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Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. Keep discussions civil and on topic. Refrain from obscenity and don't post anything that your grandmother would be ashamed to read. Those who do not abide by these guidelines will have their membership revoked without notice. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Spellchecker 9/17/2012 5:37:25 AM Report
WORDS OF THE WEEK
Jimssm
its (as in 'capitalism at its best'). The possessive case, as in this case, omits the apostrophe. The apostrophe is used for the contraction for 'it is').
Strait (as in 'Strait of Hormuz')
Grace
a lot (2 words), response, Laden (as in bin Laden), noticeable, Libya, criticized, foreign, embassy, Michael, atheist
right wing
lefties (no apostrophe please, as in 'taking any of the lefties I know'), its (see above for Jimssm, as in 'posted in its entirety'), planning
Grump
hypocrite, article, trampled, troops, removable, squawk, development
Just Curious
unique
mr. monty
copied
steelworker
you're (as in 'you're talking to your circle-jerks')
flyhawk25
Google (9/12, 9:53 AM)
Right Winger
it's (apostrophe please, contraction for 'it is', as in 'it's something you choose), appease
bluesslinger
Hussein, Barack
Roland_Rolly
curricular, meddling
to be continued
WORDS OF THE WEEK
Jimssm
its (as in 'capitalism at its best'). The possessive case, as in this case, omits the apostrophe. The apostrophe is used for the contraction for 'it is').
Strait (as in 'Strait of Hormuz')
Grace
a lot (2 words), response, Laden (as in bin Laden), noticeable, Libya, criticized, foreign, embassy, Michael, atheist
right wing
lefties (no apostrophe please, as in 'taking any of the lefties I know'), its (see above for Jimssm, as in 'posted in its entirety'), planning
Grump
hypocrite, article, trampled, troops, removable, squawk, development
Just Curious
unique
mr. monty
copied
steelworker
you're (as in 'you're talking to your circle-jerks')
flyhawk25
Google (9/12, 9:53 AM)
Right Winger
it's (apostrophe please, contraction for 'it is', as in 'it's something you choose), appease
bluesslinger
Hussein, Barack
Roland_Rolly
curricular, meddling
to be continued
Spellchecker 9/17/2012 5:48:27 AM Report
WORDS OF THE WEEK - PART 2
Jerry Lundegard
to (as in 'is comical to me')
shakespeare
publicly
mallet
perhaps, benefits, inconvenience, lobbyists, omitted, cemeteries, psyche, ridiculous, arrogance, criticize, divide
statusquo
Rae (as in 'Bob Rae'), paid, aisles (as in Walmart aisles), sync
Bobby Nerves
advice (This is the noun. Advise is the verb.)
jean-paul
doesn't, statement
cathyh
your (as in 'your opinion is valid')
Snowbank
senormex
skipper dave
smiting
reality check
Reuters
intruder
disability
tuffy1
governorship
mvnnth
libel (as in 'libel suit')
Christine216
sense, welfare
******************************
WORDS OF THE WEEK - PART 2
Jerry Lundegard
to (as in 'is comical to me')
shakespeare
publicly
mallet
perhaps, benefits, inconvenience, lobbyists, omitted, cemeteries, psyche, ridiculous, arrogance, criticize, divide
statusquo
Rae (as in 'Bob Rae'), paid, aisles (as in Walmart aisles), sync
Bobby Nerves
advice (This is the noun. Advise is the verb.)
jean-paul
doesn't, statement
cathyh
your (as in 'your opinion is valid')
Snowbank
senormex
skipper dave
smiting
reality check
Reuters
intruder
disability
tuffy1
governorship
mvnnth
libel (as in 'libel suit')
Christine216
sense, welfare
******************************
Spellchecker 9/17/2012 6:03:26 AM Report
Nanag, all are welcome at the Blue Room Summits.
Mr. Poster, there's never been anyone drunk at a Blue Room Summit yet. I suppose it could happen with me around.
Nanag, all are welcome at the Blue Room Summits.
Mr. Poster, there's never been anyone drunk at a Blue Room Summit yet. I suppose it could happen with me around.
jean-paul 9/17/2012 6:18:13 AM Report
Whoa quack quack quack quack and spellchecker concerned ;as in concerned about everyone else except him(her)self.
Whoa quack quack quack quack and spellchecker concerned ;as in concerned about everyone else except him(her)self.
Grump 9/17/2012 6:35:45 AM Report
Good morning everyone. Spelly I'll have to start watching myself again, the only excuse I can offer is I have been dragging my butt lately. The Legion works well for me also and I think it would be great if we could all support it a bit more. Daffy Duck has another whine going there, someone send him a little cheese. Have a great day everyone.
Good morning everyone. Spelly I'll have to start watching myself again, the only excuse I can offer is I have been dragging my butt lately. The Legion works well for me also and I think it would be great if we could all support it a bit more. Daffy Duck has another whine going there, someone send him a little cheese. Have a great day everyone.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 7:07:12 AM Report
Good Monday (yuk!) morning, everyone.
Hanging my head in shame to be on Spelly's list.
Good Monday (yuk!) morning, everyone.
Hanging my head in shame to be on Spelly's list.
flyhawk25 9/17/2012 7:33:30 AM Report
I am contesting my making The List.
'Google' is a trade name and a proper noun. But to use it as a verb one need not capitalize it.
It is becoming part of the cyber lexicon.
Ha!
How do you like them Apples Spelly?
I am contesting my making The List.
'Google' is a trade name and a proper noun. But to use it as a verb one need not capitalize it.
It is becoming part of the cyber lexicon.
Ha!
How do you like them Apples Spelly?
Spellchecker 9/17/2012 7:44:31 AM Report
Flyhawk, the capitalization wasn't the problem. I don't normally include typos but I couldn't resist in your case as your typing is always impeccable. I suggest you review the posting. That's why I included the time and date.
Gotta head for your fair city now for my bi-weekly shopping trip. Sorry status, Walmart will be my first stop. I just can't resist those bargains.
Flyhawk, the capitalization wasn't the problem. I don't normally include typos but I couldn't resist in your case as your typing is always impeccable. I suggest you review the posting. That's why I included the time and date.
Gotta head for your fair city now for my bi-weekly shopping trip. Sorry status, Walmart will be my first stop. I just can't resist those bargains.
skipper dave 9/17/2012 7:52:00 AM Report
Good morning sweet Soo! Whew, Spelly sense of relief as you generally tag me for my contractions and the possessive. To be nailed for a biblical term is rather ironic.
Good morning sweet Soo! Whew, Spelly sense of relief as you generally tag me for my contractions and the possessive. To be nailed for a biblical term is rather ironic.
Spellchecker 9/17/2012 7:54:01 AM Report
Good job skipper *. Only one error and no bad thens and thans.
Good job skipper *. Only one error and no bad thens and thans.
RLE 9/17/2012 7:55:42 AM Report
I showed the Mrs. that I was not on Spelly's list this week. She is so proud that when we hit the stores later she is going to buy me an extra doughnut despite the doctor's orders that I lose some of the excess avoirdupois
I showed the Mrs. that I was not on Spelly's list this week. She is so proud that when we hit the stores later she is going to buy me an extra doughnut despite the doctor's orders that I lose some of the excess avoirdupois
SandyB 9/17/2012 8:52:16 AM Report
Discuss....
