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View Room Comments for Tuesday, Dec. 10 2013

Tuesday, December 10, 2013   by: The View RoomWelcome to the SooToday.com View Room. This editorial feature is for you to post comments. To comment on a specific news story please post your comment directly under the news story.
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Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. Keep discussions civil and on topic. Refrain from obscenity and don't post anything that your grandmother would be ashamed to read. Those who do not abide by these guidelines will have their membership revoked without notice. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Mark Brown 12/10/2013 2:59:15 AM Report

Hi VRoomers,

Mayor Amaroso is inviting all Sault citizens to welcome home our Curling Olympians, Ryan Harnden, E.J. Harnden, Ryan Fry, Brad Jacobs, Caleb Flaxey and coach Tom Coulterman at the airport at 6:30 TONIGHT, and also to create a parade route lining the streets stretching from the Soo Curlers Association on Anita Blvd. back west along Northern Avenue towards North Street.

Congratulations gentlemen, you made us proud again!!!

We'll see you tonight :)

ALSO

PUC PROTEST: Bring Back Our Safe Sweet Drinking Water

Wednesday, December 11, 2013 at 4:30 pm in the New PUC Palace on Second Line.

All Sault citizens interested in getting the PUC Board of Directors to stop bombarding our safe, sweet Lake Superior water with chlorine are asked to meet inside the entrance of the new PUC Palace on Second Line this Wednesday December 11th at 4:30 pm.

We will be attending the PUC Board Meeting to stand with the PUC customers who still have brown, stinky, foul tasting water coming out of their taps, and who are being bullied by the PUC who have essentially been saying, "Give us your water money, shut up, and deal with it."

http://www.sootoday.com/content/events/event_details.asp?e=76200&u=&org=

Enough is enough. Bring all your friends.

Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown
CitizensFirst@shaw.ca
Grump 12/10/2013 6:44:03 AM Report

Good morning everyone, still a bit cool out there. We had our executive Christmas dinner at Sun Kwong last evening. We generally move around and had it there two years ago and most of the board wanted it there again this year. It was certainly a great feed with enough food to stuff everyone. Have to run, have Physio this morning so go early and get it over with. Have a great day everyone.
David Poluck 12/10/2013 7:15:36 AM Report

Mark,
Good to see you will be working the part of the agreement established to attend a board meeting of PUC inc but I just have to ask...why all the cheap shots at the PUC in the post?


David Poluck 12/10/2013 7:30:27 AM Report

Are you presetting the tone of the meeting to be closed fists instead of open hands?
Just wondering.
Zing 12/10/2013 7:32:43 AM Report

Mr. Brown

I get that you are dissatisfied with the brown water issues among other things however, some toning down of your rhetoric might make your efforts heard more clearly.
You have some good points to bring forward and could accomplish things easier with a softer approach. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
ROLAND_ROLLY 12/10/2013 7:47:33 AM Report

To the people who think that Mr. Brown is being heavy handed must have good water.

Those of us in the east end who have had to endure the constant escuses from the PUC are fed up.

I would like to have a business where you deliver an inferiour product then tell my owners that they need to spend more to try to make the product acceptable....where do I sign up for this type of business !
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 7:49:05 AM Report

MB...good that you are active on this issue but...
ask yourself what is the optimum you wish to achieve. What would you consider a failure?
What would be a compromise you could live with?
Now...how do you achieve this?
David Poluck 12/10/2013 7:57:26 AM Report

Diplomacy: The business of handling a porcupine without disturbing the quills.
theprotector 12/10/2013 7:57:29 AM Report

Does mark brown have issues with his water? The interview I heard last night gives the impression he does not. Therefore I would ask why does he feel the need to take up this cause? What is in it for you Mark? Why are you trying to draw attention to yourself? What is your overall plan here?
Mark Brown 12/10/2013 8:14:51 AM Report

Cheapshots? Try telling these people that:

----------------------------------------------------------------

" My name is ************ and I support the rising number of complainers in this city on the ongoing water problems, as I am one of those complainers.

After my son was born 3.5 years ago the PUC changed the water system over to the free chlorine system and that's when the problems started.

Before that time we could give my son a bath with out any problems. Then one night (after the change over) I took my son out of the bath and noticed that he had red blotchy spots all over his body. I asked my grandmother, a retired nurse with the Algoma health unit, to come over and look at them to see what was going on. She said that it looked like a chemical burn, but we hadn't done anything different.

