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Note: Comments that appear on the site are not the opinion of SooToday.com. Keep discussions civil and on topic. Refrain from obscenity and don't post anything that your grandmother would be ashamed to read. Those who do not abide by these guidelines will have their membership revoked without notice. If you see an abusive post, please click the link beside the post to report it.
Grace 9/14/2012 5:52:42 AM Report
Movies don't kill people...
People kill people...
Then use lame excuses to cover up and place blame on actions that were truly their own.
Then watch the media try to give their lack of reasoning validation.
Movies don't kill people...
People kill people...
Then use lame excuses to cover up and place blame on actions that were truly their own.
Then watch the media try to give their lack of reasoning validation.
Grump 9/14/2012 6:42:18 AM Report
Good morning everyone, a lively discussion last evening. The teachers say their problem is not with the school boards but with McGuinty. Well that is fair enough so I wonder why the action against the school boards and students. It seems to me that they are trying to speak out of both sides of their mouths. The son of a friend of mine teaches in the States were wages are considerably less than here. His State got to the point were it sent out notices that until further notice they would not be able to pay salaries so they could leave or carry on until the State could start paying again. If these teachers don't get the fact that that is where Ontario is heading then they are not bright enough to be teaching anyone. Have a great day everyone.
Good morning everyone, a lively discussion last evening. The teachers say their problem is not with the school boards but with McGuinty. Well that is fair enough so I wonder why the action against the school boards and students. It seems to me that they are trying to speak out of both sides of their mouths. The son of a friend of mine teaches in the States were wages are considerably less than here. His State got to the point were it sent out notices that until further notice they would not be able to pay salaries so they could leave or carry on until the State could start paying again. If these teachers don't get the fact that that is where Ontario is heading then they are not bright enough to be teaching anyone. Have a great day everyone.
theprotector 9/14/2012 7:16:34 AM Report
wow you really dont get it do you? Not a clue, sad really, I feel sorry for you!
wow you really dont get it do you? Not a clue, sad really, I feel sorry for you!
right wing 9/14/2012 8:11:29 AM Report
Which one doesn't "get it", Grace or Grump or everybody and what is "it".
I know I get "it", do you get "it" Grace - Grump?
Which one doesn't "get it", Grace or Grump or everybody and what is "it".
I know I get "it", do you get "it" Grace - Grump?
right wing 9/14/2012 8:21:43 AM Report
“Democrats are unwavering in our support of equal opportunity for all Americans. That’s why we’ve worked to pass every one of our nation’s Civil Rights laws… On every civil rights issue, Democrats have led the fight.”
Short history lesson for the day brought to you courtesy of googling, copying and pasting.
These are nice and short, easy to understand, true and right to the point unlike those long boorish 1/2 truths that other guy has been posting.
June 24, 1940
Republican Party platform calls for integration of the armed forces; for the balance of his terms in office, FDR refuses to order it
September 30, 1953
Earl Warren, California’s three-term Republican Governor and 1948 Republican vice presidential nominee, nominated to be Chief Justice; wrote landmark decision in Brown v. Board of Education
November 25, 1955
Eisenhower administration bans racial segregation of interstate bus travel
March 12, 1956
Ninety-seven Democrats in Congress condemn Supreme Court’s decision in Brown v. Board of Education, and pledge to continue segregation
June 5, 1956
Republican federal judge Frank Johnson rules in favor of Rosa Parks in decision striking down “blacks in the back of the bus” law
November 6, 1956
African-American civil rights leaders Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy vote for Republican Dwight Eisenhower for President
“Democrats are unwavering in our support of equal opportunity for all Americans. That’s why we’ve worked to pass every one of our nation’s Civil Rights laws… On every civil rights issue, Democrats have led the fight.”
Short history lesson for the day brought to you courtesy of googling, copying and pasting.
These are nice and short, easy to understand, true and right to the point unlike those long boorish 1/2 truths that other guy has been posting.
June 24, 1940
Republican Party platform calls for integration of the armed forces; for the balance of his terms in office, FDR refuses to order it
September 30, 1953
Earl Warren, California’s three-term Republican Governor and 1948 Republican vice presidential nominee, nominated to be Chief Justice; wrote landmark decision in Brown v. Board of Education
November 25, 1955
Eisenhower administration bans racial segregation of interstate bus travel
March 12, 1956
Ninety-seven Democrats in Congress condemn Supreme Court’s decision in Brown v. Board of Education, and pledge to continue segregation
June 5, 1956
Republican federal judge Frank Johnson rules in favor of Rosa Parks in decision striking down “blacks in the back of the bus” law
November 6, 1956
African-American civil rights leaders Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy vote for Republican Dwight Eisenhower for President
jean-paul 9/14/2012 8:26:05 AM Report
GRUMP, the rat speaks again,quack quack quack,and he does,nt get it.
GRUMP, the rat speaks again,quack quack quack,and he does,nt get it.
Mr. Poster 9/14/2012 8:36:12 AM Report
Prediction... 1.Another Ontario election in the spring.
2. the NDP will be swept into power as voters are tired of the Libs and Conservatives.
3. Tony Martin will be courted to run but will pass.
Prediction... 1.Another Ontario election in the spring.
2. the NDP will be swept into power as voters are tired of the Libs and Conservatives.
3. Tony Martin will be courted to run but will pass.
Right Winger 9/14/2012 8:48:08 AM Report
Again folks teachers are neither overpaid or underpaid. They receive the right amount of compensation. The right to strike and to lockout government workers should be taken away. And don't give me your civil liberties crap. We the consumer of government services can't seek the services elsewhere. And the public servants know it. If garbage collection is stopped we can't get someone else to collect it. If teachers are locked out we can't send our kids elsewhere for the short term. Its not like if the Metro workers go on strike, we can go to Romes or Pinos. Its not like if Essar is locked out the steel buyers can go elsewhere.
What incentive is there for the public sector to resolve a work stoppage other than it is dragging on and costing them money. So either management settles in order to apease voters, or workers settle out of necessity. Who wins? The only side that has the opportunity to win is the employee with better compensation. Management loses no matter what and the consumer loses no matter what.
Again folks teachers are neither overpaid or underpaid. They receive the right amount of compensation. The right to strike and to lockout government workers should be taken away. And don't give me your civil liberties crap. We the consumer of government services can't seek the services elsewhere. And the public servants know it. If garbage collection is stopped we can't get someone else to collect it. If teachers are locked out we can't send our kids elsewhere for the short term. Its not like if the Metro workers go on strike, we can go to Romes or Pinos. Its not like if Essar is locked out the steel buyers can go elsewhere.
