pokey 9/12/2012 1:17:54 PM Report
For those about to complain. Police, Fire fighters, Nurses, Essar employees just to name a few get overtime. Then why shouldn't teachers get paid for their time.
Wheels17 9/12/2012 1:25:01 PM Report
What is Bill 115 and how is that fair to the people that do extracurricular activities? This is just another really stupid thing that the government is doing.
Right Winger 9/12/2012 1:26:47 PM Report
I thought it was all about the kids? And coaching sports is voluntary. You don't even need to be a teacher to coach.
W. Yote 9/12/2012 1:27:30 PM Report
Calculate the average hours per week in a 52- week year that teachers work. If its over 40 fine give them overtime. Fact is that its no where near but yet they get paid wages better then professionals that work all year.
As I said the only way this bill will harm our education system is through teachers poor attitudes. How many teachers are sitting in class right now telling their students to read on their own because they don't want to teach because their feelings were hurt?
PlasmaX 9/12/2012 1:29:43 PM Report
Pokey: Really? For one thing most of these activities are voluntary not mandatory. Secondly, teachers get more vacation time then almost any other profession - participating in some extracurricular activities is hardly going to bust the bank. Third by cancelling these activities the teachers are only hurting the students and their own children! They are using our youth as leverage against the government - it's disgusting.
mvnnth 9/12/2012 1:31:23 PM Report
I agree, that's why believe that extracurricular activities should be supervised/conducted by volunteers. So, for the football program, someone such as Mac Headrick could coach the teams. Someone with the knowledge, expertise and some passion and interest in the sport. Not, as in my highschool days, the coach was the history teacher who didn't know and couldn't care less about the program.
IB-fine 9/12/2012 1:44:00 PM Report
I lived thru several teacher/custodian strikes in the 1970's ~ didn't give me a good feeling towards the teachers at the time every time they cancelled extracurricular activities let alone when we had 2 strikes, one by teachers one by custodians. That only hurts the students not the government.
Although kudos to my math teacher who had classes in his rec room during the strike so we wouldn't fall behind!
I agree that this Bill should have never been brought in or passed, but there must be a better way to protest than to hurt the students.
Orazetti has alot to answer for MuGuinty's policies and taking from the poor and middle class while ignoring extra taxes on banks, insurance companies; who keep upping our rates and giving us less for our money.
Go tax the rich and high profit companies and cut their subsidies and grants, and leave the rest of us alone with your cuts, wage freezes and cutting of services!
clane 9/12/2012 1:45:22 PM Report
When teachers bring up the argument that they put in their own time for these extracurricular activities. The response usually is "No one is asking you to do this, if you don't want to volunteer your time then don't"
So the teachers refuse to volunteer their time and now the response is that they are being selfish and are only hurting the students.
Meanwhile the guy who imposed the legislation (which in all reality will be thrown out in court as it was in BC), is laughing.
thera 9/12/2012 1:47:04 PM Report
Welcome to the new government where it doesn't matter if you have unions, they'll just force a contract down your throat. They did it to Canada Post, they wanted to do it to the airline workers (they managed to hammer out a deal before it happened), now they are doing it to the Teacher's Union. Who's next?
polarbaron15 9/12/2012 1:51:33 PM Report
Great Job Teachers!
I may not necessarily agree with what the are fighting for. You should all be ashmed for not siding behind the teachers for their right to strike. It's a violation of their democratic rights. By allowing the goverment to legistate against striking, you are opening doors against the infrigment of your rights in the future. ex. Right to Protest and Right to assemble. I hope you strike in an act of civil disobedience, don't let them take away your right!
DOMAR 9/12/2012 1:52:51 PM Report
Thats fine. Make sure all the parents who paid $200 for their kids to play football get their money back ASAP. I know St Basil's football players had pay.
PlasmaX 9/12/2012 1:53:11 PM Report
If teachers were getting paid overtime to take part in extra-curricular activities you would see a lot of teachers who could care less about the activities but signing up for them just to make some extra cash. I believe it should be strictly voluntary - at least that way the passionate and dedicated people are going to come forward and coach sports and lead activities with kids.
pokey 9/12/2012 1:54:47 PM Report
Mr Yote - I am not a teacher but several friends of mine are. They do not get this $95000 salary which most people think they do. They are at work at 830 and on average work to 1600 or later. They come home and spend several hours marking and lesson planning. Plus several their nights or weekends running sports, clubs, dances, and planning trips for the students. Now up all this unforseen time plus what they already work.
Hya 9/12/2012 2:00:00 PM Report
To W.Yote - For your information, my sister is a teacher and she works waaay more than 40 hours per week. You seem to be forgetting that not just the kids have homework, the teachers do too. They have to prepare lessons, tests, some do spreadsheets etc. depending on what subject they're teaching. They have to also review, mark and/or correct the homework that they give the kids daily. They have to deal with the kids personal issues at home and at school and then take the time after school to meet with the parents and that happens at least 3 times a year. At the end of the year, do you have any idea how much time and effort and reviewing goes into each and every kid's report card? Oh, and let us not forget the teachers who teach summer school and coach the sport teams after school etc. My sister, does ALL of the above, so unless you are a teacher or live with one personally, I suggest you get your facts straight regarding how much teachers EARN, never mind how much they are paid.
Right Winger 9/12/2012 2:03:58 PM Report
About half of my coaches in high school were not teachers.
As to striking, government employees should not have the right to strike. They are not like the auto worker or even carpenters where both sides have something to lose in a work stoppage. Only the government and the public lose. Why? Because at the end of a work stoppage the government worker is not losing his/her job to a competitor, while a politician will. So it is only in "managements" best interest to settle to ensure the public's needs continue to be met, or they stand a chance to be voted out.
sambo 9/12/2012 2:04:51 PM Report
Teachers stay home. Parents and students still attend the activities.
learningaswego 9/12/2012 2:07:14 PM Report
....because it's all about what's best for your kids.
Seriously. They said that.
molder2 9/12/2012 2:07:20 PM Report
W. Yote 9/12/2012 2:09:34 PM Report
Not all are making 95K, some are. Not all are doing extracurricular, some are. But if we talk averages over a full year of all teachers there is no way they are over 40hrs a week which is why I have no problem saying pay them the OT because very few of them will get it! Mind you, all the other teachers should be docked for every hour less than 40... Again talking averages for the whole year.
