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View Room Comments for Friday, May. 16 2014

Friday, May 16, 2014   by: The Soap BoxWelcome to the SooToday.com View Room. This editorial feature is for you to post comments. To comment on a specific news story please post your comment directly under the news story.
Comments
89
Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
flyhawk25 5/16/2014 7:05:17 AM Report

BB...the last posting of the night made me chuckle.
I'd say that you have a fairly good knowledge of the UP.As I do.
The place is not exactly a portrait of cultural diversity.Nice people but there aren't a lot of minorities there and their attitudes are not surprising.
I've done some interaction with some of the local high schools and the kids are polite and the schools safe.Think Mayberry.
To use the area as an example of attitudes of more than just rural America is not accurate.
Wisenheimer 5/16/2014 9:30:34 AM Report

CNN Breaking news ...
Solange and JC admit joint responsibility for the incident on the elevator!
Flight 370 still missing!
Bobby Nerves 5/16/2014 9:31:32 AM Report

The success of a politician is to convince people that he's Mickey Mouse, then people will forget that he's still a rat.
Right Winger 5/16/2014 9:37:29 AM Report

Certain local "newspaper"(wish I could show the air quotes) has online presence. Uses white font over mostly white picture. Good job IT kids
old-cat33 5/16/2014 9:38:10 AM Report

Good one Bobby.
Two years ago we headed out to Ranger Lake on our 4-wheelers for a weekend ride. It started out like today but by the afternoon it was rainy and wet. By the time we pulled into Aubrey Falls for gas I had to stand up on my trusty Honda and brush the snow off the windshield!! ...LOL.
All the 5Th wheel campers along the way were parked and no one was outside too damn cold!
Not going nowhere this long weekend to damn cold.
TFinn 5/16/2014 10:15:18 AM Report

Not a nice experience, and an embarrassment.

I had to attend the city courthouse one morning last week for some business, haven’t been there in a long while. I was greeted at the front entrance by a grumpy cop at the security check …what reason would a city paid person have to be so grumpy and curt, there is no excuse, they are paid well for what they do, plus I have never met this person cop before, he has his nerve to treat myself or others in that manner …he needs a refresher course in how to treat people.

Furthermore …the parking and grounds around the courthouse are deplorable. The walkways and stairways are filled with the remnants of gravel from winter, this could be a hazard for walking, especially for people that have a mobility problem, the gravel particles on the steps could cause a slip and fall. Papers and debris are all over and blowing around. Who takes care of the courthouse and grounds …it seems no one, it is a disgrace in this condition. Whom ever is in charge should be ashamed, and needs to get off their A**es and tend to their responsibilities .
Bobby Nerves 5/16/2014 11:44:17 AM Report

I do not intend to teach anyone, but would risk an opinion... you should be faster in recognizing an erectile dysfunction.

That's typical symptom aggravated due to a low resourceful patient far beyond the point of recovery.
Just Curious 5/16/2014 11:49:20 AM Report

Bobby...????????
Just Curious 5/16/2014 11:56:34 AM Report

Maybe it's just me but I think it's almost time to put flight 370 to rest. There has already been millions spent trying to locate it without any success and it's not looking much better for the future. I feel great sorrow for the people lost but I think it's gonna be one of those great unsolved mysteries of the world, to be found by future generations with much more sophisticated equipment than we currently have.. IMHO..
notpc 5/16/2014 12:46:16 PM Report

Just to continue a bit on the global warming-climate change issue, the Climategate e-mails from a few years ago revealed that there had been considerable suppression of scientific papers skeptical of global warming. This latest news shown in the link below shows that the suppression is ongoing.

It also reveals that the oft-quoted statement based on John Cook's research that 97% of scientists believe that climate change is real, man-made and dangerous, is actually false. Another researcher gained access to Cook's data and found out that his statistical methodology was wrong. He's been threatened with a lawsuit and worse by Cook's employer if he reveals what he knows though. So it appears that this scientific consensus about the global warming scare really is a scam. Otherwise, why would Cook's employer be so afraid of having the raw data revealed.