What incentive is there for the public sector to resolve a work stoppage other than it is dragging on and costing them money. So either management settles in order to apease voters, or workers settle out of necessity. Who wins? The only side that has the opportunity to win is the employee with better compensation. Management loses no matter what and the consumer loses no matter what.
Grace 9/14/2012 9:02:02 AM Report
This movie is coming out in November.
Hope it doesn't whip the Dem masses into a frenzy!
http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/first-lincoln-trailer-debuts-daniel-day-lewis-presidential-234902598.html
This movie is coming out in November.
Hope it doesn't whip the Dem masses into a frenzy!
http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/first-lincoln-trailer-debuts-daniel-day-lewis-presidential-234902598.html
right wing 9/14/2012 9:02:25 AM Report
No wonder some hate googling, copying and pasting.
"The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan (OTPP) is incredibly rich. In fact, if it were a sovereign wealth fund, it would be the 12th largest in the world. The OTPP ranks up there with investment funds that own oil in Saudi Arabia, diamond mines in Africa and forests in Norway. The teachers’ pension fund is worth over $117 billion and made Ontario teachers just over $11.7 billion in profits, last year. Despite its immense wealth, Ontario taxpayers will contribute over $1.4 billion of education tax dollars, to the pension fund this year."
No wonder some hate googling, copying and pasting.
"The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan (OTPP) is incredibly rich. In fact, if it were a sovereign wealth fund, it would be the 12th largest in the world. The OTPP ranks up there with investment funds that own oil in Saudi Arabia, diamond mines in Africa and forests in Norway. The teachers’ pension fund is worth over $117 billion and made Ontario teachers just over $11.7 billion in profits, last year. Despite its immense wealth, Ontario taxpayers will contribute over $1.4 billion of education tax dollars, to the pension fund this year."
right wing 9/14/2012 9:12:41 AM Report
...and so many of them claim NDP or Liberal (whoever is paying them the best at the time) alignment and vilify the evil corporations.
Yes that evil Mike Harris, how dare he try and reign in their pay and make them accountable in the classroom...how dare he!
...and so many of them claim NDP or Liberal (whoever is paying them the best at the time) alignment and vilify the evil corporations.
Yes that evil Mike Harris, how dare he try and reign in their pay and make them accountable in the classroom...how dare he!
flyhawk25 9/14/2012 9:19:44 AM Report
So the teachers are withdrawing 'voluntary' services.
What's McGuinty going to do - legislate them to work after school for no pay?
So for all the talk about parent volunteers - why not check to see what percentage of after school activities are using parents.
I thought so. Damn few.
If this was about money or fringe benefits I would question teachers' motives.
It is not.
It is about a government deciding to make one group the target for supposed fiscal restraints in a province drowning in debt by a government who paid its own politicians nutty raises.
Now they see teachers as a 'soft target'.
In many ways they are.
McGuinty was counting on teachers to roll over on volunteering because he knows how deeply these people care about their kids.
That's why they volunteer.
Teachers know that they're in a public opinion battle that is uphill - witness some of the comments on here.
However they are also intelligent enough to know that this too shall pass.
In the end the McGuinty crowd will get turfed just like the Rae government was and the pendulum will swing again.
What will be left is a province in the fiscal crapper with new hospitals and schools mortgaged on our grandchildren.
School activities will continue, kids will learn in spite of it all and Dalton will end up in a fancy law firm with a great salary and a monster pension.
Hell - even Mike Harris got another job.
So the teachers are withdrawing 'voluntary' services.
What's McGuinty going to do - legislate them to work after school for no pay?
So for all the talk about parent volunteers - why not check to see what percentage of after school activities are using parents.
I thought so. Damn few.
If this was about money or fringe benefits I would question teachers' motives.
It is not.
It is about a government deciding to make one group the target for supposed fiscal restraints in a province drowning in debt by a government who paid its own politicians nutty raises.
Now they see teachers as a 'soft target'.
In many ways they are.
McGuinty was counting on teachers to roll over on volunteering because he knows how deeply these people care about their kids.
That's why they volunteer.
Teachers know that they're in a public opinion battle that is uphill - witness some of the comments on here.
However they are also intelligent enough to know that this too shall pass.
In the end the McGuinty crowd will get turfed just like the Rae government was and the pendulum will swing again.
What will be left is a province in the fiscal crapper with new hospitals and schools mortgaged on our grandchildren.
School activities will continue, kids will learn in spite of it all and Dalton will end up in a fancy law firm with a great salary and a monster pension.
Hell - even Mike Harris got another job.
steelworker 9/14/2012 9:21:17 AM Report
Judging by the caliber of some of the graduates coming out of high school Bozo the clown could do a better job (and for less money).
Judging by the caliber of some of the graduates coming out of high school Bozo the clown could do a better job (and for less money).
Mr. Poster 9/14/2012 9:32:53 AM Report
I think we have to keep in mind that whatever teachers now have they negotiated with the Province of Ontario. For whatever reason(s) teachers now have what the province felt was deserved. Yes...the teachers pension fund is enormous but lets not take that away from them. They have, over the years, hired and paid handsome salaries to the investment personnel they employed. THEY did there job...the fund did well. The teachers union would be the first to say payment to these investors was money well spent. Sometimes I get the feeling that many feel teachers raided the Ontario coffers...they did not...they negotiated in good faith.I would not want to go to a USA type of situation where teachers are under paid. You deliver your child everyday to a teacher that spends more time with that child than many parents do in a day. Would you not want the best for your child?
I think we have to keep in mind that whatever teachers now have they negotiated with the Province of Ontario. For whatever reason(s) teachers now have what the province felt was deserved. Yes...the teachers pension fund is enormous but lets not take that away from them. They have, over the years, hired and paid handsome salaries to the investment personnel they employed. THEY did there job...the fund did well. The teachers union would be the first to say payment to these investors was money well spent. Sometimes I get the feeling that many feel teachers raided the Ontario coffers...they did not...they negotiated in good faith.I would not want to go to a USA type of situation where teachers are under paid. You deliver your child everyday to a teacher that spends more time with that child than many parents do in a day. Would you not want the best for your child?
right wing 9/14/2012 9:44:24 AM Report
"Would you not want the best for your child?"
Yes we do but all cannot afford private schools or are able to home school in order to get it.
"Would you not want the best for your child?"
Yes we do but all cannot afford private schools or are able to home school in order to get it.
flyhawk25 9/14/2012 10:10:09 AM Report
right wing...typical response.
A simple either/or solution.
Fortunately life is not that simple.
Never mind muddying the waters with the whole OTPP argument.
Even Harris wasn't dumb enough to tackle that one.