PlasmaX 9/12/2012 2:12:15 PM Report
Well said Right Winger! Teachers wield far too much power over the government and they know it.
Also to people that say that teachers spend time marking and lesson planning. That is part of their job and i'm pretty sure they were aware of it when they signed up. I too go home at night and still have to respond to trouble calls and do extra work - I don't get paid overtime but that was all in the job description when i was hired. Of course it would be nice but i'm certainly not going to threaten to strike or take other measures just because I feel I can get away with it.
iLash 9/12/2012 2:14:34 PM Report
People I don't think realize how much time teachers really do put in. They are at work till 4 pm everyday or later. They bring their work home with them. They are working into July and going in two weeks before in August to set up their classrooms. They have after school meetings, parent/teacher, sometimes christmas or talent shows(after school hours), sports and a variety of other events. Sometimes when your child has a PA DAY they are busy at work. Maybe they should stop taking children on end of year trips as well. People making it sound like teachers have it easy obviously have NO CLUE! They also are with students almost more than a parent is during the week. They DESERVE what they get and more. What is going to happen is the government is going to scare away potential future Teachers and we will end up having barely any. I'm tired of Canadians just sitting back and letting this government do what they please and ruin our country!
PlasmaX 9/12/2012 2:23:43 PM Report
iLash: No one said teachers have it easy - I know a lot of hard-working teachers but your little spiel was a bit of an exaggeration in most cases. What most of us are saying is that teachers are well compensated, great benefits, great pension, great vacation. They know what they are getting into when they get hired and they shouldn't be complaining. Teachers in Canada make a great deal more money than teachers in the U.S. and they are never happy.
Right Winger 9/12/2012 2:24:13 PM Report
iLash, I think you are talking about teachers with less than 5 years under their belt. Also, we won't run out of teachers or people who want to be teachers. Good pay, good hours, 2 weeks off at Christmas, on week in march and 2 weeks in the summer. Great pension, and something like 10 sick days per year. Ya that sounds like working conditions worth striking over. But always remember, its about the kids.
W. Yote 9/12/2012 2:26:23 PM Report
Hya - not that you will believe me anyways but I have lived with three working teachers in my lifetime, and have many friends who teach or are married to teachers. Some work hard, others not so much. But we need to talk averages, everyone knows that ONE teacher that is super dedicated. Some need to mark tests at night because they were streaming the hockey game at their desk while their kids had a work session and busy socializing during their PREP ( true confessions from a real life teacher!)
catmom 9/12/2012 2:34:35 PM Report
The teachers are angry over the imposition of a contract, without the opportunity (which is guaranteed by the Canadian Charter) to BARGAIN COLLECTIVELY!!! Anyone working in Canada should be frightened by Dalton's draconian tactics - union busting is alive and well in Ontario and all workers should be on alert. Eeny, meeny, miney, moe- who is next - nurses, police, fire fighters, MNR, MTO, etc.?
W. Yote 9/12/2012 2:35:18 PM Report
Holly crap! 830 (read 845) till sometimes after 4!! I take it all back! Haha Further proof that teachers are too far removed from reality.
mvnnth 9/12/2012 2:40:01 PM Report
I agree with whoever said that the public service (and that includes teachers) should not be permitted to withdraw their services. As to their rights being violated, because they can't strike, I would point to the fact that fire and police services don't have that right and never have had it. I'd say that they have been properly compensated over the years and I would bet they would agree. In my opinion this legislation did not go far enough in that regard. Let them keep their unions if they wish but ban strikes against the public.
rione 9/12/2012 2:48:30 PM Report
This really sad…the only people missing out here are the students. Way to go teachers!!!! It is apparent that you really care for the kids, cancelling events in protest. You should be embarrassed by executing such actions. It’s not the kids that deserve your greedy demonstration. Teachers are still getting paid for today…no? You should feel lucky to have such a cushy job in today’s economy. Everyone else is taking a wage freeze right now. I guess the 90K isn’t enough? How many sick days do you need? Carrying over sick days year after year only to be paid out or retire early is another example of greed that comes out of the taxpayer’s pocket. As for overtime, you need to work at least an 8 hr work day to even consider overtime and the two weeks at Christmas, every single stat holiday, and the summer vacation that you also get off should be factored in there. I understand about collective bargaining, but being so far apart with the greedy and powerful teachers union what else can be done. Its not like they’re being treated like employees from the 1930’s.
GotRotties 9/12/2012 2:52:30 PM Report
SO you think that teachers dont deserve to get paid for work they do?? Do you expect to get paid for the work you do? Do you think they dont work 40 hours? would you be able to prove that you worked 7-8 hours "in class" a day and do it in front of an audience of 30? ..lets face it unless youre a teacher you couldnt possibly know how much time a teacher puts into class preparation, how much time they spend correcting papers and meeting with parents. Every summer is spent upgrading their teachables and isnt ALL holiday...if you get 4-5 weeks a year do you have to volunteer to use that time to upgrade your job?? no?? are you expected to volunteer your time to coach your bosses kids in sports? then dont expect it from teachers. The teacher in my family works hard at his job, he takes kids on canoe trips,skiing, trips to the Toronto Museum, he coaches football, hockey and baseball.. he goes to work for 8 and doesnt come home til after 3...thats 7 hours and then he has the extra curricular, the class prep and the marking...I bet all the complainers on this site would really miss their kids sports if the teachers stop coaching...not to mention the fact that our teachers out teach the United States teachers by a long shot..if thats the kind of teachers you want...you get what you pay for...ps...the teacher in my family has been teaching for some time and still carries a hefty student loan that has yet to be paid down, 6 years of university isnt cheap!!
rebel469 9/12/2012 2:55:10 PM Report
If anyone thinks that what the Government did is fair, give your heads a shake. There is more to this than you see in the news. The teachers had a lot taken away, mostly their rights. My mother is a teacher, works with special needs, and what the government is doing is a joke. If they can do it to the teachers, heads up to every single working person out there, you're next.
RonBes 9/12/2012 2:57:09 PM Report
Again folks, this isn't about time, overtime, pay, or benefits. Those are issues at stake here, but primarily, the reason Bill 115 should make you angry is that it tries to take away the right of the workers to strike. People died to make these gains, and had they not done this, unionized or not, we would be living in a very different world right now.
