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View Room Comments for Friday, Jan. 25 2013

Friday, January 25, 2013   by: The View RoomWelcome to the SooToday.com View Room. This editorial feature is for you to post comments. To comment on a specific news story please post your comment directly under the news story.
Comments
166
Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:05:59 AM Report

Thanks go to atticus for pointing out the similarity between aboriginal and white government.
bounder 1/25/2013 7:21:27 AM Report

Good morning would be the first sentence ,then tea and crumpets,then maybe some mild form of politics,geez..
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:32:41 AM Report

Perhaps I should have thrown in a few quacks.
flyhawk25 1/25/2013 7:38:09 AM Report

Interesting point about 'good morning'.
Perhaps someone can clarify this for me.
Many years ago a friend told me that FN people do not have that term in Obibway.
The explanation he was given was that every day is a good day and it is redundant.
Then recently I saw a movie with our fine Canadian actor Graham Green in which his Lakota character said that they don't have a phrase for 'good bye'.
Before anyone makes a stupid remark about other terms or phrases that do not exist in the FN lexicon - I am asking a serious question.
Any ideas?
flyhawk25 1/25/2013 7:51:44 AM Report

'Ojibway'...my apologies.
skipper dave 1/25/2013 7:54:15 AM Report

Cultural differences - I spent two winters in the far north and came in contact with the cree. Discovered it is very impolite to look the other person in the eye while talking to him. Another cute one was when my friend would come over to visit he would walk in the front door and wait in the foyer till someone in the house noticed him.
bounder 1/25/2013 8:00:58 AM Report

If you get a monthly news letter from the Ojibways,they add quite a few Ojibway words and their meaning, you could also pick one up at the band office.Meegwich is Algonquin.
nanag 1/25/2013 8:16:28 AM Report

Good Morning Kids

I only speak English so I cannot add to the conversation...

Just wanted to say have a great Friday!!!
Budster 1/25/2013 8:25:10 AM Report

The discussion on here for the last couple of weeks just proves my grandfathers theory that there is enough good in the worst of us and enough bad in the best of us that there isn't much difference in any of us. I guess people are just people.
JUSTANOTHERNAME 1/25/2013 8:36:01 AM Report

Resident you want to know what Spence eating at Taco Bell has to do with what she was trying to achieve, fine in the simplest terms here it goes...Anyone who has ever been on a liquid diet for even a week knows you will lose a lot of weight in the first week and yes you will become gaunt after a few weeks, none of which she appears to have become in all of her media coverage leading one to believe she wasn't really taking this whole thing seriously herself. Also she had Elder Robinson participating in this "hunger strike" and yet you never heard anything about him in the news until yesterday saying they were ending this strike. It was also revealed that she went to a hotel in Ottawa throughout the day to visit with family and friends and to rest. Seriously? Yes that makes me think this strike was of utmost importance.

I do think it is sad that anyone contemplated putting themselves in grave danger to raise awareness of serious issues with FN and governement relations however, I think Spence made the whole situation look like a farce. Instead of gaining sympathies for her people and their desperate need she actually deepend the divide. Had any other Chief taken this on they may have garnered more support but Spence just made the whole thing look like a sham.
celest5 1/25/2013 8:44:53 AM Report

Flyhawk25
Baamaapii- baamaa, see you soon, so long or until later, so I`m told.
Could be because Goodbye is forever, that`s what my Ojibway Grandmother use to say to me.

Bounder
They only send out monthly news letters to band members though the mail, but sometimes they have them on hand at the Band Office.
Grace 1/25/2013 8:56:41 AM Report

I see on another story that the PUC and the Ratepayers will be having a public meeting. I think this is a very good idea seeing that I don't think there has ever been a meeting between the citizens and them directly.
New ceo, new idea's!
Good start!
Left Winger 1/25/2013 9:09:19 AM Report

Mino-bow-agut or somethng there abouts is Good morning in Ojibway.

We do not have a word for goodbye because it was understood that if we didn't see each other in this world we would again meet in the spirit world hence no word for goodbye.

We would say Baa maa pii gawaabmin miinwa - Later I will se you again.
Javaman 1/25/2013 9:10:55 AM Report

Methinks until SPENCE tells us where the 104 million was spent..she should be referred to as THIEF SPENCE. Mayor Fords problems regarding money pale in comparison to 104 million. Why is she not arrested and charged with theft?
Resident 1/25/2013 9:45:32 AM Report

JUSTANOTHERNAME: Why isn't that what was said? Apparently she was on intreveinous meds/sustenance in the hospital. I guess the doctor was being overly cautious (I probably would too given the circumstances). I do hope that the meeting(s) will go forward and the people who need it most will be helped. I'm tired of the waste and corruption on all levels (municipal, provincial,federal, business, and native.
bounder 1/25/2013 9:45:41 AM Report

Re: T Spence.The saying is (he who is without fault ,cast the first stone.)
I think all should refrain from passing judgment and wait for the facts to come out as they will sooner or later.
Left Winger 1/25/2013 9:49:49 AM Report

Perhaps it could because Chief Spence has been the Chief for Attawapiskat for only one term (2 years) that she has not been charged. The audit went back to 2005 and did not say when the irregularities showed up

Besides that there is no proof that she misappropriated the funds. The audit said that there were irregular accounting practices i.e. no receipts and not that the monies were stolen.

Again jumping to conclusions before knowing the true details - kinda like talking out of the side of your mouth....
EricThe SHERIFF 1/25/2013 9:50:28 AM Report

Resident

Should have been liposuction.
JUSTANOTHERNAME 1/25/2013 10:03:45 AM Report

I am not without fault but I think the government and media were easily able to help give the "hunger strike" a little spin of their own given the current situation on her reserve. Personally I think to much media was given to her and her faults rather than what her cause actually was. Her camp itself appeared at times not to actually know what their cause was and demands were changing adding fuel to the farce appearance.
Left Winger 1/25/2013 10:11:35 AM Report

Obviously people have not seen what happens when an overweight indivdual loses weight rapidly - their skin hangs due to the loss of body fat.

If all you can comment on is her weight perhaps you need to take a close at yourself in a mirror.

Besides she was dresses for the cold weather with layers of clothing which as all true Canadians know is the way to dress if your are outside in the wintertime.

Sheesh it's hard to fathom the hatred that is spewed on this forum everyday and is allow to remain. Makes me wonder what Sootoday's real stance is and if in someway they are just feeding into the crap by allowing incorrect or misleading informtion to remain i.e. getting tax payers money, free ride etc... More hits = more advertisers I guess
Left Winger 1/25/2013 10:20:51 AM Report

justanothername

I agree with your sentiments that the media spent too much time and effort on her faults and not enough time on the true issues...

IMHO it only served the Harper gang to deflect from the true issues. I've been saying all along that it was Harper's agenda to manipulate the public's opinion in order to divide and conquer main stream Canadians from the Aboriginal issues... and sadly there are sheep amongst us that brought it hook line and sinker.
SandyB 1/25/2013 10:27:47 AM Report

You should not drive an Escalade while kids in your jurisdiction sniff gasoline!