Out at our camp at *************** the following weekend after his bath he didn't have any red spots. It dawned on me, it must be from the chlorine in the water at home. He has sensitive skin.

That week I installed a whole house filter system and that night after I installed it he was fine.

In an area like Sault Ste. Marie we shouldn't have to treat our water like Walkerton has too. We aren't on wells surrounded by farm land or have a failing water treatment system.

I've tested the water out at *************** [our camp] straight out of the lake and here in town out of my taps and it is sad to report the water out at *************** [our camp] is cleaner straight out of the lake then it is here in town out of my taps.

My complaint is that I shouldn't have to be paying out of my pocket for water filtration in my home when there was never a problem with our water treatment to begin with .

I would like to be reimbursed the $700 that I've put out for water filters and filter unit that I've installed and would like to see in black and white on my bills, a discount for the filters that I will be using in the future.

I am sick and tired of going into a restaurant and drinking pool water.

I really hope that this problem is resolved soon. we pay enough money over the year that there should not be any issues like this.

Thank you"

----------------------------------------------------------------

I guess the real question is why aren't you spreading the word About the meeting to get back our sweet Lake Superior water? I'm on your list David and haven't got an email yet.

Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown
CitizensFirst@shaw.ca

right wing 12/10/2013 8:23:05 AM Report

ROLLAND_ROLLY

I live in the East and monitor the water.
I have spoken to many others that live in the East end.
Yes there have been some instances of brown water but they always clear up within the day.
Much like the West end this will become less and less as the turbidity clears from the supply piping.
You along with some other make it sound like this is a constant issue.
How often is your water brown.
Daily, weekly, monthly?
Where in the East end do you live...approx. no need to give the exact street.
Wisenheimer 12/10/2013 8:26:36 AM Report

The only infrastructure that the PUC doesn't blame for their problems, is their new multi million dollar office building on the 2nd line. It's important to be warm and cozy in their $400.00 ergonomic chairs, when fielding complaints from the riff raff.
right wing 12/10/2013 8:35:34 AM Report

M.B.

I have to go but I will have a full detailed response to that letter later.
David Poluck 12/10/2013 8:43:47 AM Report

Mark, Sorry but what message?
That you are planning to pick a fight at the board meeting?
I and others here are trying to help by pointing out the message is being lost with the negative rhetoric.
Why would I or anyone pass that kind of message forward?
I disagree with the context but not the intent to participate.


theprotector 12/10/2013 8:57:39 AM Report

Mark??? You going to answer my questions?
T-rat 12/10/2013 9:34:15 AM Report

protector: your "questions" have absolutely no relevance to the issues of water quality. And who in hell appointed you grand inquisitor?
theprotector 12/10/2013 9:37:39 AM Report

simple question t-ratt. Given Mark's past "issues" they are valid questions.

I have every right to ask those questions just as you have every right to be stupid.
soowat 12/10/2013 9:42:10 AM Report

I just read the reader comments for a couple of article in the Toronto Sun.
Gotta say the people commenting on SOOTODAY are pretty polite compared to those folks, WOW! They are nasty
mallet 12/10/2013 10:53:36 AM Report


David P..

When I have issues with a supplier, and it is one with a monopoly, then I too would be ticked off, especially when the reasons are the same old BS. If the problem is the lines have sediment in them let the PUC take responsibility and flush their lines, not the customer. If the lines need back flushing then it is up to the PUC to do that work, not the customer, if the customer HAS to be connected to the PUC system, then the PUC better be putting out the product they are supposed to be providing. I hear lots of posters complaining about power outages, that last for a few minutes to a couple of hours, would you not complain bitterly if it was 19 hours without power? If I complain to a regulating authority, but my neighbour , who is also affected doesn't, does that make me a troublemaker, or will they too benefit if the problem is resolved. If Mark gets Teed of with the same old replies to complaints, whatever his agenda, he is trying to do something about a problem that affects quite a few people. The name for these people is "Activist" one just passed away and the world is mourning, should he have stayed quiet and done nothing??
theprotector 12/10/2013 11:01:35 AM Report

LOL, comparing mark brown's unmedicated approach to issues at the puc that dont affect him to mandela? Are you serious or simply pathetic!
Just Curious 12/10/2013 11:28:59 AM Report

Wow, Kellogs in London closing the plant after 90 yrs and putting 500 unionized employees on the street,plus all the non-union office staff.. That's gotta hurt.. I suppose now even our Corn Flakes will be made in China and shipped back to us...:).
bounder 12/10/2013 11:35:04 AM Report