Some here might complain that my link is from Breitbart which means that it is suspect as it is a pro skeptic media outlet, but Breitbart got their information from the London Times, which has generally been pro global warming.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/16/Climate-McCarthyism-the-scandal-grows
steelworker 5/16/2014 1:25:26 PM Report

Not to worry. France just announced that we have 500 days to stop global warming or it's all over.
cathyh 5/16/2014 1:49:14 PM Report

Just Curious: My goodness, people are still looking for the lost city of Atlantis and someone thinks they have just found the Santa Maria from the Christopher Columbus expedition. Flight 370 has only been missing since March 8, 2014. I read this morning that there seems to be some lying going on about the actual data that is being used to search for it. I hope they don't stop looking for it and if I were a relative of someone on board that plane I would try to make sure that the search never ends.
Bobby Nerves 5/16/2014 2:00:59 PM Report


Thank you for an outstanding lunch and an entertaining conversation all with a good company.

It was nice meeting you.

You know who you are.

Say hi to your neighbors, but keep one eye on them.

Well, to be honest, keep both eyes on them, and your hand on the mice then you can alert us when he does the move.





Just Curious 5/16/2014 2:11:28 PM Report

cathyh; Yes, people are still looking for lots of things but they are being privately funded. The world has already spent enough to give each family a million dollars, I would expect, and any possibility of finding it is just about nil, never mind actually getting down to it. I know it's hard to place a value on a human life but to try and keep up a false hope is just as hard. There will be rumors and stories and blame thrown out all over the place for years and I really do feel sorry for the ones who lost family but there comes a point in time to start the healing process and move on. I have no doubt that at some point someone will invent something that can see that far down and possibly retrieve the plane, by which time there won't be enough left to identify. Just what went wrong we will probably never know but I will bet that the tracking of all aircraft will drastically improve because of this..
redranger 5/16/2014 2:14:28 PM Report

Have they located Judge Crater yet? I am certain that the Crater family would love to move on.
cathyh 5/16/2014 2:17:27 PM Report

Just Curious: Those people received insurance money. The people who are left to mourn will move on but that doesn't mean the search has to stop. There are too many unanswered questions to stop at this point and airlines need the answers to those questions in order that an event like the missing 370 doesn't happen again. As I said before I hope they never stop actively searching for the plane.
steelworker 5/16/2014 2:20:33 PM Report

Amelia Earharts' family is still looking.
Nunavut 5/16/2014 2:24:50 PM Report

Well Cathy then send Australia and the other countries your money because it is estimated to be close to a hundred million so far.

Sometimes you just have to admit that mother nature will keep her secrets in the ocean depths. Why does man always think they deserve to know...when the cost to know is at the expense of others. The multi millions spent on this is then not spent on government hospitals to save lives there.... or not spent on other valid charities or purposes that actually can save lives.
AlwaysAWinner 5/16/2014 2:50:01 PM Report

"what reason would a city paid person have to be so grumpy and curt, there is no excuse, they are paid well for what they do"

you're DELUSIONAL

stop assuming public worker = fat paycheck

it's idiots like you that give government workers a hard time for no reason. public sector is NOT on par with private sector, if anything it's weaker. governments always get beat by private sector, they can struggle to find qualified applicants because they can go work for HP or Microsoft for the same job and make more money

just stop.

the work isn't glamorous, the pay isn't glamorous, you're just assuming way too much

don't bring up the sunshine list stuff either. news flash, people make 100K+ in other companies to. people are paid by their qualifications and skills, not because they work for the government so yippie, here's 100K salary
ROLAND_ROLLY 5/16/2014 2:52:37 PM Report

Quote from the Sault Star from Mr. Fremlin:

"But Rod Fremlin suggested media reports misconstrued the information and job cuts would be made through attrition over the next few years.

