B Boy 9/13/2012 12:20:59 PM ReportARRGH! Making me late for work and/or meetings or even causing delays to emergency vehicles on a major traffic artery is not garnering support from me.
Tender34 9/13/2012 12:25:19 PM ReportIsn't a demonstration held in order to be seen and heard? Diverting traffic would be encouraging an opposite effect. Perfect !!!
clane 9/13/2012 12:27:54 PM ReportB Boy, you have meetings on Saturday? what kind. ALso the natives do this all the time why can't other groups?
lostinspace 9/13/2012 12:28:01 PM ReportThey won't be getting any sympathy from the majority of people- just losing more respect with every greedy move.
B Boy 9/13/2012 12:52:19 PM ReportClane - that's right I have meetings on Saturdays, and after hours.
I'm not a teacher and I don't get OT either.
Not all businesses run 9-5 monday to friday.
B Boy 9/13/2012 12:53:41 PM ReportFor the record I disagree when any group creates a negative or harassing effect on any other group.
KFM 9/13/2012 1:03:37 PM ReportFor the totally miss informed, this is not about money or sick time, it is about the democratic right to negociate. Your right to negociate. We do not live under a dictatorship so why is the goverment acting like we do?
lostinspace 9/13/2012 1:18:51 PM ReportKFM- please tell me you are not a teacher- although I have seen some with similar grammar skills.
Are you saying the EFTO is planning this demonstration in the name of democracy for all. Great!! I will be sure to tell my children when they see their teachers marching down Great Northern Road. Now I won't have to explain that it's not because they can't accept the same wage freeze as mom and dad (going on 3 years!). Or that they want to be able to strike and keep you out of school until they get what they want. God bless them!
speed7 9/13/2012 1:21:22 PM Reportlost in space they arent asking you for your sympathy. Its about the government dictating the unions in a very careless and selfish manner.
This really will have a negative impact on everyone especially when they become more powerfull and successfull at dismantling all unions in the public or private sectors. No union means no protection... and they can dictate everything including You and your job! Your rights! Your seniority! Your benefits! Your reitirement.... all gone!
But hey the government has to meet those fiscal targets. And the joke will all be on you ! Not the beurocrats..... YOU!
wskygrl1975 9/13/2012 1:24:08 PM ReportSo are all the students who walked out of class this morning going to up there with the teachers?? I highly doubt it!! Stupid kids!!!
dan 9/13/2012 1:28:51 PM ReportMaybe the teachers have to be taught a lesson. It is not wise to bite the hand that feeds you. The public is expecting value for their tax dollar, you are nothing more than civil servants expected to serve.
KFM 9/13/2012 1:34:28 PM ReportWhy stupid kids? they only walked to support teachers. Problem here is they don't know what it is all about. Miss information by the government and reaction by parents is what they see, but no one actually explains what is really going on. As Dalton said police and fire fighters are next. Better lock everything up and spray it with fire proof material.
Moto13 9/13/2012 1:36:02 PM ReportYou know, in my profession, I have more responsibility, longer hours, more strenuous and critical duties, not to mention lives I am responsible for, than teachers at any level do. Yet, I make half of what they do. We rarely ever strike. Why? Because we have chosen our careers for reasons other than money.We need a pay cheque, of course, which reflects our responsibility but we never complain about how we are underpaid. We want to be where we are regardless of the pay. I am tired of seeing over paid teachers complaining about how they are under paid. I would keep going with this little rant, but I'd be able to write forever.
Ocho Cinco 9/13/2012 1:45:00 PM ReportI am not a teacher ,but let us not forget!!It is not about hours or sports it is about the right to strike for what you think is right. We have all done that at some point. It's their right to stand up for what they think is right. We should all be behind that process?
MikeQ 9/13/2012 1:47:24 PM ReportWell unfortunately for all of you nay-sayers, this is Canada, where people have freedom of speech and democracy. If this group of individuals think they are being mistreated, or undervalued, then they have every single right to get together and voice their concerns with peaceful protest. AS THEY SHOULD! It is the principal of the thing, whether you agree with their motives or not, these are people with rights and freedoms, and should be allowed to express their concerns accordingly. I am not a teacher, nor do I work in the school board, but I am a Canadian, and believe that like myself, everyone has the right in this country to demonstrate their cause, whether I agree with it or not... that's what democracy is, and all of you people who are whining about being late or running into traffic, obviously don't understand how this whole thing works. Let them fight for what they believe in, whether you agree with it or not.
catmom 9/13/2012 1:49:21 PM ReportThe teachers are protesting the government's stripping back of their collective agreement AS WELL AS their refusal to allow us to negotiate a new contract with our employer. We are not protesting the content of the contract; we are prepared to to protest the government's illegal and unconscionable actions. Remember, that the next victim's of Dalton's power trip will be nurses, police officers and firefighters. If this is what he does with a minority, imagine what he would try to get away with if he had a majority government!!!
bluesslinger 9/13/2012 2:06:45 PM ReportI agree with their right to protest, but it doesn't make them look any less greedy to most people who don't get the ins and outs of their protest.
sarji 9/13/2012 2:09:41 PM Reportwe vote for our dictators, which makes us different from other dictatorships.
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 2:30:54 PM ReportFreedom of speech and democracy is great, same with the right to protest and right demonstrate. BUT - do it in a manner that isn't going to disrupt everyone else's lives! Driving down Great Northern Rd from 8am - 6pm is frustrating on any given normal day. This sort of selfish behavior is the reason teachers are losing support from the public in the first place - when are they going to realize that?
