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View Room Comments for Tuesday, Jun. 10 2014

Tuesday, June 10, 2014   by: The View RoomWelcome to the SooToday.com View Room. This editorial feature is for you to post comments. To comment on a specific news story please post your comment directly under the news story.
Comments
56
Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
book-end 6/10/2014 5:33:26 AM Report

Area CUPE workers support Ross...... a BLIND MAN COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING.
bounder 6/10/2014 5:59:49 AM Report

Good morning and a happy day,your debt to the tax man is over,not bad 24 weeks to pay off the thieves.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 6:56:55 AM Report

Where's rw? He would really enjoy this message.



http://conservativelogic101.net/the-climate-flip-flop-that-will-blow-your-mind-video/
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 7:31:13 AM Report

Bookend,
Who would you think most CEO's and very wealthy people would endorse? Now ask yourself....why???

The NDP provides an alternative to people that the other parties won't or can't. I'm not NDP, but they represent my socio-economic status much closer than the Cons. Therefore, it bodes well to elect a party that closely represents my position in society and has the potential to actually do so. To do otherwise, is to bite my nose off to spite my face.
book-end 6/10/2014 7:36:06 AM Report

I agree Big Brother..... it was not my intention to knock the NDP .....
flyhawk25 6/10/2014 7:49:59 AM Report

BB...some website.
First of all - conservative logic is an oxymoron.
To them expediency equals logic.Like Hudak's 'this morning there are 1M unemployed in Ontario'. If all 66K unemployed today farted at the same time we'd still get more methane out of rw's swamp.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 8:42:49 AM Report

I do get that also bookend. And really, I'm not an NDP, although there is no shame in such ideology. Hell, I'm more Marxist than Capitalist, according to some people.

I can't help but be amazed at people though. If people voted according to their social position or (I'm having a hard time with the correct wording)....but if people voted in their best interest, the NDP would win in a landslide. And if they had the power long enough, they would soon realise that, the country can't be run like a candy store. Nor, alternatively, can it be run like a boot camp, ala Hudak.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 8:45:19 AM Report

Fly, ya gotta love it eh??

The hypocrisy and flip flopping is a standard for right wing politics. The Flat Earth Society is alive and well!! I'm convinced that with the right push, propagandists could get people to actually believe, once again, that the earth is flat.
Budster 6/10/2014 8:45:29 AM Report

I'm just curious about this... but what % is the human factor involved in the in the ratio of things that contribute to "carbon footprint" that contributes to "the climate change" that has dominated this site at times? What % is attributed to volcanic eruptions and other natural events that makes this such a contentious issue? Is the human factor the major cause for this? and if so by what degree? From what I've gleaned so far is that the human factor is really quite small compared to the natural factors. I think we need to take care of where we live but is man the major contributor to climate change as is propagated?
Wild Turkey 6/10/2014 8:48:32 AM Report

Re poll---Where's pistachio and black cherry??????
soowat 6/10/2014 9:08:44 AM Report

BIG BROTHER

The earth isn't flat?

Quick! Tell Whodat,Harpo and da haze
flyhawk25 6/10/2014 9:21:50 AM Report

If the calls I'm getting from the NDP are any indication there is a sense of urgency in the Ross camp.
This is Orazetti's to lose.
notpc 6/10/2014 9:45:14 AM Report

Budster

Your question is the question that everyone should be asking. No one really knows the answer but environmental radicals think they have the answer when they assume first that carbon dioxide is actually a problem, and second that human activity just must be the major cause of that problem. Of course there has not been one iota of actual proof linking carbon dioxide and man's activities to climate change. Only speculation based on computer models designed by people who already believe that man must be the cause. Circular reasoning at its worst, not real science.
Wisenheimer 6/10/2014 9:45:55 AM Report

Quebec is finding out what "paying the piper" looks like.
Ontario is rushing into the same predicament.
The Libs paid Don Drummond good money to sort out their mistakes but of course neglected to heed his advice.
The bond market will run the Province for the next spell, no matter who wins on Thursday.
You're welcome.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 10:27:36 AM Report

notpc,
'environmental radicals'


More commonly known as scientists, experts in their respective fields.
Budster 6/10/2014 11:17:02 AM Report