Moan and complain about teachers and how good they supposedly have it all you like. They have a pretty good deal, no doubt, but why do you want to see that taken away from them? You will moan even harder as working conditions begin to slide back to 3rd world levels, not only for them, but for non-unionized people as well. Maybe for the older generation this is not a concern. For their kids and grandkids, it certainly is.
Power concedes nothing without a fight. Left to their own devices, the so-called 1% would have almost everything and leave the 99% to fight for the leftovers (read almost nothing).
DannyC 9/12/2012 3:01:17 PM Report
To all the complainers on this forum… you’ve all had, and still have the opportunity to apply to Teachers College. If you think it is so luxurious, then leave your job, put the year in, and apply! Then you could experience first hand the commitment it takes in being a successful teacher. And then you can all enjoy the “perks” that you believe go along with the profession. I find it ironic that most people who comment in these sootoday forums can't really be that busy at work... they have enough time to comment on each and every article posted on here. You know who you are...
Right Winger 9/12/2012 3:01:36 PM Report
Ok so what we then should do is, when have all teachers arrive at 8:30 am and they can leave the grounds at 4:30 pm. If they are being productive beyond 4:30 pm then they can get overtime. And of course they will have to all work the outside school hours in a common room that the principal will supervise to ensure the teacher is being productive beyond 4:30.
Right Winger 9/12/2012 3:03:07 PM Report
Funny, that I do see people in their 40's switch careers to be teachers. Hey dude if you don't like the work you don't have to be a teacher. None of the responsibilities associated with the job were sprung up on you
pokey 9/12/2012 3:11:29 PM Report
Just wondering what a General employee at Essar makes with a grade 12 education?
KFM 9/12/2012 3:15:23 PM Report
For all who are bashing teachers now, the government has succeded in diverting the public eye to a group that few understand and fewer would want to be. If it is not deserved as teachers to get the time why is it mandated that that is when summer holidaies are. The reason goes back to farmers and the fact that farm children are needed then. Look at what the government is trying to cover up. And look at thier numbers. All of thier talk about September first to raise anger with the public and guess what September fisrt came and went and we did not get any raise nor did it cost 750,000 as they said. The protest and action would have been avoided if this bill handn't passes, we would have negotiated as in the past. Thery have set a bad president in that other employers may now start doing the same thing. Back to the early 1900's. We are actually standing up for all workers rights in this province, we just happen to be the front line.
PlasmaX 9/12/2012 3:15:43 PM Report
DannyC: LOL - not everyone works an 9 to 5 job! You comment about other people not being busy enough at work yet you are posting here as well. If you don't like what you see and you can't come up with any intelligent arguments then refrain from posting again.
DannyC 9/12/2012 3:21:55 PM Report
PlasmaX - did you not get into teachers college this fall. lol
KiwiOnASticK 9/12/2012 3:24:31 PM Report
Cancelling student events only hurts students, not MPP's or government officials. How does this help the situation? Maybe teachers need to go back to school to learn basic logic.
If they really wanted to protest, teachers should stop working and only participate in the after school programs. Then the children that teachers claim that they care about would not be punished. But then the teachers also wouldn't get paid, which seems to be their #1 priority from the public's perception.
Right Winger 9/12/2012 3:26:10 PM Report
Nice try. I don't think you are a teacher, but if you are, I feel sorry for your students. Nice spelling and grammer.
PlasmaX 9/12/2012 3:33:34 PM Report
DannyC: Did your boyfriend turn you down last night? Why would i apply at teacher's college when i'm 10 years into the career of my choice which is secure, rewarding, and pays great.
SipKing 9/12/2012 3:52:34 PM Report
There are 194 instructional days that equates to being off 171 days a year, plus personal time off and sick days, at a $60K salary that comes to just over $47.00 per hour. (based on 7 hours a day 8:30am - 4:30 pm 1 hour lunch) On top of that the teachers get prep time, holy cow, Where I work I do not get prep time, I do make $75K a year but I work 232 days a year and 9.5 hours a day and to add insult to injury a teacher with 28 years just retired and got a $20,000 retirement bonus and got paid out for her sick days she banked. OUCH.... Lastly, in my business as in most people get fired/let go all the time, when was the last time a teacher was let go, you can't tell me all hires have been perfect, it just seems once they get hired you can't get rid of them no matter how bad they are. Ok one last thing, why do we have TWO boards, a large percentage of students attending catholic schools don't even go to church nor have completed sacraments so remind me again why we have two boards,
Point Blank 9/12/2012 4:18:38 PM Report
It appears that the pouting teachers are less mature than the children that they are paid (very well, I might add) to teach.
I guess they are going to take their bat & ball and go home.
If they can't have everything that they want, I guess the kids will be used as pawns and/or suffer as a result.
Pity. What an example they are setting.
muf 9/12/2012 4:38:39 PM Report
The Right To Work is coming in Ontario. Then all the union haters will have something to smile about. Until things slide further down the toilet than they already have that is . Bahaha
Pink Peony 9/12/2012 4:44:06 PM Report
Point Blank, agreed. Using the kids as pawns in this is low and the teachers won't get my support that way.
KHL 9/12/2012 4:49:10 PM Report
SipKing - Your math is flawed as you seemed to neglect that there are weekends for all employees whether you teach or not; therefore, teachers do not get 171 days off as you seem to suggest.My calculation of 365-194 instructional days =171. 171 -104 for weekends (Thank you, unions for fighting for those) looks like 67 to me. Yes, it is more than most but please don't try and make it seem like almost 24 weeks of a year. I am not sure if you included weekends for yourself. I wouldn't want you to be shorted. Check your math.
RightWinger - grammer is GRAMMAR. Check your spelling before you critique others.
Newsjunkie 9/12/2012 5:18:09 PM Report
It's a ONE DAY boycott to make a statement. Extracurricular activities will continue as usual tomorrow. For those of you who have never heard of Bill 115 or not bothered to read it...Got your attention didn't it?
This is about civil liberties being taken away and due process denied. I am a teacher, but it's the rest of you who should be afraid. Who do you think is going to be next? As teachers we have a civic responsibility to hold our government in check when it infringes on the rights of our future citizens. You think it's US using kids as bargaining chips? Do you think it is an accident that bill 115 is called the 'Putting Students First' Act? McGuinty has been holding our good will hostage since the beginning of this. HE is the one who choose to use students as Blackmail against teachers to fulfill his agenda.
