Grump 12/3/2013 6:28:46 AM Report
Good morning everyone, was just reading the National news on Soo Today It seems the Senate is a little PO'd with some of the control nonsense out of the PMO so are considering calling Runia to testify about the audit. It looks like there is an ounce or two of self respect in there after all. Also the RCMP have requested all e-mails etc from LeBreton and crew who whitewashed Duffy's report. Do all you neo-cons still think this is a nothing issue that's going to go away and die anytime soon? Merry Christmas Steve. Have a great day all.
right wing 12/3/2013 6:29:52 AM Report
So this is what it looks like in here this time of the morning....
David Poluck 12/3/2013 6:38:45 AM Report
Apparently having an E store is not enough for some..
Looks as if someone decided last night that 1 am would be a good time to see if my store was open...looking for the five fingers discount I guess.
David Poluck 12/3/2013 6:39:40 AM Report
Hey RW, Hey Grump!
right wing 12/3/2013 6:53:01 AM Report
Top of the day to you David Poluck...and don't let them slimy little thieves get you down.
David Poluck 12/3/2013 7:20:19 AM Report
Thanks RW..not down..just annoyed.
Wild Turkey 12/3/2013 8:17:54 AM Report
Thought for the day---"Eagles may soar-- but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"---Stephan Wright
right wing 12/3/2013 8:51:08 AM Report
From the Ontario Liberals responding to an article on how our hydro costs will increase by 42% within five years.
"Ontario expects to have half of its energy generated by renewable sources, such as wind and solar, by 2025 but will phase them in over a longer period than anticipated in the 2010 plan."
Really Premier Kathleen Wynne.
You should call Germany and let them in on how Ontario is going to accomplish this.
Germany, considered to be the leader in Green power technology, at best has harnessed a mere 20% with all of its green energy combined.
Germany has invested billions into this and the German people pay heavily for this subsidized "cheap" energy.
On top of that Germany, which also shut down it's nuclear program, has had to vamp up it's coal burning plants in 2012 in order to prevent wide spread blackouts.
In 2012 Germany's actual greenhouse gas contribution went up 1.6% but you won't read this in any German newspaper headlines.
Perhaps the Ontario Liberals will give out free boxes of candles and sweaters during their next election campaign, that way us folks in Ontario won't be cold and completely in the dark.
flyhawk25 12/3/2013 9:13:13 AM Report
This green energy campaign benefits everybody but the consumers.
It may have merit down the road but we were forced to buy into something we knew little about.
The investors did however.
Money from thg dumb taxpayers.And a blight on the landscape.
Wild Turkey 12/3/2013 9:28:39 AM Report
This one's for Spelly--"If a word in the dictionary were misspelled---how would we know?"--Stephan Wright----------Have a great day all!!!!!!
debo 12/3/2013 9:33:59 AM Report
I have to say I agree with about 90-95% of your post Fly ... but then ... "And a blight on the landscape." Well, coal, oil, gas(fracking) and the much ballyhooed nuclear option are well beyond "blights" on our landscape.
I think every major (and "minor") hydro site and potential hydro site should be re-evaluated with a view to implementing the newest technologies available to us. And a "mixture" of the least harmful/most cost-effective energy production scenarios adopted. And, hopefully hydro is in the forefront.
lookaround 12/3/2013 9:35:41 AM Report
So Right Wing instead of berating and complaing and bitching what do you propose we do about our high energy bills. Keep on keeping on perhaps changing our ways. I will be waiting. The PC's certainly won't erase that. Just like the Liberals promised to do but then low and behold we had a 7 billion carry over from the Harris years. So I say screw the Liberals the NDP and the PCs and protest.
Hunter101 12/3/2013 9:41:46 AM Report
So this is what it looks like in here this time of the morning....
rw, stop yelling into Grump's ear.
mallet 12/3/2013 9:42:03 AM Report
I guess all the "greenies" have glossed over the Japanese news regarding the 30% increase in green house gas they intend to put out so they can stay in business by using more of the old coal fired generating stations. Was not much of a headline a few weeks ago as they have shut down all their Nuclear stations, but they need that 'Dirty" power to stay a going concern. As for that Liberal ad for Ms Wynne "I have my goals and will not stop until I achieve them" were they to put us in the poor house and back in the 18th century???