Big Brother:
I understand what you are implicating; so if these "experts in their fields" are that good they should be able to give out a % of the area they are trying to control. So far all studies done, by these experts, always say what the payee wants to hear. Those promoting aggressively "human contribution" all seem to have dollar figures attached to mans compliance. Dollars that go into their pockets and the more people buy into this the more money they make for themselves. Yes I am skeptical because as in all things money in my pocket reigns supreme. In most things integrity has no value any more.
notpc 6/10/2014 11:18:26 AM Report

Big Brother
One is only a true scientist when one bases one's conclusions on verifiable facts that can be tested, not on speculations based on computer models created to give one the results desired. The "scientist" who does that is a radical, in whatever field he or she is in.
steelworker 6/10/2014 11:21:50 AM Report

They are "experts in their fields" as long as the money flows in from the suckers.
Resident 6/10/2014 11:23:20 AM Report

And the earth is flat.
Resident 6/10/2014 11:27:55 AM Report

No industry that is polluting is making money? Not in their interest to deny ANY man made contribution to climate change?
theprotector 6/10/2014 11:29:14 AM Report

Bud, I recently watched a show on tv and it was a doc about carbon id. I did somemore research into this topic and they can determin the origins of the various emmsions such as from volcanos, forest fires, and yes identify the human caused sources as each has a unique marker. It is at the molecular level. Hence the urgency in various nations restricting emmisions.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 11:47:01 AM Report

I am skeptical of many things. At some point though, one has to trust and put their faith somewhere. I'm not an expert, but I have enough sense to respect experts in given fields. I've witnessed the screening process required for someone to be labelled an expert. It is not the political fields, which is influenced by major money also. ie. the Koch brothers buying the Tea Party and putting major pressure on the GOP.

Some scientists are on the extremes of believability...granted. But, when significant groups of them, coming from an International body of scientists, across a span of backgrounds and they reach similar conclusions about an issue, we should be listening and paying attention. They do not set policy....they merely report findings. Shutting them down because we don't like the message is not the answer.

notpc 6/10/2014 1:04:25 PM Report

Here is a relatively new discovery that shows just how much more complex the climate issue is than many of these so-called experts would have us believe.

http://www.sciencerecorder.com/news/underground-volcanoes-contribute-to-melting-of-antarctic-glaciers/

For years the experts have been telling us that the ice is melting in West Antarctica (ignoring the fact that it has been increasing in East Antarctica) and that it is caused by global warming from increased man-made carbon dioxide emissions. Well, they were right about the ice melting, but apparently they were completely wrong about the cause. Now they have discovered previously unknown volcanic activity under West Antarctica that appears to be causing the melting.

Now think of the implications of this. Environmental radicals would have us ruin our economies to solve a problem whose existence is premised on the supposition that warming is primarily based on man's economic activity. And these suppositions are based on simplistic hypotheses that have never been proven. Imagine how ridiculous it would be if we kept on discovering other reasons like this volcano to explain the warming phenomena we see, AFTER having ruined the economies of the developed world.

I certainly wouldn't be making major decisions like that, given the dearth of real scientific information we have in our hands now.

Jimssm 6/10/2014 1:15:19 PM Report

Scientists OVERWHELMINGLY come to the same conclusion regarding climate change.

Study after study after study.

Governments (who pay them with grants) don't like the answers they give... so all those who say the scientists give the answers their benefactors want to hear aren't looking too close.

On the other side, those (few) scientists that are paid by energy companies and big oil to find holes in the climate change model are doing exactly what they are paid to do. If you don't find any problems with the climate models, we won't hire you next time.

On one side, you have paid scientists, saying what their employers don't want to hear.

On the other side, you have paid whores, saying what their employers want them to say.

Who to believe ?







Niigaanis 6/10/2014 1:16:56 PM Report

re: climate change

The only thing I need to affirm whether there is actually climate change or not is to read/hear how Herr Harper has put a gag order on Canadian scientists disallowing them from reporting their findings on the subject. That in its self is enough for me.
book-end 6/10/2014 1:17:13 PM Report

I just Love how " Global Warming " has become " Climate Change " in such a short period of time... never heard of either in the 60's or 70's or even the 80's ........ and by this point in time has been re-named numerous times . LOL
Jimssm 6/10/2014 1:25:19 PM Report

notpc:

Did you even read the UTIG article and research ?

