Mark Brown 10/9/2013 6:53:28 AM Report
Good morning VRoomers (waychskipperdave?wmy!)
What can I say, yesterday's 10-Year Homelessness Reduction Plan Public Input Session was THE BEST public input session I have ever had the privilege of being a part of.
First and foremost, the session WASN'T held at City Hall. It was held at the Community Soup Kitchen on James street where a lot of people who are at the forefront of the homelessness situation in Sault Ste. Marie actually are, which is the BEST PLACE to gather meaningful input on how to improve the Homelessness situation!
Public Input Session Lesson #1 - Go to where the people who have the most experience living the problem you are trying to solve actually are.
Second, the Moderator of the PIS, Mike Nadeau of our city's Social Services Department, DIDN'T spend any time telling us what the city's SSD is doing, he simply asked: What is working for you, and what is not working for you, and what can we do help make your lives better?
Mike began asking those questions like this, "We could sit at our desks at city hall and come up with lots of ideas, but we thought it would be better if we came and asked you what you think would help."
And then he, and Gerry Grandinetti, and another female member of the city's Social Services Department LISTENED, and RECORDED the comments, and STEERED the CONVERSATION when it got a little off track.
Public Input Session Lesson #2 - Simply ask the questions that will help to solve the problem, then listen to, and record, all of the comments that are made so that each comment can be considered and factored into the eventual solution to the 'problem' that is the subject of the Public Input Session.
Here's just a sampling of what some of the bright and caring and passionate and currently downtrodden people who used the Soup Kitchen yesterday had to say:
"Horrible Housing, not Affordable Housing"
"We need more 1 and 2 bedroom apartments"
"Speak up, or write down your thoughts, any way you give us you thoughts is okay" ~ M. Nadeau (Moderator)
"Quit spending money on stuff we don't need"
"Help make us PROUD!"
"Phoenix Rising ['Women Only' HOUSING] is working for me... it's affordable!"
"It takes single people a lot longer to get housing."
"Would you feel proud if you had $400 a month and you had to give away $250 for rent?"
"More buildings for MEN like Phoenix Rising. There are SHELTERS, but that's not the same."
"I need more money!"
"Social Assistance Rates are not appropriate" ~ M. Nadeau (moderator) trying to interpret the previous quote
"Housing needs to be more affordable!"
"Assistance needs to be geared to each individual"
"We need way more places to live, there just aren't enough places"
"The waiting lists for places to live has got to get shorter. Two years is too long to wait for a place."
"There's no coordination of services. There's a different phone number for every little thing, and when you do get hold of someone they just pass the buck... oh, this is the wrong number you have to call..."
"Look at a person's WHOLE LIFE to get a better understanding of their financial needs."
"What about Seniors... we need dentures, meds,... we need HELP!"
"We need to feel proud and good!"
Lots of comments about not enough money.
"It's better if you give us the stuff (dentures, glasses,...) because the money doesn't always go to buying those necessary things"
"We need supports for mental health"
"I need more human interaction with my case worker"
"Case workers need to be more accessible... 24 hours is not a quick enough response time"
"We need more emergency housing for people who find themselves evicted and have no place to go."
"Landlords need to do what they're required to do!"
"Build multi-level building structures for parking if we need more parking."
"Some people aren't very good spellers or writers, and we ALWAYS have to fill out forms to get our requests for assistance, and if you make a mistake it causes delays... can there be other ways to ask for assistance for us people who don't read or write well?"
"Don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes."
And that's just a SAMPLING of the input that was offered by the people who are most directly affected by the lack of housing here in Sault Ste. Marie.
There were a lot of leaders there yesterday at the Soup Kitchen who the people down at the Social Services Department would be wise to seek help from to create and implement the best immediate, and 10-Year, Homelessness Reduction Plan.
