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View Room Comments for Sunday, Dec. 8 2013

Sunday, December 08, 2013   by: The View RoomWelcome to the View Room. This editorial feature is for you to post comments. To comment on a specific news story please post your comment directly under the news story.
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Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of Keep discussions civil and on topic. Refrain from obscenity and don't post anything that your grandmother would be ashamed to read. Those who do not abide by these guidelines will have their membership revoked without notice. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Spellchecker 12/8/2013 6:01:26 AM Report

Shakey, shooting the messenger again, I see. You and statusquo have a penchant for that. Anyway, thanks for reading it if you actually did after discovering the source. That source will be back on future occasions, I'm sure. She's got a fine head on her shoulders according to this swamp dweller.
Grump 12/8/2013 6:31:57 AM Report

Good morning Spelly and everyone, still a tad cool this am. Spelly the gal may be bright but it certainly doesn't make her correct. Something that has served me well over the years, don't pay as much attention to what folks say, figure out why they are saying it. Hunter your last post last evening makes you the undisputed winner of being coarser than Steely and much lower class. Have a great day all.
Spellchecker 12/8/2013 6:46:03 AM Report

Thanks for the advice, Grump. You'll be happy to know I also learned that lesson long ago. It is evident every day on this site.
Spellchecker 12/8/2013 7:00:08 AM Report

"Let's not enter a discussion where there can be no solution."

Nelson Mandela
August 1995
flyhawk25 12/8/2013 8:01:52 AM Report

Good Sunday morning!
As we mark the anniversary of the bombing of Pearl Harbor it might be useful to think how a country like Japan reached a point where it saw war as a reasonable option.
As a 'war baby' I also wonder how Germany reached such a conclusion.
Then the question is - what patterns are we seeing repeated in the world today?
As a species have we learned anything?
Jimssm 12/8/2013 8:15:42 AM Report


We haven't learned our lesson.

No matter what a polititian or country or religion says or does....


It may sound cynical, but follow any human conflict backwards and someone was either powerful/rich and wanted to keep that power/riches or weak/poor and wanted to get power/riches.

Mark Brown 12/8/2013 8:31:09 AM Report

Good morning Grump, Spelly and fly,

Just thought I'd check in to see what is happening in the VRoom, and low and behold you three have peaked my interest :)

Grump and Spelly, why do you think I have been saying what I have been saying for these many months with the Brown Bag, and more recently with the undrinkable water?

Please advise.

And perhaps, fly, the Germans and the Japanese simply had leaders who captured their frustrations who channeled that frustration into action?

Germans - The Treaty of Versailles?

Japanese - "U.S. attempts to deter Japanese expansion into the Southwestern Pacific via the imposition of harsh economic sanctions, redeployment of the U.S. Fleet from southern California to Pearl Harbor, and the dispatch of B-17 long-range bombers to the Philippines all failed because the United States insisted that Japan evacuate both Indochina and China as the price for a restoration of U.S. trade. The United States demanded, in effect, that Japan abandon its empire, and by extension its aspiration to become a great power, and submit to the economic dominion of the United States--something no self-respecting Japanese leader could accept.

The Japanese-American road to the Pacific War in 1941 yields several enduring lessons of particular relevance for today's national security decisionmakers:

1. Fear and honor, "rational" or not, can motivate as much as interest.

2. There is no substitute for knowledge of a potential adversary's history and culture"?

( )

Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown
Spellchecker 12/8/2013 8:35:54 AM Report

Indirectly it is about the money. It was then, and is now, about resources. I believe Hitler called it lebensraum. When resources become scarce war becomes the solution. Our easy time of it is soon to be over.
old-cat33 12/8/2013 8:38:42 AM Report

We are still being bombed today by Japan with everything from laptops to cars,4-wheelers and any other electronic equipment.
old-cat33 12/8/2013 8:43:07 AM Report

Hey guys what do you think?
There is a damn hawk that thinks my bird feeding station is his private smorgasborg table!
This guy is a fair size chap too.It's not a little Goss Hawk.
Spellchecker 12/8/2013 8:44:59 AM Report

Have you also noticed that they are expanding their military with the blessing of the west while we are reducing ours? We want them and Europe to take more responsibility for their own protection with no regard for recent history.
Wild Turkey 12/8/2013 8:57:05 AM Report