Javaman 12/3/2013 9:56:47 AM Report
Horwarth and Hudak just kill me. They rant and rave about how terrible energy costs are(and they are) but never offer up what THEY would do if elected. How are they going to be any different when it comes to this energy debacle? Saying TSK TSK TSK is not enough Angela !!We are partially in this mess because the NDP continue to support and prop up the Liberals. Do you smell an NDP/Liberal coalition in the wind?
seriously 12/3/2013 10:05:08 AM Report
Who's not COMPLAINING?
Grump 12/3/2013 10:06:31 AM Report
rw I would expect that 20% of Germany's power would run all of Canada. That said are you not the guy that always wants to compare apples and apples? Hunter when you have something half intelligent to say I'll consider responding. That will likely be never. Mallet if you really want a mess elect Hudak or Andrea or bring back Dalton. Wynne didn't grab me much in the beginning but she is looking better all the time. Hudak is just a dumber version of Mike Harris and we know what the NDP did to Ontario the last time ,even with a smart leader. Anyone but me think history repeats itself? Harper is following Mulroney's style. When Brian knew he was toast he travelled the world first class plus on the taxpayer's dime.
Hunter101 12/3/2013 10:15:02 AM Report
Wynne is useless, Grump. Shes squandering your money and you like her for it?
She's going to raise energy 42% in the next 5 years because we're "going green." If she took her head out from between her partners legs she might be able to see what's going on.
mallet 12/3/2013 10:15:15 AM Report
How about opening up a few more wood plants and doing what the Californian company is doing in WAWA, and make wood pellets that can be burned instead of coal and open up all the coal fired plants that have been closed. If they can do that for the DRAX station in the UK then why not here, and then dump the wind and solar high priced energy somewhere else, or better yet cancel the contracts they have with them...
Wisenheimer 12/3/2013 10:20:07 AM Report
Hydro is horrible ... It floods acres and acres of First Nations' moose pasture and dislocates snail darters and other such important critters. All other forms of energy, of course, impacts the moose pasture in some way, so I'm thinking maybe we get our energy from the hot air that emanates from liberal thinkers.
Wisenheimer 12/3/2013 10:22:43 AM Report
Hunter .. Awkward!
mallet 12/3/2013 10:25:50 AM Report
I will support anyone who wants to do things logically, raising hydro prices will not encourage growth in any industry, which will mean there are no high paying jobs, which in turn leads to out migration, which leads to nothing. If Ms Wynnes idea is to put this province back to the 19th century she is at least going to reach one of her goals and like her ad goes she does not stop until she reaches them. I do not know if Hudak will be any different but he cannot be worse than what we have now. Perhaps what we really need is a bankruptcy manager to run the province for a few years as a business and to cut out all the unnecessary waste, New Zealand did it a couple of decades ago maybe we should try it...
T-rat 12/3/2013 10:40:26 AM Report
Higher electricity costs!! Ontario's Green Energy Act -- what a piece of bureaucratic gobbledegook. GREEN, as in greenhorn, or as in meaning raw, untrained, inexperienced, untested would be more applicable.
Start closing the doors of industry in this province because the migration is going to continue with more and more major employers pulling up stakes and heading out because of outrageous hydro costs.
I don't know who is more incompetent in this portfolio -- the various agencies that comprise hydro in Ontario or the bumbling politicos at Queen's Park -- regardless of their political stripe.
We want to get off coal-generated power because it is polluting and harms the environment. So, in its infinite wisdom our government(s) propose overly expensive and unreliable wind and solar, which has been proven to be substantially flawed in other parts of the world.
We know that biomass is green, renewable energy which is being burned to produce carbon-neutral, non-polluting electricity. The Atikokan power plant, when it comes on line will be the first in North America to replace dirty coal with plentiful green biomass. And if we have anything in abundance in this province, we have woody biomass. Great announcement for Wawa recently -- Rentech is going to be producing 350,000 tonnes of biomass per year to replace coal and generate clean hydro -- in ENGLAND!!
If the English and any number of other European countries can see the light, what in hell is the matter with these morons in Toronto?
Where is Ed Diebel when we really need him? For those not in the know, he's the guy from North Bay a number of years back who advocated passionately for cessation and the creation of the Province of Northern Ontario. Southern Ontario needs us. We sure as hell can't afford and don't need them!!!!
Zing 12/3/2013 10:44:07 AM Report
Totally inappropriate comment. This is a public forum. If you don't like a politician, fine, but let's keep it civil, eh?
soowat 12/3/2013 10:44:24 AM Report
Fly agreed with RW. Next somebody is going to say that Santa Claus is real.
