E-bikes. Bicycles or motorcycles?
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 by: Jordan Allard
Local motorists may have noticed a new method of transportation scooting alongside their vehicles this summer.
Electric bicycles or e-bikes, as they're more commonly known, were officially included in Ontario's Highway Traffic Act in October 2009.
While at this point they may not be out of the ordinary elsewhere in the province, electric bicycles are still a recent development in our community thanks to the opening of dealerships in the past year.
Not surprisingly the influx of e-bikes on roads throughout the city has resulted in some issues and drawn varying complaints from a surprised public.
"I'm not going to say there is a problem in our city with e-bikes," said Sgt. Ray Magnan, head of traffic operations with the Sault Police Service. "More accurately they are something new and I think there's a lot of misinformation spreading around."
Magnan has noticed more e-bikes on Sault Ste. Marie roads than ever this summer and city police have received several inquisitions about the legality of their use.
He reminds motorists e-bikes are permitted on local roads and warns users to remember they are subject to the same rules as those driving vehicles.
"The rules of the road apply to all vehicles, including bicycles and e-bikes," he said.
Key for e-bike operators avoiding incidents is making sure they are in the right lane at all times to avoid traffic being slowed to a snail's pace.
"E-bike users cannot ride side-by-side," said Magnan. "The only time they would be allowed in the left lane would be when making a left-hand turn."
The Sault Police Service has been working towards educating the community about this new issue and Magnan has appeared on local cable discussing e-bike safety at various points this summer.
Users not being able to differentiate the difference between an e-bike and motorcycle has been the top issue for local law enforcement officials.
Magnan has seen numerous individuals driving what they think are e-bikes with small motors on them.
"Those are not e-bikes," said Magnan. "They are motorcycles requiring the appropriate licenses and permits to operate."
E-bikes have an electric motor and do not require a license, registration or insurance to operate.
While the regulations for driving an e-bike may only include being over 16-years-of-age and wearing a helmet, the rules for what qualifies as an electric bicycle are far more stringent.
For example, the Ministry of Transportation says in order for bicycle to be considered an e-bike it must have a maximum weight of 120 kilograms and wheels with a diameter of at least 350 milometers.
It also needs to meet the federal definition of a power assisted vehicle; meaning it requires steering handlebars, pedals and reaches a maximum speed of 32 KM/hour.
All this can be certified by a label stating the compliance with government regulations that should be located on any electric bicycle available in stores.
Joey Giordano (shown above), owner of Hollywood Electric Avenue, said the loosened regulations for e-bikes has been driving sales at his store - along with the energy savings that result from an electric means of transportation.
"You can travel around 60 kilometers for the price of less than one kilowatt of a charge, which is around five cents, and that's very attractive to people," he said.
Giordano opened Hollywood Electric Avenue next to Scoops on Queen Street just under a year ago and has sold over 400 e-bikes/scooters in that time.
"They're very fun to drive and are absolutely addictive," said Giordano. "One ride and you can't wait to get back on again."
More details about the rules and regulations for e-bikes is available online
here
The Freq 8/8/2012 8:46:21 AM ReportWalmart has been selling electric scooters (Echopeds) for 5 years with great success and anything that doesn't pollute is a good thing. :-) I have a few friends who bought them there and love them. As much as I think E-bikes are a great thing, I don't think they should be allowed on the Hub Trail. Parts of the hub trail have tricky corners and hills for one thing, but also blind spots and being that these electric scooters don't handle like bicycles, I'm sure there will accidents on the trail. Some people I've seen can barely ride in a straight line on the city streets. ;-) The big picture however is that the trail was designed for "people power" not motor power. ;-) Let's keep the Hub Trail motor free.
JediMindTrick 8/8/2012 8:52:12 AM ReportThese little things are fantastic for in town local driving (especially in Europe with the smaller streets)... I will admit that, though I don't own one. However, the insurance issue gets me. Why should they not be subject to similar insurance regulations if they are to be on the main roads of town?
Also, these DO NOT belong on the Hub Trail. Take your bike, walk, roller blade, wheelchair, etc.. Introducing these to the Hub Trail would contradict the principle of healthy activity and healthy living.
MR40 8/8/2012 8:53:08 AM Reportwhat ever they maybe called, they are still a bike with two wheels and power operated, they need to have insurance and plates and a lisense to use them. as for the chain saw bikes, that should be banded!! they are not road worth, as for one thing, the brakes and steering were never desighed to go as fast as they do.there not anyway inspected by dot to be road worthy! they are also running up and down the board walk all times of the day and night with all the noise and stink from the exhaust while people are trying to enjoy a walk with there kids.not to mention get hit by one.
D_Laity 8/8/2012 9:03:47 AM ReportI find them dangerous to be on the road. They travel at a significantly lesser speed then regular traffic and are difficult to see. It's only a matter of time before someone is killed on one.
cityhallguy 8/8/2012 9:12:57 AM ReportI have a feeling that this article is going to be full of responses!
I am not opposed to the e-bikes. If you can go 60kms for 5cents...go for it! I, for one, would look like a bear on a unicycle! LOL
BUT...from what I've seen, there's a lot of education required for the drivers.
