David Poluck 3/23/2014 7:11:41 AM Report
Good Sunday Morning!!
I've been reading the comments on the "sunshine list" story. The divergence of opinion. Fascinating variations of world view.
Grump 3/23/2014 7:34:41 AM Report
Good morning everyone, time to rise and shine. David I certainly agree as I doubt if many on that list would fetch that kind of salary in the public sector, let alone the golden benefits. Status I will see you Monday as I have to stock up on rot gut chicken and rum. Hope you are greeting at the American store so I can save all that money. You seem to have upset the Mopar kid last evening. He is kind of anti-social anyway as I invited him to come and have lunch with me and he was a no show. Shakespeare you are correct it is a terrible thing to make personal cracks about our Prime Minister. This is similar to the remarks the Goon Squad make about the Leaders of the Opposition. That said those that have no respect for others or themselves deserve what comes their way. Have a great day all.
Wisenheimer 3/23/2014 7:39:45 AM Report
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife, nor his manservant nor his maidservant nor his donkey nor his ass, nor his "Sunshine Club" salary!
Envy is bad for the soul.
Wisenheimer 3/23/2014 7:44:03 AM Report
Grunt .. your wheel may be spinning but your hamster is definitely dead.
David Poluck 3/23/2014 7:53:40 AM Report
Wise...I still don't think what I'm reading is envy but a growing unease to the higher overhead price for the top paying positions.
Grump is correct about fetching those wages in the private sector, so I wonder why it seems to be the government norm.
Is there an answer?
You tell me.
Grump 3/23/2014 8:03:02 AM Report
David asking for an intelligent answer from the King of stupid comments is a bit much. LMAO
David Poluck 3/23/2014 8:05:26 AM Report
Just a thought...out of all municipal recipients of municipal coffers...city Councillors are the lowest on the pay scale for service yet are the ones that are the most visible and held the most responsible by the people for what happens at city hall.
Why is it that the top positions are not
electable we do for council?
David Poluck 3/23/2014 8:06:17 AM Report
Grump, Be nice! lol
Grump 3/23/2014 8:16:56 AM Report
Wisen I know you are not going to get it but I'll waste a bit more time this morning anyway. Public sector jobs should be in line with the Private sector ,in fact they should be paid a bit less because they have more security, less expectations of performance and far better working conditions and benefits. Further many residents are barely making it these days and I'm sure are upset and offended by these fat salaries. In my business I don't care how much my employees make as long as they are earning it. Earning it being the key word.
Grump 3/23/2014 8:19:30 AM Report
David I am being nice, I haven't cut off his air supply. lol
Javaman 3/23/2014 8:24:45 AM Report
Are these salaries you are talking about in line with what other cities of our size are paying ?
Do other cities of our size have TWO councillors per ward?
Do other cities have a DEPUTY police chief?
David Poluck 3/23/2014 8:41:05 AM Report
Java, Good questions. Leading to further questions.
1) Possibly but in your calculations are you looking at all of the contributing factors such as average personal incomes, business and industrial base and taxation rates?
2) I don't know but let's find out.
What cities would you suggest we compare?
3) See answer for question 2.
Javaman 3/23/2014 8:56:50 AM Report
How about Sudbury,,,North Bay,,,Orillia,,Timmins..Tbay
Grump 3/23/2014 9:00:57 AM Report
Javaman, the problem with Public Sector wages is not restricted to the Sault. Public Sector wages have climbed because they are not directly coming out of the pockets of those that approve them. It is too easy for elected officials to simply keep approving wage increases, rather the go through a negotiation process. Then they go further and select a few cities with solid tax structures to use as a comparison and up we go again. In the meantime the Private sector workers that have to pay the wages of the Public sector workers slips farther behind year after year. If all the pension and benefits were figured in, those workers actually expecting those fat benefits better figure out where that money will come from. More moderate wage expectation now could well mean they may get a paid pension after all.
Bobby Nerves 3/23/2014 9:13:36 AM Report
A place to start:
Access to HR and hiring practices.
