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Over Charged ?
By Mac Headrick Archives
SooToday.com
Tuesday, March 15, 2005

Mac Headrick ArchivesBefore you read this editorial be forewarned it contains a shocking revelation. A Liberal MPP Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest) has discovered that women pay more than men for dry cleaning, hairstyling, and clothing etc. Mr. Berardinetti stated he was inspired by Joanne Thomas Yaccato author of “The 80% Minority: Reaching the Real World of Women Consumers”. Thomas Yaccato estimates that Canadian Women are over charged $750 million yearly on hairstyling alone. How would anyone come up with this figure? Lorenzo is angry and intends to do something about this situation.

Mr. Berardinetti has introduced a private member’s bill making it illegal for women to be charged more than men for similar goods and services. It will be debated April 14/2005. If this bill were to become law it would prevent businesses from charging different prices based on gender. Fines of up to $5,000 would be imposed on anyone breaking the Ontario Human Rights Code by setting prices for goods and services based on gender.

It should be an interesting debate. I imagine all politicians will stick to the same message, discrimination is wrong and something should be done about it. I agree that goods and services should not be gender priced. I do not believe that this bill even if passed would be effective. The solution to the problem of women being overcharged for similar goods and services as men is not legislation. The answer is for women to start practicing discrimination.

Look up the definition of discrimination; “the act of making or recognizing differences and distinctions”. Women make up a significant percentage of the work force. They earn their money and have the right to spend it as they see fit. I use to handle all the finances in our household. Approximately six years ago l made a brilliant decision. I turned it all over to my wife. Now everything is organized, planned and my panic attacks are a thing of the past. My point is women are very capable of making their own financial decisions.

If a women wishes to spend $60 plus on a haircut, what right does the government have to deny this free choice. An example the Liberal MPP used to make his point was a Giorgio Armani suit for men cost $1200 while the women’s version was $2000. While this may be true the bigger issue for me would be who pays $1200 plus for a suit. Of course my standard of high-end clothes is Dockers while my apparel of choice is Big Dog. If a woman interested in an Armani product feels $2000 is excessive then don’t buy it.

I believe in the principles of the Ontario Human Rights Code. I do not feel this is an effective way to deal with gender based pricing. If dry cleaning prices are unjust to women then l would advise them to check around. I believe the free enterprise system will insure that a place can be found that charges a proper tariff for this service. As with the majority of women my wife shops at stores that cater to her taste in clothes. She usually waits for items go on sale and then purchases them. It is not rocket science.

The bottom line is that women are smart and more capable than politicians at looking after themselves. As l see it any gender that can give birth and raise children can decide if they are being over-charged, and more than this they can do something about it.

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Responses: 27

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cWally 3/15/2005 10:12:07 AM Report

Mac,I salute you in your expose.But,lets be real..First off I like to see this bill passed on the bases of "proven" blatant discrimination and second the enforcing of this bill with its references in the Human Rights Code.Really,the fine alone deserves a laugh..$5000,should be $500,000!! Not that I disagree with your discourse,but I think that Mr.Berardinetti is more interested in garnering votes for his own agenda then trying to fight off discrimination for women!!I can't understand why we need a bill to be passed so that women can get the same price for dry cleaning and hair cuts with fines of $5000 and yet for years neglect to give aid for women in real crisis situations(abuse).
Sam C 3/15/2005 11:54:20 AM Report

It may have been an error on the newsreader's part, but I heard this morning the fine would be $50,000.

Hairdressers will argue that because women tend to be more particular about their hairstyles and haircare that it actually costs more to provide the service. I can see that point, although I know a number of men who are just as fastidious as women when it comes to hair care.

I'm not sure that justifies charging $60 for a cut and style job. In my younger years, before my own forehead began expanding, I subjected myself to a perm every 3 months. It cost me $25 at the salon I frequented.

When I moved to Mississauga (in 1986) the cheapest I could find was $60. I believe the inequity between men's and women's prices may be greater in metropolitan areas.

Having said that, I fail to see how a dry cleaner can justify charging more to clean women's garments than a man's suit, but they do.

Bernardinetti may be drawing attention to a real problem, but I agree that his motivation is more likely to garner votes than to resolve this inequity.
grudge 3/15/2005 12:11:20 PM Report

That's like saying it should cost the same for a cleaner to clean a pair of jeans as it costs to clean a pair of $150 dress slacks.
Longtime Resident 3/15/2005 4:39:34 PM Report

Mac : Blue Jeans in the woman's section are 40% higher than the same Blue Jeans in the men's department.
Even though I have shopped for my own clothes all my life---I keep running in to women who are buying clothes in the men's Section and not all of them are for their Husbands.
Now, with Unisex clothes, women can save money by buying their clothes in the men's Department.
Yes, women are discriminated against in several areas.
A woman's hair trim can be $20.00 in some shops that also do men's trim for
$ 12 to $ 15.
I didn't know about Dry Cleaning but I'm not surprised.
A lot of Women now shop all over a store for bargains.
My wife is one of those who knows that she can buy in the men's Section and get similar clothes cheaper.
Trader 3/15/2005 6:05:38 PM Report