First...STAY OFF THE SIDEWALK!
Second...DRIVE WITH AND NOT AGAINST TRAFFIC!
Third...DON'T SQUEEZE BETWEEN CARS AND CURBS!
Like everything, there are people out there that just ruin it for everyone, and it only takes a few to make a bad name for the rest!!!
As for the hubtrail...they don't belong, but then, neither do dogs off their leash, garbage all over, and motorcycles!!! But hey...that's for another time!!!
bruno-b 8/8/2012 9:13:46 AM ReportNO INSURANCE!!! I would like to know who will be resposible and pay the costs when one of these E bikes causes an accident that they are at fault for causing!!! I see alot of people driving these bikes that dont know the rules of the road and some suspended drivers using these for transportation AHHH, they are a MOTORIZED VEHICLE there should be some requirements!!!!! There is a double standard here electric MOTOR or gas MOTOR , it is still MOTORIZED!!! There are no pedals!!and there is no accounability or responseability!!! rules are necessary!!
learningaswego 8/8/2012 9:17:21 AM ReportE-bikes are good.
E-bikes are MOTORIZED VEHICLES.
Therefore, E-bikes do NOT belong on the Hub Trail.
Stevie-E 8/8/2012 9:23:32 AM ReportWhat a JOKE!
If you're gonna be on the road with vehicles, 32km/h is not going to cut it with me. Get something that could keep up with traffic. Usain Bolt can run faster!
These are absolutely ridiculous and have nearly missed these slow moving creatures on a few occasions because the operators simply not adhere to the rules of the road.
Not a worthwhile purchase in my book..sorry.
cityhallguy 8/8/2012 9:30:06 AM Reportbruno-b...if you look at the picture, there are pedals. One of the stipulations for these bikes is that they have pedals. Just like the old mopeds, they need to have a way to get home should they lose their charge.
Number One Son 8/8/2012 9:55:09 AM ReportI own one of these bikes, so I will clear up a few things not in the article.
The peddles are required to be with the bike, but not necessarily attacked to the bike, .... they can be carried in the storage compartment, and still be legal.
Maximum distance is 60 km with optimum conditions. Maximum passenger weight to be effective is 250 pounds, anything more really reduces mileage, anything close also reduces mileage, maybe 60 km with a 175 pound driver. Also, hills play a big role. Uphill just kills the battery and if you have any you regularly travel will reduce your mileage.
They generally have dual speeds, the slower speed conserves the battery, while the higher speed is great on the flat areas. 32 km/hr is the max in ideal conditions again, but I have found it is generally fast enough to overtake most regular bicycles.
You can assist the bike going uphill by peddling, but it is awkward because the peddles have a shorter stoke.
Because they are quiet, you are constantly having to use the horn to alert people you are over-taking them. The horn also blares in the signal light process (for obvious reasons), so the rider always has to use the signal lights.
They are not meant to ride tandem, regardless of the presence of passenger posts for the passenger's feet to rest upon.
They only require a simple bicycle helmet, although most riders (including myself) wear a motorcycle helmet.
The braking system is very good and durable.
People are being ripped off by the local prices. I bought my bike through a continual online auction at www.geobikes.com for $545.00 which included shipping from Vancouver. The actual auction price I paid was only $265.00, the rest was shipping. All of the bikes in the auctions go for this price.
Lastly, there is a site you can google that will show you step by step how to alter the relay at the motor to allow your bike more power and more speed, FYI. I think they are a great item if driven with care and respect.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 9:56:15 AM ReportBruno b if you look at the picture above you will notice they have pedals on the bike if you take those off the bike then is considered as a motorized bike thats why you leave the pedals on so then it stays as an e-bike and if someone loses a charge or forgets to charge it then you can use the pedals as if it was a normal bicycle to get home to charge it.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 10:01:58 AM Report Am I allowed to carry passengers on my e-bike?
Under the Highway Traffic Act, section 178(2), passengers are not allowed on a bicycle designed for one person. You should refer to the manufacturer’s information to see if your e-bike was designed to carry passengers.
you can carry a passenger but you have to read the Manufacturer's information to see if your E-bike was designed to carry passengers.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 10:06:24 AM Reporthere is the information and rules of the E-bike and if you read question 20 you will see why you don't need a license.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml
A.E.D. 8/8/2012 10:17:56 AM Report"REVENUE" for the city the way i see it, as you must have a dog license to own a dog in this city,so why not get revenue off e-bikes with a city license.THE hub trail should also be collecting revenue in a pass like the snow machine trails must carry,this will pay for security and the upkeep of the hub trail,any other thoughts on this?
SandyB 8/8/2012 10:24:29 AM ReportStevie-E
LMAO I do love the frenic posturing of the young. One day even you will come to the realization that speed isn't the end all or be all.
Yes, they are new. Yes some are driven by old(er) people but they are like bikes, motorcycles, cars, trucks, vans and even zoom zoom Mustangs :) Some people drive well, some people couldn't drive to save their lives.. which is why we all need to be defensive drivers and help.