Niigaanis 12/3/2013 10:51:05 AM Report
"so I'm thinking maybe we get our energy from the hot air that emanates from liberal thinkers."
I would say you're the expert on "swamp gas"....along with the rest of your motley crew...lmao
theprotector 12/3/2013 11:03:37 AM Report
LOL @ hunter
flyhawk25 12/3/2013 11:30:39 AM Report
More good news!
Rush Limbaugh has called Pope Francis a Marxist.Seems ol' Rush found out the pope admires liberation theologians.
I'm in good company comrades.
Wisenheimer 12/3/2013 12:43:08 PM Report
Niiganis .. Sorry, I forgot, the snail darter, is your brother. Laugh out loud at that would ya.
learningaswego 12/3/2013 12:59:27 PM Report
Jacobs team wins another in Winnipeg - fantastic, lads!
theprotector 12/3/2013 1:20:56 PM Report
I heard that the PUC is fed off a well and they refused to hook up to their own water!
Snobank 12/3/2013 1:37:40 PM Report
The protector is stirring the brown water again.
debo 12/3/2013 1:40:10 PM Report
I'm thinking the constant supply of "biomass" produced as a by-product of Wisen's "vestigal" mental processes might be a start point for a renewable energy source ... however more to the point ...
As usual the "W" constructs a straw-man to try to make debate points with. To wit:
- The mega displacements due to large hydro developments HAVE ALREADY OCCURRED and that bell won't/can't be "unrung". So upgrading those facilities will do NO FURTHER DAMAGE.
- the smaller, possible projects would/could be undertaken in consultation with identified stakeholder groups that are outside the description "average Ontario consumer" and the cost/benefit of the project evaluated.
The problem I have with blind opposition to solar power is the HYPOCRISY of many of it's detractors.
They are against the increased cost and the TERRIBLE cosmetic impact on the environment ... I think their PROBLEM is that it has an immediate effect on them.
YEAH WELL ...
All the present methods of producing power have LONG-TERM EFFECTS THAT WILL IMPACT THE LIFE QUALITY OF MY CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN. And therein lies the HYPOCRISY ...
We have to accept some of the burden/costs today so that they don't have to take on ALL the costs of our life-style once we have departed the planet.
That's NOT LIBERAL THINKING unWisenheimer, that's called ... taking responsibility for yourself (Hell, I thought that was one of the required NeoCon mantras).
Put more simply ... as my Aunt Agnes used to say after a good meal ... CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS.
KENNEDY919 12/3/2013 1:41:53 PM Report
I agree with T-Rat in his assessment of
the Ontario Green Energy Act. It is beyond the level of insanity as to what the Ontario government has done.
1/ Canada has an over abundance of cheap hydro-electricity. So much so that we send the bulk of it to the United States. There is also a lot of potential Hydro-electricity still not developed.
2/ Canada is an oil producing country.We cannot use the oil we presently produce thus the reason for all the pipeline discussion to sell our oil elsewhere.
3/ Unlike most countries in the world we do not have to depend on nobody else for our energy needs. We should be the last country in the world to pursue costly green energy initatives
4/ The province produces an overabundance of green energy between Midnight and 0700 AM. This energy that we pay a premium for is given to Quebec at no cost during this time.
5/ In the next five years our Hydro costs will increase 60 % directly due to the added costs incurred with the Ontario Green Energy Act.
6/ Our governments have failed to pass on the advantage of cheap energy to the industries and businesses that employ Canadians. We can soon build more solar panels and windmills on the properties of industries that have moved outside this country to be more competitive.
Wild Turkey 12/3/2013 1:52:46 PM Report
Grump----get back over here!!!!!
Zing 12/3/2013 1:56:19 PM Report
"properties of industries that have moved outside this country"
Which companies have left our country due to electricity prices?
Snobank 12/3/2013 3:00:20 PM Report
The Liberals sees the glass as half-full.
The N.D.P. sees the glass as half-empty.
The Conservatives see that the poor people have far too much free water.
Snobank 12/3/2013 3:02:47 PM Report
Forgot to add: The Green Party thinks we should pour the water back in the pond where we should lap at it.
The P.U.C. thinks we should thank them for what they pour for us.