This is about a government arbitrarily taking away bargaining rights and legislating employees to work after school for free.
To quote myself - we may be civil servants but we will never be civil slaves.
right wing...typical response.
A simple either/or solution.
Fortunately life is not that simple.
Never mind muddying the waters with the whole OTPP argument.
Even Harris wasn't dumb enough to tackle that one.
This is about a government arbitrarily taking away bargaining rights and legislating employees to work after school for free.
To quote myself - we may be civil servants but we will never be civil slaves.
right wing 9/14/2012 10:17:10 AM Report
Yes it's hard to tackle an organization that has so much power due to their enormous wealth.
Sounds like the statements I hear about an evil corporation.....
Yes it's hard to tackle an organization that has so much power due to their enormous wealth.
Sounds like the statements I hear about an evil corporation.....
Sam C 9/14/2012 10:20:23 AM Report
Mr Poster... thank you! The OTPP may well be one of the wealthiest pension funds in the world, but why should anyone hold that against the teachers? Too often we have heard of private pension funds that have been mismanaged and have a significant shortfall, or that have disappeared altogether. Not long ago there was a hue and cry over the CPP fund.
Why begrudge a sector that has an adequate fund to meet its current and future obligations?
Also, many people fail to realize the contributions made by teachers are significant. For 2012 members contribute:
- 10.8% of annual salary up to the CPP contributions and benefits limit; plus,
- 12.4% of any salary above the CPP limit ($50,100).
For example, a teacher making $80,000 would pay $9118 towards their pension.
http://tinyurl.com/otpp-rates
Mr Poster... thank you! The OTPP may well be one of the wealthiest pension funds in the world, but why should anyone hold that against the teachers? Too often we have heard of private pension funds that have been mismanaged and have a significant shortfall, or that have disappeared altogether. Not long ago there was a hue and cry over the CPP fund.
Why begrudge a sector that has an adequate fund to meet its current and future obligations?
Also, many people fail to realize the contributions made by teachers are significant. For 2012 members contribute:
- 10.8% of annual salary up to the CPP contributions and benefits limit; plus,
- 12.4% of any salary above the CPP limit ($50,100).
For example, a teacher making $80,000 would pay $9118 towards their pension.
http://tinyurl.com/otpp-rates
mvnnth 9/14/2012 10:47:23 AM Report
"So for all the talk about parent volunteers - why not check to see what percentage of after school activities are using parents
I thought so. Damn few"
Has there been any concerted effort on the part of the schools to enlist volunteers to run the after school programs? I am not aware of any such effort. Without that effort is it possible that parents think the schools are running a "closed" shop? Don't write-off parents as volunteers. Those factors might answer your "Damn few" comment and not, by inference, that the teachers are, by default, the only resource available.
"So for all the talk about parent volunteers - why not check to see what percentage of after school activities are using parents
I thought so. Damn few"
Has there been any concerted effort on the part of the schools to enlist volunteers to run the after school programs? I am not aware of any such effort. Without that effort is it possible that parents think the schools are running a "closed" shop? Don't write-off parents as volunteers. Those factors might answer your "Damn few" comment and not, by inference, that the teachers are, by default, the only resource available.
bluesslinger 9/14/2012 10:53:42 AM Report
Grace, as you know, that movie is an excuse to test the will and resolve of the US. The Islamist extremists sense fear from the OPUS. Expect Barak Hussein Obama to lead the charge demanding international laws forbidding the ridicule of Islam.
When Libya acted up in 1986 Reagan, showing strong decisive leadership, bombed their leader's tent. As a result Libya behaved herself for about 25 years.
That is until Barak Hussein Obama came along, apologizing, capitulating and projecting weakness.
All that appeasement, bowing down and sucking up does not seem to be working to well for BHO in the Arab street.
It is a foreign policy FAIL.
AND
"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 48% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns 45%"
Have a great day!
Grace, as you know, that movie is an excuse to test the will and resolve of the US. The Islamist extremists sense fear from the OPUS. Expect Barak Hussein Obama to lead the charge demanding international laws forbidding the ridicule of Islam.
When Libya acted up in 1986 Reagan, showing strong decisive leadership, bombed their leader's tent. As a result Libya behaved herself for about 25 years.
That is until Barak Hussein Obama came along, apologizing, capitulating and projecting weakness.
All that appeasement, bowing down and sucking up does not seem to be working to well for BHO in the Arab street.
It is a foreign policy FAIL.
AND
"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 48% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns 45%"
Have a great day!
tuffy1 9/14/2012 10:54:50 AM Report
Just a question.
since the teachers are with drawing
from extra non classroom activities
are thry also going to stay in the
classroom and forego their p.d. day next
week.
Just a question.
since the teachers are with drawing
from extra non classroom activities
are thry also going to stay in the
classroom and forego their p.d. day next
week.
flyhawk25 9/14/2012 10:55:55 AM Report
I am "inferring" nothing.
You seem to suggest that parents aren't volunteering because they are not asked.
I dispute that.
I tried for many years to encourage that participation and the response was thin.
That has been my experience.
There are many excuses and some reasons.
I really don't care - if you want to do it go ahead. Be prepared for a police background check as that is often the norm.
Be prepared to spend your own money for incidentals.
Be prepared to put up with parental interference from the vocal minority who complain about everything.
Good luck.
I am "inferring" nothing.
You seem to suggest that parents aren't volunteering because they are not asked.
I dispute that.
I tried for many years to encourage that participation and the response was thin.
That has been my experience.
There are many excuses and some reasons.
I really don't care - if you want to do it go ahead. Be prepared for a police background check as that is often the norm.
Be prepared to spend your own money for incidentals.
Be prepared to put up with parental interference from the vocal minority who complain about everything.
Good luck.
flyhawk25 9/14/2012 10:58:30 AM Report
tuffy 1...PA days are legislated. The teachers must attend. Even if they do not want to because they are contractually obligated.
Unlike the government they are honoring their collective agreements.
tuffy 1...PA days are legislated. The teachers must attend. Even if they do not want to because they are contractually obligated.
Unlike the government they are honoring their collective agreements.
mvnnth 9/14/2012 11:01:25 AM Report
"This is about a government arbitrarily taking away bargaining rights and legislating employees to work after school for free."
For goodness sake, the "bargaining
rights" issue has already been resolved by the highest court in the land and is clearly against the teachers' civil rights. Let that be, the government will lose when they are taken to court. As to the assertion that they are ordered to "work after school for free", plain and simply that's nonsense. They are volunteers, no? Well OK, if they are not, get some volunteers in there and, if we can't, then review the programs in that light. As I previously said, not all these teachers are a good fit with the after school programs they are running. Take a drama program as a for instance. The community theatre crowd would love to be involved with kids in that area. I'm sure there are many more "for instances" like that example.