The Freq 8/8/2012 10:26:01 AM ReportThis is to "Number One Son". It is "not" legal to remove your pedals from your E-bike. ;-) A bike built with the pedals is meant to have the pedals attached. You can be stopped and ticketed if you ride without pedals, as it is no longer follows the bike rule. ;-) I have heard of 2 people being warned of this already.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 10:26:16 AM ReportAnd here is Information about the hub trail.
Magnan said a new by-law is currently being developed dealing with the use of e-bikes on the Hub Trail.
Currently they are not allowed in the Hub Trail and the draft by-law with potential changes to those rules will be presented to city council sometime this fall.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 10:30:33 AM ReportA.E.D
did you read question 20 it tells why the Ebike does not require A License take a look at this link and go to question 20.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml
Stevie-E 8/8/2012 10:38:21 AM Report@Sandy
How do you know I am young? If these e-bikes are driven by people thinking these are an automobile (like the one's I have encountered), they should at least keep up with them. I have had some arseholes hold up traffic on these things because they felt like they were on a motorcycle or something and take up a lane. If this is going to be the case, we need bike lanes in this city!
I am all for these things, but only if they are able to sustain speeds that mirror that of in-town driving (50-60km/h). In that case, license the damn things and let them pay insurance like the rest of us, not circumvent the laws by calling them a "bike"
A.E.D. 8/8/2012 10:40:56 AM ReportSault" Iam not talking about a prov. law or fed,iam saying a city by-law from the city of sault ste marie that can charge a fee like the dog license.but for these e-bikes,so theres your loop hole gone. lol
cueball 8/8/2012 10:45:37 AM ReportE-bikes are dangerous when driven by individuals who do not understand the rules of the road. I have witnessed various e-bikes driving the wrong way down the road, weaving in and out of traffic, crossing at a red light while driving, etc. If any mode is transportation is driven by other than muscular power on a roadway then it should require a driver's licene or a motorcycle licence at minimum, in my own opinion. I drive a 250cc motorcycle that I was required to take a written test, a road test and then another road test within five years. I also took a three-day course at a college to learn all of the rules of navigating the roadway on a two-wheeled vehicle. I also had to register and plate the vehicle and put hundreds of dollars of insurance on it. It will take a couple of people to lose their lives before the legislation catches up with the fact that any vehicle, driven by other than muscular power, must require a driver's licence, a minimum driving age of 16 years, insurance and registration. The municipality can also impose restrictions on these vehicles on their roadways and should seriously consider this option. Any vehicle at all should also never be allowed on the Hub Trails. This is a disaster waiting to happen and will only ruin the intention of the trails.
cueball 8/8/2012 10:52:28 AM ReportE-bikes are dangerous when driven by individuals who do not understand the rules of the road. I have witnessed various e-bikes driving the wrong way down the road, weaving in and out of traffic, crossing at a red light while driving, etc. If any mode is transportation is driven by other than muscular power on a roadway then it should require a driver's licence or a motorcycle licence at minimum, in my own opinion. I drive a 250cc motorcycle that I was required to take a written test, a road test and then another road test within five years. I also took a three-day course at a college to learn all of the rules of navigating the roadway on a two-wheeled vehicle. I also had to register and plate the vehicle and put hundreds of dollars of insurance on it. It will take a couple of people to lose their lives before the legislation catches up with the fact that any vehicle, driven by other than muscular power, must require a driver's licence, a minimum driving age of 16 years, insurance and registration. The municipality can also impose restrictions on these vehicles on their roadways and should seriously consider this option. Any vehicle at all should also never be allowed on the Hub Trails. This is a disaster waiting to happen and will only ruin the intention of the trails.
cueball 8/8/2012 10:53:47 AM ReportE-bikes are dangerous when driven by individuals who do not understand the rules of the road because a driver's licence is not required to drive them. I have witnessed various e-bikes driving the wrong way down the road, weaving in and out of traffic, crossing at a red light while driving, etc. If any mode is transportation is driven by other than muscular power on a roadway then it should require a driver's licence or a motorcycle licence at minimum, in my own opinion. I drive a 250cc motorcycle that I was required to take a written test, a road test and then another road test within five years. I also took a three-day course at a college to learn all of the rules of navigating the roadway on a two-wheeled vehicle. I also had to register and plate the vehicle and put hundreds of dollars of insurance on it. It will take a couple of people to lose their lives before the legislation catches up with the fact that any vehicle, driven by other than muscular power, must require a driver's licence, a minimum driving age of 16 years, insurance and registration. The municipality can also impose restrictions on these vehicles on their roadways and should seriously consider this option. Any vehicle at all should also never be allowed on the Hub Trails. This is a disaster waiting to happen and will only ruin the intention of the trails.
cueball 8/8/2012 10:54:47 AM Report.
Busty Brunette 8/8/2012 10:57:38 AM ReportSomething needs to be done.
I work at the hospital and it frustrates me everytime I drive there or back and see an E-bike in the area of town. The speed limit is 60km/hr. I understand that a bicycle can not go 60km/hr, but they do not take up a lane. I am all for different forms of transportation for people who can't afford a car, truck, ect. but anything with a motor NEEDS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF GOVERNMENT REQUIRED TEST. Charge $17 like the M1 licensing and get them to write a simple test regarding street signs and road regulations. that way no one can say 'they didn't know'.