Oldie Goldie 12/3/2013 3:25:14 PM Report
Senator Romeo Dallaire is not fit to drive a vehicle---He has had too many problems that get to him rather easily.
He was found wandering aimlessly in the Ottawa River---He is suffering from Post Traumatic Syndrome Disorder and is, sooner or later, going to hurt someone with his car.
Senators can get Limo rides to work so why doesn't he do that ?
Hunter101 12/3/2013 3:25:40 PM Report
Zing, I know it was inappropriate. Those are the kind of comments people need to make. There isn't enough of that these days. Everyone has to be politically correct. Pretty soon free speech will be a history lesson.
flyhawk25 12/3/2013 3:38:13 PM Report
Hunter101...your free speech offends my sense of the appropriate.
You may see yourself as a champion for freedom of expression and that is your right.
I see you as a tasteless boor who needs to learn what is inappropriate in a public forum.
That is my right.
shakespeare 12/3/2013 3:44:32 PM Report
Hunter: what you posted has nothing to do with political correctness. It was gross and insulting and was irrelevant to the political issue that you were addressing.
shakespeare 12/3/2013 3:49:24 PM Report
"He was found wandering aimlessly in the Ottawa River"
He was obviously wearing a very effective life jacket!
Hunter101 12/3/2013 4:02:59 PM Report
Well what about it was so insulting to you personally fly/shakespeare?
Hunter101 12/3/2013 4:04:13 PM Report
fly, I actually agree with your statement about me being a boor. I am completely rough around the edges.
KENNEDY919 12/3/2013 4:14:23 PM Report
Many companies just in Northern Ontario have folded up due to their inability to be competitive.A lot of this was due to the stronger Canadian dollar Now lets add a further 50% increase in Hydro rates to add a further challenge for them to operate in Canada.Once strong vibrant companies like St.Marys Paper,Weyerhauser in Wawa,
Dubreillville.Domtar in White River,Marathon Pulp in Marathon,Kimberley Clarke in Terrace Bay,Caterpillar in London,Heinz in Leamington are now gone. How will this increase in hydro affect Essar Steel already struggling to keep their head above water.
If there is not a business case to operate in Canada companies will continue to disappear.Tenaris is building a huge super mill in Texas ready to come online in 2016.Where will it make sense for them to operate from a cost perspective ?
These increasing Hydro rates will just be another nail in the coffin of many industries trying to survive.
shakespeare 12/3/2013 4:25:42 PM Report
Duh! Insulting to Ms. Wynne! I'm sure your rough exterior is a compensation for the My Little Pony undies that you
cathyh 12/3/2013 4:30:59 PM Report
Kennedy919: I totally agree with you. The Liberal gov't, I'm sorry to say, has mismanaged our province big time. I, for one, can't understand how Deb Matthews can keep her job. She has proven totally incompetent in her health portfolio. Unfortunately, I don't see a viable alternative to the Liberals.
T-rat 12/3/2013 5:20:39 PM Report
Now we're getting somewhere -- the absolute incompetence of appointed officials named to head up various ministries in this province, and the current references are just to liberal ministers over the past 11 years that Ontario has had to endure.
Previous Energy minister(s) involved in the billion+ dollar boondoggle over nuclear plants and trying to maintain liberal ridings, resigned in embarrassment, took their fat pensions and left the building. Chiarelli, the current minister is certainly not the brightest bulb in the room.
Now Health Minister Matthews and the multi-million dollar waste and scandal over ORNGE, which went on for years right under their noses. Just this week Matthews admitted she didn't even read the auditor's report that talked about Mazza's extravagance and outright theft. Even worse, it is strongly hinted that patients died as a result of the air ambulance blundering.
What I have always found astounding is that average Joe, or Jane decides they want to run for elected office (provincial or federal), throw their name in the ring, get elected and become the 'honourable member', where they may reside quietly in the backbenches for years. Then, as a result of a government shake-up he/she may be appointed a minister of the crown. Wow, all of a sudden they morph into super intelligent beings able to solve all problems. Deserving or not they are put on a pedestal by staff and any government employee they come in contact with. They aren't average Joe or Jane any longer. They are now "Minister" and are to be revered, as if all of a sudden they actually got smart. Take McGuinty as a prime example.
Remember how you felt in grade school when the "inspector" came into the classroom. You watched in awe bordering on fear as your teacher cowtowed to this mysterious, all-powerful being.