“This will be done under a plan and it will be done through attrition, retirements,” the Progressive Conservative candidate said of the move designed to cut 10% of the public payroll."

I have NEVER seen this addendem from the Leader of the P.C.'s, until then, I'll treat it for what it is worth.. nothing.

Can someone verify Mr. Fremlin's statement ?

mvnnth 5/16/2014 2:55:28 PM Report

@ notpc

"It also reveals that the oft-quoted statement based on John Cook's research that 97% of scientists believe that climate change is real, man-made and dangerous, is actually false."

"It" does eh? Perhaps it would be enlightening were you to read an article on the subject published a few months ago in the Tampa Bay Times (Jan. 14th to be specific). To find this article simply Google "No evidence behind climate change denialism". Perhaps then you would cite a few examples of scientific articles that refute the scientists who seem to corroborate the findings of John Cook's work. As the TBT article points out, that won't be easy. Good luck.
ROLAND_ROLLY 5/16/2014 2:57:02 PM Report

Too all concerned: Don't worry about the end of the world, the missing plane etc. It is all smoke and mirrors...worry about what's going on in this city and province.

The powers that be want us all to be more worried about sporting events, overseas issues so we won't concentrate on what is going on DIRECTLY around us.

Keep up the condesdending crap if you wish, the reality is... try looking at what is going on around you instead of getting your internet artifical feelings hurt !
ROLAND_ROLLY 5/16/2014 2:57:03 PM Report

Too all concerned: Don't worry about the end of the world, the missing plane etc. It is all smoke and mirrors...worry about what's going on in this city and province.

The powers that be want us all to be more worried about sporting events, overseas issues so we won't concentrate on what is going on DIRECTLY around us.

Keep up the condesdending crap if you wish, the reality is... try looking at what is going on around you instead of getting your internet artifical feelings hurt !
AlwaysAWinner 5/16/2014 2:57:52 PM Report

also, climate change is REAL you dummies. there is absolute 100% fact that CO2 PPM is higher than it ever was, and that there's problems

every scientist in the world is telling you there's a problem, ice caps melting, water levels rising, harder more extreme weather, yet people think there's a green agenda going on?

yeah we're putting up windmills and being environmentally friendly to screw with everyone, HAHAHA OH WOW GOOD ONE

there's some pretty easy math going on. we do something about it, we save the planet. we don't do anything, we RISK screwing up the planet.

WHY WOULD YOU NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

why would you go "NOPE, IT'S ALL GARBAGE, IT'S NOT TRUE" and sit there and RISK killing the planet

it's the ultimate form of idiocy. if I told you a giant tidal wave was coming, YOU MIGHT SIT BACK ON THE BEACH A LITTLE FARTHER, NO?

honestly man, the beer drinking steel worker who sits at home watching sitcoms DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. he's an idiot. there's intelligent, qualified scientist who make it their job to research weather and the climate. and every single one of them is telling you things are not good

and you sit there and listen to the beer drinking idiot?
ROLAND_ROLLY 5/16/2014 2:59:40 PM Report

I for one, wish M. Brown would return ! At least there would be one voice of reason instead of all the hugs and kisses, breakfast etc. that has infiltrated this room from the red room.
irishfey 5/16/2014 4:32:40 PM Report

Dearest ROLLY.. I miss Mr. Brown also and wish he would return too. In the meantime, as it is too late for breakfast, would you like to come over dear for tea and cookies? I just made a batch of the little dainty ones with the strawberries and cream on the top. I would expect hugs and kisses first though, and of course we would have to say grace first. We could sit by the fire and i could tell you whats been going on in the Bold & the Beautiful. If you like I could invite some Christian friends over and we could talk Climate Change from the Bibles point of view. I would make you feel welcome and cozy in my little home and my little doggie would smother you with his little kisses too. You would have to keep your nappie on your lap while eating my cookies though, as i don't like crumbs on my floor. We could sing nice songs while i play the piano also. I think if you come over, it would decrease your stress levels as i see you are a tad upset.... I will put the tea on now so it will be just nice when you get here :) :)
notpc 5/16/2014 4:39:43 PM Report

mvnnth

The article in the Tampa Bay Times basically proved the point made in the article that Breitbart got from the London Times. That there has indeed been a concerted effort to blackball any scientist who goes against the current dogma about global warming.