If I had to find a needle, I'll probably divide the local government in areas. Prepare a questionnaire and request an answer/opinion to those involved in each area of government, not necessarily to those working for.
I always sustained that the best CEO ever was Lee Iaccoca. Go to the grass roots and ask for an opinion, there is many people doing the job with bright ideas on how to do it better, faster, safer and economically.
I'm not versed in English, but I guess you can put the questions together, not closed questions, but rather those open ones where people with knowledge in the field can give you a good reference.
Wild Turkey 3/23/2014 9:13:39 AM Report
Some would see the "outcry" over high civil servants salaries as envy.However,
when compared to public salaries, they are almost always lower, or playing catch-up.
Others, particularly savvy youth see it as an opportunity to excel.Failing to make the big time wages in the private sector,they can opt for a high paying public sector position.
Can you equate envy with determination ?
Wild Turkey 3/23/2014 9:14:59 AM Report
Sorry---when compared to private salaries, they are usually lower.
David Poluck 3/23/2014 9:24:05 AM Report
Java, I'll send a request to Mark King in Northbay who is now a Councillor and former president of their taxpayers association and Dan Melanson of the Suddbury taxpayers group for some information.
I would think that Northbay would be a closer comparison than Greater Sudbury but never hurts to have both to compare.
May take a few days for replies. If you want send me an email to firstname.lastname@example.org where I can forward you the material directly.
David Poluck 3/23/2014 9:25:59 AM Report
Bobby, I tried the link..this is what came up!
A potentially dangerous Request.Path value was detected from the client (:).
Bobby Nerves 3/23/2014 9:55:51 AM Report
David, the first link is the AMO Association of Municipalities of Ontario and the second is MMA&H.
Ideally you would like to have an unbiased survey, but that's your taste.
A regional government can save money in the short term and generate a liability for the future that will never be covered for the contingencies fund.
Unfortunately the federales are refusing a review of Pensions and that's a liability right now and for the future as we know that the funds are not there anymore and it's time for the pensioners with golden umbrellas to understand that they'll have to pitch in if they expect to keep the benefit packages as they are now.
Wicket 3/23/2014 10:12:13 AM Report
Personally, I think that the average wage (not necessarily in the Soo) is about $80,000 and that in the government sector, in some instances, people make just above $100,000. Perhaps the list made available to the public should change from $100,000 to $150,000. Based on cost of living and prices of houses in Southern Ontario, and two car families, I have to believe that the average household income is at least $200,000. So, if that is the case, what types of jobs do they have. Obviously, to me, not ones that are available in the Soo.
People in the Soo complain about the lower wages being paid, but are not willing to relocate to change their potential income in exchange for a rat-race, concrete jungle life style. So, quit complaining, make do and enjoy the privilege of living in the Soo (or area). I, personally, would not give my life away for a higher wage to live elsewhere.
mallet 3/23/2014 10:25:25 AM Report
Remember the circle... One mans pay increase is another mans price/tax increase... always has, always will be the way. Many ways have been tried but that is the way it always ends up. Wage and price increases have been frozen, but that only works for a while, and then the increases forced by factors outside of governments influences comes into play. My own story in Canada is easy to follow, forty years ago when I first started working in this country I made $7 an hour, thirty years later I was making $30 an hour, but was no better off. I could fill two shopping carts with groceries for two weeks for around $100. at Safeway, Today that $100 would not fill one of the same things. When I first came here gasoline was 59.9 cents a gallon now it is $1.34 a litre, and then I look at the CEO's of the big banks and wonder how does one spend all those wages/salary??