Re: Cornflakes, probably make them here in the Soo , ship to Toronto and back again , just like the mail.
David Poluck 12/10/2013 11:37:56 AM Report

mallet,
I am not dissuading participation nor activism.

lookaround 12/10/2013 11:41:10 AM Report

NAFTA really is good for Canada and so will this Pacific thingy that Harper is touting. NOT
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 11:45:27 AM Report

mallet...I agree.
Activism takes many forms.Compare that to some who just sit, snipe and bitch.
Good for MB.
The PUC has a monopoly pure and simple.
Mark Brown 12/10/2013 11:50:09 AM Report

Hi all,

Thank you to the posters who have pointed out that the issue is the undrinkable water that so many people, especially in the east end, have had to put up with for over two years.

Real everyday, hardworking people like these people who emailed me last week:

-----------------------------

"hi mark; first of all I wanna thank you and yours for standing up to these "giants". I live at ***************. for me here I don't get the water discolouration too often; its more the smell. the chlorine or whatever it is it the water is brutal. you fill the sink up to do dishes and walk away and come back 5 minutes later and "boom" right between the eyes the smell hits ya. that's just walkin by. I take the dish rag and wipe the counter or the cutting board and put your hands near your face and the smell is brutal. I gotta go wash my hands with soap and water.makes ya think twice about cutting something on the board or placing a piece of bread on the counter to make a sandwich. I cant remember the last time I drank a glass of water from my tap. it sure would be nice to know how much the sales of bottle water have gone up in the sault. I wont even give my pet tap water. here we are trying to help the environment by cutting back on plastics and WHAT CHOICE TO WE HAVE. here there is just my wife and myself and 1 pet and I recycle a lot of plastic; I cant imagine a big family with a few pets. thanks for listening and good luck."

-----------------------------

The answer to your questions, theprotector, are: I get perfect water from the PUC right out of the tap, and I am helping to organize this because it is the right thing to do.

That's it.

Given my upbringing and my heritage it is wrong to stay silent, and stand idly by, when there are people who are being wronged.

Many of the east end residents are getting undrinkable water, and are either having to live with it, or pay extra money out of their own pocket to make it drinkable while I'm getting perfectly good water!?!

How is this fair?

I hope you will join us on Wednesday at 4:30 for the PUC Board Meeting to stand with your fellow Saultites to attempt to correct this injustice, theprotector, but I will understand if you don't.

Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown
CitizensFirst@shaw.ca



Jimssm 12/10/2013 12:09:05 PM Report

Corn Flakes trivia...

Does anyone know the reason Dr. John Harvey Kellogg invented Corn Flakes ?

The answer will surprise you....

David Poluck 12/10/2013 12:11:12 PM Report

I remember something about it being an accidental discovery!
T-rat 12/10/2013 12:15:01 PM Report

protector: I wasn't questioning your 'right' to ask questions but questioning your reasons for the questions, which insinuate that Mark has ulterior motives and is doing this for personal gain of some sort, and just because he personally doesn't get smelly, brown unpotable water when he turns on his taps.

And there's really no need to be insulting. When you do, it only reinforces the very base opinion that so many on this site already have of you.

Just Curious 12/10/2013 12:21:25 PM Report

Jimssm; just read up on it..LOL..There was a man who would definitely lose his licence in todays world.Always wondered why I never cared for corn flakes..Always liked Frosted Flakes, tho..
And Bounder, that was funny...:).
mallet 12/10/2013 12:21:31 PM Report


T Rat..

I looked up "protector" in the dictionary, it said "see Arsehole"...
bounder 12/10/2013 12:23:36 PM Report

RE: Cornflakes discovery , probably that one in the bush was worth two in the hand. Birds, you know.
T-rat 12/10/2013 12:47:53 PM Report

Mallet: must be that Condensed Oxford version. There's also reference to "Lord Protector of the Commonwealth", a title assumed by Oliver Cromwell but hardly befits our delusional resident protector.
theprotector 12/10/2013 1:17:32 PM Report

poor little babies, can dish it out but cant take it!

I could care less about what people think of me on this site, why would you ever think I would?

T-ratt you hit me with your usual moronic crap you get it right back as for mallet well see he is in the same category as right wing.