This fight has nothing to do with pay freezes or sick day reductions (we agreed to both items last spring and offered a FOUR year contract, but he turned it down). McGuinty just wants the public to think that so he can accomplish his REAL plan while no one is looking. Educate yourselves before it is too late.
Sweets312 9/12/2012 5:22:16 PM Report
Aside from the fact that Bill 115 is taking away so much, teachers are raising your children. They spend more time with your children than you do. I'm very thankful to the teachers my children have had. I couldn't do that job, not for all the money in the world. People seem to think that unions are all about fighting for more money. That is usually on the bottom of the list. It's to fight for equality, human rights, fairness etc. We need to stand behind the teachers in this fight. Be angry at the government. How many women, children, disabled, public workers, do they use to get what THEY want??!! If we take the blame away from the government soon there won't be a society with rich, middle class and poor. It will be simply rich and poor. It's time to push back. It's time to fight the bullies of the government! Cancelling sporting events for ONE day (God forbid you have to sit and have dinner with your child or pick them up from school and spend more time with them) is to bring awareness to what the government is doing to ALL. It's not about the teachers hurting your children, it's about the GOVERNMENT hurting your children.
speed7 9/12/2012 5:47:12 PM Report
I say lets spend less time on football and more time on childrens studies. Yes matter of fact,that's a much better plan.
myself 9/12/2012 5:52:19 PM Report
Newsjunkie and Sweets,thanks for posting the facts! Most people on here don,t have a clue of what the actual issues are and are to lazy to find out before yappin on here. I am a union member,but not a teacher and this bill is very concerning for all of us. Time to tell these Donkeys in Ottawa enough is enough. It,s a dictatorship more than anything.
By your leave 9/12/2012 6:02:20 PM Report
So these volunteer coaches aren't showing up for games and practices?
Okay, the solution seems simple enough to me: Get new coaches who will show up for all of the games and practices, and don't let any of these irresponsible volunteers coach anymore.
Who needs irresponsible coaches anyway?
Sweets312 9/12/2012 6:09:41 PM Report
Wow...your really have no clue what this is about. You should read the articles before making an ignorant comment. It's not about the coaches or the games or volunteering. It's about fighting for the rights of ALL people, including these highschool kids that can miss one game. Seriously, it's very frustrating that so many people don't have a clue what unions have done for them over all these years...whether you're in a union or not.
Jimssm 9/12/2012 6:32:38 PM Report
So let me get this straight.....
The teachers unions that bargained and settled with the gov't took a 5% pay cut and cut their sick days in half. Those unions that reached an impasse with the gov't and didn't settle got their pay and sick days frozen at present levels.
In other words the gov't is punishing those that acted responsibly ? If I were in that union it would be the last time I volunteered to take a hit to help McGuinty out.
By your leave 9/12/2012 7:00:55 PM Report
I am fully aware of what bill 115 is all about Sweets312.
Personally I think McGuinty should have given the Boards instruction to put forward a deal-breaking clause in all teacher contracts that the maximum teacher salary be $65,000, and then let the teachers walk the line until they agree and/or go broke. Kids would only lose a year of schooling at worst and Ontario would eliminate the deficit that much more quickly. But with the passing of Bill 115 McGuinty wants to begin to reduce the deficit and doesn't want a single kid in Ontario to lose a day of school because of striking teachers.
As for the ADSB teacher's union cancelling all highschool related extra curricular games and practices where their members are VOLUNTEERS, well that just means that those volunteers care more about using their volunteer positions for political gain than they care about the kids on the teams they are volunteering for.
Volunteers who jeopardize their teams' seansons by not showing up for games and practices need to be replaced with volunteers who care about their teams.
GotRotties 9/12/2012 7:17:51 PM Report
sipking...the problem is exactly that..the government is taking away bankable sick hours...that means they cannot go to work everyday and hope to get a bonus at the end ~~why?? because they lose their sick days..so if you were going to lose a sick day in all honesty what would you do?? you would take that sick day...that means the government wont be saving any money they will just be giving it to somone on the call list~ a supply teacher...some of the stuff the goverment wants to do doesnt even make any sense...and one more thing, why when public or highschool teachers want to strike the public cries foul..saying " they dont care about the kids...what about the kids...we thought it was all about them"...well you didnt cry foul when the university teachers went out..why is that? because THAT education isnt "free" and what about when nurses strike...dont THEY care about their patients? seems like a lot of double standards here..education isnt an essential service..or is it?? I mean you let your kids skip school take time off for family vacations dont you? it cant be all THAT important...if it is then support your teachers...they are the ones that are REALLY raising your children sad at that might be.
Sweets312 9/12/2012 7:24:02 PM Report
Maybe McGuinty should take a pay cut. Maybe they should stop making the rich, richer and the poor, even more poor. These teachers spend more time with these children in a day than parents spend with their children. My kids were involved in all kinds of sports and let me tell you, I could care less if they missed a game or two. I would be more concerned if they were out of school for a year...only to balance the budget for the government that continues to make bad choices on many, many issues. I have a disabled sister that is being punished by the choices this government makes. So many less advantaged people are struggling more and more because of the decisions this government makes. And you're concerned for these kids because they are missing a sporting event? That is not what will carry them through life. Quality education will, however. And that will not be accomplished if we continue to elect these idiots.
speed7 9/12/2012 7:39:23 PM Report
Right on Sweets! Keep up the good work !
speed7 9/12/2012 7:51:25 PM Report
Got Rotties! Good for your comment! Very right you are! I am glad more people are poring in and getting the facts straightened out. Those sick days are the only thing teachers have ... no short term or long term dissability. So yeah.... I think that is an important point to make that most people do not know about teachers. If they become seriously ill and the governmnt takes sick days away, then where would they be able to get paid sick time from? I would sure as hell be upset too. Meanwhile any other joe blow working somewhere else gets 2 years of short term dissability pay . But that's ok though. Not for teachers ..... yeah right. Talk about discrimination.