The hacked e-mails exposed in the so-called Climategate revealed that scientists who wouldn't go along and agree with global warming computer models and data were not to be published in the more reputable journals and magazines. So it should be no surprise that the vast majority of articles published in the journals cited by the TB Times are going to support global warming. That despite the discrediting of the "hockey stick model," the lack of warming for the last 17 years and the constant changing of historical temperature data by NASA to make it seem like it was much colder early in the 20th century and much warmer later.

Having been a scientist myself (chemist) I have spent some time reading some of these articles purporting to prove global warming. They often have been highly speculative and focused only on data that supports their predetermined view. Or they ended up explaining why the data that doesn't support their view needs to be adjusted, always in a way that then supports global warming.

As for Dr Cook's study supposedly showing that 97% of scientists support global warming, why then is the University of Queensland that hired Cook going to such great lengths to prevent his data from being exposed to public scrutiny? If the data is so solid, they should be glad to let it speak for itself.
irishfey 5/16/2014 4:46:42 PM Report

And ROLLY.. I promise i won't invite any of those nasty nice folk over from the Red Room, They can be so annoying at times huh? :)
66cherokee 5/16/2014 5:48:05 PM Report

On the CBC 5 o'clock news, one of the Green Party's platform is getting rid of all the school boards, and making it into only one. This would save the taxpayer over 1 BILLION dollars annually. The NDP, Liberals and Conservatives won't touch that with a ten foot pole, and it's to bad. Quebec has already done this without a Constitutional amendment. Quebec has one school board, they have become a secular society. Quebec is probably the biggest Catholic Province in the country, and yet, they have taken the bull by the horn and saved taxpayers money by having only one school board. Ontario could go that route.
lookaround 5/16/2014 5:52:56 PM Report

Alwaysawinner careful lol because on here you are either for or against global warming and if you are for (like I am) the flat earth society will call you out and send their forefathers from the mothership to microchip and probe you. Check before showering.
The ice packs have melted, proof positive with real time satellite. What other proof other than firestorms and increased weather activity do you want? Oh I forgot the glaciers have either been melted to an ice cube or are in the process of calving large chunks the size of P.E.I. Let them believe what they want. Makes for a good chuckle,
Resident 5/16/2014 5:54:27 PM Report

Has anyone had "representatives" from an energy company (Elite?) asking to see their PUC bill? Said they want to check that the smart meter rates are proper? I declined even though supposedly no number taken down and I would sign nothing.
Resident 5/16/2014 5:56:48 PM Report

Who is the Green Party representative in the Soo?
Snobank 5/16/2014 6:21:01 PM Report

"Meanwhile, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — much of whose state is now fated to sink beneath the waves — weighed in on climate change. Some readers may recall that in 2012 Mr. Rubio, asked how old he believed the earth to be, replied “I’m not a scientist, man.” This time, however, he confidently declared the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change false, although in a later interview he was unable to cite any sources for his skepticism.

So why would the senator make such a statement? The answer is..."

http://to.ly/xQLb
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 6:38:39 PM Report

fly,
'To use the area as an example of attitudes of more than just rural America is not accurate.'

Who said I was using the UP of Mi. as an example of attitudes across the nation. It's a stretch, to say the least, fly. Or, in literary terms, a hasty generalization.

Actually, it was a tongue in cheek reference, using the age old denial of being a bigot, by stating that 'some of my best friends are Murican' or more commonly seen, 'some of my best friends are __________ (fill in the blank). That's about all. Nothing more.

