Zing 10/13/2012 6:39:09 AM Report
Grace 10/13/2012 6:44:27 AM Report
Crap...zing beat me!
A good bi partisan Quack and chirp to all!
jean-paul 10/13/2012 6:46:50 AM Report
CRACE quack quack quack back to ya.
Grump 10/13/2012 6:59:24 AM Report
Good morning little birdies and everyone else. Have a great weekend.
By your leave 10/13/2012 8:04:43 AM Report
Let teachers strike if they want to. Maybe it'll cost the students a year of their schooling but that's obviously not a problem for the teachers. As far as I'm concerned teachers can walk the line until they freeze or go broke.
Bargaining or no barganing, one thing's for sure, there won't be any agreements signed that are different from what the government has already legislated.
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 9:05:47 AM Report
By your leave...just a thought - 'agreements' are not 'legislated'.
By their nature agreements are bargained for.
Legislation is mandated.
By your leave 10/13/2012 9:30:39 AM Report
flyhawk, "the company" is losing 15 billion dollars a year, year in and year out. Teachers are paid by "the company". "The company" isn't moving. Bargain away my friend.
BigDaddy 10/13/2012 9:40:15 AM Report
By your leave...the "company" is lossing massive amounts due to the idiots running the show. So, your logic is too hit the teachers? Don't pretend your not biased, I don't see you talk about the thick levels of useless Management, garbage programs, ineffective tax rates, etc, etc.
No, hit the workers at the front line actually doing the work....
skipper dave 10/13/2012 9:48:31 AM Report
By Your Leave - the company is going broke thru bad management decisions. They try to change the bottom line at the expense of the workers\'s salary package (by the way they gave themselves a bonus) The company also knows that if the teachers strike they come out looking like the bad guy. The teachers decide to go to mediation to preserve the process. The company decides to legislate you back to work - Smiley face, It's the teachers fault. I know do away with the teachers union because it's ineffective and rely on the integrity of Dalton and Dave?
Grace 10/13/2012 9:49:29 AM Report
Go Big Daddy!
The"company" builds multiple new monuments to the craft realocating funds from actual education to the trappings of four new walls.
Building new scools does what?? Exactly?
Would love to have the "company" wallet
All that cash to spend without tangable results to be shown!
bluesslinger 10/13/2012 10:05:51 AM Report
right wing,30 years sounds about right.
Since the victim will take a lifetime to recover from the rape, it's only justice that the perp receive a lifetime in jail.
If it happened in your country, you could count on at least two years of soft time (which the lefties would consider cruel), perhaps a few months of probation, then freedom - because the progressive liberals will want to make sure the criminal isn't offended.
right wing 10/13/2012 10:09:51 AM Report
"25miller 10/12/2012 10:52:48 AM Report
"As a result of the investigation into the fatal motor vehicle collision that occurred on St. Georges Avenue East on October 3rd, 2012, officers with Traffic Services have charged 48 year old R-Scott CHORNEY of Grandview Avenue, with one count of Turn Not in Safety contrary to Section 142(1) of the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario."
You got to be joking if this is the only charge this guy gets..If he had 3 beer in him, crap would hit the fan...Might be the name of this person that only got this pitty charge..."
Read the headline story on the front page of The Sault Star today.
It would appear that you do not have a clue what you were talking about and IMO you owe both the driver of the vehicle, the victim and their families a public apology.
I won't hold my breath....
right wing 10/13/2012 10:11:40 AM Report
Are you saying the victim is a consideration....
You would not believe so in this country.
bluesslinger 10/13/2012 10:26:19 AM Report
Spellchecker 10/13/2012 10:26:30 AM Report
I inadvertently posted this in yesterday's archive so here it is again.
Flyhawk is confusing nominal Christians with real Christians.
Statusquo is waiting for the human race to evolve. He'll see it evolve into something worse before it finally does get better, and now the EU receives the Nobel Peace Prize. Such irony, first Yasser Arafat, then Barack Obama, and now the European Union, the embryo of Germany's forthcoming empire.
Sorry status, I just have to laugh out loud on that one, but here's a smiley face for you.
right wing 10/13/2012 10:36:01 AM Report
You deserve a Nobel Peace Prize for not slapping yourself in the face when hearing who won the Nobel Peace Prize.
The Nobel Peace Prize has become a complete joke.
The EU's will most likely end up on an episode of Pawn Stars.