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 2:40:50 PM ReportCancel student extra-curricular activities and sports on Friday.
Saturday stage a demonstration and disrupt traffic.
What's in store for Monday - give students the silent treatment?
mr leahy 9/13/2012 2:41:15 PM ReportThis really burns me. This is only for 2 years..and personally this new act will save us 2 BILLION dollars..and most importantly putting children first.
When did becoming a teacher become so materialistic instead of being a teacher for the children. Don't you think that you make enough money? Don't you think you are very lucky to be home during all holidays and summers. Don't you think your retirement package is probably the best package out there? How much do teachers make a year? I know teachers can make as much or min ? $95,000.00 a year.
Now speaking about nurses, police and fire rescue. Please you can not compare. While you are bathing in Jamaica on march break with your family. Those individuals are saving lives, putting there safety first and some even being assaulted on a regular basis. Those individuals work shift work. Most of their days away from the ones they love and denied vacation regularly.
Nurses, police,and fire rescue are not allowed to strike, the reason being that if they did strike lives could be at risk ,it's imperative that they are constantly available. Personally, teachers should be ashamed of themselves. My god how many PD days does one need a year?
This is not "the right to negotiate", this about negotiating more money and benifits... Omg what is left to neotiate about ? Don't think we are uneducated, this goes on every year. Who is not tired of this behavior.. Shame on you. Be thankful you have a job..
In conclusion. This just goes to show you how selfish teachers are by protesting though a major artery to our hospital. Hopefuly no one needs to get there fast during this time. I am assuming they will be utilizing the police assistance as well for traffic therefore taking up their valuable time as well.
muf 9/13/2012 2:59:20 PM ReportWhen all the unions become non existent and John Q Public starts getting screwed over and over again maybe then people will understand. Likely won`t affect any posters here but think of your children or grandchildren. They will be the big losers. If anyone thinks big business actually cares about their employees they better take off the rose coloured glasses and look around. Good Luck to the teachers.
OrlandoFlorida 9/13/2012 3:01:35 PM ReportSo the teachers are upset about the right to negotiate a new contract, they fail to realize that many people in the private sector get whatever raise their company dictates. This also holds true for a large number of public sector workers who are not in a union. And yes there are public sector workers who ar not only not in a union but who had their wages frozen over a year ago when McGuinty called for a 2 year wage freeze. So while the teachers bemoan a 2 year freeze, non union public workers will have a 3 year freeze. This has nothing to do with teachers rights to bargain it's about MONEY, and insuring that their very lucrative pensions are not put in jeapordy. If new teachers take longer to rise up to their max pay scale this will affect the percentage of monies going into the pension fund, from both the teachers and the tax payers.
thinker 9/13/2012 3:05:03 PM ReportAs a retired teacher, I do NOT support the teacher unions who have not come to an agreement. Do you think that the public is really uninformed and will continue to support power hungry greedy unions who are protecting their jobs? The McGuinty government has caved in to teachers over the past 8 years and teachers, in general, have received a 25% increase. I think teachers could accept a pay freeze for two years to help with the Ontario deficit. Does the public know that teachers who have taught for only ten years and have obtained additional qualifications receive more than $94,000 a year PLUS paid benefits!!!! What the government proposed would not stop teachers with fewer than ten years from getting their 'step' increase which is at least $1500 a year.
Public, be informed. Our children should come first!!!!
speed7 9/13/2012 3:05:05 PM Reportleahy, 95 grand??? God you are so misinformed. Its just getting really too stupid now. You want to try teaching go ahead do it! But not at 95 grand , bud. So dead wrong there.
Motto"
"we never complain about how we are underpaid. We want to be where we are regardless of the pay. I am tired of seeing over paid teachers complaining about how they are under paid."
So why are you not stating where you work? So now your the messhiah coming in here saying you'll be the one to be paid less? And enjoy it? God! how silly..... where the hell have you been? Comin off saying teachers are fighting for more pay! That isnt what they are protesting . Get the facts straight. Just cause you work in another proffesion does not mean you are safe, the public or private sector will be attacked too so your not out of the picture just yet. Its nice to complain when it doesnt affect you.
wife 9/13/2012 3:10:41 PM ReportNo sympathy from this old woman.
They should take a 3 to 5% cut in wadges.
Bunch of pampered whiners.
speed7 9/13/2012 3:13:06 PM Reportthinker
" McGuinty government has caved in to teachers over the past 8 years and teachers, in general"
Dead Wrong the governement has been hacking and stripping awsy at educators and education in general for more than 8 years. The beurocrats are the ones who have always stayed the same. They have made increases in salary and have their political ties with the government. Not teachers.
Gee? Wonder why? Uhmm Hmmm?
Thought of the day for you?..... thinker.
speed7 9/13/2012 3:15:47 PM Reportwife
pampered whiners? I suggest you pick up a paper and read about what this article is about. The dont want your sympathy wife! Never askeed for it in the first place.
Menard6969 9/13/2012 3:17:13 PM ReportI love reading sootodays comments. It shows how stupid the general public really is. Does anyone read and research for themselves anymore? Clueless uninformed little sheep!
old-cat33 9/13/2012 3:21:43 PM ReportSo the government is fighting the teachers? WOW,now that's an eye opener......LOL!!