Anti-Teacher Argument #4- Sick Days
Bill 115 will reduce teacher sick days from 20 to 10.
When I told my wife about this fact, she responded: "well nobody should get that amount of sick days anyway."
Then I told her an interesting fact. Because the government does not consider the summer months, March Break, or Christmas holidays as actual "teacher vacation time," teachers, unlike the majority of Ontario workers, do not qualify for the mandatory 4% "vacation pay" established by the Ontario Ministry of Labour.
(https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/vacation.php)
In fact, in a prior collective agreement, when the summer months were actually legally considered to be a "vacation" for teachers, the government and teachers, working in a partnership, proposed a cost-saving, incentive strategy.
That strategy was for teachers to forfeit their 4% vacation pay in exchange for 20 sick days a year, days that could be banked and result in a retirement gratuity.
Here is where people get confused. These so called "sick days" should really be called "vacation pay days" since they in essence replaced "vacation pay."
No, the general public does not get the opportunity to miss 20 days a year for being "sick." But they do get 4% vacation pay.
Teachers get "sick day" pay instead. Different term, same meaning.
For those who started teaching in the year 2000, the retirement gratuity would be for 1/2 of a days pay for any accumulated days OVER 200.
Lets look at why the mathematics made sense for the government:
1. $74,000 (average teacher salary) x 4% vacation pay = $2960 x 30 years = 88,800
2. (30 years x 20 sick days - 200) x 1/2 days salary ($200) = $80,000
Thus, the government would save $8000 per teacher by converting to the new system.
In this system, there was an incentive to SAVE sick days for teachers. While I don't have the exact numbers, I know that at my school, no teacher has ever used up the full 20 days during the course of the year. I have never used up more than 7. Our staff average is 8.
So rounding up for the sake of argument to 11 sick days per year being used, the actual retirement gratuity would be:
(30 years x 9 sick days - 200 days) x 1/2 days pay ($200) = $14,000 gratuity. Adding in the cost of a supply teacher (11 days x 30 years x $240) = $79,200.
Thus the actual cost of the "20 banked sick days" is around $79,200 + $14,000 = $93,200
Now lets take a look at the mathematics of the new system.
1. 10 sick days that cannot be banked (teachers will therefore use them all up) x 30 years x a full days supply pay ($240) = $72,000
Don't forget to add in the vacation pay of $88,800 for a 30 year career.
This equals a new cost of $160,800 for a 30 year teacher.
Of course, some of you will say that teachers shouldn't get vacation pay. But why is that? The only reason we don't get vacation pay is because we negotiated for the retirement gratuity so that the government could save $8000 per teacher.
But Bill 115 has removed our ability to negotiate AND nullified our prior bargaining agreements.
If our prior agreements are nullified, then as Ontario employees, we are entitled to our 4% vacation pay.
Unless of course teachers are somehow different?
Discuss....
Anti-Teacher Argument #4- Sick Days
Bill 115 will reduce teacher sick days from 20 to 10.
When I told my wife about this fact, she responded: "well nobody should get that amount of sick days anyway."
Then I told her an interesting fact. Because the government does not consider the summer months, March Break, or Christmas holidays as actual "teacher vacation time," teachers, unlike the majority of Ontario workers, do not qualify for the mandatory 4% "vacation pay" established by the Ontario Ministry of Labour.
(https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/vacation.php)
In fact, in a prior collective agreement, when the summer months were actually legally considered to be a "vacation" for teachers, the government and teachers, working in a partnership, proposed a cost-saving, incentive strategy.
That strategy was for teachers to forfeit their 4% vacation pay in exchange for 20 sick days a year, days that could be banked and result in a retirement gratuity.
Here is where people get confused. These so called "sick days" should really be called "vacation pay days" since they in essence replaced "vacation pay."
No, the general public does not get the opportunity to miss 20 days a year for being "sick." But they do get 4% vacation pay.
Teachers get "sick day" pay instead. Different term, same meaning.
For those who started teaching in the year 2000, the retirement gratuity would be for 1/2 of a days pay for any accumulated days OVER 200.
Lets look at why the mathematics made sense for the government:
1. $74,000 (average teacher salary) x 4% vacation pay = $2960 x 30 years = 88,800
2. (30 years x 20 sick days - 200) x 1/2 days salary ($200) = $80,000
Thus, the government would save $8000 per teacher by converting to the new system.
In this system, there was an incentive to SAVE sick days for teachers. While I don't have the exact numbers, I know that at my school, no teacher has ever used up the full 20 days during the course of the year. I have never used up more than 7. Our staff average is 8.
So rounding up for the sake of argument to 11 sick days per year being used, the actual retirement gratuity would be:
(30 years x 9 sick days - 200 days) x 1/2 days pay ($200) = $14,000 gratuity. Adding in the cost of a supply teacher (11 days x 30 years x $240) = $79,200.
Thus the actual cost of the "20 banked sick days" is around $79,200 + $14,000 = $93,200
Now lets take a look at the mathematics of the new system.
1. 10 sick days that cannot be banked (teachers will therefore use them all up) x 30 years x a full days supply pay ($240) = $72,000
Don't forget to add in the vacation pay of $88,800 for a 30 year career.
This equals a new cost of $160,800 for a 30 year teacher.
Of course, some of you will say that teachers shouldn't get vacation pay. But why is that? The only reason we don't get vacation pay is because we negotiated for the retirement gratuity so that the government could save $8000 per teacher.
But Bill 115 has removed our ability to negotiate AND nullified our prior bargaining agreements.
If our prior agreements are nullified, then as Ontario employees, we are entitled to our 4% vacation pay.
Unless of course teachers are somehow different?
A.E.D. 9/17/2012 9:09:28 AM Report
Jimssm:Were you Captain Midnight?or in the 90 day wonders?And when did you get back on the block?(SOAS),and how many did you grease,did you ever wear a stabo rig?"The Black Devils",DAS DICKE ENDE KOMMMT NOCH!"Did you see many Arclights over there,and did your unit ever call in Broken Arrow?Did you leave under the Big Chicken Dinner? Or were you Boco Dinky Dau.And to all others on here "Go tell the chaplain".lol
Jimssm:Were you Captain Midnight?or in the 90 day wonders?And when did you get back on the block?(SOAS),and how many did you grease,did you ever wear a stabo rig?"The Black Devils",DAS DICKE ENDE KOMMMT NOCH!"Did you see many Arclights over there,and did your unit ever call in Broken Arrow?Did you leave under the Big Chicken Dinner? Or were you Boco Dinky Dau.And to all others on here "Go tell the chaplain".lol
mvnnth 9/17/2012 9:29:02 AM Report
@SandyB
I just added up the days the teachers get to stay home over and above those days that the ordinary working stiff has to report for work. I make it 62. What do you want to call those days?
@SandyB
I just added up the days the teachers get to stay home over and above those days that the ordinary working stiff has to report for work. I make it 62. What do you want to call those days?
right wing 9/17/2012 9:36:02 AM Report
You can do all the math you like.