"This is about a government arbitrarily taking away bargaining rights and legislating employees to work after school for free."
For goodness sake, the "bargaining
rights" issue has already been resolved by the highest court in the land and is clearly against the teachers' civil rights. Let that be, the government will lose when they are taken to court. As to the assertion that they are ordered to "work after school for free", plain and simply that's nonsense. They are volunteers, no? Well OK, if they are not, get some volunteers in there and, if we can't, then review the programs in that light. As I previously said, not all these teachers are a good fit with the after school programs they are running. Take a drama program as a for instance. The community theatre crowd would love to be involved with kids in that area. I'm sure there are many more "for instances" like that example.
Big Bad Bob 9/14/2012 11:17:16 AM Report
Having just returned home from my annual summer outing, I find the current discussions on this site of Canadian issues –federal, provincial and municipal – and of international issues of valid concern to Canada and its citizens, to be lively, informative and interesting. On the other hand, the usual detailed drivel about matters internal to the United States and of legitimate concern only to the citizens of that country are as tiresome as ever.
Having just returned home from my annual summer outing, I find the current discussions on this site of Canadian issues –federal, provincial and municipal – and of international issues of valid concern to Canada and its citizens, to be lively, informative and interesting. On the other hand, the usual detailed drivel about matters internal to the United States and of legitimate concern only to the citizens of that country are as tiresome as ever.
All Is Well 9/14/2012 11:20:18 AM Report
Yes, Sam, it is a contributory pension plan, matched in part by the government. It sure would be great if all companies allowed and matched that baby.
But considering that most people don't have a pension, less the CPP, then pension is just part of the story here, unless you want to say that a retired teacher make more than a lot of Ontarians do working for a living. This is about a two year pay freeze. This is about a required field of work, in which, once again, the public taxpayer, must choose what it appropriate. Education forecast for 2012 is over $24 B. It second only to Health Care in costs.
Yes, Sam, it is a contributory pension plan, matched in part by the government. It sure would be great if all companies allowed and matched that baby.
But considering that most people don't have a pension, less the CPP, then pension is just part of the story here, unless you want to say that a retired teacher make more than a lot of Ontarians do working for a living. This is about a two year pay freeze. This is about a required field of work, in which, once again, the public taxpayer, must choose what it appropriate. Education forecast for 2012 is over $24 B. It second only to Health Care in costs.
mvnnth 9/14/2012 11:26:01 AM Report
You seem to suggest that parents aren't volunteering because they are not asked.
I dispute that.
I tried for many years to encourage that participation and the response was thin.
If you aren't "inferring" then I'm not "suggesting". There is no discernible effort on the part of the school system to recruit volunteers to run after school programs. If there was you might be pleasantly surprised by the response. If volunteers can't be found then the program will have to be dropped unless we want to pay to have it continued.
You seem to suggest that parents aren't volunteering because they are not asked.
I dispute that.
I tried for many years to encourage that participation and the response was thin.
If you aren't "inferring" then I'm not "suggesting". There is no discernible effort on the part of the school system to recruit volunteers to run after school programs. If there was you might be pleasantly surprised by the response. If volunteers can't be found then the program will have to be dropped unless we want to pay to have it continued.
theprotector 9/14/2012 11:58:13 AM Report
read the stats, private schools you pay more and get less.
Its not like working at essar, you spend 75 % of your time standing around talking about the work you should be doing or owning your own business trying to figure out how to screw over your employees to put more money in your pocket.
read the stats, private schools you pay more and get less.
Its not like working at essar, you spend 75 % of your time standing around talking about the work you should be doing or owning your own business trying to figure out how to screw over your employees to put more money in your pocket.
MikeyJ 9/14/2012 12:15:46 PM Report
Right Wing,
I am at times curious if you actually stand behind some of your postings or merely post them for the 'thrill' of inciting heated debate and response.
Right Wing,
I am at times curious if you actually stand behind some of your postings or merely post them for the 'thrill' of inciting heated debate and response.
Oldie Goldie 9/14/2012 12:37:41 PM Report
No--All is Well--The Teachers predicament is about the loss of Bargaining Rights that are guaranteed by the Ontario Department of Labour.
The Teachers are not hired by the Government---consequently they are not Government workers---They are hired by each local School Board and have negotited with the Boards for over 40 years.
This year the Government told the School Boards how to negotiate and made it almost impossible to negotiate a fair settlement when the Government told the Boards what to do and refused to negotiate directly with the Teachers.
The recent Legislation by the Province will be found illegal when it goes to Court because negotiated contracts were violated.When the Court decides the issues recompense will be awarded to the Teachers retroactively and the Government will wish that a fair contract had been negotiated properly.
As for the Teachers Pension Plan--it is contributory by both sides in a negotiated settlement.Many people are jealous of the Teacher's Pension Fund but it was done legally and has become very successful. You can't blame the Teachers for success.
The Teachers are calling for a strike vote as per the Ontario Labour laws and they could, legally, go on strike once that phase of negotiations is over and the proper time limits have been met under the laws.
This issue is far from over and the Provincial Government is merely putting on it's power act to show the people of Ontario that they are standing up to the " Enemy " when the " Enemy " is the deficit caused by Government overspending.
It is all political with no regard for Ontario Labour Laws.
No--All is Well--The Teachers predicament is about the loss of Bargaining Rights that are guaranteed by the Ontario Department of Labour.
The Teachers are not hired by the Government---consequently they are not Government workers---They are hired by each local School Board and have negotited with the Boards for over 40 years.
This year the Government told the School Boards how to negotiate and made it almost impossible to negotiate a fair settlement when the Government told the Boards what to do and refused to negotiate directly with the Teachers.
The recent Legislation by the Province will be found illegal when it goes to Court because negotiated contracts were violated.When the Court decides the issues recompense will be awarded to the Teachers retroactively and the Government will wish that a fair contract had been negotiated properly.
As for the Teachers Pension Plan--it is contributory by both sides in a negotiated settlement.Many people are jealous of the Teacher's Pension Fund but it was done legally and has become very successful. You can't blame the Teachers for success.
The Teachers are calling for a strike vote as per the Ontario Labour laws and they could, legally, go on strike once that phase of negotiations is over and the proper time limits have been met under the laws.
This issue is far from over and the Provincial Government is merely putting on it's power act to show the people of Ontario that they are standing up to the " Enemy " when the " Enemy " is the deficit caused by Government overspending.