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 3:23:10 PM ReportSpeed7 ... you really are living in a different world than the rest of us. I have a friend who is a young teacher and he makes over 90k a year - I've seen his paystubs.
Also love how you play it that teachers are fighting for democratic rights ... that's right play it up that they are all honorable and dedicated. We aren't buying it - not when they take it out on the students.
Agreed that our government is far from perfect and reform is definitely needed but the issue at hand here is the teachers.
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 3:26:25 PM ReportIsn't the purpose of a demonstration to inform the public and gain their sympathy? lol Speed7!! Are you saying that the purpose of the demonstration is just to disrupt traffic? With every word you write on here you dig yourself into a deeper hole. You should quit while (I want say while you're ahead but you're actually quite far behind) so just quit.
speed7 9/13/2012 3:32:14 PM Report I hope McMilky and his "milking the public" premier gets stubbed like a cigarette butt. I support our Hard Working Teachers but NOT McMilky's lazy Beurocrats in the educational system. You know ... the ones who are robbing us all blind and laughing it off right now on all you parents coming in and posting your Hate Campaign against teachers? Go get em!
B Boy 9/13/2012 3:34:16 PM ReportWhat strikes me as funny is I remember all those teacher based ads telling us to support the liberals. These commercials were constantly crammed down our throats.
Remember the "Vote Against Kids" ETFO commercials? It's either all out against the evil PC or the evil Liberals. Does this mean that we'll have commercials crammed down our throats pressuring us to vote to the NDP?
How many millions of dollars was waisted by the ETFO (Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario) through these commercials?
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 3:36:55 PM ReportEnough said! What's a beurocrat? Oh you must mean bureaucrat ...
speed7 9/13/2012 3:52:32 PM ReportSorry for any of my typos. I type quickly on a small keyboard. It is spelled as beaurocrat. I checked.
I'm done.. you guys hold the reign now.
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 3:57:21 PM ReportYou can't even go out on a good note - please go to the link below and view the correct spelling - bureaucrat
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bureaucrat
muf 9/13/2012 4:05:31 PM ReportThinker...... does this mean you will accept a generous reduction in your generous pension and oh what the hell give back some of your sick days money you likely received at retirement ? you know to help reduce the deficit ........ya I didn't think so !...lol
nobodycares 9/13/2012 4:07:23 PM ReportHow about more home schooling.
This would solve the problem with over sized classrooms. We would
need fewer schools, teachers, buses and administrators.
Think of the savings
zardoz 9/13/2012 4:35:59 PM ReportGrow a pair teachers...and do a wildcat!!!
mr leahy 9/13/2012 4:52:55 PM Report"speed7"
It's obvious that you are in favor. Your aggression and anger states everything. In response to your quote of my $95,000.00 a year.
A retired school teacher just a few responses up.. stated "94,000.00" (Sorry about being a thousand off) And was disappointed as to what is being asked by the teachers....so in conclusion. An RN makes less than that at top wage, unless they work tons of overtime.. I do have a clue on what teachers make...and so does everyone else. Like I said..there are a lot of very educated and intelligent people in this city that have the right to be angered at this..enough is enough...if you have to complain every year..get a new job..Just saying..
mr leahy 9/13/2012 5:07:15 PM ReportBoo hoo. That's
what you get when you vote liberal. Fools
By your leave 9/13/2012 5:17:17 PM ReportAt least teachers aren't hurting the kids with this protest. And they're even putting in their own time and effort. Way to go teachers. This is a much more commendable form of protest.
Jimssm 9/13/2012 5:25:56 PM ReportTeachers are not asking for more pay, so let's everyone get that straight.
The unions that settled took a pay cut, as well as a cut in sick days.
The issue is the loss of collective bargaining and the cancellation of legally-bargained contracts that weren't yet expired.
By your leave 9/13/2012 5:59:14 PM ReportWhat are you talking about jimssm?
Teachers' unions had the ability to bargain collectively right up until the point at which the legislation was passed. Some did bargain. Why didn't even one of the holdout unions bargain a better deal before the deadline?
speed7 9/13/2012 6:06:35 PM ReportLeahy.... Never will I be in favor ... get it! If I get fustrated its with ingnorant people like you ! I am not giving up if you thought that was what I was saying. I was just getting tired of talking to bullies like you. You just chose to comment on here were its safe and a teacher hasnt stepped in to defend themselves yet. Wait a little longer. I'll be checking in.
You say brand new teacher is making 95,0000 a year is full of crap! Blowing hot air in the wind. I want to see those paystubs... send us a photo on here then? Support your statement then? Also what postion are we talking about that this person has? How long have they been a teachers for? What teacher would even give you their pay stub knowing what a teacher racist you really are? Well?
choniofthewoods 9/13/2012 6:08:04 PM ReportThe teachers have my full support!
mr leahy 9/13/2012 6:18:12 PM ReportGet to work Spoiled
mr leahy 9/13/2012 6:23:34 PM ReportSpeed7. You have a problem with your transmission. Stuck in first gear. Surprised? That's what the liberals do. Looks good to me. Get to work!
speed7 9/13/2012 6:49:55 PM ReportLeahy just what thought No documents to support your statemtent... like I am surprised or something? Teacher Racist!
mr leahy 9/13/2012 7:05:57 PM Reportdocuments? why would I need to show proof? Especially to you? I have a job. This is just amusing. Teaching is a cake job and 99% of the population knows it. Period. Go to work and maybe next time these supposed smart people in this profession won't vote Liberal....Once again...how are you surprised?
shju 9/13/2012 7:25:29 PM ReportEveryone is taking cuts, there is NO MONEY to pay public servants. The economy is in bad shape and everyone has to do their part. Just be thankful you are not taking pay cuts like the rest of the world does.
speed7 9/13/2012 7:27:53 PM Reportleahy who cares?
speed7 9/13/2012 8:00:32 PM ReportRight on shju! You got it.