Germany lost all of it's overseas territory as a result of the agreement ending W.W. One.They held a good chunk of East Africa, South-West Africa, The Camerouns, Islands in the Pacific,And about One Quarter of New Guinea.They also lost some pieces of the beloved Fatherland.They Knew the rest of the world was sick of war and thought that by invading the lands to the East, they could gain some needed resources.They didn't figure Britain would honour their defense pact with Poland.They took a page from the Japs,who waltzed into Manchuria while the rest of the world stood around doing nothing.
Now Fly, you asked us to think about why the Japs would want to drag America into the War.Mark,you had a good explanation, but was there another deeper reason?According to Pravda ,Pearl Harbour was staged by the Americans.A conspiracy akin to 911.Pravda is not necessarily a reliable source , but it sure got me thinking about it, as you suggested
Spellchecker 12/8/2013 9:00:44 AM Report

Good link, Mark. Read it folks. It was, as I said, about resources. China is after them now. Presently they are getting them economically but it won't stay that way.
statusquo 12/8/2013 9:09:18 AM Report

old cat,

Japanese products are generally of higher quality than the equivalent North American product.

The reasons for this fact are many, but one that stands out is that after WW2 they adopted a business strategy designed by an American . W.Edwards Deming.
He taught that by implementing appropriate principles of management, organizations can increase quality and at the same time reduce costs by minimizing waste, rework, staff attrition and litigation and thus increase customer loyalty.

The secret is to strive for continual improvement and re-think the manufacturing process as an interconnected system, not as random bits and pieces.

The Japanese car manufacturers, specifically Toyota, implemented his philosophy and over time, starting in the fifties and sixties more and more Japanese industries followed suit.
The focus shifted from the lowest possible cost to the highest possible quality.
Over time , quality continued to improve while costs shrunk and profits rose.
The North American counterparts focused primarily on cost reduction and today we have fewer and fewer products made in North America that are comparable quality wise within the same price range.
To get a quality product, be it a car or any other appliance with Japanese quality standards one must shop in Europe but at a much higher price.

Focusing primarily on cost/price will over time reduce quality .

bounder 12/8/2013 9:16:58 AM Report

The site for Straw man arguments, here and now everyday, yikes.
Wisenheimer 12/8/2013 9:41:43 AM Report

No election in Ontario anytime soon. With PUC rates increased again on Nov. 1st, your next few bills will knock your socks off!
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Zing 12/8/2013 10:08:55 AM Report


Why come to this site at all then?
Grump 12/8/2013 10:14:10 AM Report

Zing because he is bored posting the same inane B.S. everyday on the other site.
shakespeare 12/8/2013 10:24:19 AM Report

Spelly: not exactly shooting the messenger, but that "lady" is not really highly regarded by many. She's still a defender of the notorious Wakefield and the MMR vaccine fiasco. She gets on a hobbyhorse and won't get off. It's a shame as she was given a promising start with The Guardian, but left and fell off the straight and narrow into the swamp soon thereafter.

Here's one for you, mallet, well actually everybody. I don't disagree with this one, but it's worrying nonetheless.
bounder 12/8/2013 10:37:18 AM Report

ZING exactly.
statusquo 12/8/2013 10:51:17 AM Report


There is a rather dark movie about the social fragmentation going on in the good ole' U.K.
Made in 2006 but it takes place in the early eighties , during or shortly after the Falkland war.
It's called "This Is England"'s not a "feel good" movie but worth watching.
I am contemplating watching "Kes" again as it is on YouTube, but I am not sure if I want to get depressed on a Sunday.
old-cat33 12/8/2013 10:52:26 AM Report

Status:Well thanks for that info ,it was interesting to read.
When I was working one of the shut downs (blast furnace) in the old Agony Steel Plant the young University kids (summer students) would tell me stuff like that....LOL.

Zing 12/8/2013 11:38:26 AM Report

"OTTAWA - At least two more key Conservatives got gold-embossed business cards, contrary to long-standing government rules against fancy stationery.

Tony Clement was given his gold cards shortly after being promoted to Treasury Board president in the May 2011 cabinet shuffle, following the election of a Conservative majority."

It's a never ending, always spending federal government which breaks all the rules, all the time.