I also find these E-bike drivers frustrating from a motorcyclist point of view. I am a new motorcycle rider this year and one thing I learned right away was to not 'ride side by side'. Among alot of what I learned, I see E-bike drivers doing wrong. Maybe because it is still fresh in my mind, but I see some of them as a hazard to other drivers, ESPECIALLY if they don't require insurance.
Busty Brunette 8/8/2012 10:59:54 AM ReportSomething needs to be done.
I work at the hospital and it frustrates me everytime I drive there or back and see an E-bike in the area of town. The speed limit is 60km/hr. I understand that a bicycle can not go 60km/hr, but they do not take up a lane. If any other motorized vehicle was driving almost half the speed limit, would that not make them a danger to other drivers.
I am all for different forms of transportation for people who can't afford a car, truck, ect. but anything with a motor NEEDS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF GOVERNMENT REQUIRED TEST. Charge $17 like the M1 licensing and get them to write a simple test regarding street signs and road regulations. that way no one can say 'they didn't know'.
I also find these E-bike drivers frustrating from a motorcyclist point of view. I am a new motorcycle rider this year and one thing I learned right away was to not 'ride side by side'. Among alot of what I learned, I see E-bike drivers doing wrong. Maybe because it is still fresh in my mind, but I see some of them as a hazard to other drivers, ESPECIALLY if they don't require insurance.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 11:03:01 AM ReportA.E.D.
I see now what you are talking about but see these E-bike have pedals on them so they are still considered as a bicycle and a bicycle you don't need a license for to ride around in the city thats why if you see someone riding a E-bike and if you see them pedaling that means they ran out of battery power so now they are riding it as a bicycle.
Shortz 8/8/2012 11:22:31 AM ReportOkay. Some information.
The Freq is correct in stating that the pedals MUST stay attached in order for these to remain classified as E-Bikes.
D_Laity: They are classes as a bicycle and therefore are allowed on any roadway on which bicycles are permitted.
bruno-b: There are pedals and they MUST remain attached for these to remain classified as E-Bikes. As long as it is covered under the definition of an E-Bike, it is governed under the same laws as any other bicycle.
Stevie-E: they are a bicycle, not a motorcycle or a scooter. If you need to go faster than 32 km/h (19.9 MPH), then but a motorcycle or Scooter and pay for the licensing and insurance to go with it.
A.E.D.: Sure. Let's put city licences on non-Ebicycles, trikes and tandem bikes (bicycle built for two) while we're at it. Maybe a fee to use sidewalks too, as there are more than enough pedestrians to give the city some fat $$ for the city coffers.
cueball: I think you made your opinion clear on the first post. The other two weren't necessary. I own a 650cc Yamaha motorcycle and have driven everything rom a 125cc Honda up to a modified 88 cu in HD Dynaglide Lowrider. The performance and power difference between an E-Bike and a motorcycle or scooter is like the difference between apples and oranges.
cueball 8/8/2012 11:27:54 AM ReportShortz: The duplicate posts happened when I hit the back button on the computer and attempted to edit a spelling error. I only noticed the duplicate posts when I refreshed the page. There is no ability to delete past posts I guess... It was only a mistake and not intentional.
learningaswego 8/8/2012 11:35:11 AM ReportSure they have pedals, but have you ever seen anyone peddling an e-bike?
Call me a cynic, but the pedals are probably there mainly for show, so that these motorized vehicles will be considered "bicycles" under the law, at least long enough so the manufacturers and sellers can make a killing.
A.E.D. 8/8/2012 11:36:08 AM ReportSault-ont:You answered your own question they are called E-BIKES,not bicycles and they have a MOTOR on them so they should be required a permit of sorts,as you said still considered a bicycle,but for how much longer will be the question and i can see a short future for these ELECTRIC MOTORIZED BIKES on our roads without a LICENSE.Example paddle boat runs on leg power, but put a motor on it and you need a boaters cert.
Point Blank 8/8/2012 11:37:48 AM ReportI also agree that any "motorized" vehicle should require a license, insurance, testing, etc.
However, I also feel that if we are going to have to deal with these vehicles on our roadways, then the local police should start enforcing the rules of the road...to ALL! That includes regular cyclists as well. Yesterday, one cyclist was riding beside the cars and curb, up onto the sidewalk, then rode through a red light!
So, whether it is pedal power, or motorized power, cyclists need to be penalized for not adhering to the rules of the road. And, that is the job of the local authorities. Maybe if the rules are enforced, these vehicles will be easier to accomodate.
As for the Hub trail, I think that any vehicle, motorized or not, should not be allowed on the same pathway as pedestrians. If cyclists are to be allowed...build them a separate path.
D_Laity 8/8/2012 11:39:25 AM ReportI understand they are allowed on the road ways, that is the problem and the reason we are having this discussion.
Anything that is powered and must ride on the roadways should have to meet specific requirements. I could care less about the insurance issues, my issue is safety.