Leahy does'nt get it. He's just playing the clique card. He just does'nt realize it and lives in his safe little bubble part of the world. McGunity has'nt touched him yet but he will be. I wanna hear his complaints then? Too Bad!
KFM 9/13/2012 8:19:13 PM ReportLeahy, join the teaching ranks if you think its so easy, find out how quick your cake can turn to mud, probably your kids leading the way!
speed7 9/13/2012 8:22:05 PM ReportRight on KFM! Tell it like it is!
Flooring King 9/13/2012 8:28:57 PM ReportIf you don't like the rules applied you don't have to strike.....you have the option to quit. If you have it so bad just quit....that is your right.
But the job/benefits are obviously too good because I have not heard of 1 teacher quitting over the issue.
Sweets312 9/13/2012 8:56:03 PM Report@shju - everyone is NOT taking cuts. Have you looked at the sunshine list recently? I know of a few, already high paid positions, that received as much as a 34% wage increase DURING this so called wage freeze. Why is it always the public servants that have to bend over while the rich get richer? I support the teachers and any other unions that are fighting for the rights we deserve...for our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I'm not a teacher and wouldn't want to be. They spend more time with kids than the families of these kids.
People need to realize it's not about money.
The purpose of this particular article is to give the city a heads up that traffic will be delayed. So, B Boy...if you are made aware that traffic will be delayed, maybe leave a little earlier for work then YOU won't have anything to complain about.
@wife - maybe you'll be protesting when they cut your old age pension and your stuck eating cat food.
speed7 9/13/2012 9:05:10 PM ReportQuit?
Watch out mcguinty they all quit! Maybe mcguinty can teach your kids now? No one else would seem to want to teach... since its such a cake walk of a job apparently?
Not a great solution there.
speed7 9/13/2012 9:14:39 PM ReportRight on Sweets! LOL on the cat food! Hand over some purina with that kraft dinner. But "Hey" lets all chip in and reduce this deficit! ROLMAO!
little lulu 9/13/2012 9:43:47 PM ReportOH.MY.GOD. Why on earth would you want to send your children to a place where they will be influenced by greedy whiners.....for the last time...THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY!!! THE PAY FREEZE WAS ACCEPTABLE!! Being told however to take it or leave it by our "education premiers" high priced lawyers (wonder how much they charge an hour...)is the problem...GET INFORMED PEOPLE OR QUIT SENDING YOUR KIDS TO SPEND TIME WITH THOSE YOU SO CLEARLY DESPISE!
AndyCap 9/13/2012 9:54:16 PM ReportSpeed7 Your too funny. A typo that you just so happened to typo approx 4-5 times? And than to go on to day you looked up the spelling. Ha. Sorry but this topic started to bore me. Protests? Sheesh, gimme a break. I'd sooner support welfare recipients protesting for better services. Teachers dont want a wage freeze and thats what this is all about. I dont blame them for not wanting one. Its nice to get raises but I just cant get behind this.
Norm 9/13/2012 10:06:19 PM ReportWe do live in a dictatorship, minus the
soldiers. And is miss informed a teacher yet to be married.
Norm 9/13/2012 10:07:38 PM ReportIs this mess Heather's fault?
speed7 9/13/2012 10:28:51 PM Report Andy cap you made a typo too.
"And than to go on to day you looked up the spelling" ???
Sorry if this is boring you. I never proffessed to be a perfect speller. As you see I would'nt make for a good teacher myself. I type really fast and miss things easily on this small laptop. But commenting on this board gets my writing and thinking skills a bit more sharpened up. Well, I think our goverment is aiming to touch into alot more than just teachers. I support teachers because I see how hard they work. Maybe that might not mean much to you but it does to me. It is very true that sometimes these kids bring weapons to the classroom and its scary buisness. Was trying to point that out to you. Every thing seems to get compared to teachers and your government is making you think that they are protesting just for their salaries. They are not. Its about the governement taking control over baraining rights. Would you like the governement to tell you today ok.. andy cap no more pension for you? Would that not make you upset? Park yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute and look at the other side of the fence. Anyhow you have your own opinion so I will accept that.
Have a great evening andy cap
Ginga 9/13/2012 10:47:56 PM ReportOnce again it's not about money it's about the charter of rights the government is trying to take it away.. I for one will be there supporting the teachers and the support staff. It is time to fight back
dan 9/13/2012 11:09:01 PM ReportThose who can do.
Those who can't teach.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 6:07:09 AM ReportThe unions that acted responsibly and settled with the government beforehand took a 1.5% cut and a 50% cut in their sick days.
Those that didn't settle (and many of you are calling whiners and greedy) get a pay freeze (0% cut)
Do you think those responsible, mature acting unions are happy with the gov't ? I doubt it.
The gov't should have left negotiations to the idividual Boards like it had always been done in the past. Then just limit what you transfer to the Boards and let them worry about teacher salaries.