Gold leaf embossed cards...c'mon eh?
redranger 12/8/2013 11:47:42 AM Report

Your comments re quality were right on .
mallet 12/8/2013 12:01:07 PM Report


Umm Errr, It is difficult not to be called racist or other descriptions when talking immigration. Under the E U rules there is unrestricted movement amoung the countries in the Union and this has led to, for want of a better word, ghettos of singular ethnic make up. This was starting to be a problem 40/50 years ago in places like Birmingham, Bradford, and certain areas of London. No-one took too much notice until there was a degree of civil unrest and then it became a racial problem and nothing was done. Along comes the E U and the problem becomes greater but now there is no immigration restrictions and one cannot deport, send back, anyone who reaches your shores. World opinion and human decency means you save a persons life if their means of transport is failing and their lives are in danger. Malta, Italy and Greece have become the entry points for refugees of all decriptions, without any knowledge of their backgrounds, Criminal, political, religious or terrorist ideals, which normal immigration rules take into account. A lot of "refugees" make for the U K as their welfare system is better than many of the other Union members, and herein lies the problem for the U K. Nationlistic parties are getting more and more support and I think we all know where this ends up. I am aware that some people will say I am racist when I say that whatever country you immigrate to, you leave the baggage of the country you left, behind you and adopt the country you have come to, unfortunately that does not happen for a few generations in many cases and causes frictions...
flyhawk25 12/8/2013 12:15:47 PM Report

mallet...exactly and unfortunately correct.
I've always said - the kids will straighten it out. It is an organic process.
mallet 12/8/2013 12:33:19 PM Report


History is a nasty, bad word with Politicians, it means you cannot/should not repeat the actions you know have been unrealistic, but sound good if repeated enough times. The same goes for Geography, it would be nice for people to know where they are sending troops, when asked for help. Same as for your favourite subject, would it not be reasonable for people to know a little about religions of the world and what they stand for. (sorry Status).
flyhawk25 12/8/2013 1:12:48 PM Report

mallet...sadly more wars are waged over greed than religion. But the result is the same.
It took Mandela 27 years in a cell to figure out the there is a better way.
That's why I am a believer in contemplative life and balance.
I don't often achieve it but keep trying.
I am certain that violence proves only who survived and can write history.
If I see one more sporting event wrapped in a flag with a fly-by and calling on God to bless the warriors I'll puke.
soowat 12/8/2013 1:20:14 PM Report

I've long held the opinion that there would be no war if the leader(s) advocating the war had to lead the charge. For example, would the U.S have gone to Iraq if Cheney and Bush had been given a rifle and told to go first? How about if somebody had asked Bin Laden on which of the two planes that hit the WTC he was going to be seated?
mallet 12/8/2013 2:06:25 PM Report


I would be the first to agree that one should not go to war or fight unless threatened or attacked, however there are treaties that govern wether one should or should not intervene. A quick history view, the first world war, some arch duke, who no-one liked is shot in slovakia, and this is used as the pretense to go to war, the second world war is over some radio station that is supposedly attacked by the Poles and again defence treaties come into play. Who decides on these treaties, politicians, who see a need for something, wether it be trade or area influence, but generally because there is money in it for their country and therefore in the long run themselves. At the end of WW1 Germany was stripped bare, hence the resentment and ultimately a reason for WW2, where again they were stipped bare but thanks to the USofA the Marshall plan did not give them the same degree of resentment and have now used their new found talent and work ethic to become the dominant force in Europe. Defense treaties and Areas of Influence have become the basis for Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, and to some extent Syria, all led of course by the U N and the good ole USofA. We will forget about the other little incidents like Grenada, Panama, Somalia, and a few other countries in South America, the list goes on and on, but don't forget the UK's forage into the Falklands.
The basic fact is very simple really, at any one time between 15 and 25 per cent of the working public is concerned with the Military workings, wether it be bullets or aircraft carriers, and no government can afford to have that number and the spin offs out of work at any one time. The other most unmentionable fact is that there are too many people on this planet for peace to be a reality!!!
steelworker 12/8/2013 2:23:41 PM Report

When you have too many rats in a cage the result is mayhem.
Wild Turkey 12/8/2013 2:27:05 PM Report

The "problem" in the Falklands is because there is a good possabilty(sp?)that there is oil/natural gas offshore .The first "war" was "just a matter of marching" or so the corrupt Argentine Generals thought.Why would bankrupt Britain go to war over some desolate islands inhabited by shepherds and displaced Acadians?Wrong Senor-it was a matter of British Empire Pride.Now this time it's starting up again,but it's going to be VERY interesting, because after all, the Pope is from Where?
mallet 12/8/2013 2:45:48 PM Report

Wild Turkey..

