skipper dave 2/13/2013 5:41:36 AM Report
Good morning sweet Soo! On the subject of green energy! It's not for me an all or nothing. What I object to is the lack of upfront study to try an get a clear benefit of it's costs (dollars, environment) and long term viability. When a green energy source comes to us costing 200% more than the present and the government is the one putting in place the programs that benefit a few business firms then for me all the red flags go up. For instance in Sweden there are towns that have a central heating plant where they produce low pressure hot water that is piped to the individual homes for heating. imagine one furnace as opposed to 7,000 little furnaces all requiring fuel lines. Now that is green. Imagine a wind farm near superior where the environment is not devastated (yes there is negative effect) and using the wind energy pump water out of the lake to a reservoir higher up in the hills and draw the water down to create energy at peak demands, other words power storage. Now these are to me good green proposals that are worthy of study. Oh ya have a great day All you libs, enjoy the new cabinet that is going to come up with a new way to fix what they have put in place. Doesn't get much funnier than that. Good luck David "O" on trying to learn the party song, sung at a much higher note!
Grump 2/13/2013 7:15:59 AM Report
Good morning Skipper and all. You green energy skeptics should do a little research on the subject. (No I don't mean on Fox News or Rush's radio comedy). Most of Europe started with Green Energy years ago and paid the kind or rates Ontario is now paying so they could kick start the Industry. As they get more firms interested they lowered the rate a bit at a time. Dalton doesn't win any cigars for being innovative but is simply following a tried and true process. It must be working as Ontario is adding 1500 Mw of green energy this year alone. Have a great day all.
bounder 2/13/2013 7:21:22 AM Report
Dear Dave those towns in Sweden have a little different heating source than here,the heat is thermal from mother nature,once hooked up it's pretty cheap.California does the same for producing energy for electricity,we could do the same for all the windbags on this site,I'll go first.Yeehaw.
Grace 2/13/2013 7:38:32 AM Report
Looks like we made the news again!
"A college in Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., installed a security camera to keep tabs on how long the Tim Hortons lineup is at any time."
right wing 2/13/2013 7:49:24 AM Report
I have, a lot of it.
You should too.
Start with Germany and read what it cost them and continues to for the return.
Windmills, solar, ocean turbines Etc. are no where near to replacing the ever increasing energy needs.
Just wait a couple of more years and see what electricity is going to cost in Ontario...we'll see who is all warm and fuzzy over this overinflated buzz word "green".
everson 2/13/2013 8:00:38 AM Report
Stop complaining right wing allow enterprise to draw the conclusion. If FORD had listened to what a contraption he invented where would be now? Thank Harris for McGuinty.
learningaswego 2/13/2013 8:52:07 AM Report
It's hilarious, really.
Everybody likes "green energy"; but:
a) nobody wants to pay for it (the real cost)
b) nobody wants it set up near them.
skipper dave 2/13/2013 8:59:18 AM Report
Hey Bounder - Methinks your getting confused with Greenland and Sweden. Sweden's back 40 is Identical to ours, that's why I pick them. Apples and Apples. I only wish we had Greenland's naturally occurring thermal wells. Look here at how we can get bamboozled by green paint. If we did nothing else but retool and update our present hydro and yes nuclear facilities we could get another 33% more than our total capacity now. Then we tackle another problem - delivery. In the Sault we are pinched at the Sprague Substation because we are at capacity from here to there. Beyond Sprague the spare capacity is present. I was all in favour of the windmill farm when it went in, until I sat at a friends camp at dusk and found myself starring at a field of red blinking lights. Might as well try to sell me a camp overlooking Pearson international airport based on the view at night. Now I know grump is going to cringe but if you must have mega surplus power then a nuclear generating station is the way to go as long as you are not in danger of tsunamis or earthquakes. Know any place like that?
shakespeare 2/13/2013 9:23:48 AM Report
I, too, have done a lot of reading on this and the experts (even many who were originally rabidly anti-nuclear) say that nuclear is the way to go.
old-cat33 2/13/2013 9:26:03 AM Report
skipper dave: While working on the new Coke Oven in the steel plant a University fella told me that if the Steel Plant was smart they would use the by products of this oven and steam from other mills for heating all the homes on the west end?