This whole mess is going to the Supreme Court and the gov't will lose (just like in BC) after spending lots of taxpayers money.
nurse-boi 9/14/2012 6:57:21 AM ReportGood Morning,
When reading these comments it is interesting to read how much information is either inaccurate or missing. As a nurse, we do not get near the sick days that teachers recieve, the sick days we recieve are not banked, nor paid out when we retire. The union that is striking was offered the same as the unions that negotiated and worked with the goverment to ratify an agreement, they were offered 10 sick days a year without documentation and up to 120 sick days with a doctors note, hmmmm sounds pretty fair to me, so the statement of losing 50% of sick days is really not an accurate statement. When looking at the economy and the deficit, why is a wage freeze not acceptable when looking at restrusturing the education system? Other union affiliates have settled, and negotiated to allow junior teachers to actually still continue to move up the pay grid why is this considered to be knuckling under? The 1.5% that is being tossed out as a reduction in pay is delivered as 3 unpaid days for personal development activities to afford new teachers the ability to continue to move through the pay grid to minimize the impact of the wage freeze for those entering the profession, again missing information. Protesting the right to strike is that really what they are protesting? I and others have accepted a wage freeze in order for restrusturing, why is that other educated unions do not understand the economic state of our province?
mpa 9/14/2012 6:57:59 AM ReportI am not a teacher, nor a part of a union however but I support the union. The gains that unions have made in the last 50 years have benefited all of us. Our fore fathers fought for our basic rights, 40 hrs work week, vacation, benefits, health and safety and every labour law. I cant believe that the people with the amount of education are so blind to see that the huge corporations are slowing taking these rights away via politicians. People wake up and smell the coffee cause when one union loses they all lose and then the rest of us who don’t have a union get affected as well. Why do the politicians keep giving to the rich via tax breaks and taking from us? Has anyone dealt with our health care lately or I should say the lack of health care? One last thing before I go, its sad that when you are at the rink everyone knows every detail about the possible hockey strike however no one knows about the anti striking bill the Liberals just passed.
KFM 9/14/2012 7:43:19 AM ReportThat is all by Liberal design. How else can the cover up the 32 million they are paying out of tax money to cancell energy deals in Missasauga and Oakville just to make sure they retained those seats!
KFM 9/14/2012 7:47:19 AM ReportThat is all by Liberal design. How else can the cover up the 32 million they are paying out of tax money to cancell energy deals in Missasauga and Oakville just to make sure they retained those seats! Cause a crissis where none was with a group that in the public eye is contraverial at the least. We are damed if we do and damed if we don't. The puplic reaction is what Dalton wanted, taking the heat from his loose spending. People forget, teachers are taxes payers as well. It is also our money he is spending!
UniqueName 9/14/2012 8:02:26 AM ReportI agree that workers from any union should be allowed to negotiate any new terms to try and obtain what they desire.
What i don't agree with is "Striking" exspecially of it is damaging to peoples well being (students, parents, traffic) striking teachers has in the past allowed me to stay out of high school, college for at least 1-2 yrs and i had to obvioisly make up those 1-2 yrs all because of striking teachers thay wanted more money and better benefits, which T that time i agree they deserved, but.......................
Again go and negotiate all you want, but striking affects many peoples lives.
................................................................................
Go do your protest on this Saturday as i don't care as i am done my schooling and couldn't careless.
ttb 9/14/2012 9:13:48 AM ReportThank you everyone for one hell of an entertaining blog. Poor Canada though, I mean seriously people! Just because these blogs are anonymous does not excuse abject stupidity!
Read a newspaper, watch the news instead of entertainment tonight for a week and you might discover a whole new world.
guestwho 9/14/2012 9:36:04 AM Reportread a few blogs here & there ,so they`re not striking about money ,hours or anything,other than the right to strike,so how did they find out they couldn`t strike if they had nothing to strike about?
11:23 9/14/2012 9:55:10 AM Report I am a support staff at a school, no benefits, no sick time, no pension, no long term or short term. I get paid for two hours of work per day, at a reasonable but not abundant amount, and work my ass off. It so happens that I am grouped with the OSSTF, and am mandated back to work. I will not get a raise for two years, which is perfectly fine with me.
What is not fine, and should not be fine with anyone, is the government rolling in and taking away my reps. ability to negotiate a fair collective agreement on my behalf.
All the moans and groans from people here who complain about rich teachers should understand that its not only teachers grouped in this, its EA's Caretakers, Noontime Aides, Clerical, and Office.
One thing that I am sure to be more vocal about, is that my Union officially endorsed this government during the last provincial election.
I'm sure it doesn't make as glamourus an insult when the "rich teachers" aren't first and formost in your mind
right wing 9/14/2012 10:13:58 AM Report"The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan (OTPP) is incredibly rich. In fact, if it were a sovereign wealth fund, it would be the 12th largest in the world. The OTPP ranks up there with investment funds that own oil in Saudi Arabia, diamond mines in Africa and forests in Norway. The teachers’ pension fund is worth over $117 billion and made Ontario teachers just over $11.7 billion in profits, last year. Despite its immense wealth, Ontario taxpayers will contribute over $1.4 billion of education tax dollars, to the pension fund this year."
So how about the teachers pay off the provincial deficit, pocket change for them.
Ever notice nobody ever protests that they are getting to much.
11:23 9/14/2012 10:24:31 AM ReportWing,
Wonderful play on words. If you consider that education is publicly funded, the taxpayers pay the entire cost for each and every teacher.
I'm not sure what your point is, the same can be said for many professions, medical, political (although not fully public money, special interest money is private) social services, and on and on.