I thought you held a higher opinion of me fly. My mistake.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 6:51:30 PM Report

Snobank,
That article hits huge bingo's. On just about every level. The biggest lie that comes to my mind and those who now know better tell us to get past it. It's old hat, yet there are the others who still buy the story....the famous Weapons of Mass Destruction. Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's, 4500 US soldiers and untold damage to a once beautiful country, with architecture thousands of years old. Yet, if you question the logic, you're obviously a liberal left commie socialist, bla,bla,bla!!

Love this line....'his party’s intellectual evolution (or maybe more accurately, its devolution) has reached a point of no return, in which allegiance to false doctrines has become a crucial badge of identity.'
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:00:14 PM Report

Thanks for the link Snobank. It made me laugh....nervously. Intellectualism is being degraded and poo-pooed. How sad, when the alternative is knee-jerk, wet finger in the air science.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 7:02:15 PM Report

bb: Krugman's line is equally applied to both major US parties. That's the shame of it.
flyhawk25 5/16/2014 7:04:55 PM Report

BB...my apologies.That was not my intent.
I value your opinions and your friendship.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 7:06:34 PM Report

66cherokee: I believe altering the school system can be done unilaterally by the province in question (NFLD, QUE) with assent of the Federal Government. I do not know if that is possible in Ontario, as the BNA Act was never abrogated.

Outside of senior management/admin and trustees, I wonder where the 'billions' come from. The numbers of children would not change.
66cherokee 5/16/2014 7:12:24 PM Report

Bill the cat

Start just adding up the number of people on the ADSB, they have a lot of admin who make well over $100,000 and then you ad the Separate School Board, and then there's the French school board etc. In the province there are 4 school boards altogether. Just add up the salaries. It won't take long. I'm not a green party fan, but it was very interesting what they proposed.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:12:36 PM Report

Very true Bill.

I do know if I say that Fox news is playing a huge part in this sad direction though, I will get an earful about CBC or CNN.

I look, for example, at the Benghazi story, which has been analysed and poked, prodded and beat to death (no pun intended). Meanwhile, under Bush lite, Reagan, Clinton, etc., there were more attacks against diplomats and they used to draw the country together, not turn into a political blame game and a left/right issue. It was an attack against America on sovereign soil.
steelworker 5/16/2014 7:19:34 PM Report

...and Obama did nothing to cheese off his fellow muslims.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:23:02 PM Report

....and I rest my case!!
steelworker 5/16/2014 7:27:37 PM Report

Go rest your 2 brain cells. Obama and Clinton let those people die and then blamed it on some Grade "B" movie.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:29:25 PM Report

Actually Bill, upon re-reading the article, it is quite specifically aimed at the GOP. The entire article is about Marco Rubio, a well known Republican, who can't quite seem to get his story straight.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:30:29 PM Report

steely, if I agree with you, will you just stop with the dumb noise.
lookaround 5/16/2014 7:32:57 PM Report

Steels Obama won and your problem is...? Stop while you are still coherent.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:37:41 PM Report

What about Edward Snowden? Hero or traitor?

Historically, he would have had buildings named after him in the US. If the right to bear arms can carry so much weight, what about the out of control government that the 2nd. amendment is there to protect the people from.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:44:51 PM Report

Colin Powell, one time right wing hero. George Bush spokesman. I always liked him, as a straight shooter with some integrity. Upon announcing the true story, apologizing for telling the American people a pack of lies, he became persona non grata among the GOP. A traitor, according to some very powerful party people.
Bobby Nerves 5/16/2014 7:45:15 PM Report

BB, let steelworker write and express an opinion.

You are running around the bushes to push steelworker out of the box.

