) who have worked hard to become someone in society, who can make a difference in society. And I am not only speaking about teachers here, any educated person who spent the time and effort to become someone.
If the governement is doing this to find money, why don't we target all the people on social assistance who are living off of our hard earned money. I am not speaking about people that have been laid off, but people collecting welfare and sit around all day and find ways to get high, drink beer, etc. on our dollar. Target these people, get them off there asses and get them working, show them what it is to work. This is Canada, everyone had/has a choice, an opportunity to become someone in society, to make a difference in society, there is no reason for anyone to be sitting at home collecting welfare checks. Frustrating.
D_Laity 9/16/2012 10:56:12 AM ReportA group of people protesting outside his office chanting "Shame on you!" and some with anti-bullying signs.
Am I the only one that see's this as hypocritical?
speed7 9/16/2012 12:01:25 PM ReportThanks KHL, like I said before I know 2 teachers in the elemetary system and also some in the secondary school system as well. Not the teachers andy cap reffers to from the 1940's when there were no ministry guidelines and you could teach without a license? I mean current teachers today. I am trying to shed light but all these narrow minded folks have chosen to focus on their foolish demands on a respectabe profession like teaching. They would not be able to do that job I guarantee that! If for one day even... they would realize how hard working you teachers are! How many responsibilities. How many meetings, How much homework, How many parent teachers meetings, how many extra - curricular activities, how many follow up courses, how many ministry guidelines to follow, how many report cards which are seriously flawed in the first place by who? Your governement! The paper pushers who legislate and mandate. Its not easy. I am just touching the surface. Do you realize what the curriculum is for a grand one student these days? Go look it up. It is so loaded. Stuff we learned in high school !!! Yes the government is pressuring your child cramming information into there little brains and then rigourous testing to prove they are making a difference. Waist of money and time actually!
Fact remains our government is slowing taking away rights!. Those of you who beleive your parliament is your bargaining agent are cleary wrong.
One making 15,000 to 25,000 come in here pretentding to have rights when they do not pay enough taxes to support an economy in the first place? Those getting a higher income do. Stop bieng immature and admit that. Proffesionals like teachers are what keeps an economy strong. These people are the ones who pay for all those free services you enjoy! Any minimum wage earners should have the balls to say it at least! Instead of coming in here and bashing teachers. "Bargaining Agent" Go bargain with yourselves fools! Maybe try teaching? I havent heard anyone yet to say I might try it if its such a lucrative career. Go get an OSAP loan which your government is also dipping into as well , go to university , and go teach! Well? Put your money where your mouth is?
beanie 9/16/2012 12:57:32 PM Reportspeed7
I don't know bout you but I get 2 weeks holidays.. not 6 weeks? Just sayin..
speed7 9/16/2012 1:05:31 PM ReportI'm in
As old saying goes short term pain for long term gain, so teachers suck it up or go teach in Wisconsin where Paul Ryan told public servants you'll work for what we tell you because America is in debt.
Thats what communists do? You realize that? That's why you dont have alot of people coming into the profession. Somehow I dont even think the USA has the same protective laws on education like Canada does? The USA has done a succuessful job of breaking down unions. No Rights or bargaining means no choice! . Now our government seems to become more and more successfull at doing the same. Where do you suppose all this is headed for both of us? Another George Bush disaster, that's where?
speed7 9/16/2012 1:45:43 PM Reportbeanie, where do you work? Private Sector? Dont complain if your employer doesnt give you more than 2 weeks . Start up a union then? You know that little thing called called a "UNION". You governement is getting smarter now. We will all pay for that!
Jealousy is'nt the issue here and you know it.
speed7 9/16/2012 1:55:05 PM ReportRead the curriculum for a Grade One student folks and tell me this isnt bloated! Bloated bureaucrats pushing paper making 200 grand a year! This one only touches on science. But you get the picture.
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/elementary/scientec18currb.pdf
missing33years 9/16/2012 4:35:56 PM ReportTEACHERS get 22.oo hr MINIMUM /nurses 35.oo TO START both are over paid union wages , both have become paper pushers ,both have access to to many days off a year.Get a job and work for a living where you cant cash in hundreds of sic days at the end of your employment and the rest of the country pays for it,PISS OF THE LOT OF YOU
leeza 9/16/2012 4:41:40 PM Report...and we are supposed to be living in a democratic society? Once again politicians have not kept their promise. Are we really surprised by this? David O. is no different.
missing33years 9/16/2012 4:50:13 PM Reportspeed7 says start a union/thats the problem,to many lazy workers protected by unions,they kill progress in todays world,they had purpose once,now their a greedy cancer and need to be removed
muf 9/16/2012 5:06:12 PM ReportPulled a real big boo boo at work there huh "missing" ? Boss kicked your can to the curb and your union said to you "What the hell were you thinking we can`t condone that !"