People like Strollin' Nolin, and the young girl who stayed out at Goulais in a derelict shack for a while, and the older gentleman who offered the comment about "more human interaction", and the lady who made the comment about landlords holding up their end of the deal, and most especially the lady who stood up and urged everyone in the room to make their voices heard and DO SOMENTHING about this homelessness situation for the benefit of their children and grandchildren!
If you have any input that you'd like to offer just send it to the City Clerk at email@example.com and it will be forwarded to the Mike Nadeau or Gerry Grandinetti of the city's Social Services Department.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown 10/9/2013 6:54:19 AM Report
TODAY'S CITIZEN INFO & INPUT OPPORTUNITIES:
The 2nd and 3rd '10 Year Housing and Homelessness Plan' Public Consultations:
1:15 p.m. - 3:15 p.m. TODAY
Sault Ste. Marie YMCA Auditorium
235 McNabb Street
6:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m. TONIGHT
Sault Ste. Marie Centennial Library
Program Room, Lower Level
50 East Street
Public Feedback is Encouraged!! A good description of the Plan and the input being sought can be found on SooToday at:
To make a written submission about this Homelessness Reduction Plan, email the City Clerk at firstname.lastname@example.org so that your idea(s) can be forwarded to the DSSMSSAB for consideration.
Historic Sites Board Info Session
October 09, 2013 - 12:00 NOON
Wednesday, October 9, 2013
12:00 noon - Civic Centre
99 Foster Drive
Accessibility Advisory Committee Information Session
October 09, 2013 - 2:00 PM TODAY
John Rhodes Community Centre
Agenda: NO AGENDA PUBLISHED ON CORPROATE CALENDAR
Committee of Adjustment Hearings and Public Input Session
October 9, 2013 - 2:00 PM TODAY
City Council Chamber
99 Foster Drive
To make a written submission to any of today's Public Information or Input Sessions email the City Clerk at email@example.com BEFORE the gathering so that your idea(s) can be forwarded to the appropriate body for consideration at the gathering.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Grump 10/9/2013 6:56:22 AM Report
Good morning everyone. This is just for you Wisen, that said I don't post at any special time, only when I have a spare minute. By the way Soowat is not a woman but he is married to one, LMAO. Also he is not Everson so try your fantasy on elsewhere. rw, rw read your posts over before you hit send, you are a pain in the a** but I know you are better and brighter than that. Have a great day all.
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 7:23:44 AM Report
Before the polarized comments begin over Mark Brown's report of that meeting at the Soup Kitchen I'd like to comment on some thoughts from yesterday's news.
I think that the two are related.
Yesterday's news with the budget shut down in the US was that the families of the war fallen are not getting the standard $100K immediate payment.
Yet the politicians are.
So essentially a few are controlling the fate of the county's economy.
It would be simple and easy to blame Senator Ted Cruz and friends for being selfish rich cats.But I suspect that many of them believe their position to be correct.
Unfortunately the privileged and their families really believe that they are somehow ordained to be the ones who run things.
And that is the danger with a society that really believes that God has somehow blessed them and that those who aren't well off are there because of their own fault or a lack of effort.
Which brings us full circle back to our local issue of the poor and housing.
If we believe it to be true that those in need of help don't know any other life and that it is a generational thing - which it sometimes is -doesn't it seem possible that those of us who are doing well for generations are the same?
By labeling folks as either 'welfare bums' or 'corporate fat cats' aren't we part of the larger problem?
It may be true that we are all created equal but that changes pretty quickly as we grow up.
It's time for an attitudinal change all around and start to recognize each other and try to understand one another as all just people - some fortunate and some not.
right wing 10/9/2013 8:00:36 AM Report
I don't think any discussion will ensue over M.B. report on anything he posted, they are long and dry.
Most folks just scroll on past them.
Good for you for actually reading it.
Yes it is unfortunate that some folks don't have as much as others.
A question for you.
What have you done directly, I'm talking hands on approach, not writing a cheque, to help anybody that needed it.