Bottom line, great compensation for the work, plenty of holidays, great all around coverage, great pension and best of all....you are doing what you wanted, teaching, right, and that is foremost above everything else....why you chose the career.
The problem now...you (teachers and union) joined hands with McGuinty and loved it until the well ran dry...now suck it up for a couple of years, quite your whining and using smoke screen issues.
25% INCREASE, since 2004.
You can do all the math you like.
Bottom line, great compensation for the work, plenty of holidays, great all around coverage, great pension and best of all....you are doing what you wanted, teaching, right, and that is foremost above everything else....why you chose the career.
The problem now...you (teachers and union) joined hands with McGuinty and loved it until the well ran dry...now suck it up for a couple of years, quite your whining and using smoke screen issues.
25% INCREASE, since 2004.
Bobby Nerves 9/17/2012 9:37:06 AM Report
Luke 18: 9 - 14
Jesus addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else.
"Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.'
I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18: 9 - 14
Jesus addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else.
"Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.'
I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
shakespeare 9/17/2012 9:50:02 AM Report
Very appropriate post Bobby!
Spelly: you must have caught me three or four times with that word. I must program myself to check myself.
Thanks for your munificence in the free educational service.
PS an interesting juxtaposition: Denmark has, according to reports, the highest happiness among its population; Denmark has one of the generous social service networks;
Denmark has the most brutal immigration policies.
Very appropriate post Bobby!
Spelly: you must have caught me three or four times with that word. I must program myself to check myself.
Thanks for your munificence in the free educational service.
PS an interesting juxtaposition: Denmark has, according to reports, the highest happiness among its population; Denmark has one of the generous social service networks;
Denmark has the most brutal immigration policies.
Snobank 9/17/2012 9:50:26 AM Report
Spelly, thanks for the correction of my spelling of senormex's name. You might want to correct your spelling of mine, made while you were correcting my spelling of his. ;)
Spelly, thanks for the correction of my spelling of senormex's name. You might want to correct your spelling of mine, made while you were correcting my spelling of his. ;)
Zing 9/17/2012 9:55:07 AM Report
"Hockey players head abroad as lockout begins"
CTV
We will have to watch something else as the lockout continues. Frown face.
"Hockey players head abroad as lockout begins"
CTV
We will have to watch something else as the lockout continues. Frown face.
flyhawk25 9/17/2012 10:04:39 AM Report
"smoke screen issues"...hmmm.
So the cancellation of collective bargaining rights and existing agreements made in good faith are "smoke screen issues"?
Come now right wing even you cannot believe that baloney.
"smoke screen issues"...hmmm.
So the cancellation of collective bargaining rights and existing agreements made in good faith are "smoke screen issues"?
Come now right wing even you cannot believe that baloney.
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:06:31 AM Report
If I follow rw's argument to its full extension, the more you like your job the less you should want to be paid.
That means of course, the more you get irritated while posting here the less money you should be paid for your posts. Hmm...either rw has been making a lot more money posting here than Flyhawk, who is generally pretty benign,or, he hasn't been getting cheques from Sootoday like most of us do. Which is it, rw? (You could be due some big residuals if you're upset enough.)
Of course, if you are really enjoying posting here you won't want the money most of us are getting.
If I follow rw's argument to its full extension, the more you like your job the less you should want to be paid.
That means of course, the more you get irritated while posting here the less money you should be paid for your posts. Hmm...either rw has been making a lot more money posting here than Flyhawk, who is generally pretty benign,or, he hasn't been getting cheques from Sootoday like most of us do. Which is it, rw? (You could be due some big residuals if you're upset enough.)
Of course, if you are really enjoying posting here you won't want the money most of us are getting.
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:12:12 AM Report
2nd paragraph of my last screed - Please pronounce "less" as "more".
2nd paragraph of my last screed - Please pronounce "less" as "more".
right wing 9/17/2012 10:15:01 AM Report
flyhawk25
I'm not saying that at all.
The union reps left the bargaining table six months ago after one hour.
The separate school board put in over 300 hundred hours and came to an agreement.
What makes the public school system so special.
The general public is not supporting this as they are informed of the issues.
flyhawk25
I'm not saying that at all.
The union reps left the bargaining table six months ago after one hour.
The separate school board put in over 300 hundred hours and came to an agreement.
What makes the public school system so special.
The general public is not supporting this as they are informed of the issues.
SandyB 9/17/2012 10:25:35 AM Report
lol i'm not a teacher.. i'm an instructor.. MUCH different in all things. Just found that blog post, and wondered if it would generate discussion.
mvnnth - yes, they get to stay home with no pay. I doubt I'd enjoy that.
right wing - cannot disagree with you on these points "great compensation for the work, plenty of holidays, great all around coverage, great pension and best of all....you are doing what you wanted, teaching" (except if you are speaking to me, it would be what 'they' are doing, not what 'I' am doing). All that is fact. But lets not forget they negotiated for all that with a government, in good faith.
There was a huge hue and cry when Bob Rae tried this and did a claw back with Rae days.. and when Algoma Steel did it as well.
You can't complain about what they achieved with collective barganing. If I went to 2 different car dealerships to buy my new focus (love her BTW) and you complained about the great deal I got.. that would make as little sense as you complaining about what the teachers have...
I am sure you see it in a totally different way :) you and I have never ever seen eye to eye on anything.. but it was simply posted for discussion sake
lol i'm not a teacher.. i'm an instructor.. MUCH different in all things. Just found that blog post, and wondered if it would generate discussion.
mvnnth - yes, they get to stay home with no pay. I doubt I'd enjoy that.
right wing - cannot disagree with you on these points "great compensation for the work, plenty of holidays, great all around coverage, great pension and best of all....you are doing what you wanted, teaching" (except if you are speaking to me, it would be what 'they' are doing, not what 'I' am doing). All that is fact. But lets not forget they negotiated for all that with a government, in good faith.
There was a huge hue and cry when Bob Rae tried this and did a claw back with Rae days.. and when Algoma Steel did it as well.
You can't complain about what they achieved with collective barganing. If I went to 2 different car dealerships to buy my new focus (love her BTW) and you complained about the great deal I got.. that would make as little sense as you complaining about what the teachers have...
I am sure you see it in a totally different way :) you and I have never ever seen eye to eye on anything.. but it was simply posted for discussion sake
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:39:23 AM Report
"don't talk to Snobanks". Gunning for that bigger cheque,rw? Nicely played.
"don't talk to Snobanks". Gunning for that bigger cheque,rw? Nicely played.
theprotector 9/17/2012 10:53:47 AM Report
Teacher's salary is prorated over 12 months. Now if you would like to take their hourly wage and keep them working throughout the summer do the math on that one...
Teacher's salary is prorated over 12 months. Now if you would like to take their hourly wage and keep them working throughout the summer do the math on that one...