Anyway as an old practicing catlick what are ya giving up for lent?..LOL.
For I think I will give up Pepsi. Does lent run seven days a week? Or can you take Sundays off?
learningaswego 2/13/2013 9:30:26 AM Report
Here's an idea...
As NIMBYism is a huge problem in getting ANY new electricity producing technology - green, purple, whatever, approved....
shouldn't the government simply drastically reduce the price of the electricity (delivery charges also) for the people willing to live within a certain radius of the producer (maybe 3 km or something)?
Is this just a simplistic, crazy notion, or....?
Discuss among yourselves.
bounder 2/13/2013 10:52:34 AM Report
Skippy you are correct I was thinking Greenland ,but me fingers punched in Sweden,blonde wife,Sweden,ya know cunfusion,happens lots when she's here.
mallet 2/13/2013 11:22:27 AM Report
I think that would be a great idea as long as the people get a lot more than cheaper power. How about the health hazards and the lower property values after they are put up (wind farms). I wish I had kept the link about the family in the U K whose health deteriorated after a farm was put up in their area. It seemed that at a certain time of day, the sun, blades and blade speed caused a couple of the kids to have siezures, though neither had any form of epilepsy before, and other people in the area also started to have migraine type headaches, when the shadows cast by the turbine blades hit their homes too. I would like to leave you with a link though to a coal fueled power station, look up DRAX UK. this place does send out some CO2 but at the same time generates some 3500MW of power on a continual basis...
Mik 2/13/2013 11:49:55 AM Report
Oldcat: My dad told me years ago that they DID do that... Worked great till the pipes started to corode...
You can probably still find the old ducts here and there...
Wisenheimer 2/13/2013 12:34:18 PM Report
If you believe the current wintry winter we are experiencing, is caused by man made global warming you are a liberal. If you believe hurricanes Katrina and Sandy were caused by MMGW, ditto. The widespread destruction caused by the hurricanes was more from the propensity of certain Americans to build their homes on flood plains.I believe there's a parable about that. 1954 was the year of the "great hurricanes". McGuinty (aka) Obama on steroids, was sold a bill of goods that we all are paying for. Dumping the cheapest electricity on the continent, (from Beck at Niagara)to the U.S. at a loss, to keep wind/solar on line, is nutty. But Liberals are have always excelled at nutty. Prediction, majority Conservative gov't. after Libs/NDP neatly split their vote.
right wing 2/13/2013 12:44:56 PM Report
Ontario not keeping up with nuclear power was a huge mistake.
In three to five years the Ontario Liberals will be hiding out as consumers see what this green energy scam has done to their hydro costs.
Tar and feathering would be a thought.
bino 2/13/2013 1:30:58 PM Report
old-cat33 back in the old days coke oven gas heated quite a few homes in the Sault.If you dig down deep enough around some homes you will find gas piping.
old-cat33 2/13/2013 1:41:38 PM Report
Mik & bino: Yep, I also heard from one of my chums and he said that the oil furnace and coal companies started to complain and therefore Algoma quit selling it's gas to the public??
bino 2/13/2013 1:46:21 PM Report
I can imagine the problems with the coke oven gas.I worked in the coke ovens for 30 years and most of that time was spent replacing gas piping and cleaning them out.
Wisenheimer 2/13/2013 2:01:05 PM Report
When the stores "round up" as a result of getting rid of the penny .. who gets the extra cents ?