I've been to Attawapiskat, walked and ATV'ed all over the town. Didn't see a single Escalade. Actually only ever saw a couple of 4-wheeled vehicles .. all looking as if they had been through many hard winters. in Attawapiskat you say? yup, hard winters.

statusquo, while the 'all you can eat buffet' remark was supposed to be humourous (i'm guessing here) the last thing anyone in her situation would want to do is gorge. She has been living on water, fish broth and herbal tea for 42 days.. You can all point to those three items nad pooh pooh what they mean all you like.. she still lost weight and is weakened.

IF you owned any type of restaurant Quo.. I'd hope you'd be intelligent enough to practice the 'service' part of 'service industry' and welcome any customers. The one rule that trumps them all is the convenience and comfort of the guest.

I've seen the school portables that couldn't hold back July winds, let alone the frigid arctic air of January. I've seen the shacks and yes, most of the home were shacks.

Do I believe Chief Spence should have done what she did? How would I know? I live in a warm house, that is plenty large enough for my family. I have watermelon in the summer that does not cost me $9 per quarter. I have a great job and can pay my bills (Mostly on time :)) I am not in her situation so I would never presume to judge what to do in that situation.

I'd rather let the powers-that-be work on this. Left or right, no matter. Idle or non-idle, no matter. Humans helping human is all i care about.
Left Winger 1/25/2013 10:35:00 AM Report

Overview of IDLE NOMORE - four native women started the movement in response to the Omnibus bill , which rolled everything (other bills pertaining to First Nations) into one that Harper's government passed on Dec. 14,2012.

The Bills are a direct attack and are part of a "Termination Policy" that threatens to wipe out the Treaty Rights in order to empower the Harper government and big corporations to profit while Frst Nations become disempowered.

All this occured without consultation of the First Nations Leaders. The Bill threatens First Nation's rights and has undermined their automony to participate in legal decision making that affects their ability to make decisions pertaining to their People, and resources.

This Bill breaks the Canadian Constitutional laws and is in direct violation of Articles 18, 19 amd 20 of the signed UN Declaration.
Sam C 1/25/2013 10:44:41 AM Report

Well said, Sandy!

I am reminded of an old and very wise saying:

"Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins."
mallet 1/25/2013 10:55:40 AM Report

Left Winger...

When exactly did these reserves start to become poverty stricken? Was it in the last six years or has it been a gradual decline over the course of many years and governments? You all tend to blame Harper for all your ills, but you have to be honest too and remember that he has only been in a majority position for the last two years, and your savours had ample oppotunity to oust him, but didn't. Now as to these treaties you keep mentioning going back a 150/200 years it seems to me that the F N's have been getting increases every year, otherwise one reserve would not have been getting the 20 million every year as has been done for Attawapiskat. You want the government to honour the treaties, but I would ask of you one question... would that be what was paid in 1850 or would you prefer 2013 money?? I mean if the treaty said the band was to recieve $100.oo per annum would you like the government to just pay that amount.. I think it is time all the Chiefs come together and ask for the treaties to be completely overhauled and brought up todate and stop living in the past...
Canna D. Yenn 1/25/2013 11:12:37 AM Report

Sam: You must have quite a collection of footwear.

Has the Chief garnered satirical comments because she is Indian or because she is a political figure?

There is a huge difference. (No derogatory inference intended)

"Never judge a woman until you’ve driven a kilometer in her Escalade." or

"Never judge a First Nations woman." or

"Never judge."

"Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:9
Left Winger 1/25/2013 11:13:08 AM Report

Mallet

I agree 100% to have a look at the Treaties for an overall/resigning but remember that back in the day when they were signed our people could not read or write the english language and had to depend upon governemnt translators.

We now have our own lawyers who are well versed in english as well as Canadian and International laws. How do you think we have been winning prescedent setting Supreme Court Of Canada court battles with the Federal government?

Do you honestly think we would get screwed over the way we did back then?

As for the level of poverty in our communities I believe the FN's have been chronically underfund from day one as per the ongoing government assimilation policies - both past and present.

FN's received just over half the education funding that is allocated per student in mainstream society. The funding is to be used to cover transportation, supplies, building maintenance and pay teacher salaries.

The governments have learned that it does not pay to have too many smart "Indians" (see above re:winning court battles)
Left Winger 1/25/2013 11:19:38 AM Report

as well mallet

Let's say you purchased your home for $100,000.00, would you expect to receive that amount when you sell it in 25 years?

I would think not..

just as the price/value of lumber, iron ore, copper, gold, oil etc. has not remain the same as it was 150/200 years ago, why should what the FN's are compensated remain the same?
skipper dave 1/25/2013 11:20:38 AM Report

As Red Ryder would say, let's hear from the collective wisdom from the room. Couple of weeks ago I was startled at the number of citizens who do the after ski brewskies then drive themselves and their young families back to town after dark. Now my spouse and I find a good friend who has offered to take my step kids along with his own to the hill. Trouble is he comes back a half hour early and has a beer till the kids are ready to go. My wife and I are adamant about the don't drink and drive. We are both balking at discussing the issue with our friend. Is he a pickle, I don't think so. Are we overreacting? Any thoughts?
mallet 1/25/2013 11:20:39 AM Report

Skipper Dave...

If you interested about a real nice boat, go to "eveningnews.24.co.uk" and there is a story there about a boat yard that has just started building broads cruisers again, click on the story and then click on the picture... They were not that nice 40 years ago when I worked on them...
Left Winger 1/25/2013 11:23:28 AM Report

oops I better be careful and comment on other news items before my resident watchdog posts that all I blog about is first nation issues and starts to complain to the moderators...

so, What do you think about the recent cold snap we're going through? does it truy reflect global warming?

there are you happy now JC?
mallet 1/25/2013 11:25:29 AM Report

Skipper Dave..

Would you trust a school bus driver who has a few while waiting to pick up the kids at school, just to keep the cold out?? No, didnt think so, I havent travelled the Searchmont Hiway for a while but I sure would not want to have my senses impaired in anyway. I know I am overcautious with alcohol products as far a driving is concerned, but rather safe than sorry!
SandyB 1/25/2013 11:31:09 AM Report

Dave .. ask that question after he has rolled the car that holds your children.

then the 'what if's'
the 'should have's'
the 'why didn't i?'s'

They are your children, your job to keep them safe. If it hurts your friends feelings, so be it.

There is no reason he can't have pop or juice while he waits. Not sure what your definition of a 'pickle' is... but if he cannot chose something aside from booze.. then yes he has a problem.

Some battles (as you very well know) are forced upon us. Some we must choose to fight.

Sorry.. on my soapbox about this subject. Have loved too many who have lost sons and daughters to impaired driving. To me, not worth the chance.
redranger 1/25/2013 11:34:54 AM Report

Dave
You know the answer. Go with your brain this time not your heart. Hurting a friend's feelings pales in comparison to seeing one's children hurt
Left Winger 1/25/2013 11:38:41 AM Report

is it just one beer or is he consuming more than that?
Big Bad Bob 1/25/2013 11:39:09 AM Report

Flyhawk has touched upon a very interesting point concerning languages in general, which all have their individual “quirks.” I don’t know any NF languages but I have been told that before encountering the white man, the Apaches had no word for a lie or lying, an act foreign to their culture. In German it is somewhat problematic to accost someone in the street whom you don’t know personally. Let’s say you’re a stranger in town and you want to ask for directions. In English you would probably say “Pardon me , Sir or Madam...,” in French you would probably say “Pardonnez-moi, Monsieur or Madame..., ” but in German there is a strange uneasiness in such a situation which has no bearing on the kindness or helpfulness of people in general. There simply doesn’t seem to be an established formula for handling it. In another vein, a boat doesn’t float in German, it swims like the rest of us. In Laotian and Thai the word “kin” means both “eat” and “drink,“ for there is only that one word for both acts. I could go on, but I hope I have already made my point sufficiently.
cathyh 1/25/2013 11:46:04 AM Report

IMHO The Indian Act is pure racist.