My questions were valid and he doesnt have to answer them no one is forcing him!
T-rat 12/10/2013 2:04:01 PM Report

Oh, please protector....show some mercy. How can we ever withstand the onslaught of such fearsome tirades!! We are painfully aware that you don't care what others think of you, on this site or anywhere else for that matter. That's evident. As to my "usual moronic crap", as you put it, it is called tit for tat. Hope that doesn't get you aroused. Please excuse Mallet for his little zinger at your expense. It is snowy and cold outside, and there's not much on TV. Having at you is more fun. And why are you picking on rw? He hasn't dissed you in days.

As to the validity of your questions of Mark about the PUC and water, and why he asks those questions, the answer would be much the same as the answer to the age-old question: Why did the bear shit in the woods? Because he can!!
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 2:13:25 PM Report

I noted with interest today that at the Mandela tribute President Obama made a point of greeting the president of Cuba and his wife.
While it will probably give Rush another reason to rail about Marxists and terrorists I see it as a good sign of the embodiment of Mandela's beliefs and hope for future improved relations between two countries.
Jimssm 12/10/2013 2:36:16 PM Report




...Now I know why I never see Corn Flakes advertised on porn sites....


mallet 12/10/2013 2:43:53 PM Report

T Rat..

Actually it is the "unabridged" version, it contains all those naughty words.. I was just filling in time until the soccer game comes on. Oh by the way don't forget the V S show tonight at 10pm....
shakespeare 12/10/2013 3:24:26 PM Report

I wouldn't know about that kind of thing, Jimssm!
BIG BROTHER 12/10/2013 3:27:57 PM Report

Fly,
Apparently John McCain compared Obama's handshake with Raul to Chamberlain's handshake with Hitler.

These guy's miss the point on about 5 different levels!! What a sad pathetic joke. You just had to wonder who would get on the 'Stupid Train' first. And it's McCain by a whisker.
Wild Turkey 12/10/2013 3:43:44 PM Report

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"Michael Corleone
shakespeare 12/10/2013 4:14:49 PM Report

BB: those who get in a snit over the handshake are obviously two-dimensional and are entirely missing the point of Mandela's legacy. A little depth perception would sure help a few of these folk.
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 4:54:44 PM Report

Shakes...well we don't have to look on the news to see that type of attitude.
I'm just surprised they haven't commented the number and attitude of the crowd as further proof that Mandela was not that popular.
Never mind that they wouldn't attend an outdoor event in the rain with politicians speaking for hours even if they gave away free fast food and beer.
mallet 12/10/2013 5:13:05 PM Report


Flyhawk..

There is a problem right there, Politicians saying what a great good guy their political opponent is, and the general public, knowing that they don't mean a thing they are saying, but they are saying it anyway to look good. I admire more, the people who did not like or agree with with him, who did not go, at least they were being honest, which is more than half the attendees can say. They just went because it's the "done thing".
BIG BROTHER 12/10/2013 5:21:40 PM Report

Mallet,
You could count on one hand the numbers of world leaders that weren't there.

Cheney doesn't count.
mallet 12/10/2013 5:29:14 PM Report

Big Brother...
Maybe, but how many were there out of a desire to honour the man, or how many were there to put in an appearance to look good? From what some posters have said on this page, that is all Harper went there for. Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. If as some have said that he was on terrorist watch list until quite recently, what do you think those leaders are there for??
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 5:39:53 PM Report

I'd prefer not to question the motives of any in attendance.I can't plumb the depths of their hearts. And yes they are politicians but they represent their people.
A certain faction will question all of their motives.We all know the type. Ignore them.
Most of us do it on here all the time.They are frustrated small minded people who revel in anonymity and a public forum.
BIG BROTHER 12/10/2013 5:40:33 PM Report

Harper is definitely one who was there for the wrong reasons. But that's his character.

Dubya kept him on the "list" because he said bad things about senior and junior. Remember the Iraq war. Who the terrorists are, is usually defined by the media.

Why are you so against Mandella? Thatcher??
Wisenheimer 12/10/2013 5:59:07 PM Report

Fly ... your attempts to keep the banter on a more civilized level is not working.
Although it does generate plenty of gist for Spellchecker's weekly list.
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 6:01:26 PM Report

I live in hope most days.
And the other days I just grind my teeth and self medicate...
shakespeare 12/10/2013 6:11:03 PM Report

I think that you may have just contributed to that "grist" list, Wisen.
I have heard that some will go to almost any lengths to not appear on Spelly's list.
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 6:23:27 PM Report

I know.
Sometimes it's difficult to just ignore that stuff.
mallet 12/10/2013 6:28:33 PM Report


Big Brother...

