UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 10:31:51 AM ReportKilling people in other countries for profit = Defending democracy.
Sleeping with people to profit = A vile crime.
Oh the hypocrisy.
RonBes 8/19/2012 11:47:08 AM ReportI love the part about how a hooker with NO FIXED ADDRESS was released on the condition that she stay in a residence that she *does not have.*
Just leave them alone already.
Schmurb 8/19/2012 11:50:56 AM ReportUrsa,
You obviously don't see the other repercussions and ramifications involved with street walking.
It is a crime, it is a growing crime in the Soo and it is a sad and disgusting thing to see. Young women most who are drug riddled, selling their bodies for the measly amount of money they can get, just to support their drug habit. The family s who live in the area where this is happening, having prostitutes jump into their cars as they are stopped at a stop sign or parked in front of their own houses. Used needles being found in their gardens and front lawns. Hoping that they find them before their children do. The vile remarks being spoken between one prostitute to another, loud enough for everyone to hear, including their children. The thought that every time you step out of your house, as a woman, that you will be propositioned by a passing JOHN. The children's safety, who knows if the JOHNs are just looking for a streetwalker, or cruising to grab up a child, this kind of business draws perverted and strange characters to where they work. The neighborhood is probably very unsafe.
Everyone needs peace of mind, where they live, home should never be a place where you have to be nervous to be living.
Stop and think before you jump to conclusions. There is much more there than you know.
This is not a victimless crime!
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 12:01:29 PM ReportStop living in fear scmhurb, don't listen to fascists.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 12:02:53 PM ReportThey promise you security, at the cost of freedom. It's a false promise and you have been fooled with fear.
happychick 8/19/2012 12:13:01 PM ReportUrsamajor.....please put your tinfoil hat back on. Worrying about crime in your neighborhood and how it affects your family are valid concerns!
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 12:23:55 PM Report Tin foil hat? How original, I've never heard a fool use that phrase before. Makes sense that a person who can't think for themselves would parrot the remarks of other fools.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 12:25:22 PM ReportDoes polly want a cracker? Hahah!
Zap 8/19/2012 12:27:18 PM ReportIt is a fascists system.
polaris 8/19/2012 12:27:24 PM ReportMove away from that area if it's so bad? Problem solved.
geterdun 8/19/2012 2:05:25 PM Report These young girls are all addicted to drugs, what exactly did the courts or judge think they were going to do when they let them out on bail???? go work at sub way?????Please!!!!!!!
Society is to blame for this,the goverments,the courts,the judges, the cops,the dealers, the men who will continue to abuse them for their own pleasure.I dont blame these girls for their bad decision in life. I blame you the society who has told them and showed them that it is ok to live like this. All you ignorant pigs who think you have something constuctive to say about this, just remember that this is someones daughter that you are talking about someone actually loved and held these girls at some point....You are all no better than the king of syria who is killing his people for GREED and POWER!!!!!!!!You turn your backs on the ones who need help in society and you allow those with money and power to continue to oppress the rest of the people who are only trying to survive in world full of uncaring, everyone for themselves mentality ???????????? Just Remember the Karma ball will swing back your way one day. Maybe then you will say to yourselves man I wish I had actually done something to help someone in life rather than contniue to have turned my back and walked away from those who perhabs I could have helped.....Canada home of ????????????
theprotector 8/19/2012 2:14:43 PM Reportyou have a product or service you should be allowed to sell it...
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 2:19:37 PM ReportBased on the reply from 'geterdun' one would surmise that he/she has done the righteous thing then and taken one or a number of these women in and provided them with much needed support and direction in order to redirect their current trajectory. This being a path devoid of anything more than despair and endless suffering, reprised only by their own end.
I would hope 'geterdun' is the example to which we should all aspire, otherwise the post merely reflects all those before and after and provides nothing but useless words.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 2:32:30 PM Report^ You're a fascist. If you don't believe you are or don't know what that is then please go look up the definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 3:09:36 PM ReportUrsa you pointing in the right direction?
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 3:36:50 PM Report "to which we should all aspire"
fascism (ˈfæʃɪzəm)
— n
1. any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
2.prejudice in relation to the subject specified
I love taking out the trash.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 3:41:19 PM ReportAdolf Hitler said: "The higher you aspire the more you grow."