It is all political with no regard for Ontario Labour Laws.
asIseeit 9/14/2012 12:57:21 PM Report
MikeyJ, they love to post just for the sake of posting. They do not have a life, or semblance of one. There are a lot of posters repeating their daily mantra. Glad I have a life. I pity them.
MikeyJ, they love to post just for the sake of posting. They do not have a life, or semblance of one. There are a lot of posters repeating their daily mantra. Glad I have a life. I pity them.
Sam C 9/14/2012 1:34:49 PM Report
All is well... I was only responding to those who point to the teachers pension and say "look at what they get!"
Yes, the OTPP is better than most, but it costs the members significantly more than most private pensions. Most employees who do have a contributory plan do not contribute 10-13% of their gross pay toward that plan.
All is well... I was only responding to those who point to the teachers pension and say "look at what they get!"
Yes, the OTPP is better than most, but it costs the members significantly more than most private pensions. Most employees who do have a contributory plan do not contribute 10-13% of their gross pay toward that plan.
asIseeit 9/14/2012 1:41:36 PM Report
steelworker calling people names is low on an internet blog site. This is a site for back and forth conversation and opinion. Since I have come on this site I am afraid to post anything just incase I get knocked down.
steelworker calling people names is low on an internet blog site. This is a site for back and forth conversation and opinion. Since I have come on this site I am afraid to post anything just incase I get knocked down.
cathyh 9/14/2012 1:46:45 PM Report
asiseeit: You're opinion is just as valid as anyone else's on this site. Don't let any of the other posters intimidate you.
asiseeit: You're opinion is just as valid as anyone else's on this site. Don't let any of the other posters intimidate you.
All Is Well 9/14/2012 1:53:12 PM Report
The taxpayer pays the wages and pensions, owns the schools and property on which the school sits, maintains the properties on a daily basis, administers educational guidelines, and hires and fires. The board is not there to do anything they want. It is the Ministry of Education, ultimately the taxpayer, who has the final say. I'd say the taxpayer has a vested interest. I don't begrudge the pension fund, at all. It's too bad all pension funds were, at least, fully funded. No one on this site has called the teachers the "Enemy". Those are your words and words of those who need to create the "illusion" of being an ally of the "taxpayer". Lest we forget that we are talking about a two-year pay freeze and not about the end of the world.
The taxpayer pays the wages and pensions, owns the schools and property on which the school sits, maintains the properties on a daily basis, administers educational guidelines, and hires and fires. The board is not there to do anything they want. It is the Ministry of Education, ultimately the taxpayer, who has the final say. I'd say the taxpayer has a vested interest. I don't begrudge the pension fund, at all. It's too bad all pension funds were, at least, fully funded. No one on this site has called the teachers the "Enemy". Those are your words and words of those who need to create the "illusion" of being an ally of the "taxpayer". Lest we forget that we are talking about a two-year pay freeze and not about the end of the world.
cathyh 9/14/2012 2:08:51 PM Report
All Is Well: I beg to differ. We are talking about the government running roughshod over the bargaining rights of teachers.
All Is Well: I beg to differ. We are talking about the government running roughshod over the bargaining rights of teachers.
senormex 9/14/2012 2:29:56 PM Report
It is easy to see the anti teacher sentiment here is as usual...out of touch with reality.
No one has mentioned that all teacher pensions are reduced by 13% at the age of 65. The CPP and OAS pretty much make up the difference lost.
Everyone who chooses to become educated has more opportunities for a better paying job.
If you choose to not get an education or you do not like to work, you will most likely never be in the position for a pension of any kind.
Instead, with little knowledge of what a teacher actually does, it is easy to stand on the sideline and throw rocks.What a joke that is.
I was a totally committed educator and my work day at school was never less than eight or nine hours, not including time spent at home marking and preparing tests, and evaluating student work.
When I taught elementary school volunteered to coach a number of sports that involved commitment and a lot of extra hours of unpaid time. It was never about the money. It was to provide opportunities for children to participate and excel in a number of areas.
People here think that having volunteers help out is the way to go. Try enlisting folks, who in most cases have jobs, is next to impossible.
If you think that teaching is fun and nothing more than babysitting, try it and I am sure you will not last long.
The number of posters here who continually decry educators are probably those who never worked at jobs that offered the type pension plan that teachers are enjoying today.That is not the fault of teachers, it is yours.
I am enjoying my hard earned teacher pension and will continue to do so for a number of years, I hope.
I was lucky enough to retire at 53 after 32 years of teaching. You have to hate that too.
As much as you hate the Catholic schools, they accepted the deal.Kudos to them.
It is easy to see the anti teacher sentiment here is as usual...out of touch with reality.
No one has mentioned that all teacher pensions are reduced by 13% at the age of 65. The CPP and OAS pretty much make up the difference lost.
Everyone who chooses to become educated has more opportunities for a better paying job.
If you choose to not get an education or you do not like to work, you will most likely never be in the position for a pension of any kind.
Instead, with little knowledge of what a teacher actually does, it is easy to stand on the sideline and throw rocks.What a joke that is.
I was a totally committed educator and my work day at school was never less than eight or nine hours, not including time spent at home marking and preparing tests, and evaluating student work.
When I taught elementary school volunteered to coach a number of sports that involved commitment and a lot of extra hours of unpaid time. It was never about the money. It was to provide opportunities for children to participate and excel in a number of areas.
People here think that having volunteers help out is the way to go. Try enlisting folks, who in most cases have jobs, is next to impossible.
If you think that teaching is fun and nothing more than babysitting, try it and I am sure you will not last long.
The number of posters here who continually decry educators are probably those who never worked at jobs that offered the type pension plan that teachers are enjoying today.That is not the fault of teachers, it is yours.
I am enjoying my hard earned teacher pension and will continue to do so for a number of years, I hope.
I was lucky enough to retire at 53 after 32 years of teaching. You have to hate that too.
As much as you hate the Catholic schools, they accepted the deal.Kudos to them.
flyhawk25 9/14/2012 3:34:20 PM Report
senormex...well said. A waste of internet space but nicely put never the less.
senormex...well said. A waste of internet space but nicely put never the less.
Oldie Goldie 9/14/2012 3:45:05 PM Report
All is Well---The dispute with the Teachers and the Province is not about a 2 year wage freeze---That is only 1 part of it.
The Teachers negotiated to get everything they got--all done under the Labour Laws of Ontario. The Gov't is taking away those rights to negotiate.
Automatic increases for some Teachers were included in the last set of Negotiations to take place under any new contract. It was all agreed to under proper negotiations. The Gov't is taking those increases away too.
The Gov't is also reducing the amount of sick day banking that was also negotiated in many past contracts.
The Gov't did NOT sit down with Teachers and try to reach a settlement.