When you are driving down the road, it is quite often the car going 30 under the speed limit that causes the accidents and not often the vehicle going 30 over.
No vehicle that is that slow should be allowed or forced onto the roads. Hence, the reason I find them dangerous.
Mark my words, someone will get killed on one, in this city.
D_Laity 8/8/2012 11:44:02 AM ReportAnd let's not kid ourselves, classify them how you want...
They are as much a vehicle on the road as a car, truck, motorcycle, scooter or moped... Anything with fenders and a body and a motor is a vehicle...
sumosah 8/8/2012 12:03:00 PM ReportAED re Paddle boats- you put an electric rs30 motor on it you do not need a boating license you are mistaken -
You must work for the city trying to inject the ideas of permits and fees for ebikes and hub trail usage-
hub trail - is designed for a nature trail for anyone and anything that can trvel "with their own motion" not an assisted ebike motion-
if you licence ebikes you need to license bicycles giving the government another cash grab-
ebikes that are modified passed the 32km/h should be subjected as the same regulations as scooters-
Alot of the people that have lost their licenses for dui are driving these ( I know of quite a few) as a means to get to work...increasing the speed of these things would defeat the purpose of the impended sentence of why they dont have a license
A.E.D. 8/8/2012 12:06:48 PM ReportSHORTY: Ive had a motorcycle for over 38 years and it not a mini-bike,with a top speed of over 160 MPH.Ive had one accident in all these years and it wasn"t my fault,i was cut off by a driver that didnt see me and changed lanes, but i seen him coming and was able to lie my bike down in a controlled slide.My point is, as a motorcycle driver u must drive defensive and offensive and constantly monitoring your surroundings at all times.This is why these E-BIKES need some sort of road training before one of them are killed,or seriously hurt at any speed.
A.E.D. 8/8/2012 12:25:33 PM ReportSUMO:I was referring to a gas powered motor on a paddle boat.
Stugatzu 8/8/2012 12:34:03 PM ReportNice article... Sgt. Magnan goes into detail explaining that E-Bikes are speed restricted by federal regulations and can only reach 32 km/h. The owner of that bike shop then idiotically makes boisterous claims that his e-bikes do 60 km/h.
I see a lot of uninformed chirping going on here about e-bikes and pedals. A lot of you are confusing e-bikes with mopeds. AN E-BIKE RUNS ON BATTERY POWER ONLY AND DOES NOT HAVE FUNCTIONAL PEDALS, THEY HAVE FOOT PEGS. MOPEDS HAVE FUNCTIONAL PEDALS, AND MUST BE INSURED AND LICENSED LIKE A MOTORCYCLE.
A very important point that a lot of e-bike riders fail to grasp and this wasn't even touched upon by the police: ABSOLUTELY NO PASSENGERS ON AN E-BIKE!
Stugatzu 8/8/2012 12:39:57 PM ReportJust to clarify the no-passenger thing:
Under the Highway Traffic Act, section 178(2), passengers are not allowed on a bicycle designed for one person. Refer to the manufacturer’s information to see if your e-bike was designed to carry passengers.
Most of the ones around are single passenger rated... and ride double.
MR40 8/8/2012 12:44:17 PM ReportOK, HERE IS A QUESTION. if your on suspention for drunk driving can a person drive an E bike or chainsaw bike???????? if not, WHY, ya dont need any paper work to drive one anyways!
cityhallguy 8/8/2012 1:05:51 PM ReportStugatzu
You're going to get a lot of chirping when you yourself didn't read the article!
They will go a DISTANCE of 60kms, but are restricted to 32km/h!!
And YES, they do have pedals!!! Stop by SCOOPS and check it out!!!
And after you drop by there, check out this website...
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml
...and learn a little before you start to chirp about everyone else!!!
bruno-b 8/8/2012 1:15:34 PM ReportNo INSURANCE required for E bike,Why do I need insurance for my Prius E vehicle!!! I guess I would have to attach pedals to fit the catagory, What a JOKE !! Get with it police and government people ,you know its not right??
cityhallguy 8/8/2012 1:17:05 PM Report...or you can check out this website...
http://www.emmokingston.ca/apps/faq/
cityhallguy 8/8/2012 1:22:56 PM Reportbruno-b
I do agree that insurance will need to be addressed. Unfortunately, we probably won't see that happen until after the first accident!
I don't agree that you drive a Prius! LOL
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 1:30:00 PM ReportA.E.D.
what does this say here below
For the purposes of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA), e-bikes are considered bicycles and therefore do not require operators to be licensed.
it means that The E-bike is Considered A Bicycle so it means you do not need a license to ride it in the city
this information is all right here this is the rules information for the E-Bike
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml#a20
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 1:56:17 PM ReportA.E.D.
if you go to this link this tells you all about the E-bike and and you read question number 20 it states that the E-bike is considered a bicycle here is the Link and here is Question 20 also below
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/e-bike-faq.shtml
For the purposes of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA), e-bikes are considered bicycles and therefore do not require operators to be licensed.