All of my grocery receipts from Food Basics and Metro, in the past couple of weeks have "rounded up". Strangest phenomena!
bino 2/13/2013 2:22:20 PM Report
And quite a few prices have gone from .95 to .98
skipper dave 2/13/2013 2:46:24 PM Report
I suggested to the ontario government that I wanted to apply to the solar panel wind turbine buy back program except I wouldn't put up any solar panels or wind turbines but they could install the correct meter and I would return most of my electrical demand and be refunded at the extremely high green rate for a wonderful financial return! That was three months ago and I haven't herd from them since, but I'm certainly getting lots of mail from solar contractors far and wide. Isn't e-mail lists great for the manufacturers?
skipper dave 2/13/2013 3:38:52 PM Report
Musing - All forms of industry or power generation are going to have an impact on our environment. Imagine at one time the area of BayView was actually that! Now you see coal piles, ore pellet piles, backside of the blast furnace and coke ovens, oh yes lest we forget there's a lime plant in there somewhere all affecting the "View of the Bay" Wonder how we would tackle that environmental study today?
Grump 2/13/2013 3:53:37 PM Report
Yes Skipper and Domtar had a tar plant on the corner of Goulais Ave and the Base Line. There was also a large storage tank there for coke oven gas. It was a lovely locale. lol
Grump 2/13/2013 3:55:25 PM Report
Skipper forgot the Lime plant was next to the Brick plant.
mallet 2/13/2013 3:59:30 PM Report
I guess it depends a lot on your point of view, no pun intended. Jobs versus the enviroment, years ago jobs won out, today is a different time and the enviroment has to be taken into account, prehaps more than it should, but for the future generations. I just find it hard to justify spending hundreds of thousands of dollars promoting tourism when you are going to blight the landscape and views with wind and solar farms. If you want to industrialise a rural area then there has to be full time jobs for the local people to do, otherwise what is the advantage for the people who live in the area?? I just see no advantage for people here with regard to all the "green" energy projects, if they are good for the 25 years they say they are, what happens when the market is saturated, What do all these people do then?? Will they be removed or will they just be left to rot where they are, the farms I mean???
skipper dave 2/13/2013 4:09:06 PM Report
Mallett - all the wind farms installed to date will have a short life span your correct. They all can be replaced by one well engineered small by world standards nuclear plant built in Leigh's bay. Probably employ a couple to 500 people with some high paying technical jobs. And finally the steel plant can look at electrical arc furnaces which it can't do now cause the spare capacity in transmission is not there between Sprague and the Sault.
shakespeare 2/13/2013 4:45:06 PM Report
There has been much support over the last few years for a new improved nuclear power potential especially from well-informed environmental groups. The U.K. has heard a lot about it. Swaths of my favourite place, Cornwall (England), have hideous windmills ruining the landscape as does the Black Forest in Germany. The walks where I courted my sweetie are now overlooked by the things. Somebody took notice of all the wrong data. Far from being ahead of his time, McGuinty has been trying to play catch up with a trend that others are now rejecting. Nuke the windmills (expensive, inefficient and ugly) and bring on the safest, cheapest way to create electricity by building a small nuclear plant in mallet's back yard!
mallet 2/13/2013 4:45:56 PM Report
From a personal point of view I have no problem with Nuclear power generation plants. Sure when they go wrong they can cause a lot of trouble, however there have not been that many which has caused a lot of problems, and to the best of my knowledge there has been none in Canada with the Candu Reactors. I know of Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and the Japanese one, but that was also a freak of nature in combination with a tsunami, not exactly an accident, unless you call building it in that area. One of my school buddies went into AEUK, his joke is he glows in the dark, but he has no two headed offspring and cannot remember having a cold or illness in the last few years. Like everything in life there is a chance something will go wrong, but with normal safe guards in place I do not think that Nuclear is anymore dangerous than any other method of generating electricity...
mallet 2/13/2013 4:49:16 PM Report
Give me free power for the cottage for ever and they can build it in my back yard... got a long extension cord I might even give you some!!
shakespeare 2/13/2013 5:37:44 PM Report
I guess many Europeans will be tucking into Romanian carthorse meat lasagna for Valentine's Day. I got wondering, though, about our emotional reaction to food. It is totally irrational. For example, I could never eat snails (yuck!) but I find escargots in garlic butter delicious.