The Teachers were told what their contract would be for the next 2 years.
The rights to bargain were removed from the Teachers and that is more important to the Teachers than all the changes that the Gov't tried to impose.
If the Gov't gets away with this Legislation they could do the same for
anyone in the future.
Let me ask you what any Labour Union would do if a contract detrimental to them was imposed on them.
Many people don't like Unions but removing their rights to bargain is not going to accomplish anything.
Unions began when workers were treated with sub-standard pay and no benefits and a 13 hour day without overtime and 24 hours straight when they changed from the 13 hour day to the 11 hour day each week among many other detrimental issues that Employers imposed on them.
I have always stated that Unions would not have started if Employees had been treated with respect.
All is Well---The dispute with the Teachers and the Province is not about a 2 year wage freeze---That is only 1 part of it.
The Teachers negotiated to get everything they got--all done under the Labour Laws of Ontario. The Gov't is taking away those rights to negotiate.
Automatic increases for some Teachers were included in the last set of Negotiations to take place under any new contract. It was all agreed to under proper negotiations. The Gov't is taking those increases away too.
The Gov't is also reducing the amount of sick day banking that was also negotiated in many past contracts.
The Gov't did NOT sit down with Teachers and try to reach a settlement.
The Teachers were told what their contract would be for the next 2 years.
The rights to bargain were removed from the Teachers and that is more important to the Teachers than all the changes that the Gov't tried to impose.
If the Gov't gets away with this Legislation they could do the same for
anyone in the future.
Let me ask you what any Labour Union would do if a contract detrimental to them was imposed on them.
Many people don't like Unions but removing their rights to bargain is not going to accomplish anything.
Unions began when workers were treated with sub-standard pay and no benefits and a 13 hour day without overtime and 24 hours straight when they changed from the 13 hour day to the 11 hour day each week among many other detrimental issues that Employers imposed on them.
I have always stated that Unions would not have started if Employees had been treated with respect.
BIG BROTHER 9/14/2012 4:22:17 PM Report
Oldie,
Absolutely correct!
Furthermore, actions such as this, will only make a stronger case for the need of unions.
This is not 'playing the Charter of Rights Card'. This is taking the Charter and stomping on it! What other rights can be taken away with the stroke of a 'legislative' pen.
Oldie,
Absolutely correct!
Furthermore, actions such as this, will only make a stronger case for the need of unions.
This is not 'playing the Charter of Rights Card'. This is taking the Charter and stomping on it! What other rights can be taken away with the stroke of a 'legislative' pen.
Snobank 9/14/2012 5:41:20 PM Report
Fly, I assume that your "waste of internet" space comment was not a criticism of seniormex but a comment on the futility of making his points to those who refuse to fairly consider them?
Fly, I assume that your "waste of internet" space comment was not a criticism of seniormex but a comment on the futility of making his points to those who refuse to fairly consider them?
Oldie Goldie 9/14/2012 5:47:09 PM Report
David Orazietti voted the Party Line when he voted to pass this Legislation to suppress Teachers.
Before David became an M.P.P. he was the Chief Negotiator for the Secondary School Teachers.
My how he changed when he was elected.
He knows---first hand--how important it is for Teachers to have Bargaining Rights.
He had better hope that he remains an M.P.P. because the Teachers may not let him back in the Union if he does not get re-elected just like it happened to Bud Wildman.
I'll bet he will be absent from his Office to-morrow when the Teachers march.
David Orazietti voted the Party Line when he voted to pass this Legislation to suppress Teachers.
Before David became an M.P.P. he was the Chief Negotiator for the Secondary School Teachers.
My how he changed when he was elected.
He knows---first hand--how important it is for Teachers to have Bargaining Rights.
He had better hope that he remains an M.P.P. because the Teachers may not let him back in the Union if he does not get re-elected just like it happened to Bud Wildman.
I'll bet he will be absent from his Office to-morrow when the Teachers march.
All Is Well 9/14/2012 6:39:14 PM Report
The constituency office is not open on Saturdays. If the union did not check this out beforehand, then they might be a little remiss in their duty to ensure the office was open. If they knew it wasn't open, but scheduled it anyways, it was to have an event to go along with the teachers and educators vote. If the union leaders want to meet with David, I am sure he would. But, I don't think that is what the union really wants to do. I think the union wants to protest at an empty office on Saturday and we will get all the usual spin about it.
The constituency office is not open on Saturdays. If the union did not check this out beforehand, then they might be a little remiss in their duty to ensure the office was open. If they knew it wasn't open, but scheduled it anyways, it was to have an event to go along with the teachers and educators vote. If the union leaders want to meet with David, I am sure he would. But, I don't think that is what the union really wants to do. I think the union wants to protest at an empty office on Saturday and we will get all the usual spin about it.
right wing 9/14/2012 6:49:43 PM Report
"Instead, with little knowledge of what a teacher actually does, it is easy to stand on the sideline and throw rocks.What a joke that is."
Oh please, do enlighten us as to what you "brain surgeons" and "rocket scientists" do that us common folks just cannot understand.
The teachers union it is the only thing protecting many of the dead beat teachers as the "market" is basically flooded with teachers, that's how hard it is to become one.
"Instead, with little knowledge of what a teacher actually does, it is easy to stand on the sideline and throw rocks.What a joke that is."
Oh please, do enlighten us as to what you "brain surgeons" and "rocket scientists" do that us common folks just cannot understand.
The teachers union it is the only thing protecting many of the dead beat teachers as the "market" is basically flooded with teachers, that's how hard it is to become one.
right wing 9/14/2012 6:58:31 PM Report
So the union reps left the bargaining table six months ago after one hour (according to the libs) and never returned.
Wow the teachers sure got their moneys worth...all those dues for one hour.
So the union reps left the bargaining table six months ago after one hour (according to the libs) and never returned.
Wow the teachers sure got their moneys worth...all those dues for one hour.
ROLAND_ROLLY 9/14/2012 7:31:43 PM Report
I will vote for the local stray cat before voting Liberal.
This govenment 'took' away accumulated sick days. Others who took days off obviously didn't lose them. Foolish me who actually went to work.
I am penalized for not taking the sick days. What people forget is these were negotiated as part of a package, they came out of the negotiated moneys.
Thanks to the Liberal govenment, they 'took' these. Just as bad as someone 'taking' money out of your bank account. We all know what that is called... !
Ontario civil servants are next. Anyone that this government thinks they can push around will come under attack.
David O better get ready to join his comrades in the teaching profession. Turn him over... he's done !
I will vote for the local stray cat before voting Liberal.
This govenment 'took' away accumulated sick days. Others who took days off obviously didn't lose them. Foolish me who actually went to work.