By your leave 10/13/2012 10:41:40 AM Report
BigDaddy: Good point. The managers of "the company" have been making some bonehead decisions about employee compensation in recent years. The employees' compensation needs to hit the pause button. Biased as charged. I purchase the services of "the company". Unfortunately that's mandated too (flyhawk25).
skipper dave: If teachers go on strike they ARE the bad guys. They say they agree that a wage freeze is necessary to help reduce the deficit. So agree in writing and get on with it. Desperate times call for desperate measures: Mediation will not work to achieve "the company's" "reduce expenditures and keep kids in school" objective IN THIS CASE.
Grace: Consolidating Bawating and the Dunn populations provided better class offerings for students, reduced the number of teachers required, and provided school plant operating efficiencies. Win win win I'd say. Similarly for Holy Cross. I'm not so sure about the new Catholic highschool.
It's not everybody else's fault people. The people employed by "the company" need to shoulder some of the 15 billion dollar annual burden without complaint.
right wing 10/13/2012 10:46:48 AM Report
Section A - Page 6 of The Sault Star.
Get the Facts on Provincial Support for Education
Could one of the teachers on here please point out what facts from this almost full page ad are incorrect and why.
Seriously, I want to know because it sure paints a dam fine "pie" that anybody would want in on.
Retreaded 10/13/2012 10:53:49 AM Report
IF the McGuinty government REALLY wanted to tackle the deficet they could start by creating ONE school board and get rid of FRENCH instruction. If you want Catholic religion...let the church provide it. If parents want French for their child...take private lesson or buy Rosetta stone.
Reducing the debt on the backs of teachers is the easy way out for this so called government.
right wing 10/13/2012 10:59:48 AM Report
How are they reducing the debt on "the backs of teachers".
Your statement would indicate some form of hardship to the teachers, what is the hardship?
Retreaded 10/13/2012 11:02:41 AM Report
They took away some of what the teachers had bargained for in good faith. They do not want to negotiate so the teachers lose some of what they had earned.Legislation did not help the teachers and was the chicken route to go.
right wing 10/13/2012 11:05:56 AM Report
What did they take away?
By your leave 10/13/2012 11:17:34 AM Report
These teachers seem to forget that the point of teaching is to educate students. I'm pretty sure educational outcomes would improve dramatically if we had more teachers.
Unfortunately "the company" can't afford more teachers at this point with the deficit the way it is and teacher salaries being what they are. Perhaps "the company" should pay teachers 1/2 of what they make now so we can reduce the deficit AND hire more teachers. That would be fantastic from my side of the "we pay, you educate" mandate. What do you think teachers?
Retreaded 10/13/2012 11:18:21 AM Report
They have less sick days and the loss of the gratuity. Read up on it.
By your leave 10/13/2012 11:21:31 AM Report
I wish the government would take away my sick days. I have to pay for them myself :(
Wicket 10/13/2012 11:30:43 AM Report
Spelly, what is a nominal Christian as opposed to a real Christian? Sounds very condescending to me...
BIG BROTHER 10/13/2012 11:31:53 AM Report
I see all the experts are out in full force today. Nice to know they are so well informed, have a true understanding of all the issues (they read it in the ad) and believe in the dictatorial process of government.
McGuinty is pandering to the right wing and it is obvious by the opinions being expressed that this is the case.
Grace 10/13/2012 11:31:58 AM Report
by your leave...
Since you seem to be in the know about "company" matters..please list out if you would the superior in Superior over what Bawating and Sir James Dunn Coligiate and Vocational schools offered?
right wing 10/13/2012 11:33:34 AM Report
That's real hard on their "backs".
Read up on it?
I have bud.
The province proposed to replace banked sick days with a 120 sick day short term plan at 90% of salary that would bridge teachers to long-term disability benefits.
So what was you it were crying about....
Retreaded 10/13/2012 11:34:40 AM Report
By your leave...WHO in their right mind would ever agree to a 50 percent pay cut. RIDICULOUS. It would seem some of you would like the American style of education whereby you pay the teachers poorly...provide them with very few classroon supplies and expect them to do a good job. I say we should applaud and appreciate our teachers. MOST of them earn every penny they make. I know...I have been there.When the teachers and the province, over many many years agreed to terms someone in power must have agreed the teachers deserved what was in the collective agreement. All of a sudden...that does not matter anymore?
right wing 10/13/2012 11:37:43 AM Report
Well instead of lecturing about how much "we" on the outside are so ignorant and ill informed (not sure what "right" has to do with it) tell us what is not true and why as outlined in the ad.