Norm 9/12/2012 7:56:00 PM Report
Essar employees might be more important than at least some teachers. They keep the city alive and vibrant. The mill is the reason people are buying big ticket items. A steelworker is worth every bit as much as a teacher.
speed7 9/12/2012 7:57:55 PM Report
by your leave,
telling an employee to walk the line or go broke ? Now that is a good one. What if you were seriously ill and your employer is allowed to descriminate aganist you and tell you to walk the line or go broke. Too bad you have cancer, if you cant come into work ... ciao bella Pretty soon if there are no unions let me tell ya hun, you will walk the line and go broke for sure. If you like what the government is doing to unions these days you must have blinders on? Seriously.
speed7 9/12/2012 8:02:10 PM Report
norm essar steel no longer a canadian corporation anymore. Remember, Algoma Steel the company that the governement gifted to another country....like Essar? For now its all rosy posy... wait awhile longer and see what happens.
mememe 9/12/2012 8:03:07 PM Report
Been in the Education field for over 20 years...have yet to see any teacher sleep their entire shift away while the supervisor keeps an eye out...Essar...different story...can't compare apples to oranges!
Norm 9/12/2012 8:04:24 PM Report
The teachers union always loved the Liberals, now that the province is billions in debt, the teachers now hate the left. I'm not a Mcguilty fan, but he was forced to stand up to the teachers. He very seldom shows any kind of backbone.
Newsjunkie 9/12/2012 8:06:41 PM Report
You did not get it right. ALL teachers in Ontario (and trust me the members of OECTA are NOT happy that their union leaders signed the deal for which they received NO input or vote) are having the SAME 'deal' imposed, regardless of whether they caved in or were forced into it. It amounts to a 1.5% pay cut and loss of all banked sick days (which I earned by not taking them when I could have, while others reaped the benefit of more days off). Most boards DON'T have a retirement gratuity plan and if they do it is grandfathered so that only a few who are close to retirement are even eligible for it. There really isn't much to save here. Good thing McGuinty's wife claimed her gratuity last year when she retired. I doubt he is making her pay it back.
If you want the true facts, do some research and look at the change in McGuinty and all MPP's paycheques since 2003. In 2003, McGuinty earned $135,000. Today he earns $208, 974. That's a 54.5% increase over 9 years... and most of the Ontario legislature has seen raises of the same percentage in that time period. Wonder why Ontario is now in a deficit position - it's not because of TEACHERS' salaries.
Norm 9/12/2012 8:06:55 PM Report
Mem, until then, let's get out and buy that F150 while we still can.
Newsjunkie 9/12/2012 8:13:50 PM Report
Norm - There is more to 'contributing to society' than simply buying stuff. I know Essar employees that make more than I do as a Teacher and have worked there half as long. These same Essar employees work 4 days out of every 8 AND get at least 6 weeks of vacation time each year. They got their jobs straight out of high school without any post secondary education or debt to repay.
I spent 6 years in University and incurred student loans that took 15 years to pay back. My starting wage as a teacher was $29000. The manager at McDonalds made more money than I did. It takes years for teachers to earn enough to make the University degree they had to earn worthwhile. Who would even bother if the pay at the end couldn't pay for the cost of the qualifications?
catmom 9/12/2012 8:14:32 PM Report
Hey Jimssm, here is some info that you probably didn't know. The unions who settled with the gov't, like OECTA, have a "me, too" clause. This means that if any other union, such as ETFO, negotiates a better deal later on, OECTA gets the better deal. So really, do they have anything to lose? Of course not!! They sign an agreement early, which garners public support but can still benefit from any advantages earned by other unions' bargaining.
medsec 9/12/2012 8:16:05 PM Report
Whatever happened to walk a mile in my shoes then you can judge me, McGuinty hopefully will never get in again, its his mess, everybody else has to pay, how about a freeze on MPP pensions and how about a McGuinty pay freeze, any comment David O?
Newsjunkie 9/12/2012 8:43:17 PM Report
I would be curious to know how David O. voted on this bill... seeing as how he'll have to go back to teaching (and a significant pay cut) if he loses the next election...
mememe 9/12/2012 8:49:36 PM Report
David O. voted in favour of the bill
By your leave 9/12/2012 9:05:24 PM Report
Yeah Sweets312, they should cut McGuinty's pay from $200,000 to $100,000 then we would only have a 14 Billion, 999 Million, 900 Thousand dollar deficit. Good plan Sweets312. I hope you're not a math or business teacher.
FYI Speed7 all teachers get Long Term Disability coverage. Cancer is covered.
I say let the teacher's unions bargain with the boards for a $65,000 a year maximum. Let them go on strike if they want. The people of Ontario can't afford teacher's inflated compensation pacakages. We're spending 15 Billion more than we have each year for crissake.
Jimssm 9/12/2012 9:09:05 PM Report
They may have a 'me too' clause BUT that doesn't help them until the others settle. In the meantime, they are behind those whose salaries were frozen.
And the AEFO contract signed doesn't have a clause like that.
speed7 9/12/2012 9:30:23 PM Report
By your leave, I dont think they get LTD and cancer is covered. I know one with breast cancer and she didnt have the coverage? What are you talking about?
speed7 9/12/2012 10:07:23 PM Report
I would suggest everyone not respond to yote. He is what one would call a board aggrevator and loves to do this on purpose. Hes been posting all kinds of false information on teachers in previous posts. He has no knowledge about teaching and the proffession. Dont feed into his comments. He or she just seems to likes the attention that he didnt get in school himself probably. You know, that school in his dreams that he never showed up for probably. LOL!
mon 9/12/2012 11:11:18 PM Report
The base salary for an MPP is $116,000 and they make more money if they hold posts such as cabinet minister, house leader, deputy leader, party whip or committee chair.
Compensation packages begin at one-half of an MPP's annual salary. Those who serve more than eight years, such as Hoy, are given a payment equal to one-and-a-half times their annual salary when they leave.
Hoy said that for him, it worked out "to a little less than $200,000."
In addition, MPPs receive a percentage of their salary each year that goes into a locked-in retirement account (LIRA) that they can match and direct where they see fit. Currently, the amount is 10% of an MPP's salary.
McGuinty increased his salary from $159000 to $202600. So they included an obscure provision in the legislation that fattened their paycheques, ensuring that whenever MPs get a raise, politicians in the Legislature get one, too.
They are the highest paid MPP's in Canada.
mon 9/12/2012 11:17:09 PM Report
sumosah 9/13/2012 6:41:19 AM Report
I get it and the right to strike should not be taken away the one day cancellation of extracurricular activities I dont if you are going to do that then do it ... the poor kidsfrom white pines and superior heights suffered and that will what those students will remember the other schools and students didnt and wont give a rats ass ... do it across the board and see the uproar it will give to parents students and the community and then results may be had from more than just the teachers ... only my opinion ...