JUSTANOTHERNAME 9/17/2012 11:58:03 AM Report
Out of curiosity how many of you posting on this forum were attending school as a student during any of the previous strikes from either teachers or care takers? I went through it both in high school and again in college more than once at each. For those of you who do not think any of this is affecting those students think again. Both sides are hurting no one other than the kids involved. As this is an opinion based forum I believe that since the teachers want to compare themselves to nurses, police and fireman than they should be held to a similar standard that being an essential service. Education is no longer a luxury but an essential to make it in this ever changing competitive world. I don't agree with taking away their bargaining rights but I also don't believe they should be able to hold the future of the children they are employed to teach hostage and possibly hold them back from their competitive futures either.
Out of curiosity how many of you posting on this forum were attending school as a student during any of the previous strikes from either teachers or care takers? I went through it both in high school and again in college more than once at each. For those of you who do not think any of this is affecting those students think again. Both sides are hurting no one other than the kids involved. As this is an opinion based forum I believe that since the teachers want to compare themselves to nurses, police and fireman than they should be held to a similar standard that being an essential service. Education is no longer a luxury but an essential to make it in this ever changing competitive world. I don't agree with taking away their bargaining rights but I also don't believe they should be able to hold the future of the children they are employed to teach hostage and possibly hold them back from their competitive futures either.
old-cat33 9/17/2012 11:58:57 AM Report
NHL is Locked Out?? Well I guess my old timers team will be the "BIG TICKET" in town for now...LOL.
Our teacher in grade 7-8 down at St. Hubert's helped with the out door rink after hours and sometimes on Saturday and would stay after school for Broom Ball,Floor Hockey And crappy ole basket ball. Plus buy the odd six pack of pop! These new ones are a bunch of wimps.
NHL is Locked Out?? Well I guess my old timers team will be the "BIG TICKET" in town for now...LOL.
Our teacher in grade 7-8 down at St. Hubert's helped with the out door rink after hours and sometimes on Saturday and would stay after school for Broom Ball,Floor Hockey And crappy ole basket ball. Plus buy the odd six pack of pop! These new ones are a bunch of wimps.
Bill_the_Cat 9/17/2012 12:02:07 PM Report
So in today's obits, one Mr Caufield is described as the "lllegal" guardian. Is that an 'L' lowercase, or an 'i' uppercase? Quite different meanings.
The other online sites have the same.
Most unfortunate.
So in today's obits, one Mr Caufield is described as the "lllegal" guardian. Is that an 'L' lowercase, or an 'i' uppercase? Quite different meanings.
The other online sites have the same.
Most unfortunate.
mvnnth 9/17/2012 12:08:36 PM Report
"yes, they get to stay home with no pay. I doubt I'd enjoy that."
Oh, I don't know, you aren't saying that they really can't afford to take the time off are you? They are now in a position to take summer employment to help them squeak by and bank all those sick/vacation days to boot.
I don't much appreciate the notion that now that they can't bank their sick days they are going to be "sick" to the max. If that is so then it is time to do away with "sick" days altogether. They used to be part of an honour system. Doesn't sound as if there is much honour left.
"yes, they get to stay home with no pay. I doubt I'd enjoy that."
Oh, I don't know, you aren't saying that they really can't afford to take the time off are you? They are now in a position to take summer employment to help them squeak by and bank all those sick/vacation days to boot.
I don't much appreciate the notion that now that they can't bank their sick days they are going to be "sick" to the max. If that is so then it is time to do away with "sick" days altogether. They used to be part of an honour system. Doesn't sound as if there is much honour left.
skipper dave 9/17/2012 12:33:04 PM Report
Once more into the breach - Two jobs I could never do no matter how much you paid me - Teach and Long Haul Trucking in the winter. If we pay them well then let's demand the very best! Having said that I would not teach, does not allow me to forgo Parenting. How many send their little darlings to school with the mandate that the teachers and some good drugs substitute for my lack of parenting?
Once more into the breach - Two jobs I could never do no matter how much you paid me - Teach and Long Haul Trucking in the winter. If we pay them well then let's demand the very best! Having said that I would not teach, does not allow me to forgo Parenting. How many send their little darlings to school with the mandate that the teachers and some good drugs substitute for my lack of parenting?
Jimssm 9/17/2012 12:35:51 PM Report
I can't see how teachers not doing extra-curricular one day a week is 'holding students hostage'.
Either you think extra-curricular is voluntary for teachers or it is not.
If you think it is not voluntary, then you can't accuse teachers of having an easy, short work day. You also have to wonder why an employer (or taxpayers) can expect someone to work for no pay.
If you feel it is voluntary for them, then I guess they have the right not to do it, and all us super-involved parents can take up the slack.
I can't see how teachers not doing extra-curricular one day a week is 'holding students hostage'.
Either you think extra-curricular is voluntary for teachers or it is not.
If you think it is not voluntary, then you can't accuse teachers of having an easy, short work day. You also have to wonder why an employer (or taxpayers) can expect someone to work for no pay.
If you feel it is voluntary for them, then I guess they have the right not to do it, and all us super-involved parents can take up the slack.
mvnnth 9/17/2012 12:50:10 PM Report
"super-involved parents can take up the slack."
Absolutely, there are some great people, parents and otherwise, who have the skills, time and patience to do a great job with the after hours programs. Get the teachers out of that business. Many, I'm sure, don't want to be in it in the first place.
"super-involved parents can take up the slack."
Absolutely, there are some great people, parents and otherwise, who have the skills, time and patience to do a great job with the after hours programs. Get the teachers out of that business. Many, I'm sure, don't want to be in it in the first place.
SandyB 9/17/2012 1:15:48 PM Report
Oh, I don't know, you aren't saying that they really can't afford to take the time off are you?
lol I know my daughter can't afford it. She is paying off what we call her '$52,000.00 piece of paper, which takes over a thousand or so out of her bank account each month.. and those who complain about amounts being made are complaining about the teachers who have taught for 15 years.. have several specialities and are making that hundred thousand.. beginning teachers don't make anywhere near that..
Oh, I don't know, you aren't saying that they really can't afford to take the time off are you?
lol I know my daughter can't afford it. She is paying off what we call her '$52,000.00 piece of paper, which takes over a thousand or so out of her bank account each month.. and those who complain about amounts being made are complaining about the teachers who have taught for 15 years.. have several specialities and are making that hundred thousand.. beginning teachers don't make anywhere near that..
theprotector 9/17/2012 1:23:08 PM Report
I kow sandy what some here do not realize those that upgrade get more money and climb faster...a new teacher gets paid squat and then add in the loans...but they can bitch all they want they sure miss the teachers when they are not around.
I kow sandy what some here do not realize those that upgrade get more money and climb faster...a new teacher gets paid squat and then add in the loans...but they can bitch all they want they sure miss the teachers when they are not around.
RLE 9/17/2012 1:52:55 PM Report
RIGHT WING:
I am curious. Have you ever been in an elementary or secondary school classroom as a teacher,or is this another example of bombastic blathering on yet another subject of which you are ignorant?
RIGHT WING:
I am curious. Have you ever been in an elementary or secondary school classroom as a teacher,or is this another example of bombastic blathering on yet another subject of which you are ignorant?
steelworker 9/17/2012 2:26:45 PM Report
...on a lighter note. Parliament is back in session and it is fun to watch Question Period as P.M. Harper hands Tommie the Commie his ass on a silver tray. It's like watching Mother Theresa trying to fight Ali.