BIG BROTHER 10/13/2012 11:39:12 AM Report
'The province proposed to replace banked sick days with a 120 sick day short term plan at 90% of salary that would bridge teachers to long-term disability benefits. '
Bullshit!! Oh...and figure out the difference between a proposal and a mandate!!
BIG BROTHER 10/13/2012 11:47:34 AM Report
At the end of the day, the government is going to lose this battle in a court of law. What they are doing (not proposing) is illegal and they know it. They also know they need(ed) to swing some right wing votes their way in order to gain a majority. They do this by acting like the bully in the schoolyard (a right wing mentality, for sure) and it apparently sells to the knee-jerk crowd. But a second sober reading in a court will shine the light on their tactics and show them to be wrong on all levels!
right wing 10/13/2012 11:59:32 AM Report
I knew it, a retired teacher.
What was bargained for in the past.
So sharing the wealth is a great idea as long as the teachers don't have to share any of theirs during these very tough economic times.
The teachers all had McGuinty dolls and loved him when he was flowing the $$$$ their way.
Whether the teachers like it or not this is coming down to public perception and McGuinty along with David O is doing a great job on it.
I have yet to talk with an average "Joe" or "Jane" public that is not seeing it as simple greed combined with an over the top attitude of entitlement.
Teachers are very well paid along with top notch benefits etc.
The banked sick days had accumulated to a 1.4 billion liability.
The general public sees a mammoth size piece of cake served out and because of tough economic times a small slice is being asked for back and it is seemingly met with whining and crying.
right wing 10/13/2012 12:03:58 PM Report
What a great explanation Big Bro, "bullshit".
I can see your reddened angered face from here.
Your response is exactly why the public is looking at it that way.
A court of law does not mean squat as to whether giving back some and agreeing to a two year freeze is the thing to do.
OECTA arrived at an agreement, what makes your side so different.
By your leave 10/13/2012 12:04:05 PM Report
Hi Grace. The replacement of Bawating and the Dunn with Superior Heights was a benefit both educationally and financially from my side of the "we pay, you educate" madate. If my statements of fact are wrong then prove me wrong sweetie.
The point is your blubbering and blaming "the company" about supposedly bad expenditures diverts attention from the fact that "the company's" employee compensation package is unsustainable and needs to be rectified in a measured and mature manner.
Teachers should sign their names to what they say they agree to, and no bargaining or strikes will be necessary.
By the way, I still think more teachers would provide better educational outcomes. Unfortunately "the company" simply cannot afford more teachers at current salary rates.
right wing 10/13/2012 12:11:17 PM Report
By your leave
Good luck explaining to some on here the financial benefits of closing two schools that were crumbling and falling into the ground.
Get ready for some "sound" financial reasoning about how folks renovate their house when it needs it instead of building a new one.
...but it is fun!
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 12:21:57 PM Report
Grace raised a valid question.
In spite of the talk of 'delivering better learning outcomes' - whatever that means - lost in all of this is the sense of community.
Forgotten or ignored is the effect on all the elementary schools which are also being replaced with edu-factories.
In the end neighborhood schools are closed, kids are driven to school and buildings which could most all be refurbished are shuttered.
If we applied the same philosophy to universities - Queens, McGill and U of T would be demolished and replaced with aluminum boxes next to strip malls.
Do I know what I write about?
Twenty five years ago I was in every Catholic high school in Ontario. I saw first hand what happens when unfettered expansion hits student communities.
It stunk then and it stinks now.
School must be about more than program delivery and cost efficiencies of scale.
These are our children and they will be the victims of ill advised expansion.
right wing 10/13/2012 12:31:47 PM Report
So you are saying that the performance stats on Ontario's students, which reflect achievements mostly above provincial standards are untrue?
Based on your observation and philosophy we should have never let education get beyond the one room school house because I'm quite sure that when the first multi-room grade school was built dividing all the grade levels "Mrs Marm" stated there would be hell to pay.