I am penalized for not taking the sick days. What people forget is these were negotiated as part of a package, they came out of the negotiated moneys.
Thanks to the Liberal govenment, they 'took' these. Just as bad as someone 'taking' money out of your bank account. We all know what that is called... !
Ontario civil servants are next. Anyone that this government thinks they can push around will come under attack.
David O better get ready to join his comrades in the teaching profession. Turn him over... he's done !
right wing 9/14/2012 8:06:27 PM Report
It looks great on them, and by them I mean McGuinty and the teachers union, they had their love in with the Liberals as long as all was coming their way and the Liberals sucked up the support.
It looks great on them, and by them I mean McGuinty and the teachers union, they had their love in with the Liberals as long as all was coming their way and the Liberals sucked up the support.
skipper dave 9/14/2012 8:22:52 PM Report
Go teachers go - To the rest - You really don't get it do you?
The reason we are in this mess is the insatiable greed of the money elite, be they bankers, brokers, Bay Street or Wall Street, take your pick. How many of us lay people know what a derivative is? The parasitic greed of the above has caused insurmountable damage amongst the masses in this economic meltdown. Not only did no one go to jail - They convinced the government to bail them out. Gives you an accurate accounting of who our governments serve whether liberal or conservative. Now the funny part. The western governments be they democrats or republicans or conservatives now turn on the taxpayers to pay off the debt incurred while trying to spend their way out of the meltdown. Whose pockets do you think they filled.
Folks it's not the TEACHERS who are the villains here! Christ in the states we now have some banks pointing their fingers at the government as being the culprit in providing housing for those who could ill afford it, meanwhile they have been bailed out by the taxpayers in the billions. Now that is big balls.
Go teachers go - To the rest - You really don't get it do you?
The reason we are in this mess is the insatiable greed of the money elite, be they bankers, brokers, Bay Street or Wall Street, take your pick. How many of us lay people know what a derivative is? The parasitic greed of the above has caused insurmountable damage amongst the masses in this economic meltdown. Not only did no one go to jail - They convinced the government to bail them out. Gives you an accurate accounting of who our governments serve whether liberal or conservative. Now the funny part. The western governments be they democrats or republicans or conservatives now turn on the taxpayers to pay off the debt incurred while trying to spend their way out of the meltdown. Whose pockets do you think they filled.
Folks it's not the TEACHERS who are the villains here! Christ in the states we now have some banks pointing their fingers at the government as being the culprit in providing housing for those who could ill afford it, meanwhile they have been bailed out by the taxpayers in the billions. Now that is big balls.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 8:24:57 PM Report
The OTPP is wealthy because of 2 reasons...
1. The teachers contribute over 10% of their wages to it.
2. It is very well managed. This wasn't always true, as the teachers negotiated control of their pension plan away from the gov't several years ago and it has been doing very well since then.
Don't confuse the OTPP with the teachers' unions, as they have nothing to do with each other.
I've also read a lot about generous retirement gratuities, but Huron Superior grandfathered those a long time ago. No teacher hired after Sept. 1, 1978 receives one.
The OTPP is wealthy because of 2 reasons...
1. The teachers contribute over 10% of their wages to it.
2. It is very well managed. This wasn't always true, as the teachers negotiated control of their pension plan away from the gov't several years ago and it has been doing very well since then.
Don't confuse the OTPP with the teachers' unions, as they have nothing to do with each other.
I've also read a lot about generous retirement gratuities, but Huron Superior grandfathered those a long time ago. No teacher hired after Sept. 1, 1978 receives one.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 8:38:41 PM Report
Roland Rolly...
My wife retired as a teacher several years ago...with the maximum number of accumulated sick days, 270. Had she used those sick days, it would have cost taxpayers $68000 in replacement costs.
Over 35 years she used a total of 62 days of the 700 she was eligible to take.
People fail to realize that, unlike most other jobs, teachers have to be replaced when they call in sick. At a cost to the taxpayer of around $250/day, supply teachers are expensive. Rewarding teachers that don't use their sick days unnecessarily saves taxpayers money.
Roland Rolly...
My wife retired as a teacher several years ago...with the maximum number of accumulated sick days, 270. Had she used those sick days, it would have cost taxpayers $68000 in replacement costs.
Over 35 years she used a total of 62 days of the 700 she was eligible to take.
People fail to realize that, unlike most other jobs, teachers have to be replaced when they call in sick. At a cost to the taxpayer of around $250/day, supply teachers are expensive. Rewarding teachers that don't use their sick days unnecessarily saves taxpayers money.
sparks7 9/14/2012 9:13:54 PM Report
skipper dave,
Now here is a funny part that just kills me.
AS we all know,from time to time the big banks get caught red handed stealing from people.A settlement is reached with the regulators and a fine is imposed.
Then these same banks get to write these fines off on their income tax as a business expense!
So in effect,the very people who have been ripped off are now helping the banks out with a large portion of their "fines". The mind boggles.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure I read this in the ROB years ago.
skipper dave,
Now here is a funny part that just kills me.
AS we all know,from time to time the big banks get caught red handed stealing from people.A settlement is reached with the regulators and a fine is imposed.
Then these same banks get to write these fines off on their income tax as a business expense!
So in effect,the very people who have been ripped off are now helping the banks out with a large portion of their "fines". The mind boggles.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure I read this in the ROB years ago.
right wing 9/14/2012 9:22:37 PM Report
Jimssm
You conveniently forgot one.
The most important one.
3. Ontario taxpayers will contribute over $1.4 billion in 2012 alone to the teachers pension fund.
This is despite the funds enormous wealth.
Jimssm
You conveniently forgot one.
The most important one.
3. Ontario taxpayers will contribute over $1.4 billion in 2012 alone to the teachers pension fund.
This is despite the funds enormous wealth.
right wing 9/14/2012 9:23:30 PM Report
skippy
Once again you don't have a clue what you are rambling about...but hey carry on, sparks loves it.
skippy
Once again you don't have a clue what you are rambling about...but hey carry on, sparks loves it.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 10:13:19 PM Report
right wing...
I am not sure , just because the teachers have managed their pension plan well, how it allows their employer to refuse to honour their obligation to match contributions.
The gov't hasn't paid that yet, nor the matching contributions from last year. As of now they owe the plan 2.9 BILLION.
The teachers pension plan is a fixed benefit plan, and by law the employer (gov't) matches contributions made by employees (teachers). This is not unlike any other pension plan. Had previous governments not 'borrowed' from the OTPP, maybe there wouldn't be so much to pay back now.