Opinions may be wrong when in juxtaposition with yours, but the right to an opinion is well above any comparison.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 7:46:03 PM Report

BB: Agreed. I've always felt the american view that news coverage is 'unbiased' a tad bit facile. In the UK, there was never such pretense. I know exactly what I'm getting when I read the Telegraph/Guardian/Times/Mail(for the shock value you see).

More dangerous have been the cuts to news agencies foreign desks over the past 25 years or so. That makes for dangerously naive and ill-informed reporters. This is worsened by the advent of the 24h news cycle.

Alas, enough whinging.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 7:51:16 PM Report

Bobby...
'BB, let steelworker write and express an opinion.'



When I see a reasonably thought out opinion, I'll respond accordingly. In the meantime, when did you take over the moderator's job?? Read his posts and get back to me Bobby.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 7:52:49 PM Report

66: I still don't find a billion. Over the years, perhaps, with accrued pension values.

I am not poo-pooing the concept, just the numbers.

If the Ministry of Education would take proportionate cuts, that would be bril. There seem to be many many 'special advisors' (read: retired principals and superintendents) roaming around....advising.
theprotector 5/16/2014 7:55:07 PM Report

BB snowden has confused the hell out of the American base. They still cant come to terms with that situation! Thisnhas short circuited even the staunchest flag waver and the hardest core big brother conspirator!
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 8:12:02 PM Report

Pro,
It is a complex issue. His exposing of the terrible things the US government is doing to the world and to their own people, should be commended. But, on the other hand, it could and is being considered traitorous.

There was a time, in their history, where they would be organizing a parade in his honour.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 8:28:24 PM Report

Pro: Snowden (and to a lesser extent Manning) are excellent examples of the failings of the intel community. Why a contractor (Snowden) and a mentally unstable Manning had access to such documents is the real question.

statusquo 5/16/2014 9:37:17 PM Report

Bill,

Not only is it a real question...it is mind boggling.
Snowden and Manning, but mainly Snowden, did incalculable damage to the U.S and by extension to us and our allies.
I am not defending the spying by governments on it's own citizens but it has gone on for time immemorial it's just that the tools available today are far more intrusive than they ever were and after 9/11 this is a different world.
There comes a point when one has to make up his mind on who's side he is on. Pick a devil and stick with him.
They are both traitors and should be treated accordingly.
Bobby Nerves 5/16/2014 10:00:55 PM Report


Or, aren't them God's envoys to punish americans for their sins?

God got furious with all americans after the Clinton-Lewinsky affair.


statusquo 5/16/2014 10:03:09 PM Report

To add,

In the not so olden days this was called espionage . But today those two little weasels are hailed as folk heroes amongst the delusional folk who truly believe that nations can live in peace and "dirty" tricks should never be employed by "decent" nations.
International politics is an extremely dirty game. What Snowden did is unforgivable and he should be hunted down and beaten with a stick.
statusquo 5/16/2014 10:25:27 PM Report

BB,

I skipped over your last comment...




"Pro,
It is a complex issue."

No, it isn't complex at all...Snowden is a spy! A dirty little weasel!

" His exposing of the terrible things the US government is doing to the world and to their own people, should be commended."

What he "exposed" is sensitive strategic and tactical military and intelligence information.
I have to ask you BB, who's side are you on?

"But, on the other hand, it could and is being considered traitorous."

And so it certainly should!

"There was a time, in their history, where they would be organizing a parade in his honour."

I guess you haven't researched this topic thoroughly .


As always,

Respectfully,

Your Faithful Servant.....but not today!
(smiley face)
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 10:44:02 PM Report

Well, SQ, I did refer to it as a complex issue.

On the one hand, we have an American citizen, exposing state secrets, but not for financial gain that I'm aware of. A tad altruistic and very naive.

On the other hand, we have state secrets, which were discovered using illegal methods against their own citizens and against their constitution.