The incompetence at the top has become alarming, and the complete lack of responsibility and accountability is disgusting. Now, tell us again how confident you feel in how well our province is being run and our limited tax dollars are being managed?
right wing 12/3/2013 5:22:21 PM Report
You comment was politically incorrect and insensitive...but you did own up to it.
I have to be honest, I did laugh when I read it.
There have been many like comments made on here and in much more volume by certain posters but of course he gets a pass by flyhawk and shakey.
shakespeare 12/3/2013 5:40:38 PM Report
No one gets a pass from me for that rw. If I see it, I call it. I am glad to see the protector got called on his/her post which was totally boorish also regarding wisen's lineage. No reason to flog a dead horse. I similarly don't like personal attacks on Harper (his weight etc.) that do not relate to his policies.
right wing 12/3/2013 5:47:14 PM Report
I got folks discussing this green energy scam.
I had a conversation some years back with a fellow that had retired from what was then Ontario Hydro.
He was a mechanical engineer that had been in charge of small electric hydro dams.
As an example the ones that used to be in Bruce Mines and the Thessalon area.
He told me they were making a huge mistake closing down all of these small stations across Ontario.
They all needed upgrading but in his, and he said most of his colleagues opinions, the money should have been spent to bring them all up to snuff.
He knew of the renewable energy plans and he said it was fine as long as they kept the main energy sources on line and used this for what it was really capable of...in his words, not much.
His point with the small hydro dams located at small communities was that they supply lots of power for each community and put the excess back into the grid.
Remember the "big blackout"...Great Lakes Power was responsible for bringing power back to many areas due to their ability to "trickle feed" the grid and bring it back up.
His opinion was also that Ontario should build another larger modern nuclear plant and upgrade the old one.
He said if Ontario takes the path it is planning that not so far in the future we will pay dearly for energy and it will eventually chase industry elsewhere.
Well that future he was talking about is here...I'd say he was a pretty smart intuitive fellow.
right wing 12/3/2013 5:50:58 PM Report
I was simply pointing out a bit of a double standard.
I shall watch for you to be flogging another that makes the same and at times worse comments quite regular.
mallet 12/3/2013 5:58:04 PM Report
.. "Will impact the quality of life for my children and their children" ..
Not going to have much of a life if there are only menial jobs about here for them, is there, those that make it through university will have to move away to other places that do not subscibe to the "Green" idea to the same degree as Ontario does. It is great to say Ontario has no coal fired generating stations, but it is sad to say that we have lost and downsized many manufacturing jobs as well. Great to say that the Soo is the "Green Capital" of the country if you price out the major employer because you are so "Green", and should the impossible happen and more people move here and they want new houses near to town where are you going to build them, You filled all the near town vacant land with solar panels in your rush for Greeness. Of course you can always build on the land that was the Steel Plant, oh but thats contaminated isn't it, who would want to build on that?? I think our F N peoples would be a bit upset if you want to flood more of their land for hydro electric purposes, ask, I think, the Crowe Nation in northern Quebec.
I will vote against any Liberal candidate in this area no matter who is running and will help anyne running against them...
flyhawk25 12/3/2013 5:59:25 PM Report
As much as I don't want to further legitimize that poster's comment with too much attention it was wrong.
There are 'levels of discourse'. What might be seen as silly and fun at a pub between a group of guys is not suitable here.
To add to Shakey's comment - I was one of those who made fun of Harper's weight on here.
I was called on it by a fairly frequent poster whom I consider a friend so I stopped and apologized.
I think the same is true with Rob Ford. He's an easy target for his physical appearance but I would be hypocritical to believe one thing and say another.
That's why as much as I believe in free speech and the anonymity of this site I like the summits.
If someone thinks I'm a jerk let them say it to my face.
If we don't police ourselves then this just becomes another rant-fest for sissies with computers.
shakespeare 12/3/2013 6:28:30 PM Report
Actually, I think that in Ontario we have an interesting situation. I have spoken to nobody who defends the Libs and most agree that on health and energy (not minor topics) they have made a total and expensive "balls up" . And yet ... they may get re-elected. What is it that turns so many against the Conservatives? the NDP? I really feel that we are coming to the belief that we think that those who aspire to political power are either idiots, charlatans or Mike Duffys. How come that with a real opportunity for change the Cons are saddled with Hudak, whom nobody likes or trusts?