By your leave 10/13/2012 12:31:58 PM Report
Some good points flyhawk25. Perhaps if teachers were paid less then we could afford more teachers and keep neighbourhood elementary schools financially and educationally viable (no split classes).
mallet 10/13/2012 12:40:41 PM Report
Boy, everything old is crumbling and in danger of collasping in your world isn't it! I kind of remember a little discussion we had had earlier this year, regarding a certain building in Elliot Lake that was collasping and in "immediate danger" of collaspe or so all the "experts" and yourself said as much, however apart from the original collasped part and the work the rescuers did nothing else has moved, so prehaps your expert knowledge in this area is not as good as you would like to make out. Renovation is less expensive, and you know it, you just want to stir the mire...
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 12:56:42 PM Report
right wing...of course I'm not.
Once again it is your use of 'reductio ad absurbum'(my Latin is rusty).
Essentially you try to boil every argument down to its absurd extreme.
I will point out that you of course have no proof that those test results reflect in any way the size of the school or the classes.
A more accurate measurement would be the skill level and professionalism of the teachers and the preparedness the kids got at home.
Sorry but you are out of your pay scale here.
Grace 10/13/2012 1:04:26 PM Report
By your leave..Well..."sweetie" I guess you are by your little reply you are wearing the high boots today and here we came unprepared and without our shovels and nose plugs!
I asked a question hoping for something resembling an inteligent answer. Sorry honey bear..we can all smell the aroma from what you've been mucking around in!
Grace 10/13/2012 1:13:03 PM Report
RW..Bawating was not crumbling.
Just what they wanted you to believe.
Any excuse to monument build.
How come the school boards meetings are not televised like the council meetings?
Largest part of our tax bill goes to education.
Where is the accountability?
skipper dave 10/13/2012 1:16:04 PM Report
Queen St. Business owner carrying a sign protesting the opening of Walmart in the Station Mall. Question, where is Stats this morn?
Just Curious 10/13/2012 1:33:25 PM Report
Stats is probably at Walmart cashing in on the free stuff...:). Or maybe getting a patch kit for Darlene...LOL..
By your leave 10/13/2012 2:14:04 PM Report
Hi Gracie. Here's my intelligent answer: Full and transparent reviews of the closure and consolidation of Bawating and Sir James Dunn, and more recently the folding in of Alexander Henry students and programs was performed by several ADSB Accomodation and Review Committees. The result, and the one that provided an anticipated maximum benefit for students, parents and the community was the closure of Bawating, the Dunn and Alexander Henry and the erection of Superior Heights with the folding in of Henry students and protection of their programs.
This was deemed best by all involved in the ARC process given the primary objective of improving student educational experiences and opportunities both during and after school.
The Final ARC reports can be viewed at the following sites:
SIR JAMES DUNN--- http://tinyurl.com/9tgpxlh
ALEXANDER HENRY--- http://tinyurl.com/8rff8nl
I know your opinion counts for more than three full and transparent processes taking months of manhours to create, assemble, analyze and complete attempting to best solve the problem from all stakeholder's points of view and through a lens of real constraints Gracie, but hey I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
Oldie Goldie 10/13/2012 2:15:08 PM Report
All you Teacher haters can watch how the Ontario Government will pay with your tax money when they lose the Law Suit.
Right Wing---The Teachers negotiated in good faith for many years to get what Benefits they now get. The McGuinty Liberals are trying, by Legislation, to cancel many of those negotiated benefits.
What makes all you Teacher haters think that Teachers are responsible for the $ 15 Billion deficit that McGuinty's pals have run up with their spending habits.
The right to bargain has been legalized by the Ontario Labour Board for over 40 years now and Legislation can not wipe it out.The Ontario Labour Board came to life because Employers were not treating their Employees with respect.
The B.C. Government tried it and lost in Court and the Ontario Liberals will lose it in Court too.
The only ones who will benefit will be the Lawyers and don't forget that the Government Lawyers will be paid by Ontario Taxpayers.
So the deficit will rise not fall.
And this turmoil is only the beginning of McGuinty's problems if he continues to Legislate instead of Negotiate with many sectors outside the Teaching Profession.
Spellchecker 10/13/2012 2:39:05 PM Report
Wicket, no condescension in what I said. A nominal Christian is a Christian in name only. A nominal Christian might do the things that flyhawk attributed to people that he considered Christian. A real Christian lives according to the principles that Christ advocated and would not do many of the things that nominal Christians do.
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 2:44:35 PM Report
What we are seeing is the death throes of a terminally ill political party.
