AlwaysAWinner 5/19/2014 2:50:59 AM Report
So the US government is intercepting packages, installing surveillance hardware/software on them, and mailing it back to the customer.
And you think Snowden is a villain? LOL keep taking it from behind dummies. Snowden just showed the world how big of a lying bully the US continues to be. He changed the way everyone looks at privacy now, especially in regards to how heavily tracked the internet and electric communications are.
Anyone who continues to complain that Snowden revealed secrets to the enemy is just a retard.
When your government starts intercepting packages illegally, and illegally installing surveillance equipment, then illegally spying on someone, maybe that government isn't worth respecting anymore.
steelworker 5/19/2014 4:40:44 AM Report
Oh no: the U.S. government is tracking my top secret shipment of beanie babies. The horror.
Jimssm 5/19/2014 7:30:56 AM Report
I guess if your beany baby came in with a camera and microphone installed, you'd have no problem either. After all, you're a law-abiding citizen so there's nothing to hide.
I find it so ironic that the same sort of people that say 'the government has no right to know if I own a gun or not because the RCMP may show up at my door someday to collect them' ... have no problem with that same government tapping our phones, listening in on our conversations, reading our emails and tracking our movements.
Anyone else see the disconnect here ?
soowat 5/19/2014 7:40:13 AM Report
One of the main reasons that I read comments on this site is that, on occasion, a comment is made that does such an excellent job of succinctly pointing out an absurdity that I get a good chuckle. Your comment a few minutes ago was one of those. Thanks for making my day
Stanley 5/19/2014 8:40:13 AM Report
It's good that Canadians spend so much time worrying about the US government, seeing their government is so pure
"A top secret document retrieved by U.S. whistleblower Edward Snowden and obtained by CBC News shows that Canada's electronic spy agency used information from the free internet service at a major Canadian airport to track the wireless devices of thousands of ordinary airline passengers for days after they left the terminal."
I know, I know ...it was tolerant and compassionate spying
Spellchecker 5/19/2014 8:44:19 AM Report
WORDS OF THE WEEK
haven't, amateurs, acquire
bred (as in 'having been bred during slavery'), than (as in 'in more ways than one')
tenet (as in 'a basic tenet of modern society')
asinine, addendum, artificial
Great job, theprotector, only two errors. Are you after my job?
Bobby Nerves 5/19/2014 9:05:54 AM Report
Whom do I call educated?
First, those who manage well the circumstances they encounter day by day.
Next, those who are decent and honorable in their intercourse with all men, bearing easily and good naturedly what is offensive in others and being as agreeable and reasonable to their associates as is humanly possible to be... those who hold their pleasures always under control and are not ultimately overcome by their misfortunes... those who are not spoiled by their successes, who do not desert their true selves but hold their ground steadfastly as wise and sober minded men.
flyhawk25 5/19/2014 9:15:41 AM Report
AlwaysAWinner 5/19/2014 9:18:22 AM Report
wow, never saw that, I'm going through the pdf now and it's pretty clear; the US wants to know everything about everyone and everything as much as possible
I don't care if these are secrets for the enemy (which they're not), this government is violating the law and basic human rights with this kind of behavior. No ethical government would ever do this, these are people with power who are abusing it.
Bill_the_Cat 5/19/2014 9:22:30 AM Report
Always seems to have a fetish for anal rape.
Mission creep by the intelligence community is worrying. Very worrying. I am as sensitive of privacy as anyone. Governments of every stripe engage in dodgy activities.
This fact does not give citizens the right to engage in high treason with all means available. There be dragons that way. What's next? A federal building in Oklahoma? Letter bombs? Kidnapping trade officials?
That is a very real and well documented slippery slope.
flyhawk25 5/19/2014 9:23:04 AM Report
And how much of this would we be aware of if it were not for Snowden?
Bill_the_Cat 5/19/2014 9:25:40 AM Report
Having written that last post, I Imagine I've been flagged for mentioning those activities.
Guess I'm about to enjoy some of that FBI bum-loving Always touts so much.
Bill_the_Cat 5/19/2014 9:28:07 AM Report
Fly: more than you'd think. The FBIs MAGIC LANTERN was reported on in 2001. Congress/parliament/EU parliament have expressed concerns over the years.
Snowmen got the man in the street worried. That's a good thing.