Sweets312 9/13/2012 7:17:24 AM Report
It's ONE day. It was to bring attention to what the government is doing to the people, yet again. What about what they take away from people? These kids don't bring in an income from playing. I'm pretty sure they will even have a make-up game. What if there was a huge storm and the games were cancelled? Will the kids be "hurt" because they couldn't play then??? Come on now, people focusing on the kids missing ONE game is ridiculous. It's a game. It's one day. It's not the end of the world. Let's hope they used the time to study or get ahead on some school work. The things that are going to get them a decent job in the future...unless the government continues to take THAT away. Turn your focus to where it was meant to be with this...to the government.These teachers and hopefully more unions and non-union people trying to put a stop to their bullying tactics and trying to stop them from taking away so many things that our grandparents worked so hard for us to get.
Right Winger 9/13/2012 8:13:22 AM Report
I am guessing the girls East West game won't be made up, and East West in all sports is a big thing, especially those in grade 12.
Again I state that public sector workers should not have the right to strike, or for that matter be locked out. We as the tax paying public do not have other options when these services are withdrawn unlike in the private sector. I can't take my kid out of one high school and put them into another for a few weeks. I can't run to Quebec or Michigan to get a license to operate a business. Sure, issue a work to rule mandate. However, since you don't have to be a teacher to coach high school sports, that should not be interfered with so long as classes are going on. Once you coach you are no different than the accountant or Postal Worker coaching. Coaching the football team is not associated with your job. Its something you choose to do.
artimus4378 9/13/2012 8:39:30 AM Report
first of all, We just paid that school board $300 for my son to play football...so now what? the teachers get enough time off( summer, christmas, march break, easter, etc,,) that it makes up for the time that their actually On!
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 9:14:21 AM Report
All you teachers make me laugh ... especially NewsJunkie here. I love how you talk about how you've earned your sick days and bla bla bla. Contrary to what you think, sick days are for when you are legitimately sick!! Just because some people get sick less than other doesn't mean that you should be able to bank that time and amass a year's worth of it. Then some people say well if I don't get to bank my sick time then i'm just gonna take every sick day I can. Really? This just goes to show how lazy, self-centered, and greedy SOME people are in society today. Go to work, do you job and quit complaining about how hard you have it. You are privileged to live in this country and have the opportunities you have.
pruden 9/13/2012 9:32:10 AM Report
Bill 115 is the beginning of many changes in the labour laws and the working class should be behind the teachers. I agree teachers get good pay, pensions etc., but have you taken a good look at the kids going to school these days; rude, disrespectful, arrogant; I could go on and know for one I couldn't do that job because I'd probably end up in jail.
Seriously, the right to sick days, maternity time off, pay increases, employer abuse in fact everything the unions spent years fighting for will all be taken away not to mention pensions...the Federal Government have already started on that with their changes to OAS and if you read the news and listen to people's comments they begrudge seniors their rights such as good medical care, the pension they worked for and contributed to so folks, there is a lot more behind the Liberals Bill 115 and everyone who is able to should go to Oriazetti's office on Saturday.
Right Winger 9/13/2012 9:47:58 AM Report
Sick days are fine if they are used as sick days. I know plenty of teachers who use them for get stuff done around the house while the kids are at school days.
Slim Shady 9/13/2012 10:19:46 AM Report
To some of you who like to slam other workers like “Essar” employees who in your opinion earn too much:
Full time Union jobs start at approximately $23/hr, that’s about $49K for a 40 hour work week. The higher end jobs all require some sort of expertise and schooling.
The days for even getting a manual labour job with just grade 12 are long over. Most jobs require some post secondary education/trade schooling
We don’t get sick days. If you are sick you take a vacation day or take it on the bone.
Under current contracts Vacation time maxes out at 8 weeks after 25 years of continuous service.
Many of the jobs here involve working in the most dangerous and unhealthy environments you could think of, they aren’t cushy sit in a chair and push a button jobs.
Go to a car dealership and get your car fixed at $109/hr to have a skilled and trained LICENCED mechanic do the job. You don’t like that? Spend a week trying to fix it yourself in the rain! Why should a steelworker get paid $10/hr in your world? You don’t think its right? Go change your profession. You don’t have the education? Whose fault is that? Opportunity is everywhere – but it is not easy.
BTW I’m University educated from one of the top Universities in the world in one of the most difficult professions to get. My parents were working poor but they always were happy and worked hard for what they had. They instilled in me the lifelong work ethic that nothing; I MEAN NOTHING is beyond your reach. My parents came here as immigrants over 50 years ago and became hard working Canadian citizens. I paid for my own education ALL by myself spend quite awhile to get where I am. Even if I had sick days I would never use them for anything else but being sick! To cash them out for not using them is an oxy-moron.
On the topic of the government you complainers need to get a grip! The Premier of Ontario gets paid too much at $200K a year? A VP of a large company makes $250 a year! It is in line with what a job like that entails! Do you even understand the life of a politician and what it takes to run a province? A city? Believe me, I don’t agree with a lot of government policies or decisions – however that’s a democracy. It doesn’t mean that everyone is corrupt. Everybody is a hypocrite! Nobody wants to pay higher taxes but they want more and more services and government programs. Everything comes a cost or sacrifice; what’s important to you may not be important to your fellow man (who will thing that his government is squandering his money). Why don’t some of you run for a spot on City Council? See what it is like and the challenges/frustrations you will face (I have). How many of you didn’t even exercise the PRIVALEDGE to vote?
On the topic of Teachers, I am quite aware of the issues. Both my Sister and my brother-in-law are teachers. They love teaching and their job. They coach hockey and are quite involved outside of regular hours. They do complain at times and we disagree. But nobody forces or expects them to do their extracurricular activities. They both earn over $80K each as high school teachers but that did not come easy for them either! After Teacher’s College there were no open fulltime positions in southern Ontario or for that matter here…. They got full time positions in the NWT where they spent 5 years to get experience under their belt. Nobody can tell me that a teacher doesn’t get paid well for what they do. They know the gig before they sign. When you look at the entire picture it is a well paying job with good vacation – you can’t disagree with that. Are they worth it? I think so – the future of our children depend on it. Should they be allowed to strike? Yes and No. Working in a Public sector union is different than Private sector unions. If Essar goes on strike, companies that need steel get it from elsewhere (employees suffer not you) – your cars, equipment, merchandise etc. still get built…. Life for you goes on. If Teachers, Police,., Firemen, etc. go on strike the government doesn’t have the option of getting competitive services. In the Teacher’s case, we don’t get refunded tax dollars and go hire private tutors! Should Teachers be able negotiate a contract through arbitrators? Yes. When it is settled, Teachers will get any back monies owned retroactive to the end of their last contract. Leave the kids and parents out of it! Keep in mind that the province and the rest of our country are in a financial squeeze… the government is not just picking on the teachers.