Harris did the same thing and Harper will too.
So they pick a fight with one particular group because even though they know they will eventually lose the taxpayers will foot the legal bill.
And they will say "well we tried to cut costs".
Thoughtful analysis will show the lie for what it is and Dalton will take his golden parachute to somewhere in the Muskokas.
We'll be left with all the bills and some lipstick on a few pigs.
He picked the wrong group to bully this time.
By your leave 10/13/2012 2:50:59 PM Report
I hope you don't think I'm a "teacher hater" Goldie. I want more of them! Unfortunately "the company" can't afford more teachers right now. Big debt, unsustainable pay rates and all. Say Goldie, would the teachers you know significantly reduce their salaries so we can hire more teachers? Union brothers standing together arm in arm for their principles and all.
I guess they could just sign what they say they already agree with: wage freeze, reduction in sickness benefits, grid increases only.
Some might say that putting your signature where your mouth is is principled, but those people aren't taxpayer haters looking for any reason to pick a fight.
mallet 10/13/2012 3:02:05 PM Report
Oldie Goldie and Flyhawk25..
I do not think it is a case of teacher haters, it is just one of the "deadly sins" JEALOUSY... that teachers gets a better deal than someone else in another profession/job. Some people get more than one pension government/company, how about pensions from overseas, not their fault, they worked for them. If the unions that you belonged to did not get what you thought were your entitledments then you should have gone to the meetings where the proposals were made. DO NOT BLAME SOMEONE ELSE FOR THE DECISIONS THEY MADE...
By your leave 10/13/2012 3:26:37 PM Report
You're probably right Goldigger and drydock25. They'll probably lose the court case. A few million wasted. Ho Hum. It's worth the effort from my side of the "we pay, you educate" mandate. "The company" will just make up the difference by offering significantly reduced compensation packages when contracts do come up for negotiation. No sweat.
Grace 10/13/2012 3:38:07 PM Report
Thank you By for the links I'll read through them.
Just wondering... do you know alot about this because you are on the inside of the "company" or a interested bystander?
By your leave 10/13/2012 3:49:32 PM Report
I help fund "the company" through my taxes Gracie. No inside connections, "company" or otherwise.
shakespeare 10/13/2012 3:52:32 PM Report
Just got back from visiting my daughter, a teacher, out west. As I wanted to do a little exploring, I used her car and drove her to and from work. On each of the three teaching days I was there, she would be into work by 7:30 and I picked her up at 5:00, 5:30 and 6:00.There were still cars there. After she got home, she had to work on modifications for the next day for each(different) of her IEP students.
She is not new to teaching and this seems to be the norm. I'm not too sure what our illustrious sage on halving teachers' pay wants from teachers.
I suspect that Dalton will work on the views expressed by some today and start moving us into the para-educational situation. They tried the move in the College system to start "hiring-teachers-who-are-not-real-teachers-but-actually-they-are-real-teachers-that-would-not-have-the-professor-designation-and-thus-they-can-be-paid-less". In order to get this dropped from the agenda, the College teachers accepted the McGuinty "offer".
Watch out folks ,,, it's coming to an elementary school near you.
I'm not against a review of the educational system nor any system and quite like some of the new moves in terms of pharmacists and nurse practicioners, but I'm worried when a decision is made and then "back-door" reasoning is applied to justify it.
Watch out folks;it's coming to a school near you!
BTW: the grade 3,6 etc. tests were not sent as tablets by Moses. They were arrived at by a team of Ministry "experts" and can be changed on a whim. I used to sit in on Ministry meetings. For example, scores for grade 12 in a certain language area,(I'm not sure but I believe it was "writing a summary") were, across the board, poor, so what happened? They removed that from the competencies!!
Grump 10/13/2012 4:07:53 PM Report
Well the day is over and I guess I'll throw my nickel in. My mother was a school principle and a very dedicated teacher. I'm sure she will be doing back flips in her grave over the behavior of todays Ontario teachers. Now for the 30 years our Bay Mills child molester recieved. What a waste of taxpayers money. He should have been nuetered at the least, I would have added a frontal lobotamy and simply turned the creep loose. I have some advice for the rest of you experts too. Run for political office be it Federal, Provincial or local. Not into that then get involded with your favorite political party or school board and pass your wisdom on. Happen to agree with you Spelly and while it isn't easy we should all try harder. Further I don't totally agree with Dalton but someone had to draw a line in the sand somewhere and thank the Good Lord he was up to it. Now have the rest of a great weekend.