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 2:02:09 PM Reporthere is something else here too
If the pedals have been removed from an e-bike, it is no longer considered to be an e-bike. Removing the pedals makes it an illegal motor vehicle because it does not conform with the Highway Traffic Act
Sault_ont 8/8/2012 2:05:27 PM ReportA.E.D.
you tell me in this part where it says that the E-Bike is not considered a Bicycle where does it say that Below here.
For the purposes of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA), e-bikes are considered bicycles and therefore do not require operators to be licensed.
The Freq 8/8/2012 3:07:42 PM ReportJust to clarify, the pedals are fully functional on these E-bikes. I have tried them. Although the bike is slightly wider than a normal bicycle and the pedals are a bit back in position to a regular bicycle, they work exactly the same however, the footpedal part actual folds in if so desired. If the battery dies, you can pedal the bike and no, it is not just a gimmick. ;-)
Nimrod 8/8/2012 3:26:13 PM ReportI luv em!!! When I run over over they don't do any damage and make the cutest beeping noise!
JediMindTrick 8/8/2012 3:27:21 PM ReportTo answer someone's question:
A woman was just arrested in town for riding an E-bike after having lost her liscence due to an impaired charge.
I would much rather have more bicycles on the road than these things.
JediMindTrick 8/8/2012 3:27:23 PM ReportTo answer someone's question:
A woman was just arrested in town for riding an E-bike after having lost her liscence due to an impaired charge.
I would much rather have more bicycles on the road than these things.
10cK 8/8/2012 6:50:35 PM ReportThe power-assisted bicycle is a unique social experiment, as the first motorized vehicle in Ontario transportation history defined as a "bicycle" (and excluded from the definition for "motor vehicle" in the HTA) as it is designed to operate with charactistics similar to the pedal bicycle (the devil we know...)
It is a compromise intended to encourage Ontarians to use an an option in transportation, from concerns about road congestion, air and water pollution (global climate change?) and energy waste.
Concerns being expressed today about ebikes are the same concerns used to try and ban and restrict the pedal bicycle (and every other innovation in transport, including the horseless carriage) for almost 200 years.
The "ebike" is just a convenient scapegoat for the misbehaviour of some cyclists since folks started rolling on two wheels.
Calls to regulate and ban and restrict these tiny energy efficient and "green" vehicles are just an effort to pigeon- hole them into a backward, 20th-century and myopic perspective.
Thanks
10cK 8/8/2012 6:53:47 PM Report"Why should they not be subject to similar insurance regulations if they are to be on the main roads of town?"
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In keeping with the spirit and intent of the laws regarding the power-assisted bicycle they are subject to the same rules as the pedal-only bicycle.
cueball 8/8/2012 6:57:45 PM ReportCase in point: E-bike was riding along on the right side of the road while I was on my motorcycle today. It ended up crossing from the far right lane over to a left crossing lane, in between vehicles waiting at the light, without signalling. A bicycle helmet on, with straps hanging down. In left turning lane, it was on the far right side, behind the right bumper of the car ahead. Motorcycles are supposed to drive in the left tire lane, in order to be seen. No signal light or hand signals used, before making a left turn. Lucky this rider didn't get hit by a vehicle while riding today.
10cK 8/8/2012 7:01:21 PM Report"It is "not" legal to remove your pedals from your E-bike."
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Correct. This contravenes Ontario Regulation 369/09(7):
"A power-assisted bicycle must not be ridden on, driven or operated unless it is in good working order."
......for which the fine is $85. Some Police will say the ebike missing its pedals is magically transformed into a "motor vehicle" but this fantasy is not the remedy under Ontario law.
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deleted_account 8/8/2012 7:05:55 PM Reportfinally a so called dealership in town,even though it`s not really a motorcycle, but it`s something ,it`s sad that there`s kawasaki,suzuki,harley or a honda dealer in town(and no our honda dealer doesn`t count)
10cK 8/8/2012 7:10:27 PM Report"Sure they have pedals, but have you ever seen anyone peddling an e-bike?"
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As with the pedal bicycle there are many different styles of power-assisted bicycle within the legal definition, but they break down into two distinct categories... the ones you see and the ones you don't see.
The ones you see look like 20th-century gas powered scooters. The ones you don't see look like pedal bicycles with motor and battery added. Sales in both broad categories are booming.
They all have pedals, and some are easier to pedal than others. Whether they are pedalled or not makes no difference from a safety standpoint.
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10cK 8/8/2012 7:15:58 PM Report"Nice article... Sgt. Magnan goes into detail explaining that E-Bikes are speed restricted by federal regulations and can only reach 32 km/h. The owner of that bike shop then idiotically makes boisterous claims that his e-bikes do 60 km/h."
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Just to be clear, Federal and Ontario legislations only limit the motor speed to 32kmh. There is no restriction to say they cannot be pedalled faster than 32kmh if so designed. This is no different than the pedal-only bicycle where many riders can and do pedal faster than 32kmh. Anybuddy on a pedal bike can go faster than this down hills.
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10cK 8/8/2012 7:21:45 PM ReportFor a more informed perspective about the power-assisted bicycle, some here may wish to search out the Toronto Electric Riders...