Now you got an ugly on for all unions. Lets get rid of all unions . That will create more work ! Minimum wage jobs that is. Then who will pay the taxes we all enjoy paying in Ontario ??
missing33years 9/16/2012 5:19:32 PM ReportPoor little MUF is all in a tuff because with out his union his pathetic life would be ruff
muf 9/16/2012 6:17:52 PM ReportLOL "missing" ..........the minimum wage thing won`t bother me. I`ll be retired by then . However can`t say that for today's young people . PT work ,low wages ,little benefits.
the coach 9/16/2012 7:02:15 PM ReportAnd the saddest part of this whole thing is that poor Mr. Dressup is McGuintys' twin.
the coach 9/16/2012 7:03:17 PM ReportAnd the saddest part of this whole thing is that poor Mr. Dressup is McGuintys' twin.
speed7 9/16/2012 8:12:42 PM ReportMissing. That potty mouth of yours wont get you more vacation weeks. Perhaps joining a union will?
Bid daddy your right about the scandals. If you ask me, it actually all started with the fed's. Harper lying about this country's economy then later taking it back which. I found suspicious. As you know the debts are handed down to the provinces. We are going to see a lot more of this. Our Jobs will be just above minimum wage. The private sector will get a beating too! This government is pulling out the big guns!
D_Laity 9/16/2012 10:02:39 PM ReportLet me clarify...
I just though the situation was funny.
As for the issues with the bill, I have no opinion on the matter.
OrganicGuy 9/16/2012 10:48:46 PM ReportHey I work for the gov't no union and have had to pay increase for 2 years. Why can't teachers share that wealth!!!
OrganicGuy 9/16/2012 10:49:41 PM ReportHey I work for the gov't no union and have had no pay increase for 2 years. Why can't teachers share that wealth!!!
OrlandoFlorida 9/16/2012 11:13:01 PM ReportI think the teachers have forgotten how the liberals gave them a 2 percent raise immediately before requiring other non union government workers to take a wage freeze a couple years ago. They didn't have to bargain for what many government and private sector workers would view as a very good raise. You can't have your cake and eat it too! Oh wait you can, just take a course or two during the summer months and you can still get a raise by moving up a pay grade.
little lulu 9/16/2012 11:20:31 PM ReportOrlando
I think you have forgotten to read what the issue is here....please see above! and please read beyond the line "the legislation includes a pay freeze...."in the media. There is alot more going on here, but I guess ignorance really is bliss. It's easier to attack than make an attempt to see both sides. Teachers are asking that collective bargaining rights be respected...not more money!
OrlandoFlorida 9/16/2012 11:37:57 PM ReportWell then, declare them essential services and problem is solved. Let's face it, the province has run out of money, and yes the government and its poor management has got us to this point. The teachers have done well up to this point I suggest they lay low and as I said they could have also lost their ability to move up the pay grade.
OrlandoFlorida 9/16/2012 11:53:09 PM ReportSo lulu, do you plan to take the high road and march for other workers, because when the government froze non union government workers wages I don't recall any teachers unions standing up and saying that's not fair, I didn't see any marches to the MPP's office in support, I didn't hear anything.
shaddow 9/17/2012 2:45:37 AM ReportBecause the teachers can not strike does not mean they have to lay down & die. Why do the teachers not 'work to rule'. Check with their unions & retaliate against the dictator McGinnie the Mouse. Is that so hard or imposable to do. Rotate sick days off with hundreds per city, do just the basics - no after school programs - stop all extras & just go by the 'book'. Apologize to the students & parents about the actions you may have to take as all your rights are being attacked by a dictator & control freak. I am a student in support of the teachers who should not be getting manipulated or dictated to, by a lowlife control freak. As youngsters we are told that a person of this type is a 'BULLY' & to retaliate & stop it in their tracks. What are we learning NOW ??? That 'BULLYING' is OK. WOW! What a message coming from our beloved Government of Ontario.........................
sumosah 9/17/2012 8:48:49 AM ReportKFM 9/16/2012 8:07:05 AM Report
I have talked with David O a few times this summer about all this and one question he wouldn't answer for me is if the government is truly looking to reduce costs why do we still have a Public Board, Catholic Board, French Board, french Catholic Board and so on? The waste in administration is outragous. These bodies do the same thing, the money comes from the same place, why do we need , in this city, 3 different boards doing the same job, duplicating the same things? I think the government doesn't want to go there because of the fall out.