Bill_the_Cat 5/19/2014 9:29:20 AM Report
Lol. iOS autocorrect. Snowden.
AlwaysAWinner 5/19/2014 9:34:22 AM Report
maybe if you people would actually read the stuff that comes out, you'd realize the problem. look at the article Stanley posted, there's a leaked government pdf showing how they plan to track locations and users.
this is the problem: they want to use a needle in a haystack solution. they want to mass track and monitor wifi locations, to get a location and idea of regular users on that network. when someone kidnaps a kid and makes a random call, he's likely to do travel to do it. if he happens to hop on a network at the same time that the call is made, they're able to basically "narrow it down". they're not proving this user did it, they're assuming everyone else is innocent. but what happens when they can't eliminate to one? they mention that in the document, that they can eliminate a large majority of the possible users but they obviously can't put it to one every time.
that's when "what were you doing here at this time?" is asked because you were at the wrong place at the wrong time. you didn't do anything wrong, but they have their eyes on you, and they were able to do it without your permission and pretty much illegally
it's guilt by assumption, so many guilty people are jailed because of BS reasons like retracted witness testimony, and soon-to-be situations like this
this is why people have an issue with what's going on, it's not just a bunch of young people whining about privacy, there's people recognizing a serious issue with the way governments behave, this isn't right or okay to do and it's not ethical.
AlwaysAWinner 5/19/2014 9:38:42 AM Report
by the way, the left or the right could easily have a huge history of someones online activity. you're telling me politicians wouldn't blackmail someone to the end of time with information like that? no way man, people and money are traded in politics like baseball cards, there's no way in hell mining and tracking this information is going to do more good than harm, no way at all
Just Curious 5/19/2014 10:05:40 AM Report
Paranoia at it's finest...People, Ol' J Edgar Hoover had dirt on just about everyone and the FBI still does, along with the CIA. The big difference is it's a whole lot easier now. In a lot of ways it's a good thing, that's how they nail a lot of these child Porn people and drug dealers. I don't agree with what Snowden did at all, tho.
flyhawk25 5/19/2014 10:13:11 AM Report
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't snooping on you.
Pilgrim 5/19/2014 10:27:17 AM Report
Considering the discussion here over the past 2 -3 days, I found this to be an extremely interesting article.
HEADLINE - New York Times
"Never Forgetting a Face"
"Making his rounds at the trade show, Dr. Atick, a short, trim man with an indeterminate Mediterranean accent, warmly greeted industry representatives at their exhibition booths. Once he was safely out of earshot, however, he worried aloud about what he was seeing. What were those companies’ policies for retaining and reusing consumers’ facial data? Could they identify individuals without their explicit consent? Were they running face-matching queries for government agencies on the side?"
"Pointing to the intelligence documents made public by Edward J. Snowden, he adds that once companies amass consumers’ facial data, government agencies might obtain access to it, too"
On a personal note. Although I understand the need for surveillance and security, technology has now made it so easy for not only governments but, retailers, manufacturers et al to obtain information about me that my life is no longer private..... Cynic and skeptic that I have become in old age, there is no doubt in my mind that information gathered about me is not only being used as was originally intended, but there is an economy of trading and/or buying of said information .. scary thought... as for Snowden ... he was a spy not a whistle blower IMHO ....
statusquo 5/19/2014 11:01:08 AM Report
Clearly the spying on ordinary citizens is a bit hard to take. But it is what it is and Snowden or not, governments all over the world are engaging in this sort of thing in one way or another.
Snowden could have stopped short of handing sensitive, detailed and highly classified information to the enemy!
He is not primarily a whistle-blower but a spy, traitor and should be dealt with accordingly.
He put lives at risk. He gave both terrorists and foreign, unfriendly governments valuable information on how the U.S and by extension us conduct intelligence.
This information will undoubtedly put our very own troops at risk during the next conflict. It will put the public at risk next time we board a plane etc.
We live in an increasingly paranoid society. Cameras and surveillance everywhere . Ask the victim's families of 9/11 if they would have minded being "spied" on if that would have prevented said event.
I won't respond to Always a winner since he is obviously very young and /or off his meds and frankly, his anal obsession freaks me out, but undoubtedly he will come back and claim that not all terror attacks can be prevented. Of course they cannot, but I for one will rather give up my privacy and use all the tools in my arsenal than have some terrorist asshole blow up a Disco, or hijack a plane .