By your leave 10/13/2012 4:39:14 PM Report
Backflips for sure Grump. Your daughter sounds very dedicated shakespeare. Most teachers are like that.
This "illustrious sage" would like teachers to be paid less so we can afford more of them. I'm sure even your daughter would appreciate the reduced workload so she can spend more time with her students and family. Like when her dad travels from out of province to visit for a week but she's too busy working to have a proper visit say.
Getteth what I wantteth now shakespeare?
Oldie Goldie 10/13/2012 4:39:38 PM Report
By your leave---My name is Oldie Goldie and I would appreciate it if you used that name when answering my posts instead of showing your ignorance.
Oldie Goldie 10/13/2012 4:43:06 PM Report
Grump---I guess you don't mind McGuinty wasting our tax dollars and, I assume, that means your tax dollars too.
Oldie Goldie 10/13/2012 4:44:59 PM Report
By your leave---And who do you think caused this unsustainable debt ?
Oldie Goldie 10/13/2012 4:57:29 PM Report
By your leave---Thank you for writing about the many hours of work that the A.R.C. Committees put in on those reports. Most of the Committee Members were unpaid Volunteers interested, only, in a better education for our children and grandchildren.
I happen to know most of them and I, too, am proud of their work.
By your leave 10/13/2012 5:04:07 PM Report
And by the way shakespeare you say you like the para-doctor moves, but you don't like the para-educational moves. Oh, I see. Perhaps you are too close to the education situation to be objective then.
You're asking me who caused the deficit Oldie Goldie? That's an intricate one, but one I'm sure is fairly obvious. I hope you don't want details like Grace did.
Perhaps you should be asking who is trying to resolve the deficit problem Oldie Goldie, and which taxpayer haters are throwing up costly roadblocks when they admit they should be shouldering their fair share of the deficit reduction burden.
That would be some teacher and public service unions by the way Oldie Goldie.
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 6:06:44 PM Report
By your leave...folks like you come on here, vent their spleens and eventually leave.
As you will.
You have made your point. You are angry and I don't blame you. Our lifestyle is changing.
But to blame any one group is too simplistic. However it's easy, brief and sells.
Politicians around the globe are riding that pony.
The problem is deeper than any one particular group. As a society we are soft and spoiled.
Consequently when our little part of it gets shaken we tend to lash out.
I think we need to look at who the real enemy is.
By your leave 10/13/2012 6:27:20 PM Report
Yes flyhawk25 well put (except the "angry" bit). Our worst enemy: Ourselves.
right wing 10/13/2012 6:47:35 PM Report
"I asked a question hoping for something resembling an intelligent answer."
I certainly can relate to that.
This morning I asked the following.
"Section A - Page 6 of The Sault Star.
Get the Facts on Provincial Support for Education
Could one of the teachers on here please point out what facts from this almost full page ad are incorrect and why.
Seriously, I want to know because it sure paints a dam fine "pie" that anybody would want in on."
...and I asked.
"OECTA arrived at an agreement, what makes your side so different."
This is a few of the posts that I received in response.
"Sorry but you are out of your pay scale here."
"What makes all you Teacher haters..."
"it is just one of the "deadly sins" JEALOUSY... "
Simple enough, straight forward questions, or so I thought.
Instead you are told your questions are bullshit, you just would not get it, your teacher haters and jealous.
What an absolute crock.
The responses did actually tell me a lot though.
right wing 10/13/2012 6:54:35 PM Report
The renovation bill for those schools would have far outweighed replacement costs.
It would have been more expensive, cost per square ft., to renovate than to build new, that is a fact.
I know the tradesmen that worked on systems in those schools and the infrastructure was well past the end of its functioning life time.
How you tied the Elliott Lake mall into this is your creative confusion, I'm guessing you know what you meant.
Read the links that were posted on the closing of these schools and why.
right wing 10/13/2012 6:58:59 PM Report
By your leave
You made some excellent points and provided links to backup your points.
For that expect some persecution.
I am assuming you used "google" to obtain them.
For that expect some persecution.
It is fun though...
AceOfBass 10/13/2012 6:59:44 PM Report
Roman Catholics have a constitutional right to a Separate School system.
This has nothing to do with schools and school boards it is about Liberal Governments mismanagement of this province.