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 8:28:04 AM Report
If you are asking me to list my charitable acts I choose not to respond.
First of all it's nobody else's business.
Secondly I don't want to get into 'I do more than you do' with anyone.
We all try I would hope.
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 8:30:02 AM Report
Mark Brown, what Ward will you be running in ? We need more folks to help us.
learningaswego 10/9/2013 8:49:28 AM Report
Great day for Nova Scotians - can celebrate the unceremonious turfing (read: annihilaton (Spelly?) of the Dipper government there.
This, after trying an experiment - not much different than Ontario did in the early 90's - of letting the NDP access to the levers and finances of government.
Yeah, the NDP there were so good, even the Preem couldn't get re-elected in his own riding.
Now, at least the people there have a chance - with a new government whose job creation ideas might be more than (figuratively) basically buying people a bus ticket out of the province to go and work in the oil patch out west.
Jimssm 10/9/2013 8:49:42 AM Report
Good post. I couldn't agree more.
theprotector 10/9/2013 8:51:56 AM Report
fly its always a competition with right wing you know that! He only gives to ease his black heart a bit!
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 8:55:46 AM Report
City Council .. fix the roads, plow the snow, try, try not to meddle in people's legitimate ideas to create jobs. Thank your lucky stars that Essar took over at Algoma and Tenaris picked up the Tube Mill. Other than that, go get a coffee.
right wing 10/9/2013 9:00:15 AM Report
No lists required or nor should it be a pissing contest.
My point was going to be, and I suppose I should gotten straight to it, that many folks talk about how the poor should be helped but how many actually take "hands on" action on a daily basis.
In this very busy world we live in today I know personally for me it is hard to do.
I was asked in the past if I could plumb a house for habit for humanity. This is done labour free of course.
As much as I wanted to I did not want to commit to something that I simply did not have the time to do.
Hopefully in my retirement years I can do so.
I have helped people on the street holding up signs requesting food, picked up hitchhikers on the Hwy, many were down and out and I would give them some money.
A young family was trying to make it out West and they were at a local gas station I stopped at. They were almost out of gas and money. I filled their tank.
This type of hands on help is simply what I was getting at.
The daily stuff no matter how small.
Mr. Poster 10/9/2013 9:00:40 AM Report
Duffy back in the news...that crook HAS to be ousted for the senate...NOW.
cathyh 10/9/2013 9:21:53 AM Report
Kudos to Mark Brown. Keep up the good work. Any one of us could be at the soup kitchen as a recipient just as many saulites were left with nothing in the great depression. My family included. As said many times over "charity begins at home."
theprotector 10/9/2013 9:45:27 AM Report
my dear right wing, lets be honest. With everything you have posted here it is more than evident that you would never help anyone , even family unless there was a profit or advantage for yourself. But it was a nice try...
right wing 10/9/2013 10:21:48 AM Report
Take care all.
I hope a dialogue starts that will show that folks do help out on a daily basis.
Among many other forms, this is true hands on charity in my books.
Enjoy the long weekend, hope all have a great Thanksgiving.
Skipper Dave I hope you are spending it at home with family and friends...praying for you pal...even it you don't believe.
Back on Tuesday the 15th.
Please keep the applause down to a minimum.
Snobank 10/9/2013 10:23:45 AM Report
@theprotector: Let's be honest. If rw said he patted a puppy you would accuse him of animal cruelty.
BTW, where's your list of things you are protecting? I suspect #1 would be the pile of excrement you labor to produce. Go ahead, protect it.
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 10:44:43 AM Report
I think it's obvious that I don't like it when the discourse gets petty.
That said I believe that rw's heart is right and his intentions honest.
As with anything it is often perception.
Snobank 10/9/2013 10:59:34 AM Report
To over-generalize, the right often says that charity should spring from the actions of individuals. The left encourages the state to do it. This often leads to the right and the left accusing each other of not wanting to help others.