Prime Minister Harper cannot change it singularly but he could have shown some leadership by meeting with Chief Spence.
Mr. Harper has never even mentioned the protest by Chief Spence and the other 2 who fasted alongside her.

The accounting practices according to the auditor were lacking in practice but that does not mean that the money was "stolen" as some on this site have suggested.

The idle no more movement which was started by 4 women out west is bringing to the forefront what Harper & his govt tried to hide in bill c45 and that bill impacts all of us not just natives.

Left Winger 1/25/2013 11:51:47 AM Report

The Lakota/Sioux people have a word for "whiteman" which is Waa se chew which means stealers of food.

It would seem that the Lakota/Sioux would have caches of food along their migratory routes that where found by Louis and Clark on their trek to the Pacific and taken by them hence "the stealers of food" title. As well as the settlers who followed that took the food
skipper dave 1/25/2013 11:52:06 AM Report

thanks folks for pointing out it's a no brainer. I'm thinking the man's highly educated, intelligent and what he's doing is legal - My wife fell off her chair, I said what's so funny - She said you were a highly educated extremely intelligent souse! Still a pickle Red Ranger, can't go back to being a cucumber. What's the old adage better to lose a friend than loose a life.
Javaman 1/25/2013 11:56:55 AM Report

Why should Harper shoulder all the blame for the bad blood between the natives and the rest of the people of Canada? Unless I am mistaken the LIBERALS did nothing to come up with a solution to what is a major problem.
skipper dave 1/25/2013 11:59:09 AM Report

Funny time - White people have paintings of great First Nations war Chiefs hanging in their living rooms. Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Geronimo etc. Who has the place of Honour in our First Nations brother and sisters homes? Garge Dubya, Stanfield, Laurier or the most famous Diefenbaker?
mallet 1/25/2013 12:02:43 PM Report

Left Winger...

But, is that what the treaties say, I keep hearing that the F N's want exactly what the treaties said when they were signed in 1850 or when ever. I do not think the word "Indexed" as far as increases were concerned is anywhere in those treaties or anything to say that there should be an allowance for "inflation" or devalue of the dollar or pound in todays money. Unfortunately this is where the disagrements come in, you want what was promised in bygone times but you want it in todays ways and means and the two just do not match up. This is why I say the treaties and various acts need to be overhauled and brought up to the 21st century standards. Why all F N's people do not want this I do not know, but it seems a lot still want to cling to something that does not meet modern standards..
Christina216 1/25/2013 12:04:15 PM Report

baa-ma-pii-gi-wa-min means goodbye in ojibway.
skipper dave 1/25/2013 12:28:51 PM Report

Mallett - Well founded, simple, clean lines but no big stick. Seriously I have been tempted to do a two week (fortnight) rental on a canal boat. In my misspent yute did the rental houseboat package on the trent severn. Three families, three skids of beer and boxes and boxes of weenies. Convinced the kids they were gourmet chefs, bbq dogs, if you burnt them you used the results for bait. Can you eat sunfish?
skipper dave 1/25/2013 12:52:44 PM Report

Sailing Terms Who Says that Sailers can't have any Fun!
Amidships-Condition of being surrounded by boats.
Anchor-A device designed to bring up mud samples from the bottom at inopportune or unexpected times.
Anchor Light- A small light used to discharge the battery before daylight.
Bare Boat- Clothing Optional.
Beam Sea - A situation in which waves strike a boat from the side, causing it to roll unpleasantly. This is one of the four directions from which wave action tends to produce extreme physical discomfort. The other three are ‘bow sea’ (waves striking from the front), ‘following sea’ (waves striking from the rear), and ‘quarter sea’ (waves striking from any other direction).
Berth-A little addition to the crew.
Boat Ownership - Standing fully-clothed under a cold shower, tearing up 100-dollar bills
Boom-Sometimes the result of a surprise jibe.
Boom-Called boom for the sound that’s made when it hits crew in the head on its way across the boat. For slow crew, it’s called ‘boom, boom.’
Bottom Paint-What you get when the cockpit seats are freshly painted.
Calm Sea- condition characterized by the simultaneous disappearance of the wind and the last cold beverage.
Chart -A type of map which tells you exactly where you are aground.
Clew-An indication from the skipper as to what he might do next.
Companionway-A double berth.
Course- The direction in which a skipper wishes to steer his boat and from which the wind is blowing. Also, the language that results by not being able to.
Cruising- Fixing your boat in exotic locations.
Crew - Heavy, stationary objects used on shipboard to hold down charts, anchor cushions in place and dampen sudden movements of the boom.
Current-Tidal flow that carries a boat away from its desire destination, or towards a hazard
Dead Reckoning -A course leading directly to a reef.
Deadrise-Getting up to check the anchor at 0300.
Deviation-Any departure from the Captain’s orders.
Dinghy-The sound of the ship’s bell.
Displacement-When you dock your boat and can’t find it later.
Estimated Position-A place you have marked on the chart where you are sure you are not.
First Mate Crew- member necessary for skippers to practice shouting instructions to.
Flashlight -Tubular metal container used on shipboard for storing dead batteries prior to their disposal
Fluke-The portion of an anchor that digs securely into the bottom, holding the boat in place; also, any occasion when this occurs on the first try.
Foul Wind-Breeze produced by flying turkey.
Freeboard -Food and liquor supplied by the owner.
Gybe -A common way to get unruly guests off your boat.
Headway-What you are making if you can’t get the toilet to work.
Head up-Leaving the boat toilet seat up. When boat skipper is female, leaving the head up is a serious offense
Heave-Ho -What you do when you’ve eaten too much Ho.
Jack Lines-‘Hey baby, want to go sailing?’
Jibe -Either you like it or you don’t and it gets you.
Keel -Term used by 1st mate after too much heel by skipper.
Ketch-A sailboat with good wine in the cabin
Landlubber-Anyone on board who wishes he were not.
Latitude-The number of degrees off course allowed a guest.
Mast-Religious ritual used before setting sail.
Mizzen-An object you can’t find.
Motor Sailer-A sailboat that alternates between sail/rigging problems and engine problems, and with some booze in the cabin
Noserly-What to call the wind direction when it comes from where you’re going
Ram-An intricate docking maneuver sometimes used by experienced skippers.
Rhumb Line-Two or more crew members waiting for a drink.
Sailing -The fine art of getting wet and becoming ill, while going nowhere slowly at great expense.
Schooner-A sailboat with a fully stocked liquor cabinet in the cabin.
Sheet -Cool, damp, salty night covering.
Shroud-Equipment used in connection with a wake.
Starboard-Special board used by skippers for navigation (usually with “Port” on the opposite side.)
Swell -A wave that’s just great.
Square Rigger-A rigger over 30.
Sloop-A sailboat with beer and/or wine in the cabin.
Tack -A maneuver the skipper uses when telling the crew what they did wrong without getting them mad.
Yawl-A sailboat from Texas, with some good bourbon stored down yonder in the cabin.
Zephyr-Warm, pleasant breeze. Named after the mythical Greek god of wishful thinking, false hopes, and unreliable forecasts.
Nunavut 1/25/2013 12:54:57 PM Report