You sound just like Hitler.
Checkmate.
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 3:49:38 PM ReportTake the crack pipe outta your azz pylon. Look up sarcasm. Nice posturing though.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 3:52:05 PM ReportDamage control.
You have no real argument so you're resorting to accusing me of using drugs.
Also, that's not sarcasm.
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 4:04:02 PM ReportThere was no intent on providing an argument. I was merely suggesting that perhaps rather than pointing the finger at society with all of its foils, the poster was one that has taken the less traveled route and given these women a construct of hope.
If you could possibly refrain from the one word you spew so frequently, you might try formulating a retort that does not come across as inept as I am sure you most likely are. Good luck with that though.
Yet you remain, looking for a way to provide a beacon to the miserable life you've been dealt, toiling in some trailer park, waiting for the 'BeerMan' and another hit, in order to continue this fest of words you hide behind.
Bring what you will, be my bitch.....;)
sumosah 8/19/2012 4:16:27 PM ReportThis problem has been here a long time but like most things in this city it has been ignored... now younger generations are following in the same path and he police are doing at least something about it.. mind you next month they will focus on something else and ignore this again ...Something should be done to help the young girls with addiction who are selling their bodies to support their habit.. unfortuneately there is no "real" system set in place in this city or province that "deals " with this thing especially in a small city....
JerryLundegard 8/19/2012 4:18:53 PM Report"Yet you remain, looking for a way to provide a beacon to the miserable life you've been dealt, toiling in some trailer park, waiting for the 'BeerMan' and another hit, in order to continue this fest of words you hide behind. "
Of course you have no proof for that statement.....do you?
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 4:19:27 PM Report There you go again, accusing me of living in a trailer park, drinking beer and doing drugs.
So you have no argument but you believe these women need hope? Why do you believe they need hope? Hope for what? To aspire to be like you? Fascists are hilarious.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 4:23:41 PM ReportMost prostitutes are not drug addled, some are but most are working moms, who already work two jobs and are trying to pay an insane rent and puc bill. If you believe otherwise you've been lied to.
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 4:27:36 PM ReportI guess for entertainment sake, you've decided to continue your pointless rant. You are not the 'Great Bear' in this arena, as I have proven, quite effectively I might add.
It is rather amusing how easily bated you are. I am enjoying this.
JerryLundegard 8/19/2012 4:29:52 PM Report@sumosah
The cops just wanna shut the neighborhood up..there tired of the same fat,jealous lady that calls them 12 times a day for the last year...I think you mis-understand the reality of "policing"...they will be calling again soon, and the cops will spend some unnecessary money to bring in some unidentifiable cops from sudbury or thunder bay, to drive by and negotiate with the girls....don't kid yourself,, they care nothing about prostitution..it's a waste of their money
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 4:33:03 PM Report@Jerry ".there tired of the same fat,jealous lady that calls them 12 times a day for the last year"
Probably as much proof as you. None.
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 4:33:15 PM ReportPompus and a fascist? Makes sense. I know you like to think yo shit don't stink but lean a little bit closer, see roses really smell like poo-oo-oo.
JerryLundegard 8/19/2012 4:34:40 PM Report@Intwydimayla
Actually all you've proven Is that you engage in ad hominem attack without any proof of a negative characteristic .....
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 4:38:00 PM Reporthttp://tinypic.com/r/1zdmav9/6
JerryLundegard 8/19/2012 4:38:21 PM Report@Intwydimayla
I've watched her have confrontations with the girls...I know her....Have you seen anyone in their trailer park, taking hits?
Intwydimayla69 8/19/2012 4:41:46 PM ReportAhh...I really thought I could conceal that. Touche. Well played, both of you.
I guess there is nothing left to say here then, have a nice day gents.
Adieu
chickydeeee 8/19/2012 4:50:57 PM ReportProstitution is the oldest profession...it will never be stopped. I say if we can't stop it, then let's control it. Legalize it! Have regular testing etc.
It seems like a waste of tax payers money, and time to arrest these people, knowing when they get out, that is all they have to go back to.