We cannot have Nirvana .....not in these times. We need to learn to deal with it.
I also sense a deep anti American sentiment in the Snowden supporters.
It is perfectly fine to criticize the U.S, and I have done my fare share of it, especially when it comes to foreign policies .
But I ask you this....we as Canadians, given our history , have we not benefited from the U.S in more ways than not? We are inextricably linked with our neighbour to the south both economically and most certainly militarily. Canada could not do it alone! We would be the next Ukraine. Keep that in mind next time you rail about the U.S
We as a nation would not exist without the U.S .
Do you people think there is really nothing wrong with giving sensitive information to characters like Putin? Or the Chinese ? Or disclosing to every terrorist how we gather information?
What in the world is so sacred about your privacy that you put it up higher on your priorities than lives that will be at risk, no doubt due to the thoughtless actions of Mr Snowden who in my opinion should be handed over to the U.S, given a trail and locked up.
flyhawk25 5/19/2014 11:06:46 AM Report
So let me get this straight.
We give up freedoms to get other freedoms?
statusquo 5/19/2014 11:17:13 AM Report
Sure...that is how it looks like.
I would like to bake a cake and eat it all by myself, but it's not how reality works.
Do you really think that Snowden revealed something most sentient human beings did not suspect in one way or another.
Is my life better now because of him?
What exactly has he accomplished that somehow enriches my life?
I do not know, but what I do know is that from now on I will feel a hell of a lot less safe when I board a plane and I do know that our soldiers will feel the same way next time they are send to a godforsaken hellhole to fight for somebody else.
notpc 5/19/2014 11:19:41 AM Report
Historically it appears that the willingness of citizens to tolerate increasing invasions of their privacy and the subsequent loss of freedom, is directly proportional to the level of fear they feel that their personal safety is in jeopardy. People will give up almost any freedom to the government that promises to give them personal security in return.
statusquo 5/19/2014 11:20:10 AM Report
And you can wax about the big bad U.S all you want and talk about moral principles.....it's fine, but on this point you and I will not agree. Snowden is a pathetic weasel and he should be hunted down and stand trial for treason.
All Is Well 5/19/2014 11:24:43 AM Report
What freedoms are we talking about? Every keystroke, every website visited, every cell call, every time you use your credit/debit/air miles/ card is logged. Every time you make a withdrawal/deposit. Every time you leave the country, board an aircraft/cruise ship. Ever time you step into a casino. Today, even getting into your new car means how fast you drive/brake, when you get into an accident and where you are. There are numerous other examples. But you get the drift. Only staying in and leaving technology turned off, you may have a chance at some privacy.
Bill_the_Cat 5/19/2014 11:25:38 AM Report
SQ has the gist of the situation, though I would prefer greater judicial oversight over said activity.
I am also unwilling to surrender privacy or freedom in the name of some amorphous 'security'. Franklin's quote is still pertinent.
It is a delicate balance--that's why we have the press, the judicial, and the executive systems in our civil society. To that end, I do support those NGOs and not for profit groups'-the EFF most importantly--efforts to bring these issues to light.
Not sell them to the highest bidder.
Pilgrim 5/19/2014 11:48:02 AM Report
@ All Is Well re: 11:24:23
My point exactly ... and I repeat, I am convinced that the info gathered by one source will ultimately end up shared among others... either, sold, traded or bartered...
mallet 5/19/2014 11:50:44 AM Report
Do you not find it strange that Snowden and that other person Assange find it easy to attack countries that have a judicial system but not those that do not. They hide in places they know they cannot be held accountable for their actions, I wonder what happened to their "Moral Stand" when they might have to face up to those stands.
I wonder what would happen if airport and sea ports went back to checking I D's the old fashioned way, people would have to spend 2 or 3 days in "detention" while their identity was checked, seeing the number of people who travel today. I just want to know what "freedom" I have lost, after all they do not tell you if they issue a search warrant for your house,phones, whatever, so how would you know unless they turned up on your doorstep..
And Flyhawk, why did you not answer the hypothetical question I asked you??
Albedo 5/19/2014 12:06:22 PM Report
Edward Snowden could have easily collected information that was pertinent only to his crusade of protecting and informing his fellow citizens that they were in danger of being spied on.
That would have been whistle blowing.