One has to be amused at the hypocrisy of Leftwingers complaining about the hate or racism on Sootoday, when Leftwinger's posts are filled with blatant hateful terms in regard to our duly elected Prime Minister and even outright lies and assumptions on what our Prime Ministers goals for Canada’s people (aboriginal and the rest of us).
Yet Leftwinger will be outright silent on the reverse racism seen on these threads against anyone that dares question the accountability of aboriginal leaders or the racism that roadblocks and protests impose on innocent Canadians trying to do their job (drive a truck) or get to and from work, or attend doctors appointments or down town appointments etc etc.
Enough of the hypocrisy Leftwinger!
Wicket 1/25/2013 1:01:26 PM Report

Another news release regarding the SSM Innovation Centre and a new hire.
Gotta love all these "new buzz words" that are totally ambiguous to the general public whose money is funding these "make work" jobs (as I see it anyway).
What is:
- an innovation centre
- business incubator
- convergence centre

I know that it was explained the other day about the business incubator. What does it mean, why does a new business need one, why can't people just open up their own business as was done in the past and the likes of which built this country?

I worked at ASC for years and people who, for one reason or another, were not able to be terminated were put onto "make-work" jobs. They pushed a lot of paper around, looked good, meant nothing and no one much looked at what they did.

Seems to me that this is blatantly being done in our face - how many people are employed at the Innovation Centre - where does their funding come from? Would like some public input on here before I start making phone calls.
Javaman 1/25/2013 1:04:45 PM Report

Anyone heard??? Did Rob Ford win or lose this morning??
Wicket 1/25/2013 1:22:07 PM Report

Rob Ford won
Javaman 1/25/2013 1:25:21 PM Report

One would think the local news media would cover the Ford event...Too busy?
Just Curious 1/25/2013 1:26:03 PM Report

Sorry to disappoint you,Left Winger,but I was out making myself useful,which I am sure is a term you're not used too.:) It made no difference anyway as I see several others have taken you to task.Not feeling the best lately and have come to accept the fact(which you apperently haven't)that no matter which side of the fence you are on on here,it ain't gonna make no never mind to anyone who matters anyway...

Skipper; not even a swimmer,let alone a sailor but that was funny...:)LOL.
Just Curious 1/25/2013 1:32:42 PM Report

Wicket,in light of what else that has been allowed lately,GOOD for Rob Ford..

As to the innovation thing,It's a make-work project for friends of friends with a little pull and city funding. I fully agree with you,if you want to start a business,get off your a$$ and start it,don't ask somebody else to guarantee it for you.
bounder 1/25/2013 1:44:07 PM Report

Rob winning is not news worthy,getting his butt kicked was,sad but there it is,scandals,bad boys news,smut,sully stories,murders,they make news,so sad.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 1:45:07 PM Report

Skipper, Mrs. Spellchecker and I enjoyed your sailing definitions. I especially concurred with the ones for course and fluke.
Left Winger 1/25/2013 1:54:25 PM Report

Mallet - for your reading pleasure. an excerpt from the Robinsn Huron treaty -

The actual remuneration for the lands, although it included the use of annuities which by 1850 had been in place for over three decades, was unique in several ways. Each group of Indians received an initial sum of £2000. An annuity of £500 was to follow each year. And for the first time, these sums were to be paid in cash [Note 44]. As in some previous arrangements, the annuities would decrease with a decline in population. In this case the crucial figure was two-thirds of the population at which point the annuity would be reduced proportionately. But if the sale of lands surrendered produced a greater than expected return, the annuities might be increased at the Crown's pleasure

http://tinyurl.com/agswegn

notgettingit - if expressing my opinion of the current government is racist than so be it.
Funny how others on here can run down other governments ie USA president Obama their just voicing their opinion and that's okay. But how dare I speak against Harper and his gang of thugs it becomes racist and how dare that indian say those things about my hero...what a piece of work you are.

Enough of the hypocrisy nunavut!

JC - no one has taken me to task as you put it, it's been a rather pleasant exchange of ideas and opinions with none of the usual BS except as always for the no brainer noneofit
Left Winger 1/25/2013 2:27:25 PM Report

Hatred - noun
the feeling of one who hates; intense dislike or extreme aversion or hostility.
Synonyms
animosity, detestation, loathing, abomination.

Racism - noun

1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

hope this clarifies the difference between the two words
Nunavut 1/25/2013 2:29:40 PM Report

leftwinger you left out this section:

The 1850 Robinson Huron Treaty and the 1850 Robinson Superior Treaty in northern Ontario both say the ......"Tribes or Bands, do hereby fully, freely, and voluntarily surrender, cede, grant, and convey unto Her Majesty, her heirs and successors for ever, all their right, title, and interest to, and in the whole of, the territory above described, save and except the reservations set forth in the schedule hereunto annexed".

FOR THOSE NOT AWARE CEDE MEANS SURRENDER ! Further more the treaties state “
“The Ojibway,Cree and other chiefs and headmen on their own behalf of all Indians whom they represent,do hereby solemnly promise and engage to strict observe this treaty,and also to conduct themselves as good loyal subjects of His Majesty the King.”
“They promise and engage that they will in all respects ,obey and abide by the law;that they will maintain peace between each other and between themselves and others of His majesty's subjects,whether Indians,half-breeds or whites,this year inhabiting and here after to inhabit part of said ceded territory; and they will not molest the person or property of any inhabitant of such ceded tract,or any other district or country,or interfere with any or trouble any person passing or traveling through said tract,or any part thereof, and that they will assist the officers of his Majesty in bringing to justice and punishment any Indian offending against the stipulations of this treaty,or infringing the law in force in the country so ceded.”

And as to whether the natives understood or were taken advantage of , the History books show that it was not Government translators, it was native trusted white religious padres that helped translate. One only needs to trace the trade of beaver pelts to see that even at todays rate of $60 per pelt , at todays rate that would buy you a couple of steel hatchets and a pot or pan. the same as what was traded 300 years ago . So they were not easily taken advantage of ! They were wise enough to trade carefully at good rates. They just wanted to hold on to the hunting and fishing of the ceded lands.... and they have to this day and forward.

Left Winger 1/25/2013 2:44:54 PM Report

noneofit

if you can pick and chose what sections of the treaty you post then so can I.

you and rotten ronny have been posting the same selected sections for weeks now because it serves your warped interpetations.

Always remember that the written word can be interpreted according to everyone's own world view or life experience. There will always be two interpretations to the treaties - Governments and Aboriginal interpretations
Just Curious 1/25/2013 2:58:12 PM Report

.
Left winger: no hatred or racism,got friends on both sides of the fence,just like to keep things stirred up.As too your last post,everybody interprets things differently. I, personally think that the indians and the government need to tear up the indian act and start treating everyone the same,red,white black,indigo,purple,or whatever. The only reason the indians in Canada weren't defeated is because they realized they were fighting a losing battle and decided to negotiate instead.That is something the Indians today should give some consideration too,instead of screwing with Joe Average Canadian. Hell, I might even vote for an Indian PM...
AceOfBass 1/25/2013 3:03:27 PM Report

Chief Spence needs to read Treaty 9

which her people signed in 1930.para 5 states;the said Indians do hereby cede( surrender title to)release(discharge from responsibility) surrender and yield up to the government of the Dominion of Canada,for His majesty the King and His successors for ever all their rights and privileges whatsoever.