Ah but you forget the main religion of England is C of E, not Catholic!!
Zing 12/8/2013 2:50:46 PM Report

Wild Turkey

I don't think the Japanese like to be called, "Japs". I could be wrong.
mallet 12/8/2013 3:03:20 PM Report


I know I shouldn't but what the heck.. Every December 7th the Americans say . "there's a nip in the air this morning"...
statusquo 12/8/2013 4:28:01 PM Report

Your comments re quality were right on .|"

Thank you redranger.

But now you make it difficult for me to be nasty.

Just kidding.

Just so you know, things that grind my gears....

1. Overcooked pasta
2. Bible quotes(unless I ask for them...I seldom do)
3. Chicken McNuggets
4. Celine Dion
5. Giggling during "horizontal pleasures" (it has happened, but I won't divulge the reason)
6. Munching sounds during "Hamlet"
7. The pronunciation of "risotto" with too much emphasis on the first "o" and not enough on the double "t".
8. Guys that call me "chum". "Chum" is putrid fish guts ....something you pour into the sea to attract sharks.
10. ....drum roll......"Saskatchewan"...the word...not the province.
nanag 12/8/2013 5:41:07 PM Report


Is this list in order of worst to last?
I would have thought Walmart would have been closer to top of your list.. and.. you did not have women drivers on your list at all.. does that mean you think differently than Grump as far as women drivers are concerned.. just curious
flyhawk25 12/8/2013 5:41:22 PM Report

I have to take a break from the curling final - my old nerves won't take the stress.
nanag 12/8/2013 5:51:41 PM Report

Brad Jacobs ROCKS
statusquo 12/8/2013 5:52:13 PM Report


Driving ability has nothing to do with gender....

You either suck at it or you don't!
Grump 12/8/2013 6:10:28 PM Report

nanag You will have to get over it. The women I was talking about are Younger career women rushing to work because they obviously didn't leave in time. The doing of hair, putting on makeup. talking on the phone or texting while driving like a mad women in and out of traffic. They are accidents going somewhere to happen. I should have specified what women of which I spoke so as to not tick you off.
Grump 12/8/2013 6:10:29 PM Report

nanag You will have to get over it. The women I was talking about are Younger career women rushing to work because they obviously didn't leave in time. The doing of hair, putting on makeup. talking on the phone or texting while driving like a mad women in and out of traffic. They are accidents going somewhere to happen. I should have specified what women of which I spoke so as to not tick you off.
Grump 12/8/2013 6:11:38 PM Report

Well Jacobs did it. Eight in a row with that crowd is one hell of a record.
shakespeare 12/8/2013 6:16:35 PM Report

Great job by Jacobs and team!!

Don't know much about curling, but thought that as they don't wear padding I'd give it a shot to watch it. Seems that Jacobs was two goals up after the first inning. In the second the other guy had a hammer (?) but Jacobs still got a strike and a spare, and he tried to break Morris' service. His thingie that he throws on the ice apparently was clocked at a record three MPH. When Morris tied it at three, I really thought that the second bowler should have got a two minute penalty for high brooming. The Scots really know how to invent a sport.

My apologies to all curlers.

It's a real feather in the cap for the Sault to have the Olympic-bound team. For a town known mostly for its hockey and cricket, we seem to have quite the curling heritage!

Great job, guys!
steelworker 12/8/2013 6:19:09 PM Report

When Jacobs birdied on the 7th end I knew it was a total balls-up for the other team.
redranger 12/8/2013 6:24:32 PM Report

See! I told you Brits that you don't know sports. You missed the touchdown in the 8th and the homerun on the Hail Mary pass in the 9th.
Canna D. Yenn 12/8/2013 6:31:07 PM Report

I like curling for a couple of reasons, 1) I was pretty good playing the sport, and more importantly, for me, 2) it's one of the few sports (bowling is another) in which, win or lose, my teammates and I were the ones who made it happen, not an errant call by some judge, a ref, an ump, or a linesman.

I also liked the sincere sportsmanship and camaraderie.

I now usually watch it with the sound off, though... because of the stupid yelling, and the equally stupid commentary. I usually provide my own stupid commentary to my wife, who is often beside me while we watch it.