Reason is - after they have Bill 115 they will go after the other boards - then when they are done that there will be a precedent set and look ot other unions... CLA , then janitorial... Labourers Union etc .... just watch this needs to be fought for the principle in how it is being done... not just for the teachers no matter what your opinion of them is ...
68ssgirl 9/17/2012 9:08:11 AM ReportUnfortunately what people do not understand is that targeting school boards and teachers is just the tip of the iceberg. I am a member of the support staff who make 1/3 of what teachers make, don't get the hollidays or the hours that teachers get. We are the silent minority that get lumped in with the teachers and lose all that they lose without having anywhere near the benefits that they have. WE ALL do an important job in keeping our schools running, not just the teachers, but the people who pay the bills, pay the teachers, collect the money, manage the budget, keep the schools clean and sanitary and provide the environment in which the teachers can do their job.
BigDaddy 9/17/2012 9:14:57 AM ReportBeanie and others:
"I only get 2 weeks not 6 just saying.." -
well what are you saying?...that your job doesn't have very good benefits? I'm sorry to hear that, seriously. What if we compare your wages and benefits to your education and experience level?Now, let's try to help you out and get something better or would you sleep better at night knowing that people are worse off then you? Careful, I'm sure some employees in the Agricuture sector would love to have 2 weeks off... My point is it that it's all relative.
Wage freeze is a signicant cut in pay...don't worry about the unpaid days (taxes will take care of that) but what is missed is again, over the last 8 to 9 years Ontarians seen an explosive in living costs in Ontario along with general inflation. Some say that it averages 5 to 7% a year (Health premium, energy costs, user fees, property taxes, etc, etc). A price freeze itself is more likely a 5% cut in purchasing power. Just something to think about.
W. Yote 9/17/2012 9:38:22 AM ReportKHL- without the private sector you would have NO JOB. Sorry maybe economics or basic math weren't the subjects you spent time becoming a "professional" in. You and your high payed public servant friends should just go ahead and take your salaries out of your own taxes and see how far that gets you.
Not to sure how teachers college in Ontario really makes you a professional anyhow. I know some real jokers that made it through no problem AND got jobs. Particularly in the Soo I think it has more to do with your last name then it does with whether you are the best qualified for a teaching position.
I love how teachers on here, now realizing they have little public support are trying to align themselves with hard working nurses and other professionals. The usual "its about the students" rhetoric isn't working for them.
MON- the private sector won't be following the public sector, we have been there since '08! Time for the public sector to wake up and smell the recession!!! You have been sheltered by your collective agreements for long enough. At least you had all these years to prepare and get your finances in order. It hit the rest of us a lot harder and faster!
REMEMBER all you public servants, you work FOR the PUBLIC!
flare2005 9/17/2012 10:05:40 AM ReportOMG!! I'm so sick of hearing about your hard lives as a teacher...if you don't like what you have then find another job..you sure won't find one giving you what you have now..there is only a handful of you teachers who actually care about your students anyway..and to use the stop bullying sign...shame on you..you don't even do anything about it in the schools. Why don't you try working for min. wage and crappy to no benefits. Maybe if you took some cut backs you may have some funding to put towards those students that are struggling..where you say lack of funding. Pull you thumb out of your mouth and do the job YOU chose! Don't compare yourself to nurses..you have no idea what they go thru..there is no comparison to your work.
W. Yote 9/17/2012 10:52:32 AM ReportDear disgruntled teachers who keep saying " if you think we have it so good, then go to teachers college and become a teacher"- besides the fact that this would add to the huge problem of overcrowding in the profession, which is a beaming indicator that:
1. The path lacks appropriate barriers to entry or
2. The compensation is too great for the responsibility.
Too all you who have sided with the teachers who have suggested this, here is a counter proposal: if you don't like what the public and the government ( your employers and clients ) want to pay you, why don't you give the private sector a go. You'll come running back with your tails between your legs begging for even a supply position. And guess what, there are HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of qualified and in many cases more passionate teachers waiting on deck in this city that would work harder for a fraction of what you have.