Yes we need to have better communications with our fellow Canadians.

Like the rest of our municipalities these communities need to be more accountable open and transparent to the people.

Left Winger 1/25/2013 3:08:37 PM Report

JC

again i agree in principle to ratifying the treaties.

but you are still wrong when you say natives were losing the battle. There is no recorded history of there ever been a war here in Canada between the Natives and the then British government.

In fact the Royal Proclamation came about because of the unscruplous dealings of some "white" business people

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 was issued October 7, 1763, by King George III following Great Britain's acquisition of French territory in North America after the end of the French and Indian War/Seven Years' War, in which it forbade settlers from settling past a line drawn along the Appalachian Mountains. The purpose of the proclamation was to organize Great Britain's new North American empire and to stabilize relations with Native North Americans through regulation of trade, settlement, and land purchases on the western frontier. The Royal Proclamation continues to be of legal importance to First Nations in Canada and is significant for the variation of indigenous status in the United States. It also ensured that British culture and laws were applied in Quebec, which was done to attract British settlers to Quebec.[1]
Left Winger 1/25/2013 3:20:41 PM Report

Source - http://tinyurl.com/m483ju

you may find the fourth paragraph to be of interest

Canadian Aboriginals

For more details on Canadian Aboriginal legacy, see The Canadian Crown and Aboriginal peoples.

The Royal Proclamation continued to govern the cession of aboriginal land in British North America, especially Upper Canada and Rupert's Land. The proclamation forms the basis of land claims of aboriginal peoples in Canada – First Nations, Inuit, and Métis. The Royal Proclamation of 1763 is thus mentioned in section 25 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

According to historian Colin Calloway, "scholars disagree on whether the proclamation recognized or undermined tribal sovereignty".[4] The language of the proclamation made it clear that the British still believed that all native lands ultimately belonged to the Crown. However, the proclamation established the important precedent that the indigenous population had certain rights to the lands they occupied—in the past, by contrast, the Crown had granted lands without regard to native claims.

Some see the Royal Proclamation of 1763 as a “fundamental document” for First Nations land claims and self-government.[5] It is “the first legal recognition by the British Crown of Aboriginal rights.”[6] The intent and promises made to the native in the Proclamation have been argued to be of a temporary nature, only meant to appease the Native peoples who were becoming increasingly resentful of “settler encroachments on their lands”[7] and were capable of becoming a serious threat to British colonial settlement.[8][9] While advising the Board of Trade on August 30, 1764, Sir William Johnson expressed that

The Indians all know we cannot be a Match for them in the midst of an extensive woody Country...from whence I infer that if we are determined to possess Our Posts, Trade & ca securely, it cannot be done for a Century by any other means than that of purchasing the favour of the numerous Indian inhabitants.[10]

With the proclamation, “the British were trying to convince Native people that there was nothing to fear from the colonists, while at the same time trying to increase political and economic power relative to First Nations and other European powers.”[11] However, the Royal Proclamation along with the subsequent Treaty of Niagara, provide for an argument that “discredits the claims of the Crown to exercise sovereignty over First Nations”[12] and affirms Aboriginal “powers of self-determination in, among other things, allocating lands.”[13] Further so, the Royal Proclamation outlined a policy in which to protect and extinguish Aboriginal rights and in doing so, recognized these rights existed.
Grace 1/25/2013 3:21:17 PM Report

For Right Wing.
Obama presses liberal agenda as he starts 2nd term

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-presses-liberal-agenda-starts-2nd-term-194514883--politics.html
Nunavut 1/25/2013 3:23:25 PM Report

Leftwinger it is pretty hard to miss understand words like fully, freely, and voluntarily surrender, cede, grant, and convey unto Her Majesty, her heirs and successors for ever, all their right, title, and interest to, and in the whole of, the territory above described,

I guess the trusted padre translated it to mean, just a little bit , with gun to your back , rent not sell , for just a short while, only some of the rights, of the area described in the map.

But you and I both know that the treaty covering this Sault area is very very clear. Claiming “we understood it differently" would be like me telling the buyer of my farm that , I misunderstood the real estate sell paperwork I thought I still get to live in the bedroom and use the kitchen and bathroom and barn and get part of your income from the farm too.
Just Curious 1/25/2013 3:25:03 PM Report

That's your take on it,LW and more power to you. like I said,bitch on here all you want,run for Sayers job and maybe someone will pay attention to you.

Sootoday; Where is your coverage on the Rob Ford thing? It's not a native issue so there should have been no problem posting it,everyone else has...:)
Just Curious 1/25/2013 3:40:32 PM Report

Don't matter how anyone wants to slice it,these treaties are a couple of hundred years out of date. Make up your minds if you want them to stand as written or re-negotiate,don't try to play both games.By the way,I have to think that some of these smart indian lawyers must have survived the terrible school system everyone bitches about so it couldn't have been all bad.Heck,it was a boarding school,plain and simple...OK,cover your heads,,,here it comes...LOL
Left Winger 1/25/2013 3:49:44 PM Report

No one is saying that our ancestors did not know what they were doing but there have been violations of the treaty on part of the governemnt from day one of the signing.

You state -

"They just wanted to hold on to the hunting and fishing of the ceded lands.... and they have to this day and forward"

Can you than tell me why we are still harassed on our traditional territory by the MNR - there was a supreme court of canada decision back in the late 70's that said we had the right to fish commercially as we had done for eons but our fisherman still get harassed.

Our commercial fishermen represent less than 1% of the commercial fisheries yet the MNR tells the public we are the ones responsible for the depletion of the fish stock

I personally have been harassed in our traditional territory for moose hunting and no I did not take more then what I needed. I was actually on the hunt without any game and still got harassed and threaten by the CO. AS well when cutting fire wood for my own use threaten with a fine and court appearance.

Why is there an ongoing court battle with the MNR over our use of traditional use of the Garguantua harbour?

As you can see there are issues on both sides. So your repeated thumping of the treaty and the swearing to obey that old woman in england who sold our ancestors out goes no where.
Left Winger 1/25/2013 4:04:36 PM Report

well i've spent my only day off here having fun now to get some things done around the house.

take care all it's been a blast.
Left Winger 1/25/2013 4:05:25 PM Report

ooops, almost missed it ....niner
mallet 1/25/2013 4:19:36 PM Report

Left Wing...

Your words, not mine..

But if the sale of lands surrendered, produced a greater than expected return, the annuities MIGHT be INCREASED at the CROWNS PLEASURE!!

Now, do you know what "AT THE CROWNS PLEASURE" means, because you may not necessarily like the exact legal meaning of that phrase. Legally speaking due to the wording of that it means that every group/band is entitled to $500 a year, does not specify an indiviual, just a group. So would you not say that the Attawapiskat reserve has been getting a lot more than $500 a year?? Debeers has a mine and is contributing to that reserve, plus what the Federal government has been contributing for years way in excess of the value of the land up there??