Let me see if I got this right.
Man's haircut.....$10.00
Woman's haircut...$60.00
Petition the government to rectify this blatant exploytation of blah blah blah and demand equal blah blah blah......
Government solution:
Forthwith and completely all hair cuts will be $70.00 plus all applicable taxes and requests for all haircuts must be accompanied by a valid hair cut request permit available through the local Provicial Offices($20.00 annual fee).
I love it!!!!!
Sam C 3/15/2005 6:44:40 PM Report

grudge... no, it isn't at all like saying that. It's IS saying if a woman brings in a skirt and jacket she will be charged more than a man bringing in trousers and a sport coat.

Longtime makes a valid point... why SHOULD women's jeans cost 40% more than men's?

I believe a lot of this is a case of suggestive marketing: that women's clothes must be of better quality if it is more expensive.

I also understand Trader's point... if the government gets involved the prices could all equal out, at a much higher level.
grudge 3/15/2005 11:03:10 PM Report

You are such an expert Sam but in your haste to shoot me down you failed to understand what I typed. I'll try again. Go into a dry cleaners with a pair of your jeans, if you wear jeans, in one hand and a pair of $150 pants in the other. See if it will cost you the same to clean both pairs.
grudge 3/15/2005 11:17:35 PM Report

Supply and demand. Are you guys seriously suggesting that the government should regulate retail prices on male/female items?

Women have the same power that men do in retail and that is that if it is too expensive they don't have to buy it. And when they don't buy it, the price goes down.

The same applies to haircuts. I am certain if women spoke up they would find that they could get that haircut for the same price as a man pays (providing it takes the same amount of time and there is no washing). BUT when you bring in the $60 cut aren't you forgetting that it takes the stylist about 10 times longer to do the $60 job?

If you did the math you might find that it is the men that are getting ripped off because they are paying about 3 bucks per minute in the chair while women only pay about a buck a minute.

But you know what? Men aren't going to run to Tony Martin to fight for their haircut rights. No, they will either find a cheaper place to cut their hair or wait longer between cuts. And guess what that will do? Yep, lower the price.
Bob E 3/16/2005 8:08:30 AM Report

First, let me state that I am a V.V.'s shoppper, by choice.
Recently my son (late teens and employed) needed a suit for a wedding. I suggested a trip to the "Big V". I got "THE LOOK." So off we wnt to another local haberdasher, where he laid down the equivalent of the family grocery bill for a few months for a suit,tie and shirt. Point is nobody said he was discriminated against because he was young. He was discriminated against because he was willing to pay it. That may make him careless with his money.That does not make him a victim anymore than it makes a woman a victim if she pays more than she needs to for a _____________
learningaswego 3/16/2005 8:22:27 AM Report

I dunno, Mac, seems on a basic level, like a fairly simple economic principle.....the price charged for something is what the market will bear - in other words, what price people are willing to pay.
If a place charges $60 for a hair style/cut; and nobody came and bought it, then they would either close, or set the price so people did come in to buy.
learningaswego 3/16/2005 8:42:49 AM Report

I don't think the price of jeans example fits - there are $20 jeans in the men's section, and there are $80 jeans in the men's section. Same in the women's section, as I've just been in several stores looking at them.
learningaswego 3/16/2005 9:28:08 AM Report

Just what we need - "the government" to protect us from ourselves again.
We're just not capable of choosing whether to spend $20 on a hair cut, or $60. We can't be held responsible, if we spend $80 on a pair of jeans, when there were some for $30. It's a good thing "the government" will be looking out for us, for we know not what we do.
I can just see it now - people returning their $80 jeans to the store, saying they aren't responsible, and we'll sic "the governmewnt" on you, for making us buy them.
Sam C 3/16/2005 11:54:58 AM Report

grudge, I understood what you were typing, however it isn't a fair comparison. Of course it will cost less to clean jeans than it would a suit. The point being made, however, was that women pay more than men for having SIMILAR outfits cleaned.
Barley 3/16/2005 11:57:49 AM Report

That's right, learningaswego, just let the market deal with everything. If we did that, there'd be no workplace safety regulations, no emmissions standards for cars or factories, no anti-trust legislation, no fairness in advertising laws . . . etc. etc. You think car manufacturers were ever worried that people would stop buying gas-guzzling, smoke-belching cars just because they aren't good for the environment? Of course not -- it required government regulation to force their hand.