...on a lighter note. Parliament is back in session and it is fun to watch Question Period as P.M. Harper hands Tommie the Commie his ass on a silver tray. It's like watching Mother Theresa trying to fight Ali.
Spellchecker 9/17/2012 2:30:36 PM Report
So sorry, Snobank. I'm usually very careful to try to get everyone's name exactly as they use it. I'll do penance.
Snobank
Snobank
Snobank
So sorry, Snobank. I'm usually very careful to try to get everyone's name exactly as they use it. I'll do penance.
Snobank
Snobank
Snobank
Jimssm 9/17/2012 3:28:02 PM Report
mvnnth:
I was being sarcastic.
Ask the Principals, parent committee meetings often don't even get enough parents for a quorum (4 people).
The teacher rep is there, the support staff rep is there, the Principal is there. Parents ? Not so much.
Ask them to coach the junior girls volleyball team and they've got every excuse in the book. Sure there are good parents, just most are too busy to commit to 3 times a week for several months.
But....parents demand that volleyball team, so guess who gets pushed into doing it ?
mvnnth:
I was being sarcastic.
Ask the Principals, parent committee meetings often don't even get enough parents for a quorum (4 people).
The teacher rep is there, the support staff rep is there, the Principal is there. Parents ? Not so much.
Ask them to coach the junior girls volleyball team and they've got every excuse in the book. Sure there are good parents, just most are too busy to commit to 3 times a week for several months.
But....parents demand that volleyball team, so guess who gets pushed into doing it ?
Jimssm 9/17/2012 3:30:49 PM Report
steelworker...
....ironic that you would choose the Muslim over the Christian
steelworker...
....ironic that you would choose the Muslim over the Christian
steelworker 9/17/2012 3:37:47 PM Report
If it makes you happy it could be Tiny Tim fighting with E.T.
If it makes you happy it could be Tiny Tim fighting with E.T.
mvnnth 9/17/2012 4:07:12 PM Report
Jimssm
mvnnth:
"I was being sarcastic."
Well I wasn't. If a concerted effort was made by the school system to recruit volunteers to run the after school programs and there was little or inadequate response then the parents would have a problem "demanding" anything. The schools haven't made the effort so you don't know what kind of a response they would get. However, if the parents wanted to pass the hat (highly unlikely) to pay for people to run those programs then that should be just fine. The other answer is to cancel any program that can't be run by genuine volunteers. The people running the programs now it seems (remember the "job" action) are anything but volunteers and shouldn't be expected to give their time. Change is needed. What is there now isn't working.
Jimssm
mvnnth:
"I was being sarcastic."
Well I wasn't. If a concerted effort was made by the school system to recruit volunteers to run the after school programs and there was little or inadequate response then the parents would have a problem "demanding" anything. The schools haven't made the effort so you don't know what kind of a response they would get. However, if the parents wanted to pass the hat (highly unlikely) to pay for people to run those programs then that should be just fine. The other answer is to cancel any program that can't be run by genuine volunteers. The people running the programs now it seems (remember the "job" action) are anything but volunteers and shouldn't be expected to give their time. Change is needed. What is there now isn't working.
Sam C 9/17/2012 4:11:07 PM Report
Just to add to the discussion... saw this on facebook, and dug around on google to find a more reliable source. These are US figures, but I believe they would be reasonably transferable to Ontario.
On average, teachers work 10 hours, 40 minutes per day, which adds up to 53 hours per week. Even with summers off, that works out to 2332 hours per year.
A typical employee works 40 hours per week for 50 weeks, for a total of 2000 hours.
The article, which refers to a study by the Melissa and Bill Gates Foundation, goes on to describe the hours put in by teachers. It's a very interesting read.
Read the article...
http://tinyurl.com/teachers-hours
Just to add to the discussion... saw this on facebook, and dug around on google to find a more reliable source. These are US figures, but I believe they would be reasonably transferable to Ontario.
On average, teachers work 10 hours, 40 minutes per day, which adds up to 53 hours per week. Even with summers off, that works out to 2332 hours per year.
A typical employee works 40 hours per week for 50 weeks, for a total of 2000 hours.
The article, which refers to a study by the Melissa and Bill Gates Foundation, goes on to describe the hours put in by teachers. It's a very interesting read.
Read the article...
http://tinyurl.com/teachers-hours
shakespeare 9/17/2012 4:31:08 PM Report
Back in my high school teaching days, I was the senior boys soccer coach and that is all I really wanted to do, in the coaching line. There had always been a volleyball team, but the senior coach had retired and nobody came forward. I was quite friendly with and taught many of the Grade 12s and 13s and they begged me to be their volleyball coach, as no-one else would and without a staff member they were not allowed to have a team.
I told them I had never played volleyball and didn't even know the rules. They told me that they would teach me. Reluctantly,as I liked the guys, I agreed. I had a blast and was told by some of the players that I was a much better volleyball coach than a soccer coach as I could be more objective.
mvnnth: good luck with the parent or volunteer thing!! It ain't going to happen!
Back in my high school teaching days, I was the senior boys soccer coach and that is all I really wanted to do, in the coaching line. There had always been a volleyball team, but the senior coach had retired and nobody came forward. I was quite friendly with and taught many of the Grade 12s and 13s and they begged me to be their volleyball coach, as no-one else would and without a staff member they were not allowed to have a team.
I told them I had never played volleyball and didn't even know the rules. They told me that they would teach me. Reluctantly,as I liked the guys, I agreed. I had a blast and was told by some of the players that I was a much better volleyball coach than a soccer coach as I could be more objective.
mvnnth: good luck with the parent or volunteer thing!! It ain't going to happen!
Grace 9/17/2012 4:38:55 PM Report
RW...this one is for you!
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fox-friends-max-rice-obama-punked-video-162809206.html
RW...this one is for you!
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fox-friends-max-rice-obama-punked-video-162809206.html
Sam C 9/17/2012 4:40:57 PM Report
Correction -- that should read the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation." Sorry.
Correction -- that should read the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation." Sorry.
shakespeare 9/17/2012 4:49:18 PM Report
BTW: for a few of the disbelievers, beyond coaching and club supervision, I had six classes a day (not on the semester system) with five different preps and 192 students' tests and essays to mark. It was busy (I would guess 65-70 hours a week) and I loved it!
BTW: for a few of the disbelievers, beyond coaching and club supervision, I had six classes a day (not on the semester system) with five different preps and 192 students' tests and essays to mark. It was busy (I would guess 65-70 hours a week) and I loved it!
Jimssm 9/17/2012 4:50:00 PM Report
mvnnth:
Another fly in the ointment is that the school board's insurance policy requires that a representative of the board be present (and is held responsible) for all extra-curriculars.
Insurance code for: "you have to have a teacher present"
mvnnth:
Another fly in the ointment is that the school board's insurance policy requires that a representative of the board be present (and is held responsible) for all extra-curriculars.