What's the correct thing to do? I suspect it is a judicious blending of both viewpoints but just what is the proper mixture? There's the rub.
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 11:31:13 AM Report
The disability scams going on as reported recently by 60 Minutes reminds one of the crash of 2008-09. The left blames the unscrupulous establishment (lawyers and judges) the right blames the lazy ne'er do wells looking for a free ride. I blame an administration that encourages both, and wouldn't know how to foster private sector employment if their life depended on it. Romney was their saviour but alas he would have deprived poor Sandra Fluke of free birth control and his wife Ann is a serial equestrian.
mallet 10/9/2013 11:45:43 AM Report
Gee man, I do not see a problem with free birth control, so I am with Ms Fluke over that one. The missus wants to ride horses no problem there either. Surely if preventing a pregnancy is better (and cheaper) than an abortion that would be the way to go. Unless pf course you are a radical catholic in which case the birth crontrol pill for women is a 4hundred pound rock you roll in front of the bedroom door or the male equivalant a small round stone that goes in the shoe and makes you limp!!!
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 12:02:11 PM Report
Mallet .. that's deep!
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 12:17:22 PM Report
Mallet for you and others in need of "sarcasm identification" tools ... let me expound ... If Romney was President, Sandra could fornicate freely, with abandon, for that matter. Abortions would be humming along at the rate of 50 million since Roe V. Wade. The only difference would be that America would have a real President, creating real jobs reducing the 47 million citizens relying on food stamps. Too many bit into the "red herrings" tossed out by the DNC.
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 12:32:29 PM Report
Please explain how a president can 'create jobs'?
cathyh 10/9/2013 12:36:04 PM Report
Wisenheimer: Your generalizations are the same as a snake oil salesman.
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 12:44:58 PM Report
Fly .. approving Keystone Xl, not backing losers like Solyndra, appointing business knowledgeable people to key posts. Opening up Federal lands to oil and gas exploration. Not adding another entitlement program at a time when the existing ones are broke. I got a million of them!
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 12:47:15 PM Report
cathyh .. HUH! Just the facts ma'am.
Just Curious 10/9/2013 12:59:39 PM Report
Heard a rumor today that the old Hospitals had been sold to someone local for a buck and they are gonna turn them into low-rental Condos. Seriously doubt it but any truth at all to the story??Be a major job to make them condos....
Resident 10/9/2013 1:01:35 PM Report
Wisen: Have you seen the movie Avatar? If so, what did you think the point was (if any)?
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 1:11:17 PM Report
Let me see. Deregulating energy and opening federal lands to exploration of fossil fuels will add jobs? And what is the risk/reward?
Getting the XL pipeline will create how many jobs and risk what?
Right now the energy sector - see BP Oil- has a lousy track record.
While you're at it why not dump the minimum wage and watchdog agencies for corporations. We can trust big business.
So what are the other 999,998 'ideas'?
Jimssm 10/9/2013 2:24:38 PM Report
Wisen has shares in an unobtainium mine.
..... does that answer your question ??
KENNEDY919 10/9/2013 2:34:35 PM Report
The Hospital Properties were sold to the TVM Group for $65,000.00. There was no business case to develop the properties with the demolition cost of the existing hospital and any environmental cleanup costs.
These developers may make a go of it by renovatiing the existing buildings into condos.
jumbo 10/9/2013 2:45:56 PM Report
For 2 years my street has waited for the City Board of Works to clean the ditches and flush the culverts as they are over grown with weeds and debris.
The response is your street is on our work order and if we don't get to it this year, we will next year. Steve Butland attended the area in need of work but that is the last anyone has seen or heard from him. Todays reply from BOW, you are on our work list but there has been a lot of rain so we will get to you next year. Also, near the ditch on City property is a buried electrical vault covered with a steel plate. The side of the vault is collapsing and is a health hazard. Maybe CBO will fix these problems before someone is injured followed by a lawsuit.