cathyh 12/3/2013 6:38:43 PM Report
right wing: How right you are. I also worked with a person knowledgeable with the energy supply from small providers, he said the very same thing. Do the politicians even look at the BIG mistakes they make? I wonder. I suppose a lot of the problems we as a province face right now are partly our mistakes, that is the electorate, we put too much trust in our elected officials.
steelworker 12/3/2013 6:50:40 PM Report
Hunter 101: don't bother with the two half-wit twins complaining about your earlier statement about Wynne. If she was a Conservative the dolts would be all over her and her "lifestyle choices". It's none of my business what she does on her down days; all I know is that she is just another holier-than-thou Lib driving the economy of Ontario into the abyss (think Detroit North).
flyhawk25 12/3/2013 7:06:48 PM Report
Since you joined the fray someone needs to call you on it.
I am a third generation steelworker whose father kicked him in the arse to go back to school because I liked the work and the money too much.
And you do a disservice to every worker by using that moniker.
Your comments are bullshit.
Grump 12/3/2013 7:10:10 PM Report
Sheesh another expert on nothing but crude heard from. You fellows are down around eighth or ninth class now. Politically correct my a**.
steelworker 12/3/2013 7:11:37 PM Report
Blah,blah blah-back in the "tool box" cretins.
Grump 12/3/2013 7:11:55 PM Report
Goodness Fly you are getting fast off the mark in your old age. lol
steelworker 12/3/2013 7:14:45 PM Report
... and fly you liked the money but probably did little work.
Grump 12/3/2013 7:15:14 PM Report
Excuse me, I was being far too kind at eighth or ninth class. A total lack of any class or redeeming features. Carry on, make a complete a** of yourself.
flyhawk25 12/3/2013 7:25:32 PM Report
Shh Grumparoo...do not encourage them.Let them fall asleep in the basement buried in junk food and ignorance.
debo 12/3/2013 8:17:49 PM Report
Mallet your post of 5:58 indicates that you didn't read (or ... I don't know ... made a conscious effort to misinterpret the point of my comments at 1:40 and 9:33.
I referenced a mixture of power production modalities as being a reasonable solution to pursue. I also criticized "blind opposition" to solar energy NOT reasonable objection to it on the basis of cost or present-day technological restrictions.
BUT without some continuing investigation/investment and application of improved technologies in SOLAR and WIND produced energy .... our descendants WILL have our mess to clean up.
BUT you have us (or me) covering the Soo in solar panels with no regard to WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE. I'm some kind of "GREEN" Czar in your world.
I'd direct you to re-read my post ... BUT I think your intent much like the "W's" is to frame your own delusion as the the point of debate ... and of course take it to some illogical degree so it can be dismissed.
EXCELLENT .... you refuted your own creation ... BRAVO !
Just one question ... Do you and "W" buy the straw by the bale ... or the barnful?
* I know, I know SPELLY ... barnful is not a real word.
debo 12/3/2013 8:29:24 PM Report
Wow, I just read right wing's post of 5:47 and he seems to be in agreement with what I felt was the main point of my posts previous to his.
Now, I think one of two things could possibly happen here:
*A Right Wing post will appear shortly disavowing that my points coincide with his.
*I will look out my back window and discover that there are TWO bright blue moons in the night sky illuminating our fair burg.
mallet 12/3/2013 9:21:17 PM Report
Perhaps if you were more succinct You would have made more sense, but as you put it Solar and wind is the only feasible alternatives that we have, I have to beg to differ. Why cannot the present/past coal fired generating stations be converted to biomas. The wood from the areas consummed by forest fires could be harvested for this use. I do not know for sure that the pellets used by commercial users are the same small pellets used by ordinary house wood stoves, but I would guess the commercial ones are larger and could therefore use vitually all the trees, branches included. I agree I do not like solar or windpower for two very basic reasons, first and foremost, it is very unreliable and inefficient, and second it is a eyesore and blight on the landscape. There is a third reason, but all the green people do not want to acknowledge that, which is the "carbon footprint" used to manufacture these money grubbing tools, probably outways the power they produce..
debo 12/3/2013 9:32:13 PM Report
Read my post of 9:33 SECOND PARAGRAPH ... AGAIN and tell me again how I put forward wind/solar energy production as the only feasible avenues.
And again I note how you attempt to lump in my concerns with "all the green people".
Do you buy the round bales or the old rectangular ones?
steelworker 12/4/2013 1:10:19 AM Report