Insurance code for: "you have to have a teacher present"
shakespeare 9/17/2012 4:52:38 PM Report
What was even more fun was there were 192 minds that I could daily manipulate with left-wing, frothy ideas!
What was even more fun was there were 192 minds that I could daily manipulate with left-wing, frothy ideas!
Snobank 9/17/2012 5:03:43 PM Report
@Spelly - Thanks for the response. (My mother used to make me write out my spelling errors 50 times when getting ready for Friday dictation at school! I think you got it in three.)
I don't always agree with your political views but I appreciate your efforts to maintain a semblance of proper English on this site. Keep up the good work!
@Spelly - Thanks for the response. (My mother used to make me write out my spelling errors 50 times when getting ready for Friday dictation at school! I think you got it in three.)
I don't always agree with your political views but I appreciate your efforts to maintain a semblance of proper English on this site. Keep up the good work!
shakespeare 9/17/2012 5:10:40 PM Report
I guess that because I enjoyed my job, rw would have cut my wages!
I guess that because I enjoyed my job, rw would have cut my wages!
BIG BROTHER 9/17/2012 5:15:17 PM Report
Hi Shakey...
I didn't recognize you at Sawpit. You should have given me a heads up...
Hi Shakey...
I didn't recognize you at Sawpit. You should have given me a heads up...
BIG BROTHER 9/17/2012 5:19:28 PM Report
That is one of my favorite spots up there. I would have whipped up a wiener for you and the missus. It's not often I gourmet it up on the beach like that. I sure know how to live it up eh!!?
That is one of my favorite spots up there. I would have whipped up a wiener for you and the missus. It's not often I gourmet it up on the beach like that. I sure know how to live it up eh!!?
shakespeare 9/17/2012 5:37:55 PM Report
BB I said "Hi" and we talked and I knew that I knew you, but couldn't quite figure out from where (old age). On the way home, I said to my wife, "I think I know who that is ... it's either Brad Pitt with longer hair or the President of the George W fan club" Glad I was not mistaken.
BB I said "Hi" and we talked and I knew that I knew you, but couldn't quite figure out from where (old age). On the way home, I said to my wife, "I think I know who that is ... it's either Brad Pitt with longer hair or the President of the George W fan club" Glad I was not mistaken.
shakespeare 9/17/2012 6:00:13 PM Report
Still on the subject of Sawpit, a geologist friend told us that the underwater rock formation there is almost unique. We went snorkelling around the corner (north) and it was quite amazing.
Still on the subject of Sawpit, a geologist friend told us that the underwater rock formation there is almost unique. We went snorkelling around the corner (north) and it was quite amazing.
BIG BROTHER 9/17/2012 6:09:05 PM Report
Years ago, I was there, basically worshiping the sun-gods. From out of nowhere, I see animals swimming around, mostly under water and impossible to make out what they were. Eventually, one of them surfaced enough to identify: they were scuba divers, staging out of the area you snorkeled and made their way around the point to the beach side.
If you want to see some geology, head up to Coldwater River...spectacular!!
Years ago, I was there, basically worshiping the sun-gods. From out of nowhere, I see animals swimming around, mostly under water and impossible to make out what they were. Eventually, one of them surfaced enough to identify: they were scuba divers, staging out of the area you snorkeled and made their way around the point to the beach side.
If you want to see some geology, head up to Coldwater River...spectacular!!
Jimssm 9/17/2012 7:04:55 PM Report
Interesting tidbit:
Police, firefighters and paramedics wage increases since 2005 have been 33% more than teachers increases.
While telling the teachers there was no money and they has to accept a pay freeze, the government negotiated a 5% pay raise to the OPP.
Interesting tidbit:
Police, firefighters and paramedics wage increases since 2005 have been 33% more than teachers increases.
While telling the teachers there was no money and they has to accept a pay freeze, the government negotiated a 5% pay raise to the OPP.
BIG BROTHER 9/17/2012 8:16:53 PM Report
Romney is crashing and burning. He'll be limping across the finish line in November.
Obama is just too smart for him and his cronies. If Obama stops campaigning today, he'll win in a landslide because Romney will self-destruct.
Romney is crashing and burning. He'll be limping across the finish line in November.
Obama is just too smart for him and his cronies. If Obama stops campaigning today, he'll win in a landslide because Romney will self-destruct.
beanie 9/17/2012 8:18:20 PM Report
When is the last time a lone teacher pulled over a van load of guys on a deserted stretch of highway at 2 in the morning?
When is the last time a lone teacher pulled over a van load of guys on a deserted stretch of highway at 2 in the morning?
mvnnth 9/17/2012 8:34:48 PM Report
"mvnnth: good luck with the parent or volunteer thing!! It ain't going to happen!"
Shakespeare
I defer to your experience. It all seems to boil down to what we can afford as a society. Right now we seem to be going through a rough spot. Maybe, at some time in the future, we can afford all these things. At the present time we can't. Out they go. It isn't a disgrace, we have to face reality, we just can't afford all these things now. Maybe we can all rise up and fill the void until we can find either the money or the volunteers. We can't justify borrowing money to fund these programs.
"mvnnth: good luck with the parent or volunteer thing!! It ain't going to happen!"
Shakespeare
I defer to your experience. It all seems to boil down to what we can afford as a society. Right now we seem to be going through a rough spot. Maybe, at some time in the future, we can afford all these things. At the present time we can't. Out they go. It isn't a disgrace, we have to face reality, we just can't afford all these things now. Maybe we can all rise up and fill the void until we can find either the money or the volunteers. We can't justify borrowing money to fund these programs.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 9:20:38 PM Report
Beanie and rw
Nice yardstick you have there.
I guess that means I should have been making $300k a year in the military.
It still doesn't justify a 5% increase 6 months after the pay freeze is announced.
Beanie and rw
Nice yardstick you have there.
I guess that means I should have been making $300k a year in the military.
It still doesn't justify a 5% increase 6 months after the pay freeze is announced.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 9:22:05 PM Report
Romney's fundraiser comments just sank his campaign.
...what an idiot...
Romney's fundraiser comments just sank his campaign.
...what an idiot...
shakespeare 9/17/2012 9:38:32 PM Report
Jimssm:
Has Romney done anything right? I am not as interested in U.S. politics as some of our posters, but I read reports from our global community. The man appears to be a walking embarrassment.
I know that most of the U.S. and rw don't care what the rest of the world thinks, but a major role for the next president is going to be foreign policy.
For beanie and rw, I am not averse to the 0% for teachers. Would you please, however, establish a criteria for those who should and should not bite the bullet and take a hit. It appears that police and fire-fighters are exempt. Please explain!
Jimssm:
Has Romney done anything right? I am not as interested in U.S. politics as some of our posters, but I read reports from our global community. The man appears to be a walking embarrassment.
I know that most of the U.S. and rw don't care what the rest of the world thinks, but a major role for the next president is going to be foreign policy.
For beanie and rw, I am not averse to the 0% for teachers. Would you please, however, establish a criteria for those who should and should not bite the bullet and take a hit. It appears that police and fire-fighters are exempt. Please explain!
shakespeare 9/17/2012 9:53:02 PM Report
Just more food for thought: Plumbers need a certificate and earn in Ontario about $36 per hour, although you pay around $80 to the company; Sprinkler System Installers get about $37 per hour and I don't know if they need a diploma or official qualifications.