Zing 10/9/2013 2:52:48 PM Report
They did our street yesterday....and did a very good job at that....all the cat-tails gone, long grass gone, then a big truck flushed the culverts.
I suspect the city will get to everybody within the next year or two.
Just Curious 10/9/2013 4:06:12 PM Report
Thanks Kennedy. Have a hard time visualizing those buildings as Condos. A condo has to have its own plumbing(water,sewer),electrical and concrete isolation walls.Not to mention all the asbestos and ancient piping thru-out the buildings. These were some of the reasons we were given for building the new hospital in the first place.. Kinda wonder if there isn't a squirrel in the woodpile somewhere. Can see them as a retirement home or palative care type use but condos....don't think so...Just my opinion..
Snobank 10/9/2013 4:58:34 PM Report
I heard a rumour that the new owner wants to turn the Plummer Building in to office space, mostly for non-profit organizations. The same rumour said that the General Building will be turned in to senior citizen condos. I can't verify any of this but it might be true.
KENNEDY919 10/9/2013 5:14:05 PM Report
The company who purchased the Hospital property supposedly have a good track record of buying older buildings cheap and renovating the existing structures for condo and commercial units in Southern Ontario.
Unfortunately the Sault's construction costs are steeper than Southern Ontario and you cannot demand the same price in the Soo for the same condo built in Southern Ontario.
The renovation option is the only way to go as even if you spend the 1.5 million to 2 million to demolish. You then need another 3 or 4 million to build new buildings. There is no sound business case to demolish and build new particularly in a fragile Soo economy
BIG BROTHER 10/9/2013 5:35:00 PM Report
I stand to be corrected, but I recall the hospitals were listed at about 5 million dollars. We were told the new hospital cost would be offset, somewhat, by the sale of the old hospitals.
In my humble opinion, we were sold a 'bill of goods'! The powers that be new exactly what they were willing to sell the hospitals for (65,000$), but inflated the numbers by about 5 million dollars in order to make the sale of the new hospital more palatable to the taxpayer.
Grump 10/9/2013 6:17:09 PM Report
Big Brother, there you have it the third or fourth biggest lie in the world. Kennedy a good developer could demolish and new build cheaper than an inexperienced builder could renovate. I understand there are other heavy hitters now involved as well as TVM and fully expect they will pull off whatever they set out to do. The location is prime. The Sault is also very short of smaller, more affordable housing units.
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 6:27:23 PM Report
BB and Grump...that's been my beef from the beginning. There was plenty of space to build 'up', add multi-level parking and keep the site.
This year in London for surgery I saw the perfect example at Victoria hospital.
We've been sold snake oil for so long we've acquired a taste for it.
Grump 10/9/2013 6:37:04 PM Report
Fly you are right again. If this group don't pull this off and put some smaller affordable housing on the Sault Market. If that doesn't happen the whole thing will be a loss, loss instead of a loss, win.
mallet 10/9/2013 7:17:42 PM Report
My memory isn't what it used to be but did we not have this argument/discussion a while back.. If this company and others can renovate for "peanuts" how come we got taken for nearly a billion bucks for this new place, which you will enjoy walking around (when you get your knee done). Not going to re-hash what we already discussed but I find it rather pecular that you would say it would be better to renovate now rather than demolish and rebuild.. I am sorry I forgot you are a liberal, and know how to flip flop with the best.... LMAO...
Oldie Goldie 10/9/2013 7:35:11 PM Report
Just Curious--You might remember that there was an Incinerator on the General
property and Oil Tanks behind that property.
I, too, wish that somebody would make good use of both sites but an Environmental Study would prohibit a lot of uses.
That is probably why no Local Builders showed any interest in buying the properties.
Most work would require a complete demolition of both old Hospitals and removal of multi tons of soil that is most likely heavily contaminated before starting any buildings.
As it sits now the land is worth far more than the buildings.