As for those who say this is a smoke screen for the other blunders of this government... I guess they knew exactly what they were doing... Gently poke the biggest bunch of whiners that work for the government and they will do the rest. Maybe you teachers should take some responsibility here, shut your mouths so the public CAN concentrate on the more important issues that Ontario is facing.
speed7 9/17/2012 11:24:54 AM ReportYote
Intesting of you to comment this :
KHL- without the private sector you would have NO JOB. Sorry maybe economics or basic math weren't the subjects you spent time becoming a "professional" in. You and your high payed public servant friends should just go ahead and take your salaries out of your own taxes and see how far that gets you.
I would ike to know what schooling that you have that you've spent your time and resources into? What carreer do you hold?
Please enlighten us?
"Take your salries out of your own taxes"?
Do you even know how much taxes they pay? One word ALOT! You dont need math skills to understand that? They help support the economy yote. So guess what? That means the current economy is supporting people like YOU! Not the other way around. You know, all those social asisstance benefits you enjoy? Matter of fact, all proffessionals pay a hefty share of their taxes as well? Even the mailman pays high taxes. You benefit from this Yote! I think I know who you are and I suggest you drop it before you are identified. Your writing skills prove it.
Shame on you for pooping on the working middle class. You have no clue! Use that cerbral cortex and think before you open up up that stretchy tooth rotting mouth of yours.
speed7 9/17/2012 11:36:00 AM Reportflare
"Why don't you try working for min. wage and crappy to no benefits. Maybe if you took some cut backs you may have some funding to put towards those students that are struggling..where you say lack of funding. Pull you thumb out of your mouth and do the job YOU chose! Don't compare yourself to nurses..you have no idea what they go thru..there is no comparison to your work."
They dont work for minimum wage because unlike you, they went to university and upgraded there education to get to where they are today! Your fault if you still work at a min wage job not a teachers or nurses fault! Get off your rump and beocme one then!
flare2005 9/17/2012 12:15:28 PM ReportSpeed
I'm not the one complaining about my job ..but they seem to be always complaining about something.. Like I said They chose the wonderful job they have. If they had to work for min wage maybe then they would appreciate what they do have.
You have been on here for days criticizing everyones opinion. Wow your life must really stink being such a bitter person. I feel sad for you. :(
speed7 9/17/2012 12:24:00 PM ReportDear Disgruntled Yote:
"Dear disgruntled teachers who keep saying " if you think we have it so good, then go to teachers college and become a teacher"- besides the fact that this would add to the huge problem of overcrowding in the profession, which is a beaming indicator that:
1. The path lacks appropriate barriers to entry or
2. The compensation is too great for the responsibility "
And what is your chosen path then?
The only overcrowding in the proffesion would be in northern ontario. This is'nt the case anywhere else. Your goverment doesnt care about northern ontario. Soon, you wont have many people coming into the proffesion anymore. They have been closing schools incase you havent noticed and bundling them up into one structure. Also they have deleted 25 teading positions. So yeah your theory of too many people going to university for teaching is right.... but no jobs in the sault!!! Guess what ? They go down south and support the eoonomy in southern ontario, not up north! That hurts everyone here. In the future, you might not have quality education anymore if the cuts keep coming.
Your statements"
1. The path lacks appropriate barriers to entry or
2. The compensation is too great for the responsibility "
Firstly, I dont know what you are saying in either one of your statements?
Number one I have no idea?
Number 2 you need to switch the words responsibility and compensation and that would make more sense.
The responsibility is too great for the compensation
NOW AINT THAT THE TRUTH YOTE!!!!
by far the best thing you have said all day! :-0
speed7 9/17/2012 12:30:05 PM ReportFlare
"If they had to work for min wage maybe then they would appreciate what they do have."
Ha! No need to feel sorry for me? I am just fine. I dont need nor desire your concern?
Think hard though... if they worked for min wage do you really think you would have quality education? Not to mention no one coming ino the field spending 20 thousand or more to graduate with a diploma and a teching liscense? Well??
W. Yote 9/17/2012 12:42:29 PM ReportDear Speed,
I am unsure if you actually believe in the cause of the teachers unions here, or if you are just posing as someone that does with the intent of making them look like complete imbeciles. Either way, thank you for your ignorance, intentional or not. It is awesome.
Sincerely,
W. Yote
speed7 9/17/2012 12:44:39 PM ReportAlso flare yes I've been posting in here just like everyone else has been? Incase you havent noticed? Most of you are on the attack and with no real reason to do so. If you would imagine somebody doing this to you maybe you would think long and hard about it. Some one has to straighten out all you narrow minded teacher haters?