This is why I say that the Acts concerning the F N peoples need to be overhauled and brought up todate. However saying that it has to be a general concensus of the F N's and applies to all, bands/reserves cannot opt out of a new agreement it has to be representative of all across the country, otherwise you end up with a hodgepodge of situations like you have today..
right wing 1/25/2013 4:40:12 PM Report

Grace

The U.S. deserves all it is going to get, disaster/more debt, as they voted him back.
Poor frigging America.
Nunavut 1/25/2013 4:52:04 PM Report

Leftwinger I would have no problem backing you fully re your hunting and fishing grievances you mentioned, I too hate being hasselled when I have done nothing wrong (like wanting to drive on hwy 17) So I appreciate your concern re the MNR......BUT those things are being won in courts when natives challenge them.....and cause provincial government to direct MNR differently. But optics also comes into play, abandoned nets and abandoned meat in bush etc make MNR be extra dilgent. More successful natives educated to become MNR officers would help.Now that Chief Spence brought attention on herself the optics also brought into attention her and other chiefs missmanagement of band, Gull Lake was another added to list yesterday....until those no longer become so common place the optics cause many Canadians to ask and demand more clarity before proceeding to give our carte blanche support.What is native blood to get these hunting rights has come into question now that metis are winning supreme court cases last month. We all want natives to have same education funding as us, same opportunities with same personal impetus to achieve those goals.Same home ownership rights , divorce rights etc etc.
Grump 1/25/2013 4:52:46 PM Report

Good day everyone just back from my latest little jaunt. Read all the lame excuses for Chief Spence. No 1 if she was not Native she would have been charged by now as anyone else would be. Have a good look at the picture of her taken Jan 11'th and look at her face. If she was loosing weight her face would thin up first and hers is still porked way out. She made a bad joke out of what could have been a good start to fixing many First Nation problems. All you excuse makers prove by your support is that as with her you are desperate. Have a great evening all.
Just Curious 1/25/2013 4:53:54 PM Report

LWer,glad you get a day off. Being retired I never gat a day off.(damn I miss them).listen, anyone can Google anything they want to back up whatever they want(right wing comes to mind,the worlds fastest googler,not sure I would want the title)but in the end,life will go on and we will continue to disagree but I think we probably have mutual friends and when I come home in the Spring(if you haven't been hung yet)maybe we will go for a coffee at Timmies(another invention of the white man)And have a laugh over all this crap....In the meantime,battle on my friend,just stay away from that fish broth diet,you are already full of .......:)One cyber foe to another...LOL
shakespeare 1/25/2013 5:00:35 PM Report

The U.S. economy will make gains this year and Obama will be seen in a better light, although it will actually have little to do with him that it bounces back.

I was talking to a taxi driver, an educated and articulate long-time immigrant from Haiti, in the U.S. a few days ago who was telling us that his granddaughter had been involved in an accident and the doctors would not even look at her until he paid up $950. He said that he and his wife cannot afford healthcare and so if they get sick or injured, they have nothing. He said that Obamacare will help them. Damn Liberals!
Wicket 1/25/2013 5:03:19 PM Report

Read Page A6 of today's Sault Star, native insight by one who has literally paid the price by his stand against injustice, but is now trying a new method legally. He does not support Chief Spence...
shakespeare 1/25/2013 5:05:57 PM Report

Grump: is that your unsubtle way of suggesting that something smells a little fishy about Chief Spence's diet?
right wing 1/25/2013 5:06:54 PM Report

...and if you asked him he probably believes Obama will fill up his gas tank in his cab for free also.
Of course you straightened him out by informing him of how wonderful our "free" health care system is doing.
No problems on the horizon there....

...a cab driver.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 5:13:54 PM Report

... a plumber!
right wing 1/25/2013 5:16:38 PM Report

The "free train" is about to slam head on into a wall.
When it does the wailing and carrying on would be hilarious if pathetic did not already take a front seat.
It won't be a big deal for those that have always provided for themselves.
You'll recognize those that never have, the look of shock, like a scene from the walking dead.
right wing 1/25/2013 5:18:53 PM Report

...a shakespeare wannabe.
Oldie Goldie 1/25/2013 5:24:42 PM Report

Right Wing---do you remember Harper's promises to change the way Senators get to the Senate ?

He has already appointed enough Conervative friends to have a majority in the Senate---To-day he appointed 5 more of his Conservative friends to the Senate.

So much for Harper's Campaigning to change the Senate and the way they get there.

Harper is just another ordinary lying Politician---no better than any of the others.
right wing 1/25/2013 5:31:08 PM Report

Do you remember the red book that Chretien held in the air yelling "I have da' plan"....the pages were blank.
Just Curious 1/25/2013 5:31:37 PM Report

rw,don't be putting down a cab driver,you arrogant ass,not every one can work in their chosen field. I probably have as many ,if not more tickets than you do but for reasons beyond my control can't work at them. I have driven cab for a couple of years and it was a rewarding experience,and the man you are be-littling could very well have a degree in his own country. Cast ye not the first stone...Damn,what an attitude from someone who preaches fairness from high on the mount....
shakespeare 1/25/2013 5:34:03 PM Report

rw: I just hope that when you or a family member goes to the doctor, needs surgery etc. you insist on paying in cash for the services you get and don't accept the care we get through our taxes, cos even to a lowly taxi driver in the U.S. that would seem to be a tad hypocritical.
right wing 1/25/2013 5:35:26 PM Report

Just Curious

Slow down when you drive, you won't get so many tickets.
right wing 1/25/2013 5:36:52 PM Report

The Conservatives now hold 65 of the 105 available Senate seats. The rest include 36 Liberals, one Progressive Conservative, two independents and one vacancy.
Excellent.
Now we just have to work on getting rid of all those Liberal suck ass judges.
right wing 1/25/2013 5:42:26 PM Report

"shakespeare"

Noting hypocritical about it.
The U.S. is about to learn what we in Canada are already learning...it is not free and we all pay a fee on top of what our taxes already pay.
This is just the start.
OHIP cannot afford to continue with the "statusquo" and everybody knows it.
User fees will continue to work their way into the system.
Folks with runny noses and a sore back won't be so quick to run on down to "emergency" now will they.
Obamacare...dream on.
Just Curious 1/25/2013 5:51:28 PM Report

Don't try to sluff it off ,rw. I agree with your take on a lot of stuff on here but your comment"a cab driver" was a bit much. Not every one in the world can be a "plumber".Stop looking down on those that don't show "butt crack". I worked driving cab with some people who had retired from Agony Steel and they got more out of life driving cab for a year than 30 years at the plant. You should try it,it's a real learning experience..
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 5:56:18 PM Report

Shakey, I believe right wing, as well as the rest of us taxpayers, have already contributed plenty toward any "free" health care we may require. We shouldn't be expected to pay again for something we have already paid for even if we are of a conservative bent.
right wing 1/25/2013 5:59:00 PM Report

Relax J.C., you read way to much into a comment at times.
I wasn't born yesterday and lets be real, cab drivers can be the biggest bunch of bullshitters you'll ever run across.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:10:47 PM Report

I'd like to have every Liberal in Ontario join hands.
Shouldn't be a problem since Libs love doing that kind of warm fuzzy feeling type of stuff.
Do you know how to to tell who is going to be a Liberal when they are toddlers.
They are the ones that resist potty training as they love that feeling of warm shit in their pants....carries on into adulthood.
...anyways, Liberals join hands, start swaying side to side while you sing Kumbaya.