I'm not posting for an argument, this is just my opinion....last time I checked, that is still my right! :P
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 5:04:12 PM ReportChickydee has the right idea, too old to stop, might as well regulate it and tax it.
rockbottom 8/19/2012 6:00:24 PM ReportThis is the oldest profession around, because you never get laid off. I'm sure every city in Canada has this problem, so maybe we should start thinking outside the box and by that I mean, which country has controlled this profession in the most humane and civilized way. Unfortunately, I can't see this profession ever going away, so maybe controlling it better is the way to go, but I honestly don't have the answers.
Working Man 8/19/2012 6:04:56 PM ReportMost prostitutes do drugs for sure. I'm sure they don't pay 'insane' rent as they are on housing and welfare.
If they are still broke after working for 1 or 2 hours per day, then they have a problem. If they make $100 per hour, pay $100/month for rent, plus welfare then they are doing very well for themselves!
UrsaMajor 8/19/2012 6:25:31 PM Report@ working man - sweet lies bro
lavendalilly 8/19/2012 6:32:12 PM ReportProstitution will never end. It is a very unfortunate means of living, but really, with a city that it turning to shit, no jobs, Pakistan is taking over, what else is one to really do?
Canada will become a minority soon.
chrystal 8/19/2012 8:39:09 PM ReportI agree this is not going to stop!!! legalize it already and put our tax dollars to better use...they let them go with no fixed address, SAD, whether or not they are drug users or not they are HUMAN and deserve better from society and themselve, if only THEY KNEW THAT!!
debbiedoo 8/19/2012 10:11:37 PM ReportSuch negativity. The only positive thing that I've heard is to "legalize it and tax it". However, has anyone ever heard of taxing a CASH business - if you know then please share. The only way that this would be possible is by issuing business licenses; and if you're caught without it consider it "evasion" and be punishable by jail for a heck of lot longer period than just a couple of days. Secondly, "of no fixed address" - what the heck is that all about? In a country with welfare and housing (let's not even go there) this phrase shouldn't even be in existence. The whole system failed in this - ie. no address no release until one is found; if drugs/alcohol addiction no rehab no release; no legal form work no release and the list goes on. It's simple - it's illegal and shouldn't be treated with just a "slap on the hand". What's next - you're going to tell me that it's ok for a drunk driver to go home on the "condition that you don't drive". If it's that much of an issue for the city of SSM then tell your city council to put it on the ballet for the next municipal election.
debbiedoo 8/19/2012 10:11:37 PM ReportSuch negativity. The only positive thing that I've heard is to "legalize it and tax it". However, has anyone ever heard of taxing a CASH business - if you know then please share. The only way that this would be possible is by issuing business licenses; and if you're caught without it consider it "evasion" and be punishable by jail for a heck of lot longer period than just a couple of days. Secondly, "of no fixed address" - what the heck is that all about? In a country with welfare and housing (let's not even go there) this phrase shouldn't even be in existence. The whole system failed in this - ie. no address no release until one is found; if drugs/alcohol addiction no rehab no release; no legal form work no release and the list goes on. It's simple - it's illegal and shouldn't be treated with just a "slap on the hand". What's next - you're going to tell me that it's ok for a drunk driver to go home on the "condition that you don't drive". If it's that much of an issue for the city of SSM then tell your city council to put it on the ballet for the next municipal election.
JustMe1234567 8/19/2012 10:57:43 PM ReportI'm wondering if any of the posters here have actually seen these girls on Albert, Tancred, Blucher area? I have.
This is not some hollywood-izes high class hookers on the corner in mini skirts and platform heels as romanticized in movie myths.
They are desperate street walking, strung out, shabbily dressed, in some cases with visible injuries (near various injection areas that have gotten infection no doubt). They are selling their bodies for money for drugs. They are sad, sad cases.
I question what guy would go with one of these girls, like c'mon guys put out some more money for something more organized and safe like an escort service.
I don't know what the answer is for these sad cases but it has to stop, I will never be comfortable with it in my my city core going on so blatantly from early morning to late at night.
I never saw something like that growing up in the Soo as a kid, ever. And I'm glad for that. Sadly many kids especially in that direct neighbourhood, are all to familiar with it. That's not fair to them.
I guess we've all failed, as a society, law enforcement, no laws to hold them in jail.
Best first step for the street walkers is detox.