David Poluck 3/23/2014 11:00:32 AM Report
From web site http://www.sault-canada.com/en/aboutus/resources/SSMStatsAndFacts2012.pdf
Page 11 of 19
Persons 15 years and over with earnings (counts)
Median earnings – Persons 15
years and over ($)23,649
Persons 15 years and over with earnings who worked full year, full time (counts)
Median earnings – Persons 15 years and over who worked full year, full time ($)44,748
Source: Statistics Canada 2006 (n
ew release date to be advised)
Grump 3/23/2014 12:58:24 PM Report
You all have points of view, mine is simply that I believe the article said there were 142 in the City's sunshine club and there is no freeze on their wages that I have heard of. I believe that is a tad excessive. I'm not suggesting we go back to it but at one time the Steelworkers made more than teachers, police men and women and most city and federal and provincial employees. I know the federal liability on pensions is staggering and unfunded and likely the provincial and city liabilities aren't much better. These large wage and benefit packages on the public dime might be better off reined in a bit now than seeing a large number of retirees without a pension. They may get another P.M. some day like Harper who won't shed any tears about his employees loosing their pensions.
Javaman 3/23/2014 1:19:31 PM Report
There are quite a few people who feel David O should be spared and be re-elected. I do not buy that notion. As a rep of this city he supported everything McGuilty and LOSERWYNNE put forth. He cannot sneak out of the mess his party created. He must be replaced and shown the door. We do not need a "nice guy" but rather one that has a backbone and is willing to stand up to party politics that are obviously wrong.
steelworker 3/23/2014 1:38:35 PM Report
C'mon and give David O. a break. He was on t.v. the other night talking about bears or something.
Just Curious 3/23/2014 2:51:56 PM Report
Having a bit of trouble trying to figure out why Harper is being so tough on Putin? He has already bitched him out a couple of times and now he's gonna do it again at the G-7 conference. Does he not realize we have absolutely no control over what Putin decides to do? He can do us way more damage than Harper can ever do to him. I personally think it's time Steve shut his damn big mouth and comes home to look after his own problems, we have enough here. Crimea wants to join Russia, voted too, end of story... Not our problem..
Javaman 3/23/2014 2:56:11 PM Report
It is bad enough that Harper is traversing the globe but does he have bring millions of our dollars with him??We have plenty of uses for that money right here at home. Methinks he is after the Ukrainian voters in Canada,
shakespeare 3/23/2014 3:17:42 PM Report
Nice see some calm discussion going on today. Grump and mallet: some well-informed, thoughtful and wise (without the heimer) points. They must be wise as I agree with just about everything you said!! Heh!
Javaman 3/23/2014 3:21:15 PM Report
FLy must have been hit with the swatter.
Hunter101 3/23/2014 3:55:30 PM Report
Wynner is ready for anything but a loss, which is what she may be in for.
I wouldn't put it past the morons in Ontario to vote Liberal again even after what Dalton McDolty and Wynner have done to destroy the province. What can I say? Ontario breeds losers.
That being said, nothing special with NDP or Conservative either (but I'll take either of them over the dum-dum parade we have now).
irishfey 3/23/2014 4:43:24 PM Report
Now they plan to hit us with the HST. along with the Gas raise???? Fe**** crooks, all of them... and i"m voting NDP!!! I was told before that giving the NDP a vote, it would just go to the other idiot crooks as the NDP would never get in anyway. Too many folks believe this, but it"s time to give them our votes and not be a coward about it. At least they work for the little guy!... I"m selling and packing up to go live in the bush in a little shack and bring me woodstove with me. Time to " screw" the Government and the Insurance companys!.. I think the Mennonites have the right idea!!! And i"ll grow me own "pot" as it says in the Bible that God planted all the herbs and plants for our healing! ,lol
mallet 3/23/2014 5:16:15 PM Report
Just what part of the world do you live in... they have been hitting us in Ontario with Harmonized Sales Tax for years now, Mr Mcguinty took the 4 and a half billion that was offered to combine the PST and GST into the HST. Whoa gal, you gotta get out more!!!
lookaround 3/23/2014 5:22:58 PM Report
Wyhner Who is that? I mean honestly grow up,
theprotector 3/23/2014 5:41:49 PM Report
wicket dont be so stupid. Other than for each city (which determins city employee wages) provincial and federal employees are paid the same whether in Toronto or Timmins. Average federal public sector wage for non management employees is 53,000. per year with a medical benefit package that costs about 300 a month. do the math, look up some fact or simply keep your mouth shut.