It states that climate change is not 'the only' cause of West Antarctica melt. It's the major cause, but there are other factors and more models need to be created to better forcast dates when ocean levels will rise enough to cause problems.
Jimssm 6/10/2014 1:26:37 PM Report

Climate change was always the scientific term... 'global warming' is the political term.
notpc 6/10/2014 1:40:05 PM Report

Jimssm

Of course they all come to the same conclusion. They all base their findings on the assumption that their man-made computer models are correct and that no other explanation can be valid. Then they demonize the minority of scientists who step out of the box by questioning those assumptions. That's not how one does science, unless one is motivated by an agenda that is bigger than the science itself.
notpc 6/10/2014 1:45:54 PM Report

Jimssm

Yes I did read it. And yes the volcano is not the only cause but it is the major cause. In other words, the narrative has now moved from the cause being almost entirely man-made, to perhaps not at all man-made. All because we didn't have enough information to come to the first conclusion in the first place. Which is my point. We can't make major, economy ruining decisions based on current information that comes from people trying to make information fit badly designed computer models. Like NASA regularly adjusting temperature readings to make the early 20th century look colder and the latter part of the century hotter.
Wild Turkey 6/10/2014 1:49:52 PM Report

Jimssm---I like your"
" who do you believe" entry.When both sides are in it for the money,truth can sometimes be lost.
As far as the flat earth people go---Didn't the round globe people get Rubbed out during the inquisition.Turns out the survivors were right.Or were those photos from space staged in a warehouse in Houston?
Jimssm 6/10/2014 2:18:22 PM Report

Notpc:

It's not a volcano.... and it's not the major cause....according to the Austin research.

I'm not talking about the news article, I'm talking about the actual Austin research the article refers to.

Budster 6/10/2014 2:29:08 PM Report

The point I was trying to make is at what point does man made contributions become major contributions. If man's part is less than say 10%, even if we reduce our contributions by 50% it is not going to have much of an effect on climate change. How do we gauge what % is ours. There seems to be huge areas of overlap and I'm trying to find a logical place to draw the line. Changing our life style and mode of living just for the sake of change is not really logical. If the Many scientific contributors can label so many things that play a part why can't they give a reasonable % as our portion? To say we need to change but we don't know if it will make a difference is no reason to change.
theprotector 6/10/2014 2:46:47 PM Report

notpc sorry you are simply wrong!

notpc 6/10/2014 2:59:40 PM Report

Jimssm

The terms used were "magma flows" and "associated volcanic activity". You can say that isn't a volcano but the net effect is exactly the same. It's heating the ice and it isn't from man-made carbon emissions.

irishfey 6/10/2014 3:01:09 PM Report

URGENT NOTICE.... " BUTTERSCOTCH RIPPLE" IS AT BOBBERS IN BRUCE MINES ,lol
notpc 6/10/2014 3:01:19 PM Report

theprotector

Saying I'm wrong doesn't make it so, even if you're sorry. Elaborate.
Jimssm 6/10/2014 3:16:43 PM Report

The study (the one you linked) did not say it wasn't man made causing the melting.

That's not even what the study was about. It was stating that the causes of the melting was very complex and more models were needed to predict the timing.

The average 'volcanic' heat under the ice is 100 miliwatts...1/1000 of the heat of a light bulb...spread out over each square meter.

If you're saying that is the major cause of a huge glacier melting, imagine what all the heat wattage output of mankind can do.
steelworker 6/10/2014 3:41:03 PM Report

notpc: the protector has spoken!!
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 3:51:55 PM Report

Jim,
'On the other side, those (few) scientists that are paid by energy companies and big oil to find holes in the climate change model are doing exactly what they are paid to do.'

Look no further than the Koch brothers....these two public nuisances have more money than brains, but still want more. Greed is an illness. And they aren't scientists, but can afford to buy a few dozen per day. Look into who has major control of the Tar Sands. Look into who is sponsoring the Tea Party. Eventually a picture will begin to form in your brain. Join the dots....they eventually lead you to Canada and the Reform Party.
steelworker 6/10/2014 4:04:42 PM Report

Are the Koch brothers any relations to Al Gore? They seem to be in the same business (peeling suckers for profit).
Resident 6/10/2014 4:46:23 PM Report

The "flat earth society" probably says(said) the same about anyone thinking different then their minority opinion MUST be suckers.
steelworker 6/10/2014 5:18:09 PM Report

"Flat earth society" = lib speak for "swampers".
DutchTouch 6/10/2014 5:27:52 PM Report

irishfey........still can't beat Maple Walnut icecream.
lookaround 6/10/2014 5:50:13 PM Report

Steelworker what gives with your lack of something meaningful to say. Ever
steelworker 6/10/2014 6:31:19 PM Report

I try to keep it simple for some of our more addled readers. You're welcome.
rockbanger 6/10/2014 6:47:00 PM Report

Science is based on a valid theory until someone can disprove the standing theory. Nothing less.