Apparently horsemeat is very nutritious, lower in fat than beef and more easily digestable. So what's the problem? I've heard that fetlock stew is delicious and reports from France say that a rump roast "au cheval" is exquisite. I checked and nowhere in the Sault sells it. I had wanted to surprise my sweetie tomorrow.
shakespeare 2/13/2013 5:39:21 PM Report
On a totally unrelated issue, nanag, I was wondering where your family stables the horses ??
nanag 2/13/2013 6:33:52 PM Report
My daughter has a small barn on her property in Goulais
statusquo 2/13/2013 6:55:18 PM Report
"I got wondering, though, about our emotional reaction to food."
Dogs are delicious. Lean and full of protein..plus.....it would be hilarious to ask the dinner guests if they wanted another "yelping".
shakespeare 2/13/2013 7:09:38 PM Report
Stats: do you think that if your guests were offered Goulash Pferde they would say "neigh"?
nanag 2/13/2013 7:36:02 PM Report
Why the interest in where my "grandhorses" reside?? :)
nanag 2/13/2013 7:49:04 PM Report
You aren't planning a "raid" for your next BBQ are you????? (gasp)
shakespeare 2/13/2013 7:53:08 PM Report
Nothing, nanag, nothing at all ... just interested in their wellbeing! Are they well-fed ... you know good rumps .. for roasting ... I mean for riding!
Have to leave now, as my wife is forcing me to watch Downton Abbey. Don't want to spoil my chances ... I mean let her dowm on the eve of Valentine's Day.
statusquo 2/13/2013 7:57:41 PM Report
Funny you should say that shakes,
Once ago (can I say that?)....anyway, "Once ago" in Lugano, me and my then significant other walked into a rather quaint little hole of a restaurant and got the "special"...."Risotto agli sfilacci di cavallo"...I knew what it was but she didn't!
I ordered for both and told her later. She never forgave me.
nanag 2/13/2013 8:04:05 PM Report
My Grandhorses are not be devoured by meat seeking neanderthals. Shame shame shame
skipper dave 2/13/2013 8:10:12 PM Report
Stats and that's why former significant others never make the cut, no sense of humour. Our whole family enjoyed fresh eel caught by us on their migration runs. You mainlanders had smelt we had eel. Substantially more protein.
nanag 2/13/2013 8:41:33 PM Report
"Once ago" interesting phrasing.. I like it.
I think I am gonna put on my winter woolies and go hunker down with the hosses. I don't trust you guys. Beware fellas.. I am gonna be "armed" with the shit rake and a big pile of road apple ammo
Pink Peony 2/13/2013 9:04:44 PM Report
This just in, "Prime Minister Stephen Harper Will Never Let Canada Become A Safe Haven For Zombies Says John Baird."
statusquo 2/13/2013 9:24:08 PM Report
Quiet right you are. A "sense" of humour is a complicated thing.
Watch what happens if I say...."I never was fond of Jews and Belgians should be interned".
shakespeare 2/13/2013 10:02:20 PM Report
Done with Downton Abbey for tonight. I don't know what everyone sees it it. The plot is ridiculous.
nanag: wish you weren't so un "neigh" bourly.
joewho999 2/13/2013 10:27:42 PM Report
Hi according to soo.mich. haze cam
wwwMWhazecam.netSte.marie.html most of the crap comes from the trucks using the bridge.
Pink Peony 2/14/2013 12:32:10 AM Report
It looks like it's coming from ASC/Essar Steel to me.
Pink Peony 2/14/2013 1:53:59 AM Report
Essar/Algoma Steel thinks that if they blow all their shit out at dusk and in the evening, that that makes a big difference, in pollution. But it doesn't. What do you think we are, idiots? pffft!