The Doctors Building between the 2 Hospitals is showing many signs of wear and tear also.
I wish good luck to anyone who wants to use that land.
flyhawk25 10/9/2013 7:47:00 PM Report
Grump...it seems so simple and I agree with you.
I said from the outset that the agenda was to literally steal waterfront property.
If it does in fact become affordable rental housing with a mix of tenants good.
But I'm not holding what's left of my breath.
Resident 10/9/2013 9:22:45 PM Report
realitycheck 10/9/2013 10:01:38 PM Report
For those of you complaining about going new rather than renovating SAH, think of what was there, old buildings with one, the old General, not having air conditioning and with no possibility that it could ever have it because of the way it was built. Patients sweltered in heat well over 35 degrees in summer. The cancer area was a joke. If you think there was a conspiracy in the sale of the old SAH property, consider that it was on the market for two years at $4.9 million and there was no interest in it. I get the idea some of you just bitch for the sake of bitching.
Hunter101 10/9/2013 10:15:40 PM Report
Amen to realitycheck. People really have no idea what they are talking about and will take any opportunity to complain.
Also, this goes for everyone; If you don't like walking/can't walk the long hallways in our new hospital, grab a wheelchair. There never seems to be a problem with people using a motorized scooter in Walmart.
Snobank 10/9/2013 11:07:24 PM Report
"I said from the outset that the agenda was to literally steal waterfront property."
Fly, do you really and truly believe that the council the provincial government and assorted contractors met in some sort of secret cabal to plan the building of a new hospital so that this vast grey conspiracy could get their hands on the waterfront property illegally and deliberately defraud the taxpayers? Tell me you were merely emitting hyperbole and not joining the tinfoil hat crowd.
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 11:17:38 PM Report
Res. Avatar was scary, liberal b.s. from James Cameron. Cameron being a super wealthy Canadian who flits around in private jets, opulent yachts, and has several homes bigger than Buckingham Palace. He like Al Gore likes to tell other poor smucks how to live while he dwells in carbon splendor.
Wisenheimer 10/9/2013 11:30:38 PM Report
Jimssm ... Have no classic mining shares at present i.e. Tech, First Quantum, Hudbay. Do have some gold diggers like Yamana, Goldcorp and Iamgold. Just concentrate on our banks, Telcos and good Oil and gas names like Crescent Point and CNQ. All mentioned pay juicy dividends and keep you from becoming dependant and whiney. And lord knows we can do with less of that!
Resident 10/9/2013 11:49:20 PM Report
Wisen: I think it's scary because it's too close to the truth. Big business can be as greedy as any individual if there are no boundaries I think. Liberal????
Wisenheimer 10/10/2013 12:18:18 AM Report
Fly ... TRP says completing XL will employ 50,000 workers from welders, to pipe mills, to construction workers, to operators, to environmental support, the whole gamut. Obama loves the just completed bottom end, from Cushing to Port Arthur, but is wavering on the top end to keep George Clooney happy. Pipelines are the safest way to transport crude as shown by 47 people being incinerated at Le Megantic. It should go thru, as common sense will come to the fore, if not the oil will get to tidewater one way or the other.
Mark Brown 10/10/2013 4:06:43 AM Report
I loved the conclusion of the interesting comparison you made between U.S. Congresspeople and our local, currently financially impoverished folks, namely:
"By labeling folks as either 'welfare bums' or 'corporate fat cats' aren't we part of the larger problem? It may be true that we are all created equal but that changes pretty quickly as we grow up. It's time for an attitudinal change all around and start to recognize each other and try to understand one another as all just people - some fortunate and some not."
Not only was your, "let's try to understand one another, no matter what our backgrounds are", conclusion a goal for each of us to strive for, it set the tone quite nicely for all of the ensuing conversations here in the VRoom today.