steelworker 3/23/2014 5:50:42 PM Report
...send in the trolls.
irishfey 3/23/2014 6:13:08 PM Report
Mallet... well it said that we would have to pay an extra 13% over the HST...? Did i read wrong?? You go read please and explain,,, and no.. i don"t get out much ,lol.. Told you that before, maby now you will believe me :).... And I'm still wanting to go back to the bush. Maby then i will go out more.. lol.. don"t like being around folk too much, worked with them all me life , like the animals better :)
irishfey 3/23/2014 6:22:53 PM Report
And yes, i did know about the HST... I"m not a total idiot!,lol....
shakespeare 3/23/2014 6:29:02 PM Report
tp: Wicket, whom I've met several times, is a very nice woman with lots of community spirit and who happens (in spite of this winter) to be positive about our community. Whether her figures are right or wrong, does she deserve the bile that you spew towards her? If anyone is wrong in your view are they "stupid" and should keep their "mouth shut"?
I think you owe Wicket an apology. Given what you say to people on this site, I don't know how you can look at yourself in the mirror. You appear to me a sad human being!
Grump 3/23/2014 6:37:28 PM Report
Just surfaced from book work. The Protector ,Shakespeare is correct, Wicket is a very nice lady and you do owe her an apology.
shakespeare 3/23/2014 6:43:42 PM Report
While I'm at it (not being partisan and being true to my feelings), I believe that fly and particularly Bobby owe rw an apology.
mallet 3/23/2014 7:07:46 PM Report
As I read that, Union gas is going for a 20% increase and you will pay the 13%HST on that 20% as you are already paying HST on your normal (before increase) bill anyway... as it explains further down if they get a $1. increase the amount you will pay is $1.13. Just another way of confusing people to make a point, or political points, which ever way you want to look at it... As for voting, instead of the parties, how about an Independent, who does not have to toe party lines, just has to vote what they think is best for their riding...
Wicket 3/23/2014 7:12:12 PM Report
Thanks Shakes and Grump, fortunately, since this site started, I have had to grow a temporary hard shell that I don for certain posters. Appreciate your support - it helps to temper the bad taste left in the mouth by others.
Mostly, I consider the source and their posts to other people.
I hope Fly is OK, he got attacked the other day and below the belt - not only not nice, not necessary.
I am not sure that I even said I was talking only about government employees, don't think I did. And I know very well what wages are in different sectors.
flyhawk25 3/23/2014 7:16:36 PM Report
shakes...I respect your opinion.
So explain to me why I owe rw an apology.
I don't especially like to revisit old battles but I will.
I await your reply.
shakespeare 3/23/2014 7:21:59 PM Report
fly: it appeared to me that a couple of days ago rw was taking your side in a tp piece of insult and as a response you attacked rw's academic credentials. That is why, if you look back, I questioned whether a post had been cut. Apparently it had not. Not that I agree that often with rw, but I think he got a bum rap from you and a below the belt attack from BN.
flyhawk25 3/23/2014 7:22:58 PM Report
Thank you Wicket. That was my interpretation as well.
This site is prone to a certain level of silliness and mean-spirited comments.
I am proudly often silly - especially with SQ. But if I am mean - spirited I would be upset with myself.
However, as I pointed out to Shakes, if I was I have no problem apologizing.
Life is short.
Hunter101 3/23/2014 7:26:05 PM Report
Libs oppose the idea of NG bills... really?
Hunter101 3/23/2014 7:26:27 PM Report
I guess we aren't paying enough for gas already!
flyhawk25 3/23/2014 7:33:27 PM Report
shake...I probably did question his academic credentials.But I never attacked his integrity in what he does for a living.
What I got in return I thought was uncalled for.
I don't want to belabor the point especially with him not around to defend himself.
In fact I'd welcome a chance to clear the air over lunch with the three of us.
I don't know how to be any more open than that.
shakespeare 3/23/2014 7:40:41 PM Report
right wing 3/20/2014 4:15:54 PM Report
Nice sidestepping the point as I knew you would.