Congratulations Team Jacobs... you are admiral ambassadors from the Sault, Canada, and the sport.
shakespeare 12/8/2013 6:34:42 PM Report

They are high ranking naval dignitaries, too?
Canna D. Yenn 12/8/2013 6:40:50 PM Report

Admirable remark, for sure... You must be a curler.
nanag 12/8/2013 6:43:24 PM Report


I don't need you telling me to "get over it". You spew crap and lump "younger career women" into a category you fabricated, and expect those of us who disagree to just suck it up as fact because YOU say so ??? I don't think so bucko. You need to get over yourself!
Hunter101 12/8/2013 7:00:33 PM Report

nanag, while I think Grump has very little to offer in the department of knowledge he is correct.

There are a lot of moron women drivers. Young women have the least know-how when it comes to driving motor vehicles. Instead of them driving the car, the car is driving them. It's sad. Some of them don't even know where their high beams are.

On top of that, there is the whole distracted driving thing. On the phone while driving, make-up, etc.

It has no place on the road and neither do they. They're a huge risk to others. Instead of RIDE programs they should have checks for these ditzes.
nanag 12/8/2013 7:20:48 PM Report

I sure hope you neanderthals aren't waiting for me to bow down in deference to your verbal garbage.. I am way too busy giving thanks that I was born a woman with the ability to see the errors in your faulty thinking.
Sam C 12/8/2013 7:41:46 PM Report

Hunter... as a Driving Instructor, I have taught an about an equal number of male and female students, and I must politely disagree with you... I see no real difference in driving ability between male and female.

Grump (and Hunter)... yes, some women DO put on makeup while behind the wheel, but do not for a moment think that men are blameless. I have watched men shaving and brushing their teeth while driving. And both sexes are running about equal in using their cell phones while behind the wheel -- and it is NOT just younger drivers.

Sam C 12/8/2013 7:46:32 PM Report

Shakey... I see that coming from south of Hadrian's wall has left you with a somewhat skewed perspective on one of the best sports, but I applaud you for recognizing the accomplishment of our local team.

Congrats Team Jacobs!
nanag 12/8/2013 7:55:30 PM Report

Sam C

thank you for equalizing the bad driver genders..(can I say equalizing???)
shakespeare 12/8/2013 8:07:00 PM Report

Here's how it happened. Sam, and I've been to Hadrian's ("boring"... my children's description) Wall a few times. The Scots came down with a few rocks in the winter and set up an ice rink just north of the wall. The Roman/English contingent would be invited to watch a curling tournament, and, when they fell asleep, the Scots would slaughter then, breach the wall and pillage for a while in Northumbria.
shakespeare 12/8/2013 8:10:40 PM Report

"slaughter them", not "then"
flyhawk25 12/8/2013 9:30:46 PM Report

I a was overwhelmed by Team Jabobs performance.
And yes - I did get weepy at the national anthem.
I cannot imagine the Olympics.
Hunter101 12/8/2013 9:32:03 PM Report

Sam C, that's probably because all that is taught in driving school is defensive driving.

No one knows how to take control of a vehicle anymore. Even young male drivers are starting to be nancys at the wheel.

It's sad, but if some of these drivers skidded around a corner or started sliding they wouldn't know what to do.

A lot of experienced drivers I know "tempted fate" so to speak, and that is how they learn their vehicles operating limits.

I am not condoning reckless maneuvers on public roads, but there are plenty of private roads outside the Sault which are great for hazardous driving skills.
redranger 12/8/2013 9:58:01 PM Report

What follows is a facebook post by Garnet Rogers (brother of the folk singer, Stan Rogers). He says it so much better than I ever could and I feel than many (not all) of you will enjoy reading it.