Soopaintballclub 9/14/2012 10:50:27 AM ReportUnfortunately, tax payers ALSO make payments into the PRIVATE pension fund for every single teachers retirement which is total bunk. How is it the taxpayers responsibility to pay into a private pension plan? It's NOT.....plain and simple. They retire wealthy, we retire on bare minimums. Let them pay their own pensions.
Government unions are not really unions. Negotiation for them is merely a formality. Everyone at the table on both sides gains from their gain. They're basically a mafia with men on the inside. I say appoint a panel of randomly selected citizens(non government employees) to handle all negotiations. Then they can keep their right to strike. If not, the strike is really just blackmail. We have an active jury selection system. Use it!
You'll notice many of the private unions out there don't even support the teachers union. They know it's a farce lol.
SipKing 9/14/2012 11:06:07 AM ReportProtest all you want, I do not have an issue with that. BUT interfering in my life and my travel route and slowing me down from my destination is not acceptable, The in your face public, we will force you to hear us attitude does not work. I recall seeing all the exposure when the HSCDSB took a PD day to go work at he soup kitchen, rake leaves etc. (I dont think that was the intention of PD Days but anyways) Lets not forget these teachers got PAID full salary for volunteering, great photo op. I am interested to see how many teachers will show up for the protest since they are NOT getting paid that day.
mvnnth 9/14/2012 11:48:30 AM Report"The gov't should have left negotiations to the idividual Boards like it had always been done in the past. Then just limit what you transfer to the Boards and let them worry about teacher salaries."
A recipe for disaster. Professional negotiators from the unions going up against the amateurs from the individual boards. That's not a fair fight. Add to that the boards might not be allocated sufficient funds to cover their contractual obligations with their teachers and you would have one helluva mess.
KFM 9/14/2012 11:58:42 AM ReportEver wonder why the teachers pension plan is so well funded? Just as and employer such as Essar does our employer funds what amount to a 35% pension at 35 years service. We, from our wages match that amount bring our pension to 70%. With the markets these days we have been over the past 9 years contributed more and more to maintain our pensions. Our employers contrabutions have not changed. So when you use that extra money to buy toys it comes off our pay as our retirement investment, just happens to be through our union under control of professional investors.
11:23 9/14/2012 12:11:51 PM ReportPaintball,
The only public pension fund is CPP and RRSP based pensions, which are based on private investments by a third party. (so technically, they are not public, although they would never turn our money away.)
To say that "we also fund private pensions", and make it sound outlandish is a bit of a stretch, given that all pension options supplied by an employer are private.
speed7 9/14/2012 12:13:38 PM ReportWho else has the power to write up some legisilation spending time and waiting money paying lawyers, advisors, accountants, etc.... to block teachers from bargaining with their union! The real people who truly benefit from this stupidity! This government is moronic, stupid, and is waisting precious time, money and does not care about your children or the classroom.
How much money waisted already? Breaking down the unions abilities to fight for their members is proposterous! We do not live in times of hitler and his dictatorship. This country has freedoms and we all have rights! Would you rather live in the middle east where teachers teach a classroom and gun shots going off in background? Ducking under the seat! That is where we are headed if all our rights are stripped away!
I might just pop by the protest tommorrow and blow my car horn in support! Support your teachers! Like others have said on here, they spend more time with your children than you do! They dont demand anything back from you parents. They give alot of their own time , money and expertise in support of your child's development in education. That is worth its weight in gold ! Remember that when your child graduates from university and says he/she was choose there career because they were inspired by there teacher/mentor in school.
speed7 9/14/2012 12:37:47 PM ReportI quote the newspaper directly for all you naysayers on here:
"The unions say the bill is an unconstitutional attack on their right to collective bargaining."
And it is....
Cheers!
thinker 9/14/2012 1:07:53 PM ReportNurse-boi,
great comments (and I am a teacher who believes that there should be a wage freeze).
speed7 9/14/2012 1:09:52 PM ReportKFM you are right
quote: That is all by Liberal design. How else can they cover up the 32 million they are paying out of tax money to cancell energy deals in Missasauga and Oakville just to make sure they retained those seats!
He paid off one of them 180,000 to step down so the libs can gain a seat not long ago and it backfired in mcguinty's face! Love it! The political games played ... people just dont get it !
The more that mcguinty gains his negative perception of educators the more powerfull he becomes with the public. That's how he manipulates public perception and they fall for it hook line and sinker!
speed7 9/14/2012 1:12:39 PM ReportNurse boi says she's a teacher? Huh????
speed7 9/14/2012 5:06:22 PM ReportSipKing,
"Protest all you want, I do not have an issue with that. BUT interfering in my life and my travel route and slowing me down from my destination is not acceptable"
No one is interfering with your life its a meeting at the water tower inn and then the protest walk to David O's office which is a short walk on great northern road. Dont drive by at that time then? It does not take long to wait or take an alternate route... simple!
Over the course of the past week I have been reading posts from people who basically have no idea what it is like to be an educator. I have heard ignorant things like " We Pay for teachers"! Teachers make the students pay! There are only crying for more pay! They need to pay for all these budget cuts! We pay for their pensions ... I dont get a pay or a pension like that! Why doesnt the government pay me a pension like that! The best was, hell ya I am jealous, I dont have a big house like they do. I cant afford it so why should they get paid so much ! If I dont they should'nt either! If I could afford to pay an electrician then I would have a big house too!