McGuinty and his Bandits at Queens Park are too busy sucking up to the Muslims and non christian groups.
This all goes back to Trudeau AND HIS MULTICULTURALISM BS
We have Omar Kadhr sitting in a prison waiting for parole.
Common sense tells us this piece crap who fought against his own countrymen in Afghanistan should be put on trial for treason.The evidence is overwhelming
yet we have NDP and Liberals defending this treasonous scumbag.
How many of the roadside bombs he planted killed our troops?
Afghan Veterans should be screaming for this man's head. In respect for our troops who died in Afghanistan we should try this traitor for treason.
Grump 10/13/2012 7:09:48 PM Report
rw you are so far right it hurts me to agree with you but you are right about being cheaper to build than renovate on larger builings. Many factors involved but that is the facts. It's also too bad more of these builings aren't turned into housing units like the one on Dacey Rd. which are cost effective.
shakespeare 10/13/2012 7:17:24 PM Report
"And by the way shakespeare you say you like the para-doctor moves, but you don't like the para-educational moves. Oh, I see. Perhaps you are too close to the education situation to be objective then."
Can you find exactly where I said that I don't like the para-educational moves. I included the others deliberately to show that I was trying to keep an open mind. Read my post carefully.
Grump 10/13/2012 7:19:30 PM Report
Ace I think you and a few other malcontents deserve Harper and another Harris. Harper has piled more debt onto Canadian taxpayer's backs than McGuinty by far. That said McGuinty could have done a whole lot better too. Now look around and tell me at present there is a better alternative because in my mind I don't think we can afford another NDP or Tory government unless their policies change and they get a few new leaders.
Grump 10/13/2012 7:24:10 PM Report
Ace by the way I agree with you re Khadr but it was the Tories that brought that little PR back here and will end up putting him back on the street. Now don't give me any bull about the law being the law as they have changed the ones they didn't like.
Oldie Goldie 10/13/2012 7:38:49 PM Report
By your leave---I don't want details of who caused the big deficit---but don't blame people like Teachers and Public Employees or any other single group.
The big spending of the Liberals caused the deficit.
We only get one chance at Election time to do anything about it but if the elected government chooses to spend more than they take in after they are elected then they must bear the burden of causing the Deficit.
The Liberals have spent and are continuing to spend much more than the Inflation rate so they must bear the blame for the Deficit far more than the workers so why should the workers take cuts for the sins of the Government.
Teachers--Public workers and other groups have received raises that are about equal to the inflation rate so they have already done their share.
McGuinty was quick to blame the previous Government for the Deficit that he was left but McGuinty has more than tripled the deficit that he was left.
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 7:43:54 PM Report
right wing...so what?
I stand by what I wrote.
You really are in over your pay scale and your head.
I don't have to defend some silly partisan ad. If you are dumb enough to believe that silliness there is no room for reason - just ranting.
When all of this washes out McGuinty will get his butt kicked in court, every redneck in the province who hated school will still be pissed off and I will still have a very good education and an even better pension.
Suck it up pal and pass the wrench.
right wing 10/13/2012 7:49:21 PM Report
We know that it costs way more to renovate but perhaps you could explain that to mallet, he doesn't believe me.
Good luck and good night.
right wing 10/13/2012 7:56:43 PM Report
How all grown up of you.
If I gave a flying ---- about your condescending attitude you might have a chance of intimidating me into not asking questions.
Good luck with that pal.
The other day you're stating how you are so wise with age you have forgot half of what you knew.
I'm getting a good insight into what half that is.
One thing about somebody being a teacher in a small town is they had a lot of students that remember them.
No you don't have to answer the question, like I said I already have my answers.
By your leave 10/13/2012 8:22:51 PM Report
Thanks for the props right wing, and sure did google those reports!
Sorry about the mischaracterization of your comments shakespeare, and yes para-teachers will be taking over your school's kindergarten classrooms in 2014.
As flyhawk25 said Oldie Goldie, "to blame any one group is too simplistic. The problem is deeper than any one particular group. As a society we are soft and spoiled." Yes the majority Liberals played a big part of the overspending, but they were not alone. To claim otherwise is too simplistic.