My opinion only
Ms. Mc 8/20/2012 8:16:02 AM ReportSilly girls!lol.
speed7 8/20/2012 9:38:40 AM Report"you have a product or service you should be allowed to sell it?"
Are you real? What kind of product is that? Blue light special... , buy one and get some HIV free?? and half price on crack too.
Our government is the problem. The only reason why its still legal is because our governemnt has'nt gotten its pretty paws into the tax profits Just like marajuana. The courts, attourney's and the justice system have to make their fair share of money off it first then, when it is legal the goverment will take there share too! And that leaves us out in the cold. Put on your warm socks and sweaters people. Its a reality.
speed7 8/20/2012 9:56:22 AM ReportI can see it now ... a sign on queen street " Tina's pleasure house ",all Taxes applicable with service.
At least the government will give her some small buisness tax write offs on her newly fixed address?
Stevie-E 8/20/2012 10:03:26 AM ReportUrsa,
Not sure what planet you live on but I have a feeling you graduated in philosophy and work at a Starbucks because you can't find stable work.
Get a life, hippie.
Your comments make my head hurt and your "lax" attitude towards issues do not make any sense.
Legalize the prostitution and ensure they are shacked up in a brothel and lock them up if they are walking the streets.
The city should be buying up the seedy downtown area and LEVELING these derelict properties where drug dealers and prostitution thrive like cockroaches. Wasn't there a couple of murders in the past 2 years there? No wonder businesses are moving to Great Northern Road!
Get rid of these scumbags from the downtown area (Gore, Albert Street and make the downtown nice again by eliminating the flophouses and bringing in development opportunities from outside interests for new condos, shops, arts and entertainment.
$20 million would probably buy out 500 houses and another $25 million would level all the property in that triangle of s**t
(Bruce Street to West Street up to Wellington West/Carmen's Way)
I would rather have empty land than than some meth-head approach me for money on the way to my dentist appointment.
sparoma 8/20/2012 10:09:14 AM ReportI think it is highly unlikely that these girls are prostituting themselves to pay their puc bills when we live in a society that has many social programs to help you. We don't live high on the hog and things are tough but not that tough! There is a real problem here more complex than just cleaning up the streets and locking them up.
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 10:10:13 AM Report"Get rid of these scumbags from the downtown area (Gore, Albert Street and make the downtown nice again by eliminating the flophouses and bringing in development opportunities from outside interests for new condos, shops, arts and entertainment. "
Translation : "F*ck other human beings! I'm more important!"
Guess what? You're the real scumbag.
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 10:16:53 AM ReportSparoma, you're missing my point entirely. The point is it's none of yours or anyone elses buisiness what these women are using their money for.
If you believe otherwise you're a fascist or have too much time on your hands and should get a different hobby than staring out into the streets in fear.
sparoma 8/20/2012 10:22:51 AM ReportSteve E I agree with some of your suggestions unfortunately, it all comes down to money which as you know, is never handed out easily. Besides, all the lowlifes will move to another area of town , so you would have to level that area too in the future. It isn't that simple. These people need some education and training and mentoring, not to mention rehab in a lot of cases, to get some marketable skills and employment that can provide a clean and stable environment. Boredom and ignorance breed crime and violence. And the use of drugs and the riffraff that comes with it won't go away if you herd everyone into brothels. Just because it is hidden, doesn't mean it goes away.
sparoma 8/20/2012 10:26:53 AM ReportUrsaMajor...you are right.It is none of my business what people do with their money but you can't tell me that they are walking the streets cause they are hungry since there are food banks and soup kichens. There is welfare if they need a "paycheck" and housing if they need affordable housing. There are so many options available before street walking becomes a viable option. They could easily work at Tim Hortons if they needed to work to make ends meet like the rest of us. I don't have a drug problem, so I live just fine. These girls have issues and your b.s. talk isn't helping
Stevie-E 8/20/2012 11:36:04 AM Report@Ursa,
I may be an @sshole, but definitely not a scumbag. I have morals, I hug my parents, I contribute to society through volunteering and I agree that boredom and ignorance breed crime; and agree with sparoma's sentiments. I do believe there is abuse of these programs and the law is way too lenient for repeat offenders.