I am not against the man, I do not think I have ever said anything against Mr Mandela, he did for his people what many others had tried to do and failed, and without the widespread death and violence that generally preceeds change in the African Continent, and for that he was and should be lauded. Now did he have another side, yes, but there is now no need to expose that, for he can do no further harm to anyone, and the good he did outways the other side.
Now if you want to pick that apart, do so, but remember there were other chants there to at other leaders, so perhaps there were some who were not welcome!!
BIG BROTHER 12/10/2013 7:00:16 PM Report

Well there ya go Mallet. And for his efforts, numb skulls put or kept him on terrorist lists. Mostly for their own selfish reasons, while he sat in jail for taking a stand against total injustice being done to his people.

You may not like him or you may think he's great, but your negatives have been oozing out by the bucket load. I thought it would be appropriate to enlighten us (me) as to where these negatives are rooted in you. Am I missing something?...possibly.

flyhawk25 12/10/2013 7:42:06 PM Report

Sadly too many people want to see things in absolute terms.
But when a man spends 27 years in a cell and then forgives his enemies he has my attention.
Unfortunately the low intellect crowd wants the world to be simple.
It isn't. They are.
I happen to believe just because someone has a keyboard and an opinion they had better defend their position not just rearrange their prejudices.
lookaround 12/10/2013 8:05:48 PM Report

RUSH LIMBAUGH and the Tea Party do not speak for the majority. Since when, in a Democracy does a minority try to speak for the majority? Time for the people to rise against the conservative tide which has done nothing to improve the lives of ordinary middle class people.
shakespeare 12/10/2013 8:08:31 PM Report

fly: I think you should put a patent on that last sentence. It says so much!
lookaround 12/10/2013 8:08:50 PM Report

flyhawke25 they do not know that a man that fights for justice speaks for all mankind. Those that don't recognize that Mandela was a great man, have little to look upon as a hero.
shakespeare 12/10/2013 8:19:44 PM Report

Speaking of "saying so much" I cannot believe how "limp" Conrad Black has turned out to be. I have always enjoyed Black's writing and erudition, despite him being a felon. However, his sycophantic cajoling of Ford was pathetic. People seem to be steering clear of Ford on local blogs recently but how much longer is this absolute walking disaster going to be in our field of vision?
lookaround 12/10/2013 8:21:56 PM Report

"He makes me want to be a better man" Words that hold true for peace. The handshake was a poignant gesture and so what? It doesn't mean that all is forgiven.
flyhawk25 12/10/2013 8:56:43 PM Report

Shakes...thanks but it is not my original idea.Sadly I've forgotten the source but used it often in class. And in meetings with 'important' people...
Which explains why I never got to be one.
BIG BROTHER 12/10/2013 10:24:44 PM Report

Mallet,
I really don't mean to put you on the spot. I can't stand when someone on this site demands an answer from me or anyone and I don't mean to be doing that.

I've merely noted a negative tone to your posts on Mandella and I'm curious as to where they come from. Am I missing something? I'm open to possibilities, but from what I've read, he is human, therefore vulnerable to all that that means. Mistakes....admittedly, many. But he has touched so many with positive vibes after having survived so much negative crap. Most men would be beaten down, given the same circumstance.
Wisenheimer 12/10/2013 10:33:40 PM Report

Shaker,

"Gist" ... "The central idea, the essence".

mallet 12/11/2013 1:05:52 AM Report

Big Brother..

If you think I am negative about a person I have never met or had any contact with, then you must think that I have negative thoughts about everyone, and that is far from the truth. Like every well known and respected leader they all have something which is not brought to the forefront of the general knowledge of the general public. Mr Mandela was no different, are you aware that before he went to prison he was trained in Somalia in various terrorist activities. My activities in my younger days brought me into contact with a lot of information, some of which will not be released for a few more years. I, too can forgive, but I cannot forget, I think I made it clear, that I think he did a great job in South Africa, and I think most of the people of S A thought he was a great man. So what do you want me to say, that he was the greatest man who ever lived, but I do not think I can. If you want me to say he was a good man for his country I agree.

As for the political show of his memorial service, I am sorry, but that sort of thing leaves me cold, that was put on by politicians for politicians. Half the heads of state have not and will not give their people what he fought and suffered for his people in the way of human rights, and to see them there saying what a great man he was, IMHO belittles his memory..
right wing 12/11/2013 9:21:32 AM Report

Mallet

Good post.
I agree with you take 100%.
Mandela did good for South Africa but that does not take away the tarnish from his halo that he earned doing terrorist acts, acts which he admitted to.
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