Hatred does'nt solve all your problems with your miscomings in your life. And all the hate words in here ... I have never seen so many disgusting racist narrow minded views on this particular topic ever. Now that's VERY SAD INDEED!
speed7 9/17/2012 12:59:28 PM ReportYote
Incase you havent noticed with that thick marrow minded view of yours,
I have been Supporting teachers all along and you have been trashing them all along! Maybe I should be saying "SLANDERING" them all along! Your behaviour is NOT AWESOME!
flare2005 9/17/2012 1:15:45 PM Report I think you are misunderstanding what i am saying.. They chose their profession..nobody pulled them along by the arm..Do you really think they didn't know what they were getting themselves into? Yes it is costly. Now days it is that way for everyone..everyone has a cost that they really can't afford. I have 3 LD children.. for 18 yrs I've sat in meeting after meeting. Some really tried to help and the majority of the others clearly needed to find another job that made them happy. You are not going to straighten anyone out..there is no face or voice to your name..you are just text. You say they have no real reason..how do you know that..they have their own reason to feel the way they do..and racist?
You accused yote of being on social assistance and "Shame on you for pooping on the working middle class. You have no clue! Use that cerbral cortex and think before you open up up that stretchy tooth rotting mouth of yours." are your words.
"Hatred does'nt solve all your problems with your miscomings in your life. And all the hate words in here ... I have never seen so many disgusting racist narrow minded views on this particular topic ever. Now that's VERY SAD INDEED!"
Think speed you too have alot of hate words.
little lulu 9/17/2012 1:48:56 PM Reportfor all of you saying we need to do our part....have a read...or don't and keep blaming the teachers
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-mpps-quietly-get-another-pay-raise-1.237944
missing33years 9/17/2012 2:21:26 PM ReportWHY not set up interactive teaching computers that are able to repeat the learning thats required just like a one on one for the student,no teachers needed,cost is 70% less per school,in fact schools could now be run from any other public buildings,lowers property tax by what,400$ ? just saying....WHAT YA THINK SPEED,ARE U EMPLOYABLE ELSEWHERE ?
speed7 9/17/2012 3:35:41 PM ReportFlare,
OMG!! I'm so sick of hearing about your hard lives as a teacher...if g about your hard lives as a teacher...if you don't like what you have then find another job..you sure won't find one giving you what you have now..there is only a handful of you teachers who actually care about your students anyway..and to use the stop bullying sign...shame on you..you don't even do anything about it in the schools. Why don't you try working for min. wage and crappy to no benefits. Maybe if you took some cut backs you may have some funding to put towards those students that are struggling..where you say lack of funding. Pull you thumb out of your mouth and do the job YOU chose! Don't compare yourself to nurses..you have no idea what they go thru..there is no comparison to your work."
And your words never at any time were filled with hatred and jealousy or racism at all!!
And now you are playing the card like you are the innocent one now. Only being hatefull when its suitable for you, then turn around and play the I'm innocent card. The grass is always greener on the other side for you.
You just told a teacher to put their thumb out of their mouth and demanded that they do their job. You demanded they take cutbacks and put it towards their students. And now you are assuming teachers should pay for student activities which they often already do anyhow!
I know a teacher who deals with dissabled children, children from foster homes, the
deaf , severely delayed , children who are living at home with parents who are mentally ill ect… and do you know how long it takes for the board to report cases like that to children`s aid to get that child back into a normal environment again. Just so he or she can have a normal life again. Try EONS, lots of red tape first. They do not like to see a child hurt and they are compassionate towards them. You have to understand that teachers are not doctors they dont diagnose your child with medical or phsychological problems . Then can only identify it maybe later on because most times it doesn’t show up till then. The problem is that Teachers are your only first point of contact. And you parents come in and yell at them at parent teacher meetings. You expect them to do something about it. What you forget is teachers have to teach a class with all integrated students in one classroom. I truly and sorry you have LD children . I truly understand your position on that. Going to meetings and yelling at a teacher about it though isn’t nice and you have to realize that the teacher’s hands are tied. There is a process you have to go through first and it’s not magic. You and yote accused teachers of bieng lazy that the private sector pays for teachers. Quoting Yotes words here not mine.
Too all you who have sided with the teachers who have suggested this, here is a counter proposal: if you don't like what the public and the government ( your employers and clients ) want to pay you, why don't you give the private sector a go. You'll come running back with your tails between your legs begging for even a supply position. And guess what, there are HUNDREDS (if not thousands) of qualified and in many cases more passionate teachers waiting on deck in this city that would work harder for a fraction of what you have.