Feel good, great!

Now I'd like to hook them up to the grid, turn on the power, and fry the whole bunch of the F&^kers.
Think we have problems with the cost of power now...just you wait folks.
Ontario is in for hard times due to all this "GREEN" power.
Manufactures will be packing up and moving.
Ontario is going to be on the hook for BLLIONS and all for what...nothing, zip.
But hey...we get to feel good that we are "saving the planet".
This same bunch has the audacity to criticize Harper for running up a deficit.


Read it if you dare.

http://tinyurl.com/art67za

Thanks McGuinty you ass and thanks to the teachers union for being instrumental in getting this goof re-elected.
You do reap what you sow!
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:13:14 PM Report

PSA test - $35
HRT eye test annually - $100
shingles shot - $200

to mention a few items in our "free" health care.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:16:59 PM Report

Spellchecker

Obamacare will be different...just ask the cab driver, it will be free.
Hahahahahaha.....
flyhawk25 1/25/2013 6:17:25 PM Report

Or plumbers...
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:19:25 PM Report

They don't even pretend it's free. They just expect everyone to get health insurance and they don't care who has to pay for it.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:21:41 PM Report

That's just the start of it though. They're working their was toward the "free" stuff. The way their king is advancing his agenda in his second term it shouldn't be too far off. Like you said rw, poor frigged America.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:25:54 PM Report

Spellchecker

I've had to educate some our U.S. neighbours.
They actually do believe that health care in Canada is free.
Too many Michael Moore bullshit movies.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:28:01 PM Report

They can't afford to pay the bills they have now and yet they have sent 4 fighter jets to Egypt and are sending 16 more so they can more effectively hassle the only democracy in the middle east.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:31:05 PM Report

When I was watching Hillary yesterday her bobbing head reminded me of a little plastic dog I had in the back window of my car when I was a young fellow.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:32:34 PM Report

Not to worry Spelly...John "I voted for the war but then I voted against it" Kerry is going to straighten it all out.
Nobody can toss undeserved war medals farther than him.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 6:35:07 PM Report

Spelly: I think you missed my point. I agree we pay and most of us are happy to do so. I think most Americans would be happy to do so, too. I think that a lot of the "haves" are not sufficiently inclined to support the "have nots" and therein lies the danger for the Americans. If one studies mankind's evolution, it is the competition but also the social sense of community especially in terms of science and medicine that has moved us forward.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 6:37:34 PM Report

"you're getting too excited, Spelly ... "working their WAS" ??
You and right wing are a good cheering section for each other but you are wrong ... and will be proven so, soon!!
right wing 1/25/2013 6:38:11 PM Report

What a bunch of Liberal horseshit..."the have's" not supporting the "have nots".

Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:39:26 PM Report

I think I got your point quite clearly. You thought right wing should be happy to pay for something that he had already, at least in part, paid for.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:41:25 PM Report

You're right shakey. I tried to get that in a little too quickly. However, I'm surprised you didn't mention my earlier 'have' that should have been 'has'. I managed to slip that one by I guess.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:42:29 PM Report

Spellchecker remember, four of those F-16 fighter jets that left the U.S. for Egypt are part of a foreign aid package
It should have been scrapped when Egypt elected a president who has called President Obama a liar and urged that hatred of Jews be instilled in children but Obama doesn't want to rock the boat.
...all we are saying...is give peace a chance.
Come on Liberal brothers and sisters, sing it.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 6:42:34 PM Report

"horseshit" maybe, rw, but you really need to do a little historical research. It is the dynamic of mankind from the beginning. To deny this is ... well let's say, "trite" .
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:43:18 PM Report

It's time the RIGHT ones got a mutual admiration society going in here. You lefties have had a monopoly on it lately.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:46:16 PM Report

That's O.K. Spelly...the lefties enjoy their daily circle jerk.
Every once in a while we do have to let them know some of the painful truth...otherwise they would continue to live in their "Phallus in Wonderland.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:47:32 PM Report

Not that we require a crutch but the "free" health care thing always tends to raise the ire in me.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:48:42 PM Report

Deny this shakey...20% of the top income earners pay 80% of the taxes.
...or is this fact a little to trite for you.
Wisenheimer 1/25/2013 6:52:06 PM Report

Why do lefties think the the U.S. constitution is out of date, but 200 year old Indian Treaties are relevant?
Alberta's oil royalties approx. 6 billion shy. Provinces relying on massive equalization payments (Ontario, Quebec) might think about developing their own resources.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:53:36 PM Report

And still they want more, a great way to buy votes from the masses.
right wing 1/25/2013 6:55:22 PM Report

Spellchecker

"Free" and "entitlements" are going to be put on the chopping block, one by one.
It is simple math.
The population is aging and the work force that will be in place will be unable to support many of the social programs that have been put in place over the years.
The day is coming quickly when folks won't believe it is a crisis whether Batchewana Bay Provincial Park opens up or closes on time or not.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 6:55:39 PM Report

But they sure got fooled when they saw their paycheques shrink in the new year when the payroll taxes reverted to where they were before the Bush tax cuts. They thought they would get a free ride when they soaked the rich.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:00:55 PM Report

As long as they can retain the world's reserve currency, they will hang on to the entitlements as long as they keep the printing presses going. However, this will destroy their currency and the party will come to an abrupt end, for them and us as their greatest trading partner.
right wing 1/25/2013 7:01:53 PM Report

Spellchecker

Hahaha...."the rich" can and will move.
Wait until that happens in mass (it already has in some of the over the top taxed states) and the so called "have nots" are left wondering what the hell happened.
They can get some more from the Liberals can't they, can't they?
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:04:01 PM Report

Germany has begun to repatriate its gold from US vaults. This is the beginning of economic war. Hot war will follow from them for the third time in a century once they put the rout to Iran and its cohorts.
right wing 1/25/2013 7:04:48 PM Report

...hey where did all the Liberals go...

Come on, we haven't even been called something original like "Rushites" yet or "ditto-heads."
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:06:04 PM Report

Texas is already wooing the overtaxed Californians.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:07:26 PM Report

Their heads are swimming. They need time to regroup.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:14:25 PM Report

It must have been our surprise offensive that put them off guard.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:16:10 PM Report

I feel stirrings in their trenches now.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:17:31 PM Report

Reinforcements are arriving now.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:27:16 PM Report

Don't tell me that's all it took to vanquish them.
sparks7 1/25/2013 7:28:20 PM Report

Just a sec..let me find my bugle.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:31:50 PM Report

That's the spirit, sparks. Liven up the battlefield.
sparks7 1/25/2013 7:38:06 PM Report

Interesting how those on the right laugh at and belittle extreme lefties for being "doomsters" on climate change.Then,as soon as the dems are elected in the us, economic armageddon is surly just around the corner.
Mik 1/25/2013 7:46:06 PM Report

How 'bout you live in the middle? A bit conservative about somethings, a bit liberal about others?