This is a conundrum. Ideologically, it goes against my grain that the government is being allowed and given a free pass to be so intrusive. Realistically, it is a brave new world, but we haven't yet re-written the social contract, allowing governments these rights. If it was my responsibility to protect the country, I'd likely hang them both. But, as an observer, I can understand their (Snowden's) motives.
statusquo 5/16/2014 10:54:04 PM Report

Just to clarify BB,

What Snowden stole and made available for all to see compromises the U.S's military capabilities, operations, tactics, techniques and procedures.
He handed thousands of documents to the Russians and possibly to the Chinese.
Why do you think he is in Russia right now?
The breath and scope of those leaks will harm our security in incalculable ways.
I say "our" because we live here and are intricately linked with the U.S for our economic and military security. It is the way it is and I wouldn't want it any other way . With some knowledge of history I still far prefer living under American Imperialism as you might wish to call it, as opposed to any other country, as the atrocities committed by other imperial powers in the past make the U.S look like the Red Cross in comparison.

Moscow and Beijing are now well aware with the operating procedures and intricacies of Western intelligence-gathering, allowing them to fine tune their own operational activities accordingly .
And I don't even want to get into what Al Qaeda has gained from this little scheister's shenanigans .
So no BB, on this topic we certainly do not agree !





BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 10:55:50 PM Report

SQ,
'What he "exposed" is sensitive strategic and tactical military and intelligence information.'

Is this true. If so, you are absolutely correct. I was of the opinion it was more along the lines of domestic information, done in the name of national security. You know, who's Rush's dealer....that sort of thing.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 10:58:25 PM Report

Is it a fact, that he has handed over to the Russians anything of importance. I hadn't heard that before.

I can see the dilemma. And it is in our National security interest also, for sure.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 10:58:26 PM Report

Is it a fact, that he has handed over to the Russians anything of importance. I hadn't heard that before.

I can see the dilemma. And it is in our National security interest also, for sure.
statusquo 5/16/2014 11:00:12 PM Report

BB,

Snowdens' motives will likely never be revealed. But that doesn't matter...the damage is done !
It is a cruel and sinister world out there and I know what side I am on...even though I often times have to hold my nose.

look at the Ukraine situation, look at the Middle east...look at the Sudan, Nigeria etc.

I far prefer Northern Michigan....just thought I'd throw that in there....
(smiley face)

statusquo 5/16/2014 11:01:20 PM Report

"Anything of Importance"????

He sure did!
statusquo 5/16/2014 11:03:56 PM Report

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-10-09/the-damage-of-edward-snowdens-revelations/
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:04:31 PM Report

No argument there SQ. And us Canucks are very fortunate to be joined at the hip of the US, for sure. We have a mutual interest in each other's security.

I had no idea he was passing this info to the Russians or anyone for that matter, especially the military variety of intel.
statusquo 5/16/2014 11:12:20 PM Report

well...he did,

Bill the Cat said earlier that the real question is how it is possible that douche bags like Snowden and Manning weren't properly screened and were allowed to have access to such highly volatile information .
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:13:57 PM Report

'Whatever his (Snowden's) motives for travelling there, it's hard to imagine that Russia's security and intelligence services wouldn't be delighted to get their hands on exactly this kind of information, and could be highly persuasive in their pursuit of it.'

I didn't see a reference to him handing anything over to the Russians or any other group though. Still, not a good idea to be hanging out in Russia with such damning intel. Glen Greenwald didn't give any indication that this was the case either.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:15:20 PM Report

Still, it's a very insecure situation for such sensitive information. I get that...
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:15:23 PM Report

sq: I am in agreement. Had Snowden not handed over intel to foreign powers, I would have sympathy for his cause. And to a degree, there is some merit in it.

Setting aside the 'terrorist winning' arguments: that the Chinese and Russians (and whomever that writer for the Guardian and his boyfriend choose to give copies to) have raw intel outlying both SIGINT and HUMINT methods is quite indefensible.

We are seeing increased difficulty in assessing Russian troop movements in eastern Europe. Strangely, this began after Snowden sought asylum. Whilst correlation does not equal causation, I think it's safe to draw a line between these two data points.