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Sam C 8/8/2012 7:40:19 PM ReportThe key to the E-bike issue is to remember that they are BICYCLES, regardless of their appearance and the electric motor.
Riders must remember this, and not pretend they are riding motorcycles.
Drivers must treat them the same as they would a bicycle.
As for the insurance aspect, hitting one -- or being hit by one -- would be the same as hitting a bicycle: YOUR insurance takes the hit.
The Freq 8/8/2012 9:17:14 PM Report10cK.. this is for you. I do believe when the owner of that shop said 60kph, he meant the the distance you can drive on a charge, which is 60kph. The Echoped models at Walmart go a distance of 70kph but are also capped at 32kph for speed.
10cK 8/9/2012 3:58:25 AM Report"10cK.. this is for you. I do believe when the owner of that shop said 60kph, he meant the the distance you can drive on a charge, which is 60kph."
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Hi The Freq,
Yah, agree, the seller was probably misquoted.
BTW, stated range per charge is routinely vastly overstated for lead-acid packs. For long battery life, assume practical range is about half what is claimed.
And BTW, while I would question the quality (reliability) of any product sold by Walmart, guaranteed their after sale support for an ebike will be the worst in the business.
10cK 8/9/2012 4:16:39 AM Report"I would much rather have more bicycles on the road than these things."
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Less than 2% of Canadians describe the pedal bicycle as their primary form of transportation. It is clearly not a popular choice.
On the other hand, the power-assisted bicycle is getting many more people out of four wheels and on to two wheels. There are now over 200 stores selling ebikes across Ontario. One dealer reported that 80% of their customers are car owners. Another reported that sales have doubled in each of the last three years.
The demographic for folks riding ebikes is quite different than the "traditional" cyclist. Many are older with health issues that preclude 100% pedaling, and for all ages they are a low cost form of transportation rather than a device for occasional exercise.
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The Freq 8/9/2012 6:20:00 AM Report10ck. The friends that have them get about 70kph on the Ecoped brand from Walmart but again, that could vary per owner and usage. As for service, it's done at Twisted Toys which I believe is the same place that services the ones from this main article. There really isn't much to these bikes to service. Motor in the Ecoped is in the back wheel hub, battery in the floor board.
I'd rather see normal bikes on the road to be honest. :-)
10cK 8/9/2012 6:58:45 AM Report"...friends that have them get about 70kph..."
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Hehe... Pretty sure you meant 70km range per charge, but again, deep discharging like this is a (lead-acid) battery killer...
MR40 8/9/2012 8:38:21 AM Reportpeople on here and our goverment keeps say there e bikes are bicycles. there not. they have motors..
A.E.D. 8/9/2012 9:51:16 AM ReportMR40:Your right the bottom line is they have a MOTOR,and the sales ppl. at the slash/icecream shop actually told me theres a site that will sell you a larger more powerfull upgrade that will add almost dbl.the speed,as i tripped on the "CITY SIDEWALK" trying to make my way around those amusing toy motorcycles.
10cK 8/9/2012 11:29:08 AM Report"...people on here and our goverment keeps say there e bikes are bicycles. there not. they have motors.."
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Legally, they are not "motor vehicles" under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act. There is no difference in safety whether a bicycle moving at 32kmh is being pedaled or is using a motor.
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MR40 8/9/2012 12:39:35 PM Report10ck- i dont care what the traffic act says, some one bought the wine in the right place to make these leagal. plain and simple. motor=2wheels=motor cycle..some one at some point( i hope not) is going to get into an accedent or get killed and then it will get re looked at as to if there aloud or not! i have been a mechanic for 25 years, and im telling you right now they dont have good enought brakes to be on the road!
10cK 8/9/2012 1:38:08 PM Report"...i have been a mechanic for 25 years, and im telling you right now they dont have good enought brakes to be on the road!"
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From the article:
"...Hollywood Electric Avenue ... just under a year ago and has sold over 400 e-bikes/scooters in that time."
There are over 200 stores across Ontario now selling ebikes. I don't know if Hollywood is representative, but it is safe to say that tens of thousands of Ontarians already know the truth about your statement...
Very often the brakes on ebikes are superior to brakes on pedal bicycles.
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MR40 8/9/2012 2:07:39 PM Reportha ha..i would like to see that in person! like i said WINE gets you a long way.
MR40 8/9/2012 2:23:04 PM ReportTo answer someone's question:
A woman was just arrested in town for riding an E-bike after having lost her liscence due to an impaired charge. as for this comment, if you dont need any sort of paper work or skill to drive these motorcycles, then whay not be able too? CAUSE THERE MOTORCYCLES..LOL
10cK 8/9/2012 2:52:33 PM Report"CAUSE THERE MOTORCYCLES..LOL"
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The power-assisted bicycle has a motor power limited to 500 Watts... about two-thirds of one horsepower. EVen the earliest motorized bicycles in the late 1800's had motors more powerful than this. I have nEVer seen a motorcycle as "powerful" as this myself...
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cityhallguy 8/9/2012 2:56:12 PM ReportMR40...
When you tripped on that CITY SIDEWALK, did you hit your head by chance???
cityhallguy 8/9/2012 2:57:12 PM Report...or had a little too much wine yourself???