In my honest opinion, it's not necessarily always the people who live there that make the area seedy, but it very well be the landlords who are making money off peoples misery. These people don't deserve to be landlords. There should be standards and higher rent prices will ensure that people remain accountable. There are a lot of really nice areas right beside run down areas.
Yes, I it is a large financial outlay but money makes money and people in local government need to realize this. It's time for fresh thinking...you know...outside the box?
Hey David O...I see your ad to my right! How about some money?
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 11:37:13 AM ReportThey don't want to work at tim hortons. Hahaha. You don't understand how it's none of your buisiness.
speed7 8/20/2012 12:12:27 PM ReportI dont think though that working at tim hortons is a sustainable job for anyone. This is simply unacceptable . Families cannnot live on minimum wage. Look back about 20 years ago, and can anyone honestly say how much our city has economically improved? Not much. Our city is not developing further why? We have people running it who do not care. If there is no tax grab involved, the government wont care either. The courts, lawyers, our justice system are feeding at the trough through this and they dont want the problem to go away.
I dont know why people choose to rent apartments. There is no savings in that. Money down the drain. One can easily buy a small bungalow and your mortgage plus untilites would be less than rent, I believe? I havent checked mortage rates recently but with this economy they probably arent too bad right now. I do realize not everyone prefers to purchase a home however.
Stevie-E 8/20/2012 1:02:31 PM Report@speed7
I agree with owning something rather than renting it. If someone owns something, I hope they are more bound to take care of their own property, but this does not seem to be the case in the downtown area.
However, it's so difficult to even secure any type of mortgage now. I have a full-time job and my own business making a very good living and even I had to go through a very intensive process.
The city should redevelop the "cruddy" areas and provide shelter for these people, providing they work in return. (i.e, shoveling sidewalks, cutting lawns, etc. around town.). I see a lot of landscaping that need some work.
Why should we be paying for these repeaters to be on welfare/unemployment when they drink, shoot or snort it away and then work in a cash business like hookin'?? They are not giving back to the tax pool so put them to work or educate them! Time to pay back.
Hire a very good parole officer/military type...pay them very well to watch over them and we'll see a better city.
Jchevs 8/20/2012 1:27:47 PM ReportWorking in one of the downtown business`s myself, we get a lot of street walkers coming in constantly who are obviously under the influence of something. That`s not to say that they all are drug abusers either, so don`t take that the wrong way. It just backs the point that there is more than just prostitution problems on our hands. Some have shared their personal views with myself and I can tell you that I know it`s not the life they wish to live. It seems almost like an addiction. Call it their comfort zone if you will.
There is no need, for people like me, who have to drive through the downtown area at night and are made to be uncomfortable when your stopped at a red light and they approach your car. Even with the problems they face, with determination and hard work, they can overcome the obstacles. Excuses are a load of BS. The way I was raised, we call that being lazy! This is a serious problem and there is no easy way to fix it.
I for one definitely do not have the answers, but reading stories like this make me feel like at least our city is trying to do something to fix the problem. And trying is better than sitting back and doing nothing at all.
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 8:49:05 PM ReportIt is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/adolf_hitler_2.html#mVRjsRsPbz4sIeO3.99
Sieg Assholes!
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 10:26:17 PM Report"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know it doesn't make people close to their government to be
told that this is a people's government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing to do with knowing one is governing.
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the universe was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was "expected to" participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one's energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."
"Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. "One had no time to think. There was so much going on." "Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your "little men", your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about - we were decent people - and kept us so busy with continuous changes and "crises" and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the "national enemies", without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice - "Resist the beginnings" and "consider the end." But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have changed here before they went as far as they did; they didn't, but they might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"Your "little men," your Nazi friends, were not against National Socialism in principle. Men like me, who were, are the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemoller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing: and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something - but then it was too late."
"Yes," I said.
"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 10:26:58 PM Report"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist."
"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to ö to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and the smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked ö if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in "43" had come immediately after the "German Firm" stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in "33". But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying "Jew swine," collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in ö your nation, your people ö is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 10:27:27 PM Report"You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined.
"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done ( for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
"What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or "adjust" your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Germans became this poor kind of hero, many more, I think, than the world knows or cares to know."
I said nothing. I thought of nothing to say.