I would also point out that teachers pay CPP, but don't really receive it because their pension is reduced by the amount of CPP when they turn 65.
right wing...
I am not sure , just because the teachers have managed their pension plan well, how it allows their employer to refuse to honour their obligation to match contributions.
The gov't hasn't paid that yet, nor the matching contributions from last year. As of now they owe the plan 2.9 BILLION.
The teachers pension plan is a fixed benefit plan, and by law the employer (gov't) matches contributions made by employees (teachers). This is not unlike any other pension plan. Had previous governments not 'borrowed' from the OTPP, maybe there wouldn't be so much to pay back now.
I would also point out that teachers pay CPP, but don't really receive it because their pension is reduced by the amount of CPP when they turn 65.
Sam C 9/14/2012 10:20:52 PM Report
right wing... that $1.4 billion the taxpayers kick in to the OTPP is a matching contribution. Not only do teachers contribute the same amount, they are also taxpayers.
right wing... that $1.4 billion the taxpayers kick in to the OTPP is a matching contribution. Not only do teachers contribute the same amount, they are also taxpayers.
right wing 9/14/2012 10:39:07 PM Report
Sam C
Big whip.
Golden pension plans that get matched from the the public purse.
The days of these golden filled baskets is coming to a close, the regular taxpayers cannot afford this crap any longer, the kicking and screaming is just starting and far from over.
I have enough teachers in the family and what they make on retirement is what many make working as a living...so don't cry me a river about CPP being clawed back.
These pensions are only possible through the matching of the public purse.
Sam C
Big whip.
Golden pension plans that get matched from the the public purse.
The days of these golden filled baskets is coming to a close, the regular taxpayers cannot afford this crap any longer, the kicking and screaming is just starting and far from over.
I have enough teachers in the family and what they make on retirement is what many make working as a living...so don't cry me a river about CPP being clawed back.
These pensions are only possible through the matching of the public purse.
right wing 9/14/2012 10:40:30 PM Report
"The gov't hasn't paid that yet, nor the matching contributions from last year. As of now they owe the plan 2.9 BILLION."
Well what does that tell you or have you not yet mastered the new math.
(see Clinton math 101)
"The gov't hasn't paid that yet, nor the matching contributions from last year. As of now they owe the plan 2.9 BILLION."
Well what does that tell you or have you not yet mastered the new math.
(see Clinton math 101)
mallet 9/14/2012 10:50:56 PM Report
Right Wing..
I do not know why you are so upset that the teachers pension plan is well off. CPP would be too if the government had not lent the money out at rediculous low rates to the provinces. As part of the negotiated wage and benifits deal, which they, teachers and other government employees, pay into, as we in the UK did in superannuated positions, they are entitled to draw those benifits. Personally I don't begrudge them any of these wage and benifit packages, and I aint a teacher. I worked maintenance at the Tube Mill the Steel Plant and Inco and various other places during the layoffs. The Liberal government is going to lose if the teachers takes this to court, and the only thing that P's me off is that we as taxpayers will end up paying for the governments arragance and inepitude.
Right Wing..
I do not know why you are so upset that the teachers pension plan is well off. CPP would be too if the government had not lent the money out at rediculous low rates to the provinces. As part of the negotiated wage and benifits deal, which they, teachers and other government employees, pay into, as we in the UK did in superannuated positions, they are entitled to draw those benifits. Personally I don't begrudge them any of these wage and benifit packages, and I aint a teacher. I worked maintenance at the Tube Mill the Steel Plant and Inco and various other places during the layoffs. The Liberal government is going to lose if the teachers takes this to court, and the only thing that P's me off is that we as taxpayers will end up paying for the governments arragance and inepitude.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 10:55:10 PM Report
rw
You skip what isn't convenient for your argument. Past governments used funds from the OTPP for other uses so now they have to pay it back....that is the extra.
As far as matching employees contributions, how is that any different than any other fixed benefit pension plan ? Teachers were hired under those conditions, and contributed a good part of their salaries in good faith...why should their employer be allowed to break the law and not put in their fair share ? A teacher is not allowed to 'opt out', so why should the employer ?
Pensions, by the way, are not a part of contract negotiations.
rw
You skip what isn't convenient for your argument. Past governments used funds from the OTPP for other uses so now they have to pay it back....that is the extra.
As far as matching employees contributions, how is that any different than any other fixed benefit pension plan ? Teachers were hired under those conditions, and contributed a good part of their salaries in good faith...why should their employer be allowed to break the law and not put in their fair share ? A teacher is not allowed to 'opt out', so why should the employer ?
Pensions, by the way, are not a part of contract negotiations.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 10:57:33 PM Report
rw
Interesting that you continue to quote the liberal talking points when they suit your argument.
rw
Interesting that you continue to quote the liberal talking points when they suit your argument.
Jimssm 9/14/2012 11:00:33 PM Report
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Reality+Check+Teacher+retirement+gratuities+frequent/7201828/story.html
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Reality+Check+Teacher+retirement+gratuities+frequent/7201828/story.html
Jimssm 9/14/2012 11:35:17 PM Report
Grace...
An interesting article on the guy that produced that disgusting movie. (yes I watched some of it)
http://news.ca.msn.com/world/muhammad-film-creator-identified-by-us-authorities
A convicted felon
Grace...
An interesting article on the guy that produced that disgusting movie. (yes I watched some of it)
http://news.ca.msn.com/world/muhammad-film-creator-identified-by-us-authorities
A convicted felon
Oldie Goldie 9/14/2012 11:57:50 PM Report
Right Wing---The Teacher Negotiators left the bargaining table because a plan was being offered them that contained nothing to negotiate about.
The Liberal Gov't told the Boards to offer them nothing but take backs because they would not give the Boards anything to negotiate about.
The Liberals wanted the Boards to be the bad guys and when that didn't happen they showed their power by Legislating what they could not negotiate.
The Gov't failure will cost them more than if they negotiated.
A B.C Court has already ruled that a Legislated settlement in B.C. was illegal---and that plan was similar to what the Ontario Government legislated.
A legal precedence has already been set and Ontario will lose in the Courts.
Right Wing---The Teacher Negotiators left the bargaining table because a plan was being offered them that contained nothing to negotiate about.
The Liberal Gov't told the Boards to offer them nothing but take backs because they would not give the Boards anything to negotiate about.
The Liberals wanted the Boards to be the bad guys and when that didn't happen they showed their power by Legislating what they could not negotiate.
The Gov't failure will cost them more than if they negotiated.
A B.C Court has already ruled that a Legislated settlement in B.C. was illegal---and that plan was similar to what the Ontario Government legislated.
A legal precedence has already been set and Ontario will lose in the Courts.
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