Listen to how you all sound? Sometimes I think the kids in the classroom have more tact than you parents! All your theories have been disproved by educators coming in here to set the record straight! Still you continue with your heckling moaning and groaning. Useless cliques, jealousy and verbal abuse towards teachers. I would never wish to know some of you personally. A bunch of venemous witches with broom sticks! Karma is coming back to you. Distorting the truth is all you know how to do. Talk ...and Talk your way into a dark pit if you wish till your faces turn purple. Have fun witches! Go sharpen up those broom sticks see you in traffic tommorrow on Great N Road! I'll be honkin to support our teachers !
:-)
right wing 9/14/2012 7:50:04 PM Reportspeed7 9/14/2012 12:37:47 PM Report
I quote the newspaper directly for all you naysayers on here:
"The unions say the bill is an unconstitutional attack on their right to collective bargaining."
And it is....
And it is because the union says it is?
I spent several hours reading through bill 115, tough go for sure, but I could not see where the bill is an attack on the right to collective bargain.
I also could not find where it prohibited strikes, all issues that addressed strikes referred to the Labour Relations Act of 1995, in short unchanged.
Bottom line is we have the teachers and their union making one claim and the Liberals of Ontario stating the opposite.
We will have to wait until the higher court rules to see who is correct.
Until then I believe it all looks great on the teachers and the union that backed McGuinty and his merry band, of course they were receiving bags upon bags of goodies then.
For those that would like to read it the link is below.
I would suggest you read it speed7 since you are such an authority on the subject.
http://tinyurl.com/8rzmh9k
lostinspace 9/14/2012 8:23:00 PM ReportWhat a waste of time. Orazietti won't be at his office on Saturday. Don't forget your black Gucci purses on your wear black catwalk teachers.
speed7 9/14/2012 9:26:40 PM ReportI Quote from the newspaper again,
The teachers will hold a strike vote Saturday, despite Bill 115's passing. Holley said the ETFO local is simply following provisions in the Labour Relations Act.
“It doesn't mean we're going on strike, it just means that we're legally obligated to hold a strike vote at this point in the process of bargaining,” said Holley.
The controversial Putting Students First Act, passed by McGuinty's minority Liberals with the help of Tim Hudak and Progressive Conservative MPPs, imposes a wage freeze and takes away teachers' right to strike for two years.
Holley said the wage freeze isn't the most important issue for teachers. She said the province rejected a wage freeze proposed during OSSTF negotiations.
“It goes far beyond wage freezes and strips to our collective agreement – this is a removal of collective bargaining rights, it's a removal of our rights under the Charter,” said Holley.
Like KMF said earlier , they do not care about the wage freezes that The putting students first act, Bill 115 implies. What they do care about is that this takes away a teachers right to strike for two years! Get it now!
You can read into this whatever you wish. I'm not an expert either.
What you really are actually saying when you post back to me with an article to read is that you want to catch me making a techincal mistake on weather this bill stops teachers from striking and then come back in here and bash me too! I am not a lawyer nor am I a union expert or government legislator. Even so, if you cant prove anything you will wait to see what happens then, you will come in here and bash me too! No matter you still will bash me in any senario. I know what I read in the 3rd paragraph above. That's all I know. Go talk to a lawyer or a union rep if you want clarification.
In any case, I support our hard working teachers, All ministries and the federal governement as well have been dealing with wage freezes period on and off. People still believe that the private sector makes less than the public sector. I think the private sector has caught up nicely.
If you want clarification maybe KMF can come in and comment on this for me or one of the others.
speed7 9/14/2012 9:31:51 PM ReportAre you still here lost in space
Go back to the future for awhile... you might be useful there ?
Gucci purses on the black catwalk? What a comedian. Well at least you had something funny to say today?
right wing 9/14/2012 10:43:48 PM ReportYou sound a tad "bash" paranoid.
Ask yourself, who is the news source quoting and who are the sources representing.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 11:08:01 PM ReportThe same thing happened in BC last year. It went to the Supreme Court.
The government lost.
You cannot cancel a legally negotiated labour contract.
For those of you saying O's office is closed Saturday....maybe....but he'll be there.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 11:16:09 PM Reportmvnnth
Fact is, negotiations with the individual boards always worked in the past. The contracts negotiated were always better suited to the local needs of the Boards and teachers involved. Example...I doubt the majority of teachers in Toronto care to negotiate Isolation Allowance, which would be important to a local teacher who gets assigned to Hornepayne or Hearst.
How many strikes have there been locally ? My wife was a teacher for 35 years and went on strike once. Now you will be dealing with possible strikes every 2 years.
11:23 9/14/2012 11:51:19 PM ReportJimSSM,
local Unions still have the ability to negotiate with individual school boards, for specific issues. Normally at a provincial discussion table situation, they collect all the "universal issues" and bargain them, leaving non monetary and specific regional issues to local table.
geterdun 9/14/2012 11:52:44 PM ReportThis Liberal dictatorship will FAIL!!!!!!!!This is an attack by the liberal goverment against the working class in the province. They have spent,stolen and pilfered about 20 BILLION dollars in the last eight years as a goverment.Now the plan is to attack the working class and have them pay it back.They continue to give breaks to the rich and continue to attack the working class??? WHY IS THAT????They dont care if your union or private sector they are simply starting with the unions because they know there will be a fight there. The private sector will be easily rolled over once they beat the unions to death.