AndyCap 9/13/2012 10:25:33 AM Report
For everyone one freaking about the extra curricular activities being cancelled, the article says cancelled for today only so quit whining. To all those that say teachers are working much more than we think, try again. Most of us have been through the school system and we see that teachers are well paid for the work they actually put in. Sure they do work outside of school hours and I say good because they sure aren't doing a great deal of strenuous work inside the class room. Teachers are paid very well, end of story and I say good for them. Government wage increases are being frozen all over the place. What people fail to realize is that not all government jobs pay well and its these people that suffer. Teachers crying that its unfair are crying on deaf ears, Ontario is not sympathetic to these cries. The janitors and other low level government employees on the other end have a right to be upset. That being said, if Mcguinty wants to save some real cash maybe he could put a stop to the huge government executive bonus' being dished out but that aint ever gonna happen.
cooker_eh 9/13/2012 10:37:02 AM Report
DannyC nailed it. If you think it's so lucrative to be a teacher then go put in your 5 years of University and become one. Everyone has the same opportunity. The grass is always greener and anyone that whines is obviously not happy with their own situation.
@PlasmaX - you must be a child if you resort to name calling. If you hate your current teacher then change schools.
mvnnth 9/13/2012 10:56:26 AM Report
"so if you were going to lose a sick day in all honesty what would you do?? you would take that sick day"
I wouldn't want a teacher, with a work ethic such as this comment would suggest, anywhere near my children.
Right Winger 9/13/2012 11:00:26 AM Report
Good luck with that. There is also pressure from the union to use your sick days. If management sees they aren't being used to the full extent they will try to lower the number offered.
speed7 9/13/2012 11:17:43 AM Report
mvnnth then why are you sending your kids to school then? Teach them yourself at home?
speed7 9/13/2012 11:19:53 AM Report
andy cap stick to ready your comic book you dont know a single thing about how hard teachers work in a day, in a month, in a year. Nada.
debbiedoo 9/13/2012 11:21:56 AM Report
What everyone seems to be missing around here are the rights of the children to have access to education uninterrupted as outlined in the school schedule. Just because they're not able to vote, they still count; and should be respected as individuals. Koodos to the Canadian government for interrupting the threat of strike until something can be reached between the parties involved.
clane 9/13/2012 11:23:40 AM Report
I hear the mayor of Toronto likes to take time off work to volunteer as a football coach, maybe he can pick up the slack
speed7 9/13/2012 11:25:56 AM Report
Slim Shady a relative of mine started at Essar as a labourer at 30 dollars an hour plus benefits and Paid dissability leave. What are you talking about. Thats way more than any teacher gets?
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 11:26:51 AM Report
Cooker_Eh: Do you even read the posts? No one was called any names - i simply responded to DannyC's insult towards me.
In addition - people aren't upset that teachers make a good living, have good benefits, etc - they deserve it! What people are upset about is when teachers become greedy and want more more more and when they don't get it they threaten to strike and now, more recently cancel activities which only hurt the students.
Don't forget that everyone that lives in Ontario and pays taxes is in essence paying for teacher's salaries. When the taxpayers realize that teachers are able to bank their sick time and have that paid out when they retire they have every right to be angry. That means that every teacher basically takes every single sick day that they are allotted over the course of their ENTIRE career. Now see if you can keep up with me @Cooker_Eh: If the teachers only got paid for the time that they were actually sick that cost would probably amount to 1/3 of the cost of paying them out at retirement. Do you really think that it is fair to the taxpayers that they pay the price to have every single teacher use every single sick day that they have? I challenge you to answer my question with an argument that actually makes sense.
speed7 9/13/2012 11:26:59 AM Report
Sorry meant to say on previous post
stick to reading your comic books
my bad typos.
speed7 9/13/2012 11:35:15 AM Report
Plasma, do you realize how much taxes come off of teachers salaries in the frist place? This all is used to support the free government services that you currently enjoy! You probably dont pay those higher tax rates so techinically you dont pay or contribute that much when it comes to our economy. Give your head a shake, how can you be so demanding and say things like we pay for teachers? Therefore you have a right to dictate? Your government is the problem , not teachers.
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 11:46:22 AM Report
Speed7: Do you live in a different world than the rest of us? How would you know what I pay for taxes? I pay just as much in taxes as any teacher - my salary is comparable to what most teachers make. Everyone pays taxes according to their income. This has nothing to do with what people are debating on this article. You are telling me to give my head a shake? You try and tell that I don't contribute to the economy - do you know me personally? You must be a teacher or are married to one for you to be defending them so vehemently. The trouble is all the teachers that are defending their positions are clearly biased. Teacher's only make up a small percentage of the population - If Sootoday put the question about banked sick time in one of their polls I can GUARANTEE that most would be all for taking that away.
sinikka 9/13/2012 12:00:48 PM Report
This is not a knock against all teachers but the only thing that gets me peeved is how many teachers out there should not be teaching. Students get tested in all subjects, how about the teachers. Unions protect lousy teachers. The joke when we were growing up was if you couldn't do anything else become a teacher. How many of your friends who had highschool averages in the 60-75% range became teachers. After they get hired there is basically no testing to ensure that they know what they are doing. Why again ,the unions protect them. You got to hand it to the teacher's union , they do a darn good job for their union members.
cooker_eh 9/13/2012 12:02:34 PM Report
Plas- Ok he called you dumb and you called him gay, u two can scratch each others eyes out for all I care.
Fact - the payout of sick days, which I never agreed with either, is no longer available. It's a done deal.
Fact- there are a few teachers that abuse the system in whatever way they can but the overwhelming majority of them are passionate, hard working, professional and dedicated to teaching kids. You would have to be to do that job everyday.
Now that their right to strike is gone we can cut their pay in half and make them work all summer. I'm pretty sure all of the good ones will take up new careers and we'd be left with the few bad apples to teach our kids. I guess the govt can just make it illegal for them to quit too.