ECE graduates with a college diploma and often higher qualifications,who take care of your children, earn between $11 and $20 per hour.
None, I believe have to fight fires or face vanloads of murderous villains.
Just more food for thought: Plumbers need a certificate and earn in Ontario about $36 per hour, although you pay around $80 to the company; Sprinkler System Installers get about $37 per hour and I don't know if they need a diploma or official qualifications.
ECE graduates with a college diploma and often higher qualifications,who take care of your children, earn between $11 and $20 per hour.
None, I believe have to fight fires or face vanloads of murderous villains.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 9:54:52 PM Report
Police and Firefighters deserve their pay. More than inflation though ?
...but I guess the gov't thinks they're not making enough yet as their average increase has been twice the rate of inflation.
Since the Ontario pay freeze in March....
University profs got an increase.
College profs got an increase.
Paramedics got an increase.
OPP got an increase.
Old age home workers got an increase.
Hospital workers got an increase.
Of 23 groups, only 5 received an actual pay freeze.
Police and Firefighters deserve their pay. More than inflation though ?
...but I guess the gov't thinks they're not making enough yet as their average increase has been twice the rate of inflation.
Since the Ontario pay freeze in March....
University profs got an increase.
College profs got an increase.
Paramedics got an increase.
OPP got an increase.
Old age home workers got an increase.
Hospital workers got an increase.
Of 23 groups, only 5 received an actual pay freeze.
right wing 9/17/2012 9:57:47 PM Report
shakespeare
It's called a license, not a certificate.
...and I don't give a rats about getting into it at this time but your rates are way off.
Jimssm,
You join the Military fully well knowing what the deal is, quite your whining about it.
I noticed you did not answer A.E.D's post from this morning.....
shakespeare
It's called a license, not a certificate.
...and I don't give a rats about getting into it at this time but your rates are way off.
Jimssm,
You join the Military fully well knowing what the deal is, quite your whining about it.
I noticed you did not answer A.E.D's post from this morning.....
shakespeare 9/17/2012 10:02:42 PM Report
My rates are not "off"!
I did "an r.w." and googled Ontario rates for the above professions. Please explain where I am wrong and please answer my previous question about criteria for pay.
My rates are not "off"!
I did "an r.w." and googled Ontario rates for the above professions. Please explain where I am wrong and please answer my previous question about criteria for pay.
steelworker 9/17/2012 10:04:57 PM Report
..."van loads of murderous villains." Shakespeare: I can see you have never worked in a day care. :)
..."van loads of murderous villains." Shakespeare: I can see you have never worked in a day care. :)
Sam C 9/17/2012 10:05:54 PM Report
If the government is saying we need to tighten our belts, should MPPs be getting a $22,000 raise?
http://tinyurl.com/MPP-pay-increase
If the government is saying we need to tighten our belts, should MPPs be getting a $22,000 raise?
http://tinyurl.com/MPP-pay-increase
Sam C 9/17/2012 10:06:31 PM Report
If the government is saying we need to tighten our belts, should MPPs be getting a $22,000 raise?
http://tinyurl.com/MPP-pay-increase
If the government is saying we need to tighten our belts, should MPPs be getting a $22,000 raise?
http://tinyurl.com/MPP-pay-increase
right wing 9/17/2012 10:07:56 PM Report
...and how many received 25% since 2004 on top of an already over the top starting wage in Ontario of 41,500 to 46,500.
That salt taste jimssm is from you pissing in the wind in case you were wondering.
I loved how Costello in the Sault was quoted in the Sault Star as saying that McGuinty was not a bad a Harris because Harris didn't try and take away their right to negotiate (something that has not been done)...but some were holding signs stating to now vote NDP.
Even though they hated Bob Rae.
I know that teachers do not teach commitment and belief in a particular ideology, (good freaking thing) political wise that is, it's whatever party pays them the best.
We all know the minute that party is over, they will be the next villain.
...and how many received 25% since 2004 on top of an already over the top starting wage in Ontario of 41,500 to 46,500.
That salt taste jimssm is from you pissing in the wind in case you were wondering.
I loved how Costello in the Sault was quoted in the Sault Star as saying that McGuinty was not a bad a Harris because Harris didn't try and take away their right to negotiate (something that has not been done)...but some were holding signs stating to now vote NDP.
Even though they hated Bob Rae.
I know that teachers do not teach commitment and belief in a particular ideology, (good freaking thing) political wise that is, it's whatever party pays them the best.
We all know the minute that party is over, they will be the next villain.
Sam C 9/17/2012 10:09:08 PM Report
If the government is saying we need to tighten our belts, should MPPs be getting a $22,000 raise?
http://tinyurl.com/MPP-pay-increase
If the government is saying we need to tighten our belts, should MPPs be getting a $22,000 raise?
http://tinyurl.com/MPP-pay-increase
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:09:08 PM Report
Lucky for right wing that Shakespeare's observations seem to really bother him. He is not happy and brushed him off, ergo he's due a big raise. Nice system rw.
Lucky for right wing that Shakespeare's observations seem to really bother him. He is not happy and brushed him off, ergo he's due a big raise. Nice system rw.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 10:09:21 PM Report
rw
Who said I'm whining ?
You and beaner indicated that OPP deserved a raise twice the value of inflation because their job was dangerous.
So I ask you...why then not our troops ?
rw
Who said I'm whining ?
You and beaner indicated that OPP deserved a raise twice the value of inflation because their job was dangerous.
So I ask you...why then not our troops ?
shakespeare 9/17/2012 10:16:42 PM Report
I'm waiting for your answers to my earlier questions rw.
In case you didn't understand them, here they are again:
1. Given your comments on police and fire fighters, what is your criteria for public sector "biting the bullet"?
2. Should plumbers and sprinkler installers earn up to double the wages that early childhood educators do?
I'm waiting for your answers to my earlier questions rw.
In case you didn't understand them, here they are again:
1. Given your comments on police and fire fighters, what is your criteria for public sector "biting the bullet"?
2. Should plumbers and sprinkler installers earn up to double the wages that early childhood educators do?
right wing 9/17/2012 10:20:22 PM Report
shakespeare
So you did a "r.w." and googled.
Good for you....you're learning.
Not all of us have all that "brilliant" (said with the utmost sarcasm)knowledge that you lefties spew around this site faster than a manure spreader on a farm.
Your rates are based on what shakey, union versus private and how many years experience once they have a license?
You see it's not like teaching, tradesmen actually have each and every job inspected, and it has to pass or they get to correct it.
Tradesman don't get hired on their first job and get 40,000+ automatically.
Keep practicing, you'll get the hang of googling....I know you thought you didn't have to do any research or checking...typical teacher, they only have students looking over their shoulders not peers.
;)
shakespeare
So you did a "r.w." and googled.
Good for you....you're learning.
Not all of us have all that "brilliant" (said with the utmost sarcasm)knowledge that you lefties spew around this site faster than a manure spreader on a farm.