What's the matter...afraid to answer the real hard questions.
right wing 3/20/2014 4:17:42 PM Report
...oh and flyhawk, glad to see that you have experienced the idiots far reaching definition of racism.
His first post had nothing to do with the issue at hand. The second was in support of you and sympathising with the attack by the sick tp. Look at your next response.
shakespeare 3/23/2014 8:03:18 PM Report
"But I never attacked his integrity in what he does for a living."
I'm calling you on this, too, fly!
"Go unplug a toilet you clown."
I stayed away from sootoday while I was in Kauai, for the most part. I've been back a week and see the same negativity and partisan squabbling, but a more personal, malicious attacking strategy than even before.
Time to bow out!
statusquo 3/23/2014 8:08:04 PM Report
There seems to be a heightened level of "bitchiness" in here lately.
How can you blame anyone with the winter we've been having?
Some comments however, are outrageously stupid by certain posters and repetitive.
It's lefty, righty ad nauseam and any differing opinion is attacked without an attempt at researching the facts.
"Hunter" says that he learned more from his plumber than from any teacher he has ever had. What can you possibly say to that?
"Bounder" was convinced that MOPAR stands for Manufacturer Original Parts and thinks he is qualified on parts sourcing.
"Wisenheimer" comes in here and blabbers about stock picks and thinks that if we all invested in the stock marked we would all be happy campers and yet he is attuned to price fluctuations on rotisserie chicken at Walmart from all places and seeks advice on Hotel accommodations when vacationing in Hawaii.
"Steelworker" is trying hard to be witty but his banal personality keeps on percolating to the surface.
We tend to forget, me included, that behind the online façade is a real person .
Folks that know me personally know that I talk like I do in here in real life, with some tweaks and decorum of course as the situation might present itself.
Some posters have left the Blue Room as they'd had enough, but I think they took the shenanigans that go on in here day in and day out far too seriously
and allowed some comments to get under their skin.
There are far more important things in life than loosing sleep over comments made on a web blog.
I personally enjoy the banter and name calling...to a point. It keeps you on your toes.
If you want hugs and kisses and Nutella "sandmiches" there is always the red room . But it ain't for me.
And, I may be harsh and disrespectful at times but I would NEVER ever disclose personal information that was given to me with the understanding that it should remain private.
So, if I offended anyone, I apologise and I admit that my hobby is being an idiot.
Here, use that next time I call you out on something ! You're welcome.
Bobby Nerves 3/23/2014 8:15:23 PM Report
Wicket, you not only were right with the numbers, but also with the wish list.
In other cities where people earn real money for the job and spent the money earned within the community, the sunshine list is growing faster than expected and the reason is in many cases over time and how low the limit has been set, which remains without change since Mr. Harris was the Premier of Ontario.
Many are suggesting that the minimum to be in the sunshine list be updated to 150 thousand dollars.
Further, I was receiving a health benefits package in 2004 of $ 4800 and we had to introduce few changes in the benefits package in order to keep the cost within reasonable parameters.
In TO there are two green hornets in the sunshine list, and green hornets there are the brothers of the guys going around the parking lots here chasing their mother in law.
I was gonna make the comment this morning but, how can I convince the person in charge of seting the government salaries.
Hunter101 3/23/2014 8:34:29 PM Report
stats, a prime example of an exaggeration.
If you/anyone else truly believe that plumbers taught me more than my teachers/professors you need to sit back and think a second.
Come on people. You keep proving my point.
statusquo 3/23/2014 8:43:41 PM Report
I am going to start a thread on "fun facts".
I will call it the "Dr Quo Interesting Hour", for kids young and old.
Now then, lets start...shall we?
Tell me children, who do you think is the most dangerous thing in Africa other than AIDS and famine?
The Black Mamba?
The Nile Crocodile?
No...None of the above...it's the Hippo!
The hippo is responsible for more human deaths than any other animal. Male Hippos can run at speeds of 35 km/hr .
What animal is not afraid of the Hippo?
It's the Honey Badger!
Till next time.