KFM 9/13/2012 12:58:47 PM Report
One thing the government neglects to say is that since 1989 teachers hired DO NOT get a sick day buy out. Only people hired before that time do. That population of teachers is number one small now and number two still getting it because it was negociated. So who is the government saving money from then?
This miss guided mess, thank you Dalton, will cost more at the end of this year, just add up the major increase in supply costs in June. If you want to attack the people who created this mess contact your mpps!
PlasmaX 9/13/2012 3:54:26 PM Report
Cooker_Eh: Agreed that a lot are passionate and hardworking - no argument from me there. Also they are taking about a wage increase freeze for a couple years - not cutting their pay or making them work all summer. I think the point must of us are trying to get across here is that teachers have it pretty good and that there is no need to threaten to strike every time they don't get what they want. Maybe they don't see it but from the public's viewpoint it smacks of greed.
GotRotties 9/13/2012 5:50:44 PM Report
So teachers have it pretty good? so do lawyers, doctors, accountants, firemen, nurses..pretty well all the professions..they dont deserve to be well paid?? I guess not..all the people that have less than steller jobs on here seem to resent the fact that teachers are paid and have 3 weeks more off then you do in the summer. The majority of people leaving teachers college today will not be hired in a full time postition for some time if ever,they will continue to languish on the supply lists for years...hard to pay off a huge student loan that way and then when they finally get a position it is met with critics saying they dont deserve it? So who does deserve it...lets use firefighters for example...they are in a dangerous situation sure...but do they actually "work" hard 5 days a week? no they dont...I dont know what their schedule here is but in Sudbury they are going to work 24 hours a day for seven days and get the rest of the month off, are you going to call them undeserving as well?? I mean if youre counting actual hours of work..they cant possibly work for 24 hours a day can they, so there must be a lot of down time..but no one finds fault in this because they are an essential service...well if you dont think that a teacher is essential peshaps we should all homeschool our children..as far as them whining about not getting "more" they are not whining about that at all...they are worried about what is being taken away..in 2 years when their new contract comes around the government will be attacking their pay scale and their retirement..I dont think ANY of you would be willing to put your lives on hold year after year waiting to see what youre going to lose next and if you dont have a problem with the government taking back from you then I am certainly surprised...because think about this...there are very little jobs today that have retirement packages and you better HOPE that you have had enough foresight to put money away yourself because there will NOT be any Canada pension plan left when all the people that have lost everything over the years begin to retire...better think about that..because you could be next...you might be counting on your pension now, figuring out whether you will have enough money to pay your bills and remain in your house..what if suddenly your pension was gone?..this isnt just about teachers..its about ALL of us!
thinker 9/13/2012 7:30:33 PM Report
Hya, Just for the record, if your sister teaches summer school, she does get paid for this.
thinker 9/13/2012 7:41:19 PM Report
The correct spelling of 'grammer' is grammar'.
AndyCap 9/13/2012 9:41:19 PM Report
@speed7 My mother was and now my sister and 2 friends of mine are teachers. If teaching is what you call hard work than my friend you have had it easy in life.
@KFM ha set president did they? I like that
cam1 9/13/2012 10:22:10 PM Report
The point of this whole message is the government can legislate your rights away. Be aware, Mr. McGinty and his band of cronies spent like drunken sailors to buy the last the last election. This money they handed out all over the province was borrowed money. Now the time has come to pay the banker. Ontario programs and services are being cut or sold off to private companies. The MPP has been keeping a very low profile since the last election. His previous occupation was teacher and he has turned on his own people. How many good paying jobs has been lost in Sault Ste Marie and will continue to be lost? WAKE UP and smell the coffee folks. Soon we will be a third world country thanks to the provincial & federal government attack on our resources.
speed7 9/13/2012 11:02:46 PM Report
this is what you said earlier:
How many teachers are sitting in class right now telling their students to read on their own because they don't want to teach because their feelings were hurt?
What class? You mean in your neck of the woods?
You serious? If a teacher even tried to do that ... you know how far in deep S&@*T they would be for it? They cant do that ... there are rules to follow and and there is a proffesional etiquette to be followed, as well. I have never actually seen a teacher take anything out on their kids at all! They dont feel that is appropriate in the first place. The classroom is never an arena for what is going on in the media. What school did you go to? And in what century. Its not like the old days anymore. Teachers do not punish kids and stop lessons for spite. Boy you are a real piece Yote. I suggest you put a lid on it and your hidden identity before it gets ugly with you.
speed7 9/13/2012 11:06:40 PM Report
Andy Capp in what century were they teachers? Probably when they didnt have any collective bargaining? No ministry guidelines probably to follow too? Education has changed alot lately its not the easy peasy days like you think it is.
speed7 9/14/2012 8:12:08 AM Report
Plasma so you make the same wages' as a teacher? I would like to know when you come home from work every day? What do do? Because for a teacher it means coming home to a pile of work! And you probably come home relax with your family? Enjoy rest of your day. You are probably paid overtime as well. . Oh and you must get bonuses vacation time any time you please too! So, If teachers make for a small percentage then why are you acting like a teacher racist towards the progression? You have it pretty good yourself. Why all this hatred for teachers then?
I am Not a teacher.. I am not biased. I don't sit back and poop on them and feed into the public misconceptions like you seem to enjoy doing! And you earn a decent income too! that shows your true colors as a desctminatory. t
JayE 9/14/2012 12:42:56 PM Report
The government kicked off a 'putting the students first' campaign by removing various labour rights for teachers. This had nothing to do with student-teacher relations and everything to do with the gigantic financial hole this government has dug with it's mismanagement and costly scandals. The union responded by removing activities that teachers do on their own time which generally gets everybody riled up against teachers. The loss of labour rights is a serious slap in the face to all. Passing bills to force people to work under your own terms and conditions without negotiation is stuff from 100 years ago and not expected in a civilized democracy. The union having their members fulfill the governments campaign slogan is also troubling as it makes it appear that the teachers were the problem to begin with. Teachers have nothing to do with this shell game, they are pawns that the general public are quick to side against which distracts from the real issue.
thinker 9/15/2012 6:57:22 PM Report
The sad thing is that teachers who would choose on their own to continue with extra-curricular activities would be reprimanded by their union. (This happened in past strikes and to this day, many are blackballed.) This is the power of the teacher unions.