Your rates are based on what shakey, union versus private and how many years experience once they have a license?
You see it's not like teaching, tradesmen actually have each and every job inspected, and it has to pass or they get to correct it.
Tradesman don't get hired on their first job and get 40,000+ automatically.
Keep practicing, you'll get the hang of googling....I know you thought you didn't have to do any research or checking...typical teacher, they only have students looking over their shoulders not peers.
;)
right wing 9/17/2012 10:26:25 PM Report
shakespeare
EDC is a bird course, give me a break...is that the best attempt at intimidation you can do.
EDC, two year community college course...market flooded, in short, a dime a dozen.
Average trade, 9000 hours of hands on experience combined with 720 hours of classroom time over a four year period which at the end you must write a final examination that covers information not only on your trade but the other trades you will come across in the industry.
The market for trades, in very high demand.
You have a good night shakey, if you want I'll tell you tomorrow why the trades are in such high demand.
shakespeare
EDC is a bird course, give me a break...is that the best attempt at intimidation you can do.
EDC, two year community college course...market flooded, in short, a dime a dozen.
Average trade, 9000 hours of hands on experience combined with 720 hours of classroom time over a four year period which at the end you must write a final examination that covers information not only on your trade but the other trades you will come across in the industry.
The market for trades, in very high demand.
You have a good night shakey, if you want I'll tell you tomorrow why the trades are in such high demand.
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:26:44 PM Report
rw, you're just ducking and diving in a futile sort of way. Why not just answer Shakespeare's questions?
rw, you're just ducking and diving in a futile sort of way. Why not just answer Shakespeare's questions?
mallet 9/17/2012 10:26:52 PM Report
Sam C..
You know that originally M P's did not get a wage/salary whatever you want to call it, they did it for the good (?) of the country, (well in the UK). Then of course you cannot have a House of Commons if everyone is wealthy, so to encourage ordinary people to become M P's they introduced the wage/salary scale to allow people of less wealty families to try. Then of course the financial aspect started to take root and here we are today. Politics has now become an occupation which pays a handsome pension at the end of a very short career, and allows one to sit past the ordinary retirement age, or if defeated one can be appointed to various Boards or Commissions to double and even triple dip, all at the expense of the general taxpayer, who then has to pay to vote (Elections Canada)for these people to spend our money as they please. Isn't that a wonderful system??
Sam C..
You know that originally M P's did not get a wage/salary whatever you want to call it, they did it for the good (?) of the country, (well in the UK). Then of course you cannot have a House of Commons if everyone is wealthy, so to encourage ordinary people to become M P's they introduced the wage/salary scale to allow people of less wealty families to try. Then of course the financial aspect started to take root and here we are today. Politics has now become an occupation which pays a handsome pension at the end of a very short career, and allows one to sit past the ordinary retirement age, or if defeated one can be appointed to various Boards or Commissions to double and even triple dip, all at the expense of the general taxpayer, who then has to pay to vote (Elections Canada)for these people to spend our money as they please. Isn't that a wonderful system??
right wing 9/17/2012 10:33:27 PM Report
Have to go crank my best of John Fogerty and get pumped up for the concert tomorrow night.
I don't talk to snobanks.
Have to go crank my best of John Fogerty and get pumped up for the concert tomorrow night.
I don't talk to snobanks.
shakespeare 9/17/2012 10:34:46 PM Report
Please do not get so angry rw. At least ECE grads don't "spew manure" ...and I don't know how "lefties" came into this discussion, but I digress.
Please answer my questions.
Please do not get so angry rw. At least ECE grads don't "spew manure" ...and I don't know how "lefties" came into this discussion, but I digress.
Please answer my questions.
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:40:20 PM Report
See you at Fogerty tomorrow night, rw. I hope you got good seats. I did.
See you at Fogerty tomorrow night, rw. I hope you got good seats. I did.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 10:42:05 PM Report
rw
" ...and how many received 25% since 2004 " ????????
Police, firefighter, paramedics, ambulance drivers.
A LOT MORE than a measly 25%
but..but..but.... they deserve it.
and...and...and....teachers don't.
I think I've got the gist of your argument.
rw
" ...and how many received 25% since 2004 " ????????
Police, firefighter, paramedics, ambulance drivers.
A LOT MORE than a measly 25%
but..but..but.... they deserve it.
and...and...and....teachers don't.
I think I've got the gist of your argument.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 10:47:16 PM Report
Does Fogerty play any CCR stuff in his concerts or just his solo tracks ?
Does Fogerty play any CCR stuff in his concerts or just his solo tracks ?
right wing 9/17/2012 10:47:40 PM Report
Angy...haha, would not waste any such energy...
Show your math Jimssm...didn't your teacher teach you that.
Good Lord, typical, fighting off several of them with 1/2 my brain tied behind my back...just to make it a bit fair.
Here is a link for you...very fitting at the moment.
....front row on the floor.
http://tinyurl.com/9ym24la
Angy...haha, would not waste any such energy...
Show your math Jimssm...didn't your teacher teach you that.
Good Lord, typical, fighting off several of them with 1/2 my brain tied behind my back...just to make it a bit fair.
Here is a link for you...very fitting at the moment.
....front row on the floor.
http://tinyurl.com/9ym24la
right wing 9/17/2012 10:53:04 PM Report
Didn't you buy a ticket?
Your wife is a teacher and you're on a full Military pension being special ops and all, plus you still work (I think), you should have back stage passes for you and your adopted kids.
Treat them to some good old stuff...
Didn't you buy a ticket?
Your wife is a teacher and you're on a full Military pension being special ops and all, plus you still work (I think), you should have back stage passes for you and your adopted kids.
Treat them to some good old stuff...
Snobank 9/17/2012 10:55:15 PM Report
According to the online reviews of his last few concerts Fogerty plays a lot of CCR. Apparently he's fronting a really tight band.
I'm about two rows behind you, rw. Don't stand up. I'm bringing my peashooter.
BTW, " ...and how many received 25% since 2004 " ???????? - That's a rhetorical question in case you weren't paying attention in class when that device was presented.
According to the online reviews of his last few concerts Fogerty plays a lot of CCR. Apparently he's fronting a really tight band.
I'm about two rows behind you, rw. Don't stand up. I'm bringing my peashooter.
BTW, " ...and how many received 25% since 2004 " ???????? - That's a rhetorical question in case you weren't paying attention in class when that device was presented.
Jimssm 9/17/2012 11:01:46 PM Report
Sorry...no money for tickets.
Wife...a retired teacher on reduced pension (retired early)
Me... pension and some other income plus my own business that has employees to pay.
One daughter in medical school at $60K / year
Another daughter in university at $16K /yr.
Still got a mortgage because we started our life quite late.
Enjoy the concert, he's a great musician.
Sorry...no money for tickets.
Wife...a retired teacher on reduced pension (retired early)
Me... pension and some other income plus my own business that has employees to pay.
One daughter in medical school at $60K / year
Another daughter in university at $16K /yr.
Still got a mortgage because we started our life quite late.
Enjoy the concert, he's a great musician.
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