His actions most likely turned into a best seller.
Instead he included information that was classified and sensitive to the security of the U.S. and allied countries.
That is treason, the crime of betraying ones country.
That is why he is living in Russia.
I trust he is enjoying the winters.
At some point the Russians will have maxed out on Snowden and will show him the door.
Wild Turkey 5/19/2014 1:15:52 PM Report
Remember---"Loose lips sink ships"---from W.W.2?.The Gov't encouraged people to spy on their neighbours.
Call it paranoia, or whatever, but the West is in an undeclared war of terror with the extremists.
Spying on private citizens is part of the overall security plans of western intelligence agencies.
Many may not like it, but it is necessary for our own protection.
How many plots have been foiled?
Small price to pay.
Bill_the_Cat 5/19/2014 1:31:00 PM Report
albedo: most likely a prisoner exchange.
If there are any mistakes in the Baltic resulting in loss of life by service personnel, Snowden will be strapped to a gurney.
On the other hand, we could have a poll:
a) meet with an unfortunate illness
b) have a car accident resulting in death (very common in Russia)
c) randomly shot on street (more than one Russian journalist has met his/her end this way)
d) live in a small apartment with a round Russian lady until death, like Philby
lookaround 5/19/2014 2:25:58 PM Report
As a newbie I have never been on the list
of the spelling faux pas. Pardon moi mon française
rockbanger 5/19/2014 3:18:46 PM Report
Just looked over this blog site...
Just finished reading Orwell's 1984....
Big Brother is watching, listening and reading.
Bobby Nerves 5/19/2014 4:15:47 PM Report
Statistics from the World Health Organization.
Alcohol consumption killed 3.3 million people in 2012.
And we can enjoy you. Sadly.
No one dies in the eve.
Mr. Poster 5/19/2014 4:17:35 PM Report
Are we finished with Snowden..yet ??
ROLAND_ROLLY 5/19/2014 4:41:16 PM Report
How about discussion about something relevent about CANADA... the rest can just leave.
Crappy room now that the regulars have been moved out by the do gooders...lol.
Sad....Go bad to the Red Room where you came from.... have breakfast...whatever
ROLAND_ROLLY 5/19/2014 4:43:14 PM Report
BTW.. I would engage in an intelligent conversation regarding Canadian issues but unfortuatately I would be speaking to the minority !
statusquo 5/19/2014 4:57:54 PM Report
flyhawk25 5/19/2014 5:28:01 PM Report
SQ...we seem to agree on having Snowden stand trial.
Until he is found guilty by a jury of his peers I reserve judgement.
rockbanger 5/19/2014 6:41:35 PM Report
Perhaps you would use your high level intelligence and start a mind boggling conversation.
Go ahead. You start. We are on the edge of our seats and expect a brain numbing lesson on life or world affairs.
lookaround 5/19/2014 6:47:31 PM Report
Be nice it gets you friends.
rockbanger 5/19/2014 7:12:23 PM Report
I am nice and sincerley mean it.
Start a mind blowing topic.
Topics could be....Antarctica is experience massive melting but it can't be caused by global warming..... Nato and the US want the world to start a massive war in Europe.... do people rally love the British monarchy so much that we should pay for their vacations here...
I mean it Roland_Rolly should use his trapper wit and start a fabulous blog. Or go away and keep quiet.
Snobank 5/19/2014 7:44:04 PM Report
Anybody else holding their nose and voting liberal in the next Ontario election?
Snobank 5/19/2014 8:54:38 PM Report
Castigat ridendo mores. Orwellian.
lookaround 5/19/2014 9:14:08 PM Report
Okay here is a topic. Should we outlaw circuses?
lookaround 5/19/2014 9:16:27 PM Report
Snobank shhh you are going to wake up the folks living in the swamp. LOL. Better the swamp quiet and still than a froth of gurgle.
Resident 5/19/2014 10:12:10 PM Report
Resident 5/19/2014 10:14:04 PM Report
Regarding banning circuses.
irishfey 5/20/2014 6:35:57 AM Report
Good Morning folks. I seen on the early morning news that the U.S has charged five of Chinas Military Officers with stealing information from the US. China is really peeved off at the States , will this take the heat off of Snowden now? What's next.. war with China?? If China pulled in all the US. debts, would it make the US bankrupt?.. Gee , what a mess the world is in!!!