The geologic record shows many things that are relevant to our planet and it's environment. The 'rock record' shows that earth has experienced numerous times when CO2 levels were significantly higher than today. Some of these incidents have been correlated to mass extinctions.

The record also shows numerous times when the earth's ocean levels were excessively higher than today. This indicates when most if not all of the glacial ice had melted.

This data proves that yes CO2 has been out of control before and we are the cause of the ice melt this time around.

Now if any of the bloggers has the data and brainpower to negate the validity of the rock record, please enlighten us.

When you do not have a basis for your argument, you do not have a valid argument.


DutchTouch 6/10/2014 7:04:34 PM Report

The rock records tell no lies. Take it or leave it.

We seem to be going through the same old cycles.

Right now there are millions more humans on earth and we haven't been known to take extra special care of our fragile environment. Will the next millenium be any different?

Our grandchildren may be the last generation to know what it's like to experience the natural environment.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 7:25:19 PM Report

And here most of us thought that a rock is....well, a rock. Thanks rockbanger. Finally some sense.

Dutchy, you said a mouthful there. In my short lifetime, I've seen development in areas I never would have suspected would ever change in many lifetimes. I imagine you would say the same. There seems to be no areas left that man hasn't, at minimum, touched. We usually leave signs of our having been there. Timmies cups, MacDonald's wrappers, broken bottles, etc.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 7:30:00 PM Report

I prefer the Inuksuk.
DutchTouch 6/10/2014 7:50:46 PM Report

Big Brother when I see the garbage that's been thrown along our roadways it makes me wonder just what sort of species we are.

Do we really appreciate the wild beauty of this country or use it as a convenient garbage dump?

Very, very sad to think that except for a few 'tree hugger" types, not many people feel the need to be good stewards of our earthly home.
shakespeare 6/10/2014 8:04:10 PM Report

I recall a few years ago in Ireland, walking down a street in Limerick. A young lad opened the door of his terraced house and threw a crisp (chip) bag and his ice cream wrapper into the street. It was not an isolated incident. When I emigrated, I was really impressed with Canadian cleanliness. It's not the greatest now, but certainly better than most places I have visited.
BTW: the greatest sporting event begins in two days. England will, no doubt, trounce those blue Mediterranean types on Saturday.
BIG BROTHER 6/10/2014 8:35:03 PM Report

Shakey interesting hearing from someone who has traveled and has first hand stories.

Dutchy....isn't it so very sad. One of my earliest memories was travelling the Ranger Lake road when it was a mere cow path. Cars had to slowly go around one another, yielding room for each other. Now it's a highway. As is Garden Lake road, our destination in those days.

I'm quite impressed by some American towns. Marquette comes to mind, as it is our cousin city on the 'Big Lake' and I went to school there. Fell in love with the city, among other things. They take great pride in their town. Even Soo, Mi. is a proud city. Old doesn't have to mean 'run down'. Maintenance.
irishfey 6/10/2014 8:36:26 PM Report

Dutch Touch,, Yes the Maple Walnut is good but i don't like the nuts ,lol... Night all....
mallet 6/10/2014 9:37:23 PM Report

shakespeare...

I am not so sure that the limeys will reign supreme over the blue Med types, when even the manager is saying not to get your hopes up, it does not bode well. My home town team had such a manager, who was always "ruing" the results an looked what happened, City got relegated.. I have a sneaking suspicion that the winner will be from that continent...
statusquo 6/10/2014 10:22:55 PM Report

On my epic bicycle rides along the Searchmont highway I have the opportunity to have a more intimate experience with the surroundings then a motorist would and so I have seen everything from pop cans, engine oil containers, cigarette packages, the ubiquitous Tim Horton coffee cup, the equally ubiquitous styrofoam food container , Walmart bags, beer cans, feminine hygiene products, a golf club, a deflated soccer ball, hamburger wrappers,lighters, pens, socks,a naked doll with one eye and arm missing, several shoes, a couple of hard hats, batteries, tires but never...ever money!

The barbarians live among us. They have no regard or a sense of care for the spectacular and pristine surroundings we are lucky to be within a short drive's reach.
They do not comprehend how lucky they are to live in this region of Ontario.
And yet...they want to shoot the bears!!!
Something just doesn't compute.

Comments
56
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