This issue is about the gov taking away the democratic rights of those in this country.What did the gov think the unions would do when they did this just take it right in the back NOT!!!!!!! this will be the demise of the liberal gov. The conservatives and liberals will find out who runs this country and this province come the next election. The working class not the rich run this country and we will in the end win this issue by voting out a bunch of crooked politicians who couldnt care less about me and you. All they know how to do is steal our money and laugh in our faces!!!! So when do you and your gov. buddies lead by example and give up your benefits,perks and pensions Dalton?? YEA RIGHT DREAM ON SUCKERS!!!!!!!!! I will be there in support and will walk with these unions and will continue to fight back against this dictatorship gov every chance I get!!!!!!!!!!!! IN Solidarity !!!!!NOBODY GETS LEFT BEHIND!!!!!!!
speed7 9/14/2012 11:58:45 PM ReportTad Bash Paranoid? HaHaHa funny you are ....ahhhh No. I think you will find some inconsistencies when they speak to David O on the subject. He ignored a telephone inquiry to speak with the ETFO and now is making excuses saying he sent an email response to Hollen for comment. What happened to the phone then? Disonnected maybe?
Here's another good one:
Orazietti criticized ETFO for turning down a 2% pay increase in the last round of negotiations, when other teachers unions accepted it. He said the government could not offer the same raise this time. If they really wanted a pay raise in the first place then why did they not accept it? Intersting.
So 6 months later he says you didnt take the offer... what BS.
I dont like how this all sounds with David O. Sounds like lame excuses and twisting of stories to me? I think he is trying to make his bed clean now with public perception. "Suspicious" is all I think at the moment. Now I understand and am appaulled at the lies and twisting of the truth.
Orazietti said he has prior family commitments and does not plan to be at his office during the demonstration.
Nice support he's offering. Tells his lies and leaves the scene.
Orazietti said Bill 115 does not, contrary to what has been widely reported by media, contain provisions banning teachers from going on strike, though he said he hopes they do not take that action.
Mmmm... this sounds like it might be a set up job to me?
I'm not buying all this BS.
In the meantime
Go polish your broom sticks. Do something useful for a change. Maybe you can join lost in space and go back to the future together... with your black gucci purses on the black catwalk! ;-)
speed7 9/15/2012 12:50:38 AM Report Right Wing
Oh where am I getting the news from? Sault Star but I just checked other sources online like huffington post. toronto star. Ottawa Citizen .. they all say the same thing about the 2 year strike ban. There is no inconsistency amongst them all as far as I can tell.
Intruder 9/15/2012 9:02:01 AM Reportright wing:
obviously skimmed by this part of the act
Restrictions on strikes or lock-outs
(4) The board shall not lock out an employee, and an employee of the board who is represented by the employee bargaining agent shall not strike, during the period that begins on the day described in clause (2) (a) or (b) and ends on the day described as follows:
1. If the Lieutenant Governor in Council orders the parties to negotiate a new collective agreement under subparagraph 1 v of subsection 9 (2), the day before the order is made.
2. If no order mentioned in paragraph 1 is made, the day before the collective agreement given to the Minister under subsection (2) comes into operation.
Any references in the act "day described as follows" is a reference to the two year time frame of the of the Act.
KFM 9/15/2012 9:49:01 AM ReportIs an intereting quote by Dave in the paper this morning, he says the new bill does not take away teachers right to strike even though it specifically is written in 2 places. Dalton's distraction stratagy is working well, Ontarionorthland is no where in the papers. Slash and burn, back to the Harris years!
speed7 9/15/2012 10:35:00 AM ReportAre all you witches with broomsticks getting a tad bit paranoid!!!
Plasma you said teachers keep demanding more and more. Greedy was the word you used,
The fact remains things are being tafen away more and more and teachers are excercising their rights by fighting back! Now mcguinty wants to take that away as well! You have blinders on! Fact remains that if the government tries to do this to you....you would do the same as teachers are now doing, this is dirty underhanded politics!
It will effect you too eventually!
speed7 9/15/2012 12:26:05 PM ReportKRM youre right back to the harris years! The worst in the history of politics!
What's interesting is that Mr HUDAK and Mr Mcguinty both wrote up this legislation together for Bill 115 "put students first act". And the hecklers in opposition here say the same things over an over again.... "let take our country back again. Its only common sense? " You all realize this is Mr Hudak's position as well dont you? I read in the huffington post that when mcguinty was inerviewed about this issue ... the reporter described him as having a slithery laugh looking just like mike harris did back in the 90's when ontario was in a deep economic crisis.
Common sense revolution ?????
You want to take your country back and it looks like they are stealing it right under your feet!!!! You dont feel the rippling effects just yet but you will.... bank on it!
I've said all along the libs are behaving like the conserv's because they are playing the card to gain popularity. People are'nt stupid and they've caught on quickly.
thinker 9/15/2012 6:53:39 PM ReportWhy is it that OECTA came to an agreement with the government but the the public teachers walked out months ago after only one hour of negotiations? I stand with David Orazietti. Read today's Sault Star.
speed7 9/16/2012 2:25:52 AM Report I read it and its saying the same lies david o told the sault star yesterday. I dont see anything new that was said. Seriously thinker, what is your problem? You must have some serious chip on your shoulder about teachers especially when you admit bieng one?
Intruder 9/16/2012 7:27:05 AM ReportThinker:
OECTA came to an agreement because from what I have been told is that if the public board gets a higher wage increase then OECTA negotiated, then OECTA automatically gets an increase to match the public board.
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