Hunter101 3/23/2014 9:06:17 PM Report
On a neat side note, if you ever want to listen to how boring the Sault Set. Marie, MI police are, there are plenty of police scanner apps for iPhone or Android.
Now, If only there was a way to get the Sault Canada scanner.
statusquo 3/23/2014 9:07:05 PM Report
Get with the program....
"If you/anyone else truly believe that plumbers taught me more than my teachers/professors you need to sit back and think a second."
I did and you, not me said that exact same thing. I know you didn't mean it the way it came out but hey, you're dealing with Hyenas in here...any weak point and we descend upon you like Oprah on Bavarian Eclairs.
Now , lighten up and roll with the punches.
Did you watch the honey badger video I posted? Pretty bad ass. You as a hunter should know, these gaffers are genetically related to Wolverines. You don't want to mess with them.
statusquo 3/23/2014 9:12:04 PM Report
hey...that is a topic for my "Fun hour".
You want to be my co-host?
Sault Michigan Police beat?
as in....Ray-Bob assaulted his common law wife/ sister and locker her out of the rented trailer cause she ate all the Doritoes?
flyhawk25 3/23/2014 9:18:48 PM Report
Hunter101 3/23/2014 9:18:48 PM Report
stats, you'd be lucky to even hear that. It's nothing but clear traffic stops.
statusquo 3/23/2014 9:31:44 PM Report
Way back in the eighties I was stopped on I 75 just before the Mackinaw Bridge near St Ignace, I was driving a Firebird with the rare 403 (6.6lt) Olds engine.
I was driving a girl back home to Mackinaw city at 2 a.m.....I was going a tad too fast.
The troopers pulled me over and I got out of the car (foolishly) and they drew their guns! I almost soiled myself!
After I explained my situation they let me go. Five minutes after that as I continued my journey, the girl pulled out a joint from her purse and asked me if I needed to "calm my nerves"......I soiled myself again!
BIG BROTHER 3/23/2014 9:46:28 PM Report
Ya gotta stay close to the back-house when you're eating Walmart rotisserie chicken, That stuff goes through the system quicker than a Firebird with a 6.6 ltr. Olds engine. Guess you never got lucky that night.
statusquo 3/23/2014 9:51:56 PM Report
BB, not that night for sure. Thinking of the consequences if they had searched my car I turned into a tenor, Flacido Domingo!
But she let me stay the night.
I slept in the garage! Shaking and sucking my thumb!
BIG BROTHER 3/23/2014 10:04:43 PM Report
Looks like things are getting a little testy in here.
Fly, I thought you were a little rough on rw also. He can take lefts all day, but you connected with a surprising right and sent him reeling. Seriously though, you did sound like you were having a bad day. Familiarity breeds contempt.
He's not above reproach though. There was an insinuation that he was informed about your teaching abilities. Teachers are the easiest targets for the bar room critics. I wanted to jump in then, but thought better. I don`t want to make you feel too old, but I've already told you the importance in my life, of a field trip to Stratford On. with you and another teacher as chaperons. It was eye-opening to see Shakespeare live theater in the round. Been back 2 times as an adult. First time I`d ever seen a fart light up!! How high brow is that!!! And your basketball coaching skills were second to none. I will stop now, as I'm getting embarrassed.
But, I will say, I had great teachers at trade school also. And quite a few at University. Like SQ stated, I `lernt sumpin` even from the ones I didn`t like.
BIG BROTHER 3/23/2014 10:07:46 PM Report
SQ, I have a few similar stories, but since my anonymity is `blown` on this site, I better let sleeping dogs lie Suffice to say, even though the statute of limitations has passed, some things are best left in the scrap pile of mis-spent youth.
Wicket 3/23/2014 10:49:00 PM Report
Thanks Big Brother for commenting on the aspects of the discussion towards Fly... it is one thing to slam each other, be sarcastic or nasty, but to comment on his integrity and ability as a teacher by mentioning that others had said.... blah, blah, blah (gossip, basically) got my dander up and in spite of what Fly had said, I thought this was just dirty pool.