MR40 8/9/2012 3:40:55 PM Reportna mr city hall guy, im fine..but the dude rideing these junk things will hit there head and then the law suites will start. its only a matter of time. this morning there was one on first ave, riding with no helmet, but thats ok too eh!
MR40 8/9/2012 3:42:57 PM Reportactually, maybe city hall hit there head to allow these on our streets..lol
10cK 8/9/2012 4:21:41 PM Report"...this morning there was one on first ave, riding with no helmet, but thats ok too eh!"
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When Ontario fully legalized the power-assisted bicycle in 2009 they did include the requirement that all ebike riders wear helmets. But of course there is no data that ebikes are any more dangerous than pedal bikes, and adult riders on pedal bikes in Ontario are not required to wear helmets.
In fact when Transport Canada studied ebikes in 2000 they found some evidence that the characteristics of the ebike make them safer than pedal bikes in at least one respect.
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deleted_account 8/9/2012 5:21:04 PM ReportI remember the days when moped went through this ,every drunk who lost there licence bought a moped,nedd no insurance,licence,helmet ,it was like the perfect solution,so good that the government had to stop it!!!
10cK 8/9/2012 6:40:11 PM ReportI own a `77 Batavus HS50, awaiting conversion to electric...
:)
nismofan 8/9/2012 7:12:07 PM ReportSo it seems that most people have a problem with the e-bikes because they can't improperly pass them as easily as bikes due to their larger size. Hopefully the police will be taking into effect how many people improperly pass cyclist of all forms.
10cK 8/9/2012 7:41:09 PM Report"...they can't improperly pass them as easily as bikes due to their larger size."
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Hehe... and of course they are no wider than the handlebars of a pedal bike. Narrower than a bike with full pannier bags, narrower than a trike or bike trailer or cargo bike... really, they are only larger *visually*.
And yah, many that have pedaled bikes for years and now ride power-assist "scooter-style" report that car drivers tend to give them more "respect", not passing as closely as they might a pedal bike.
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houston 8/9/2012 10:04:40 PM ReportWhy use an E-bike? We should be riding regular bikes which are better for our health.
10cK 8/9/2012 10:39:39 PM Report"Why use an E-bike? We should be riding regular bikes which are better for our health."
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Some folks have mobility problems eg older cyclists.
Some folks need to get to work without perspiring.
Power-assist can extend the comfortable range of a bike, and "flatten" hills, making the bike more practical for more people.
Because power-assist makes it easier to accelerate, it makes it "easier" for riders to slow down when required or prudent for safety.
The food energy needed to pedal a bicycle is expensive and "dirty". Todays "factory fresh" foods have a high hydrocarbons content and leaves a trail of sewage and packaging in landfills...
(grin)
There are many reasons why the power-assisted bicycle is "better" than the Victorian pedal bicycle.
A.E.D. 8/10/2012 8:13:04 AM Report10CK: I dont no which outlet you are a sales man at but your sure not selling your bull to us on here lol.Yesterday at a major intersection i was behind one of these mini-motorcycles along with 3 other cars waiting to go thru the light but had to wait for this idiot to get off his cell phone as he was talking and not watching the light and smoking a cig.on top of it.And i notice you didnt respond to the upgrades to this electric motor you can get on line, to dbl. your speed.Do you need me to post a link to this site.lol
10cK 8/10/2012 8:31:59 AM Report"10CK: I dont no which outlet you are a sales man at but your sure not selling your bull to us on here lol."
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Sad when folks have to resort to personal attacks, but I have nEVer earned a cent myself selling electric bicycles... Instead, I have wasted my life as an accountant (grin)
"Yesterday at a major intersection i was behind one of these mini-motorcycles along with 3 other cars waiting to go thru the light but had to wait for this idiot to get off his cell phone as he was talking and not watching the light and smoking a cig.on top of it."
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So, some folks riding ebikes behave the same as some folks driving cars?
"And i notice you didnt respond to the upgrades to this electric motor you can get on line, to dbl. your speed.Do you need me to post a link to this site.lol"
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The fines for operating an unlicensed and un-insured motor vehicle on Ontario roads are severe. The minimum fine for a first offence under the Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act is $5,000...
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10cK 8/12/2012 9:13:30 AM Report"As much as I think E-bikes are a great thing, I don't think they should be allowed on the Hub Trail."
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Sadly, this flies in the face of many of the goals and objectives for the Trail.
From the March 2006 Hub Trail Concept and Design Study:
"...both recreational and utilitarian purposes..."
"Walking and cycling are popular recreational activities and means of transportation that are efficient, affordable and accessible"
"...exercise and recreation..."
"...energy-efficient, non-polluting modes of travel..."
"...multi-use transportation system..."
"...a facility that is comfortable for young and old..."
"...a symbol of environmental sensitivity..."
"...Help to create a Lifestyle Shift..."
"...Make it accessible by all..."
"...serve utilitarian purposes of the local commuter..."
The Plan nEVer anticipated the 21st-century power-assisted bicycle, which does in fact support many of its objects...
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