It's not a question of the government protecting us from ourselves, it's a question of we the people, through our elected representatives, ensuring that certain segments of the population are not subject to different standards. It's no different from trying to ensure, through employment standards regulations, that women aren't paid substantially less for doing the same work. I'm old enough to have worked in industries where women were automatically paid about 25% less than men for doing exactly the same job. The marketplace didn't change that. It took government regulation.

Certain industries are doing exactly the same thing on the consumer side. It's easy to talk about what the market will bear, but how exactly are women supposed to flex their marketplace muscle when there are no options? Are you suggesting they stop drycleaning their clothes altogether? Should they all start cutting their own hair?

About a year ago, a male reporter in Toronto brought a shirt into a drycleaner & asked how much it would cost to clean it. He was told $3.00. He left the establishment with the shirt, walked to the parking lot & handed it to a female reporter. She took that same shirt into the same drycleaner & asked the same question. She was told $10.00. That's not some justifiable idiosyncrasy of the marketplace. It's blatant, systemic gender discrimination, plain & simple. And it's exactly the kind of thing that justifies government regulation.
ryck1 3/16/2005 12:16:43 PM Report

Boy Sam you really didn't get it did you? Check the material out in those $150 pants and then check the material in those jeans. Now pretend you are the dry cleaner. Will you agree to clean both pieces of apparel for the same price?

Now check out the material in your jacket and slacks and compare it to the material in your wife's skirt and jacket...

Or maybe we could change the scenario to you as a saw blade sharpener. Would you charge the same for all 10" table say blades? If you started out with your righteous "same price for all blades" philosophy you'd either go out of business or you'd learn that you charge more for the more detailed work. More teeth = higher cost.

Same as the dry cleaner:

finer fabric = higher cost.

Hairdresser:

more work = higher cost.
grudge 3/16/2005 12:41:26 PM Report

Its true Barley that women are famous for being overcharged by certain businesses but let's not get carried away. Your reporter example may be true but what is the rest of the story?

Why would women's shirts in general cost more to clean than men's? And if a different male reporter had gone in and asked them to clean the same shirt but told them that it was a woman's shirt, what would the price have been?

I believe most women when buying services don't question the amount, they just pay. Unless they have some guy at home who is going to give them the 3rd degree for paying too much, they just pay without question. And when consumers don't ask, unscrupulous merchants take advantage of it.
Barley 3/16/2005 2:30:39 PM Report

Grudge, thank you for your blatantly sexist assessment of women as consumers. Welcome to the 1950's -- some things in the Soo never change.
grudge 3/16/2005 2:41:03 PM Report

Prove me wrong buddy.
Sam C 3/16/2005 4:46:15 PM Report

No, ryck1, I DON'T "get it."

I don't get why anyone would try to compare having a pair of blue jeans cleaned with having a suit cleaned. (Frankly, I also don't get why anyone WOULD take jeans to the dry cleaners!)

But if we took in a woman's suit and a man's suit, both made of similar material, shouldn't it cost the same to have each cleaned?


ryck1 3/16/2005 7:45:13 PM Report

Hey I forgot. You're the guy who can't see why women's jeans might cost more than men's. And it looks like you would charge the same for sharpening all 10" blades, no matter how many teeth.
Roxx 3/17/2005 6:22:51 AM Report

This is simple. I get my haircut and it's $20 and I'm out in 20 minutes. My better half goes in for $60 and spends 2 hours. It's chair time that's all.

Our maybe because I have less hair!
Sam C 3/17/2005 11:48:55 AM Report

I gotta say, grudge... I was with you through the first two paragraphs, but that last one definitely smacks of sexism. The world has changed a bit since June asked Ward to call the Beaver in for dinner.
grudge 3/17/2005 2:29:21 PM Report

Yeah I know I should have reworded it to be politically correct. If I worked for Harvard they'd want me fired - even if what I said was true.
grudge 3/17/2005 2:46:24 PM Report

And the world may have changed a bit since Leave It To Beaver but part of the reason that women may be charged more for certain services is that they aren't assertive enough to ask the questions that need to be asked.

Some men are this way as well but everyone has heard the stories where a woman goes into a car repair shop and gets burned on repairs she didn't need.

It happens to guys every day, but I'll bet it happens to women more.
Sam C 3/17/2005 2:52:47 PM Report

grudge... I understand what you're saying, and you're right. It just always sounds better when you say "may be the reason."

You're also right in suggesting there are men who will not say anything, either. My parents once went to the movies for the first time in many years. Mom sent dad to the concession for a popcorn and two pop. When asked "what size" he replied "large."

He was astonished when they handed him a bucket the size one might find at KFC, but was too embarassed to say anything.
grudge 3/17/2005 3:03:45 PM Report

Hey Sam C , here's one for you ....

Have a Happy St. Patrick's Day ...

and I mean it. You seem like a good guy ... have a great day!
Sam C 3/18/2005 9:16:10 AM Report

grudge... Thanks! You too.

Responses: 27

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