Or is it scary?
Grump 1/25/2013 7:48:48 PM Report

Spelly you're right my head is swimming. No one could put up with this load of nonsense right wing B. S. and not have their head swimming. What gets me is you accuse the lefties of living in la la land. Give us a break
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 7:52:12 PM Report

The economic disaster has been a long time in the making, since the introduction of central banking. The latest US administration is hastening it greatly. It has created more debt than all the rest combined, quite a feat for a 4-year stretch.
right wing 1/25/2013 7:58:40 PM Report

Great contribution there Grump.....
Another one of your outstanding blanket statements.
How about a resounding "I hate Harper".
right wing 1/25/2013 8:01:05 PM Report

sparks7

Your kidding, right.
The economic woes don't need a "hockey stick" graph, should we come out with a movie...An Inconvenient Economy...Hahahahaha.
sparks7 1/25/2013 8:14:39 PM Report

Climate change has been a long time in the making too.Hastened greatly by the burning of fossil fuels.As for the economic disaster and who is responsible for that,well,i think all that has been hashed out on here before ad nauseam.Having said that,have you not noticed the world economies getting better over the last year or so?It's slow I know but it is getting better IMO.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 8:20:09 PM Report

No, it's actually the slowest recovery ever and not likely to last very long before entering a new and deeper recession.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 8:21:17 PM Report

Each recovery is dependent on more stimulus and doesn't get as far as the previous one.
right wing 1/25/2013 8:27:49 PM Report

sparks7

Hahahaha...sorry for all the laughing but what else can I do.....
I'll say climate change has been a long time in the making, a million plus years.
Check the paleo history.
Obama's attack on the economy has been...four?
sparks7 1/25/2013 8:35:35 PM Report

I think I know what you are saying Spellchecker.Boom and bust and the pendulum swings to more and more extreme positions right? Sooner or later we are going to hit a wall right? But you are discounting the boom end of the cycles.Were not the Clinton years good times?Show some faith in mankind my man.Buck up.
sparks7 1/25/2013 8:38:24 PM Report

yup right wing, It was what I was going to say.Started when man put flint to pyrites and made fire.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 8:47:22 PM Report

If you're putting your faith in man your faith is misplaced. I know a scripture that pertains to that but I know it would be unwelcome so I will refrain.
sparks7 1/25/2013 8:47:57 PM Report

Ah hell I guess I gotta point this out again,maybe some people missed it.Dow Jones when Oboma first took office about 6500-7000....Dow Jones today about 13800.Hmmmm.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 8:51:57 PM Report

Dow Jones now is just slightly ahead of the 12000 it was a decade ago. Great performance, isn't it?
sparks7 1/25/2013 8:55:02 PM Report

Oh hell Spellchecker anything you have to say is welcome in my books.I respect you and enjoy the discussion.Here is what I think.If the creator is good then he would not create shit would he.
sparks7 1/25/2013 8:57:23 PM Report

Yes it was around 12000 before the bush administration.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:03:16 PM Report

Thanks sparks for the kind words. The big decline that happened just before Obama took office was because of the housing bubble popping. Now there is a debt bubble that will also soon be popping.

It's not the Creator who causes the problems. It is man's rejection of Him that puts us in the pickles.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 9:10:26 PM Report

Well, actually Spelly, the book I recommended yesterday, would give some credence to your view. It really is worth a read and I'll lend it to you if you wish. The final words of the book are this and it is a message to cowardly naysayers like rw: "Today ... the biggest threat to Western civilization is not posed by other civilizations, but by our own pusillanimity- and by the historical ignorance that feeds it"
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:14:29 PM Report

Yes shakey, I know of Niall Ferguson and his ideas. I posted a url a while back of one of his articles. He has written a few books.
sparks7 1/25/2013 9:24:24 PM Report

Ok spellchecker but how did the housing bubble come to be? Who and what caused it? Some QE,TARP,etc. was necessary to "fix" it.And never mind the debt caused by unnecessary wars and tax cuts.

On the creator.I don't know if you can understand this or not but my philosophy is that he likes to play hide and seek with himself.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 9:27:25 PM Report

He's very readable and has an astonishing bibliography. It's interesting that the first of his "killer" themes of the western rise in the 1500s and onward is "competition" among European states. Since the inception of the EU and its collaboration, the mountains of butter and the bailings out, Europe is not doing so well. What do you think of the proposed U.K. vote?
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:34:45 PM Report

The housing bubble came to be by the government encouraging the banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford the houses. It reminded me of the time Mrs. Spellchecker and I wanted to buy a house and the bank wouldn't lend us the money because they were afraid we couldn't pay the loan which we would have been able to pay. Canadian banks, at least at that time, were quite a bit more careful with their housing loans than the US was before they created the housing bubble.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:37:20 PM Report

Shakey, Britain will either leave or be kicked out of the European Union. I have known this since its entry back in 1971.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:40:10 PM Report

Don't count Europe out. They're just in the process of streamlining. The economic crisis is creating the stimulus for reorganization.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:41:43 PM Report

So is the Iranian threat and the reluctance of the US to confront it.
shakespeare 1/25/2013 9:44:20 PM Report

What about the deliberate Muslim goal of Islamisizing Europe by 2050?
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:46:38 PM Report

That's what I'm getting at. German elites aren't going to allow that to happen.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:48:05 PM Report

We're on the verge of a modern crusade.
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:49:18 PM Report

You know what they say about history repeating itself.
sparks7 1/25/2013 9:53:02 PM Report

hmmm.Did the government encourage people to take loans they could not afford or did the suits pressure government to deregulate enough so that they could make loans to people that they knew all along could not afford them?Then turn around and sell the worthless loans to retail investors while shorting the same stuff.Life is a carnival!
Spellchecker 1/25/2013 9:56:36 PM Report

You've got it sparks. Derivatives are going to sink the banks when the taxpayers are fed up with baling them out.
Wisenheimer 1/25/2013 9:57:24 PM Report

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were directed by successive administrations (starting with Clinton) to provide mortgages to those who were not qualified. You could have the American dream even if you couldn't afford it.
The wheels always fall off this type of "feel good"
nonsense. The Greeks are getting a dose of it currently.
nanag 1/25/2013 10:49:20 PM Report

Right Wing

I will confess that you are among one of my favorites to read on here. Sometimes I take offense, for other people ,at what you say. Tonight I must take offense for myself.. I too drove cab for a while and I am not much of a "bullshitter". I have an honest job and work hard taking care of people everyday. I didn't drive taxi for the money.. per say.. I drove to help my brother out who was an owner operator. .... anyway.. I take offense at the "tone" in which you said "cab driver"..like they are beneath you or something... shame on you .. you are no better than anyone else on here sweetheart... you sit to shit the same as everybody else.. so when it comes down to basics we are all the same
Just Curious 1/25/2013 11:05:22 PM Report

rw,so can plumbers...:)
Just Curious 1/25/2013 11:18:14 PM Report

Amen,nanag... My sentiments exactly...G'night..
skipper dave 1/25/2013 11:44:22 PM Report

Tme to empty the sand box kiddies, uncle Skippy has to check for fleas and head lice, come back in the morn so we can put fresh kitty litter in so you can get a better grip.
sparks7 1/26/2013 2:50:45 AM Report

LOL "Pusillanimity",

Now that right there is a ten dollar(50 cent adjusted for inflation)dollar word if I ever heard one you pompous ass.Try a little prose Shakey.You jest might wannabe make it.
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