Thank you kindly for your thoughtful reflections on this matter good sir.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown 10/10/2013 4:34:19 AM Report
Thanks for your kind words, but I have to ask: Where were you during the last election... I could have earned 493 votes if you had voted for me!!! :(
I will not be running for elected office in the 2014 Municipal Election. Not in any Ward and not for Mayor. Period. Full Stop.
I believe that this City Council is doing a very good job on behalf of the citizens of Sault Ste. Marie. Trust me, we could do a whole heck of a lot worse.
Of course there are a few things our City Council continues to do that I think are not good for the citizens of Sault Ste. Marie, but those things can only be fixed by City Council, and winning one seat in an election will not likely change those things. The entire City Council must change those things.
So I will continue to do the things that I can do to help City Council... filming Public Information Sessions (board and committee meetings), writing reports of the things I think others might find interesting about those Information Sessions, reporting our representatives to the Ombudsman when they break the rules, providing my written and verbal feedback to our elected and appointed representatives when I feel I have something helpful to offer, taking our City Council to the OMB when they need to be taken there, and, more generally, help citizens of Sault Ste. Marie to more fully participate in the betterment of our community.
Whether this City Council realizes it or not, we are all in this 'make our city the best it can be' thing together... every single solitary one of us.
If there is anything that you feel I can do to help you, Wisenheimer, please let me know, and I will try my level best to help.
Thanks again for the vote of confidence Wisenheimer. I appreciate it very much.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Mark Brown 10/10/2013 5:37:23 AM Report
Dear VRoomers interested in the SAH TVM deal,
Not only did TVM purchase the old SAH site for $65,000, under a new proposed Downtown Community Improvement Plan, they will be receiving $12,500 in façade improvement money, and HUGE amounts of property tax rebate $$$ over the first several years of renting.
There is no doubt that this city needs tons of $900 - $1000 a month all-in rental units to entice seniors to leave their single family homes where they only pay for property taxes and maintenance, and will NOT move to rental units in big numbers if the all-in price is much higher than $1000.
But a DCIP tax rebate is NOT the best way to do it. Economic Development Fund applications with TVM's rationale for their NEED of taxpayer dollars is a much better way to do it.
City Council, and more specifically the Planning Department, will argue that it is better to entice TVM to carry out the refurbishment of the SAH by having them pay the full amount of property taxes every year, and then at the end of the year giving them back an average of 50% of the property taxes that they already paid, and to provide this 50% rebate to TVM for the first three or four years.
The Planning Department will FALSELY claim that this costs the taxpayers nothing because had TVM not refurbished the SAH site the taxpayers would still be receiving approximately the same amount of tax revenues for those three or four years.
This is FALSE because it does cost us taxpayers actual money.
The reason it costs us taxpayers money is because of a thing called the Ontario Municipal Partnership Fund Grant (the OMPF Grant), and the OMPF Grant is an amount of money that the Province gives our community based on the ASSESSMENT our city has. Currently our city doesn't have enough assessment so we GET MONEY from the Province.
When our assessment increases, as will be the case for the refurbished TVM SAH refurbished sites, we will get LESS OMPF Grant money from the province, which will have to be made up by us taxpayers!!!
Community Improvement Plan TAX REBATES are not good for the taxpayers when the city receives an OMPF Grant because those TAX REBATES come directly from the taxpayers. A much better approach would be for TVM Group to apply for Economic Development Fund municipal assistance.
The benefit of that to the taxpayers is that TVM would have to justify, in detail, why, and EXACTLY HOW MUCH municipal assistance (taxpayer dollars) they need in a written request to our City Council. This specific municipal assistance EDF request will result in smaller amounts of assistance being provided to TVM than will be the case with a DCIP average 50% rebate of property taxes.
Exact requests for assistance are much better for us taxpayers than general 50% for three year tax rebates It's like the difference between a Rifle and a Shotgun, with the wasted shot being our hard earned tax dollars.
Hope that helps.
Sincerely and Respectfully,