"I can tell you," my colleague went on, "of a man in Leipzig, a judge. He was not a Nazi, except nominally, but he certainly wasn't an anti Nazi. He was just ö a judge. In "42" or "43", early "43", I think it was, a Jew was tried before him in a case involving, but only incidentally, relations with an "Aryan" woman. This was "race injury", something the Party was especially anxious to punish. In the case a bar, however, the judge had the power to convict the man of a "nonracial" offense and send him to an ordinary prison for a very long term, thus saving him from Party "processing" which would have meant concentration camp or, more probably, deportation and death. But the man was innocent of the "nonracial" charge, in the judge's opinion, and so, as an honorable judge, he acquitted him. Of course, the Party seized the Jew as soon as he left the courtroom.
"
"And the judge?"
"Yes, the judge. He could not get the case off his conscience ö a case, mind you, in which he had acquitted an innocent man. He thought that he should have convicted him and saved him from the Party, but how could he have convicted an innocent man? The thing preyed on him more and more, and he had to talk about it, first to his family, then to his friends, and then to acquaintances. (That's how I heard about it.) After the "44" Putsch they arrested him. After that, I don't know."
I said nothing.
UrsaMajor 8/20/2012 10:27:45 PM Report"Once the war began," my colleague continued, "resistance, protest, criticism, complaint, all carried with them a multiplied likelihood of the greatest punishment. Mere lack of enthusiasm, or failure to show it in public, was "defeatism." You assumed that there were lists of those who would be "dealt with" later, after the victory. Goebbels was very clever here, too. He continually promised a "victory orgy" to "take care of" those who thought that their "treasonable attitude" had escaped notice. And he meant it; that was not just propaganda. And that was enough to put an end to all uncertainty.
"Once the war began, the government could do anything "necessary" to win it; so it was with the "final solution" of the Jewish problem, which the Nazis always talked about but never dared undertake, not even the Nazis, until war and its "necessities" gave them the knowledge that they could get away with it. The people abroad who thought that war against Hitler would help the Jews were wrong. And the people in Germany who, once the war had begun, still thought of complaining, protesting, resisting, were betting on Germany's losing the war. It was a long bet. Not many made it."
superstar75 8/23/2012 12:47:46 PM ReportIt is easier for us to believe that "most" of these girls are working moms trying to pay high rents and skyrocketing PUC bills... if YOU believe this YOU have been lied to!! you have it backwards... perhaps some are...but MOST are drug addicted... and valid points are made when discussing the concerns of the neighborhood children and our elderly citizens trying to walk to or from their homes....i wont get into the reason i know... but i do KNOW that these girls are working for their drugs....PERIOD!!
if you believe otherwise your head is in the sand as mine was not too many years ago... the worst is that for at least SOME but not ALL of these girls, especially the youngest of them, they carry no shame, no remorse, and no desire to heal themselves... they brag about it on their FB pages, all the while they have their parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and children on the friends list... this for all to see!!
i feel for the souls and pray they survive and are able to come through this and make a better life for themselves and their kids... i also understand how most got there... child abuse, neglect, just to name a couple... and yes many just based on some bad decisions alone...
i also know for a FACT, that there is zero consequence for our youth... the justice system is a joke... very good point made above that stated... no fixed address yet released on conditions to not leave residence... the kids today know how this system works (doesnt work)
Us parents are for the most part on our own... we have to make sure our kids are safe, and sometimes no matter how hard we try we just cant... because, and did you know? that once a child reaches the age of 12 they can basically make their decisions on their own? there is no help out there for us parents, no recourse, no supports, no nothing... if the child doesnt want it, then they dont have to get it... so i say to all the parents out there with troubled kids.... go out there and get them!! drag them home by the hair, ear, ankle whatever, CAS and Police be damned!!.... hold them tight so they dont leave...follow them always, and never stop giving them S*#T... remind them always of what they can be.... and demand respect!! respect of themselves, their family, and society... teach them all that you can teach them and hope for the best.. but always chase them and try not to fall too far behind that you cant catch up to them...
if my daughter were on that street, id quit my job and be right there... kicking her ass to detox and then treatment... over and over and over again until i died!!! cuz i WILL die before my children... I refuse to bury any of them over anything like this!!!
CITY POLICE