Answer me this Oldie Goldie, do you really believe that employees of "the company" should be immune from shouldering any of the deficit reduction burden? That "the company" should just keep paying employees whatever they want no matter how much "the company" is losing? Would you run your not-for-profit tutoring conglomerate that way? Pay the tutors and janitors whatever they wanted no matter how much money the enterprise was losing? I sure hope not. We might lose a valuable tutoring service if you did.
mallet 10/13/2012 8:36:29 PM Report
But, but, Grump, haven't you just been involved in renovating a hotel downtown? Are you saying this was cheaper than tearing down and rebuilding? which kind of defeats both your and R W's arguement regarding the schools. Of course any bureaucrat can and will make a case for building new, who wouldn't, look at any headline, Joe Blow had a new school built. I will not argue that a new place is not nicer, but that does not make the standard of education better, if it did, why are Oxford and Cambridge, Harvard and Yale, the universities of first choice for just about anyone? Added to, yes, but torn down, no.
AceOfBass 10/13/2012 8:50:54 PM Report
Grump,Harper just happens to be the best Prime Minister we have.
The debt,the debt started way back with Trudeau he was the one that bankrupted this country with his socialist agenda.
Since then we have had balanced budgets and kept ahead.
When this recession first hit it was the Liberals and the Dippers who pushed for the Harper minority government to try and spend out way out of the recession with the stimulus packages.
Which the Harper government did. Now we have to pay the piper and take measures in to pay down that debt.You cannot have it both ways.
Certain programs have been cut back and government dept streamlined.It is all part of paying the debt and balancing the budget.
Canada has weathered the Big recession and we are the envy of others.Thank goodness we had a Conservative Government who had the knowledge to know what to do. Your Liberals and Dippers would have turned us into an economic basket case like the USA and Europe.
flyhawk25 10/13/2012 8:53:01 PM Report
right wing..oh my goodness. A thinly veiled threat to expose me as a tyrannical teacher.
Here is the difference between our jobs.
A teacher faces ninety or more adolescents every day. Multiply that by thirty years and double it for a semestered system.
They are not all going to love you. If you are a teacher and want to be loved buy a puppy.
If you want to teach kids be prepared for criticism.
I do not have to apologize for my work.I have no idea if you could do it nor do I care.
I know that I could not do yours. Nor would I want to.
So stick to the issue and leave the personal crap in your truck.
skipper dave 10/13/2012 9:31:49 PM Report
there are a couple of professions that seemed to be reviled by the general public. - Teachers (overpaid and have the summer off and hold our kids hostage) Postal workers (underworked, overpaid and a sweetheart pension). Civil servants - (underworked, overpaid and self entitled). Politicians -(untrustworthy,no integrity, over paid and self entitled) Clerical (XXXXXX).
I think truckers work hard, nurses, doctors, firemen, policemen, steel workers, minors and farmers,
mallet 10/13/2012 9:41:50 PM Report
I am not sure I agree with all those professions except the politicians.. Who else can give themselves a pay raise and pension increase without someone else approving it, oh dear I forgot R W he can, it's his business, but most CEO's have a board of directors who have to agree, but politicians, there is noone to say nay to them. Even if you vote in another party they are not going to reduce the level of compensation, are they?
Grump 10/13/2012 9:57:38 PM Report
Mellet there were other factors considered by the owners but they could certainly have built new for slightly less then the renovations cost. That said they kept at least half the hotel open during the reno which kept regular employees working , income coming in and regular guests brand conscious. If one was to take away these considerations then they should have torn it down. That said these old buildings could be reused for some other use which would make even more sense.
Grump 10/13/2012 10:07:36 PM Report
Oldie Goldie there is more than enough blame to go around but I get it you don't like McGuinty. How about Bob Rae leaving a 50 Billion dollar deficit in 5 Years? How about Harper running Canada's debt up over 200 Billion plus his deficit when he started with a surplus? They all have to get real and cut back which McGuinty is now doing. Harper on the other hand is giving it to the world and his friends and making cuts on the backs of the little guy. Now I don't mind listening to some balanced whining but look around and spread it evenly or it's just biased BS.
Wisenheimer 10/13/2012 11:28:12 PM Report
Please refer to the teachers' union, bill board at the Timmies on McNabb ... "You don't put students first by putting teachers last" . Hell no, put teachers first they'll figure out what's best for everybody. Reminiscent of the "we'll manage" b.s. the A.S.I union hatched years ago that drove the co. back into bankruptcy and culminated in the takeover by our Indian friends.