It's no surprise really, but disheartening nonetheless to watch all the usual suspects...the sad compulsive liars, the cynical opportunists, and the evil, treacherous bottom feeding suck fish whom we call leaders as they scramble madly and try to align themselves on the right side of history in the wake of Nelson Mandela's passing.
These are the same Gaderene Swine who so self righteously labelled him a "Marxist" (which he most assuredly was...and just what is wrong with Marxism by the way?) and a "Communist" and a "Terrorist" back when he was in prison.
No surprises here.
That grotesque white excrescence, that dangling suet filled polyp, that pale soft smiling deputy of his Dark Lord, our own Stephen Harper is now planning to attend the state our expense, and will no doubt mouth platitudes about bravery and truth, when as a young man, and as a shining light of the newly rising Christian Right Conservatives he roundly condemned Mandela as a terrorist, and voted consistently against sanctions.
Others are rushing to somehow bask in Mandela's light.
Rick Santorum, who by now admittedly, is just a skid mark on the under pants of history, is comparing his fight against Obamacare with Mandela's struggle...conveniently forgetting (or more likely not knowing) that South Africa has health care.
Fuck him, he is, as someone said, "dumber than a bag of Sarah Palin's hair."
He and so many others don't matter...but Harper is supposed to be a leader, and a statesman, and he is neither.
He will tell you that his opinion has "evolved"...this from a man who doesn't believe in Evolution.
We have come to a sad pass where one can look at our Prime Minister and compare his stance with that of Dick Cheney and feel embarrassed at the lack of consistency and back bone.
Cheney at least, when asked about his calling Mandela a terrorist back in the day, looked up from his feast of damned souls, and with that familiar blood stained smirk said, "I haven't changed my mind."
I seem to have damned few white heroes...Stephen Lewis, Jimmy Carter, Tommy Douglas among the scant handful.
The rest are the truly brave, those who had the courage to speak out when the very act of speaking out could mean death....John Lewis, Rosa Parks, Dr. King, Gandhi ...and Nelson Mandela.
Mandela was a hard and dedicated and inconvenient man, who was deeply flawed as so many of his all too rare kind are.
But fear did not stop him.
Prison did not break him.
Time has not changed his message nor lessened his bravery, nor diminished the importance of his work and his life.
It galls me beyond bearing that the soft white men with their soft white hands will now stand in array and attempt to align themselves with his message and his legacy, and pat him on the head for being what they could never be.

Snobank 12/8/2013 10:15:22 PM Report

Bravo, redranger, bravo.
Hunter101 12/8/2013 10:30:43 PM Report

What's wrong with Marxism? Everything.

This guy screams left wing through his whole rant.
mallet 12/8/2013 10:48:48 PM Report

So Mr Red Ranger and Snobank, just who would you have represent Canada, or would you prefer the country snub the mans funeral?? As for Marxism, never really panned out did it, oh sure there are a few about who still admire its principals, like the person you quoted, but in the end it's just another rant about how bad and evil Harper is, but remember there are a few other "White People" on the list to go with the Prime Minister of Canada.
shakespeare 12/8/2013 11:10:11 PM Report

Saw Garnet, along with his brother Stan and band a few years after I was an immigrant and not long before Stan's death, in a small bar venue in London, Ont. I was blown away by their talent and absolute forthrightness.
Garnet has obviously not lost that and I'm sure that many who attend this week's ceremonies in South Africa will have to check their consciences at the door.
But that is the way of politics and leaders with very few exceptions. Garnet turns a neat phrase to the detriment of Harper (polyp is a good one) and others, and his passion is clear. But the formal ceremonies for Mandela are just that... formal ceremonies.
His legacy lives somewhere else.

What's wrong with Marxism? I taught this stuff and several students at LSSU wanted to miss lectures fearing that they would be brainwashed. I'm not a Marxist, but would like Hunter to explain exactly what in Marx's ideas is wrong. Do your research and don't give me crap!
redranger 12/8/2013 11:44:04 PM Report

Your reply is superb. In this area you certainly outrank me. I am delighted to admit that.
Hunter101 12/9/2013 12:07:02 AM Report

Shakey, I'll give you my honest opinion on Marxism.

If I were to fall under any definition, it would be the Proletariat. This means I work, I'm a labourer and I'm not rich.

Even though I work, pay taxes (basically getting stiffed for working hard by the government) I would never want to see wage equality or a classless society.

The driving force of society is to work hard so it pays off and you are better off than you were before. Capitalism drives innovation. If I come out with a new product and I can't reap profit from it, why would I want to come out with that product in the first place?

Basically, Marxism is a way for people who are poor to whine about why people who have more than them shouldn't.

Basically, it comes down to two things. Capitalists according to Marx are greedy. A Marxist according to a Capitalist would be green with envy at their success.

What is wrong with it is this: Marxism provides no goal (other than to be a bleeding heart and help human cause which not everyone wants to do) to work towards financially. It produces a stagnated state of innovation. For what reason? So there can be a society without class.

That essentially equates to everyone being poor/lazy ... I mean equal.

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