All hate words! Sandering them as if they are not passionate, not hard working , not deserving, not caring.
Does this sound great to you? No this is pure hatred . Assuming teachers need to go work for minimun wage and coming back begging for their jobs back? Come on now!
If yote wants an apology about making the stretchy mouth comment fine. Sorry. I did not accuse yote of being on social assistance. He didn’t state where he works in the first place after asking him twice. If its true that yote is on welfare, it doesn’t really show much class to come in here trashing teachers. Does it? Its more like a slap in the face. Ive read yotes past posts and he actually has some hatred towards teachers. There was one point where yote said how many kids felt punished because a teacher didnt feel like talking to the kids in class. I dont know what school yote attended but it certainly was not in teh public or catholic board let me tell you! So making a comment about teachers like that is slander! Especially when yote doesnt say where this happened in the first place. I know. I asked back then. I got no response back.
speed7 9/17/2012 3:45:59 PM Reportmissing
WHAT YA THINK , ARE U EMPLOYABLE ELSEWHERE ?
Is this the kind of spelling you use when you fill out a job application.
Too funny! soon as you tell me first! with long descriptive details!
flare2005 9/17/2012 6:32:25 PM ReportWow..you take everyone words and twist them..they are complaining..complaining about a job they chose. If its that bad they have the choice to leave.
Yes I do know how long it takes and if they are waiting for the board to report these issues then they will wait a long time. Anybody can report to CAS. Actually it does not take that long..Have the children tested thru the school..I think you may not know as much as you think about this problem with kids with disabilities. BUT for successful outcomes the teachers/schools have to do their part with the parents and shamefully alot of them fall thru the cracks. Like I said earlier..there is only a handful of them who actually care. Also I never said anything about yelling at the teachers in meeting. I said I've had meeting after meeting for 18 yrs. Correction My son is 18 so I've done it since he was in grade 1. Sorry I didn't realize that mentioning they stop pouting (thumb in mouth) was slandering them. As for the min wage part..I think you just don't get what I mean. Again my opinion. In the eight yrs of elementry school that my son attended, there was maybe 4 teachers who really tried to help and 1 principal. Not to mention the bullying he went thru because the norm kids don't understand. Again like i said everyone has their own reasons. Never once did I say I hated them. I don't hate anyone. Just disagree with the way some of them do their job. SOME!
These are your words to yote about assistance.
"You know, all those social asisstance benefits you enjoy?"
Like I said I feel sad for you!
speed7 9/18/2012 12:06:48 AM Reportflare.
I am not on social assistance. Say whatever you want. I dont care to listen to you continue denying what a teacher racist you are! Blame all your woes on them! If that makes you feel better, good! Good Luck bashing teachers. It seems to suit you pretty well!
JediMindTrick 9/18/2012 10:42:26 AM Reportshameful tactics by the teachers. grow up. Unions, as much as they have done, have become a means of forcing the wants of singular groups.
Also, shame for using that bullying sign for the article...thats for children, not for greedy adults to spin.
speed7 9/18/2012 12:23:05 PM ReportShame to all you Teacher Hating Racists in here contually bullying teachers when they come in here to comment in their own defense. Like this is the first time you've seen protest signs and t-shirts in your life! I've seen far worse out there. What really is your issue? The sign or the issue itself? Cause you all ignore the issue and seem to twist the stories around pretty good! People like you who spread lies that make the profession look bad. Shame on all of you!
Seems like you all have become expert bully's in here.
JediMindTrick 9/18/2012 12:50:52 PM ReportSince when is this a RACE issue?
Teacher's do fantastic work and deserve a fair wage and fair compensation....which they already have more than enough of. I disagree with their tactics. Unions have just become juvenile.
speed7 9/18/2012 3:10:38 PM ReportIts not the teachers tactics its the governments underhanded tactics. You dont think the governement knew how to plan this out in their favour? come on.
speed7 9/18/2012 3:17:07 PM ReportAlso there is a difference when some one says its a "race issue" versus saying someone is behaving like a "racist". One is a noun the other an adjective. This was'nt a race issue and that isnt what I meant. I meant you are all behaving like racists ... meaning, adjective of the description of how you all behave.
Kelly Holley, president of the Algoma District Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario (ETFO), spoke to hundreds of area teachers, education workers, and their supporters at a rally outside MPP David Orazietti's office today.