Most people would have preferred to ignore that which everyone suspected: that the US had instigated a massive domestic intel gathering operation, so massive in fact, that the only way to cope with it was to hire/contract large numbers of operators whose security could not be adequately vetted. Blissful ignorance is not an option any longer.

Holding up Snowden as a paragon of virtue is to whitewash the whole incident, and displays an alarming amount of national self-hate and self-destruction. He is no Fuchs or Rosenberg, but neither is he selfless.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:18:56 PM Report

bb: It would not surprise me to wake up and find Greenwald in custody. All it takes is a slip in NATO-Russian relations with loss of life.
statusquo 5/16/2014 11:21:15 PM Report

Bill,

There is a "hero deficit" in the West. It looks like anybody will do.
We need to wise up to the stark realities of this not so brave new world.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:22:37 PM Report

Well said Bill.

I am curious, as to how Greenwald has access to Snowden without being considered a tad complicit with him.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:25:02 PM Report

sq: How can there be a deficit? Isn't everybody a hero? First responders, service personnel, their collective families, people who save pets, those who raise money for charities....

People who just get on with it.

Heroes all.

<end sarcasm>
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:26:16 PM Report

I have apparently overdosed on my cynical pills this evening.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:27:52 PM Report

I find a similarity with the abortion issue. In my heart, I am against abortion. In an ideal world, it shouldn't happen. Having said that, if I had to vote on the issue in Parliament, I would have to vote in favour of it, with many conditions attached.

In my naive, idealistic heart, I am against what the US and, to some extent, our own government are doing....re: spying on their own people. But, as you say Stats, best just plug your nose and follow the realities of the world. Putin is displaying some psychosis management style that is dangerously unpredictable.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:29:26 PM Report

bb: I would like to know as well. Greenwald has said that he expects arrest. We know he's been interrogated.

How did Snowden do a TED talk? He blew so much smoke you'd think he was angling for the cover of Cigar magazine.

The state of the US despairs me sometimes.
statusquo 5/16/2014 11:30:04 PM Report

Cynical pills are ok....don't do Soma!
You'll end up in the Red Room pouring cyber tea and reciting poetry.
statusquo 5/16/2014 11:33:26 PM Report

"Putin is displaying some psychosis"

I don't have an issue with that as long he refrains from displaying his freshly waxed chest.
I can't handle any more Stockwell moments.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:34:33 PM Report

Bill,
That was and is my issue with Iraq. IMO, it was a reckless waste of much potential goodwill. The whole world was behind the US after 9/11. The unprovoked attack on Iraq used up all of that goodwill and left a very bad taste in many people's mouths. Obama has been dealing with the backlash from the international community. And he isn't squeaky clean either.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:38:03 PM Report

Stockwell was at least put in his place by those actions. Putin is more enamored with himself and his flock are forced to reinforce those feelings of self love. A Napoleon complex.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:40:37 PM Report

It does make one appreciate democracy.
Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:41:16 PM Report

Putin has the good sense to avoid the Jetski.

*ahem* My Poem

Virile Russian Bear
Photo-ops with nubile girls
Putin in summer.



Bill_the_Cat 5/16/2014 11:45:03 PM Report

BB: agreed on Iraq. Add to that no plan for civil government post Saddam; no rebuilding process; dodgy security; and the failure to anticipate internicene warfare.

Fun times.
BIG BROTHER 5/16/2014 11:50:17 PM Report

Good poem Bill. Better stop now or you'll soon be sipping that tea in the RR, like SQ said. Besides, we agree on something and it releases me for a good nights sleep. Good time to say goodnight.
Snobank 5/16/2014 11:52:32 PM Report

At no tgime anywhere have I ever seen a politician at such a loss and talk complete nonsense for so long a time. Just to end your day with a laugh.

http://to.ly/xRsF
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