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Eighteen Million Dollar Arena

By Andy Martens

The new proposed arena sounds wonderful, but the reality is the costs of building it are going to be much higher. The Mayor and Council are using smoke, and mirrors to hide the facts.

Just last week, before the council meeting we suddenly find that the costs of the arena will be increasing by $3.6 million. That would equal a 1.5 per cent increase in taxes for the average homeowner.

The problem I’ve with that is it will increase the tax rate from 3 per cent to 4.5 per cent or higher every year. We in this city will be lucky if our taxes increase by only 3 percent each year.

I’ve mentioned from the beginning that the true cost to the taxpayer is much higher than council is letting you believe. The only monies that council has in the bank is $7 million. The provincial government and federal government each have split on this amount.

The rest of the financial plan is shaky. It was shaky six months ago, and still is today. Nothing has changed. When you cut through the chase, the real cost at this point to the taxpayers is 18 million dollars.

I’ve spoken to a few councillors about this in the last couple of weeks, they did admit to me privately that they are bitting their nails over this dilemma on the arena.

Will the cost to build this arena go higher than $25 million dollars?. I think the possibility is very good.

The Mayor and councillors need to do a better job of realizing that there is only one taxpayer in this community. We’ve a declining population base. Building a new arena isn’t going to change that fact.

The city needs to do a better job at promoting the net benefits of the arena. What would be the economic impact be without the Soo Greyhounds in this community?

I have always lived by this motto. You’ve to live within your means in life. I’m not convinced that city council has done that with the new arena.

THOUGHTS TO END THE DAY WITH: The debate regarding Boxing Day opening in Sault Ste. Marie is over. I’m glad that city council came to its senses, and saw the light. This community is open for business. This issue is no different from Sunday shopping. People like to shop on Sundays, and they will do the same on Boxing Day. We need to do a better job in Sault Ste. Marie of accepting change. The problem in this community is that we’ve an old guard mentality that refuses to climb aboard the train of and ride into the 21 st century. It's true that Sault Ste Marie isn't Toronto, but we can do a heck of a lot better than we're doing right now.

Canadian Tire presented the facts to council last Monday night. Retail is changing in Ontario.

The people who don’t like the hours should get out of the business.

Posted Saturday, November 06, 2004

There are 105 responses.

Agreed!!! Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:23:57 AM

Right On Andy! SSM is open for business! That's right! If some don't like it, they are in the wrong line of work!

Welcome back to the soo editorial page by the way!

Welcome Back! We Have Been Waiting! Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:43:15 AM

Agreed Council Finally Showed That The Sault Is Open For Business. Once Again As It Was Since 2000 Stores Have The Choice To Be Open Or Closed.

And For The Arena We Need More Than A Rinky Dink Arena. I Want A Bigger One! For A Few More Dollars A Year We Could Build A Huge One!

99 Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:50:27 AM

We can't fill the Gardens now with fans, what makes you think we can fill a new arena?

Luckyluc Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:55:08 AM

Welcome back Andy

I agree with your take on the arena...Its bound to cost us a lot more than city hall is letting on,...my feelings is we'll find out the true cost when its too late to do anyting about it, and we'll be forced to foot the bill at the expense of other programs.
as for your other point about boxing day opening...there's no law that says you have to like everything about your job or you have to quit...do you like everything about your job?...of course retail workers have been made to feel that their opinions dont count, that they should'nt even have one and they should crawl into a hole and die...just because they had the temerity to disagree with some of the comments and tried to tell their side of the story...how's that for free speech?...Any comment on that Andy?

So what do we do then Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:58:17 AM

By the way, will you just go away Andy.

Why don't we do nothing. Just let the mighty Memorial Gardens rot to the ground. That won't cost the tax payer anything except future opportunity costs like attracting new citizens to our city to add to our tax base. Demorialize our citizens futher causing more to leave and leving us with a third rate building to showcase our city.

Or, we can spend seven milion dollars to upgrade our again bulding and be able to access any gov't money. We will than have a refurbished fifty year old building without any modern ameneites. and we will have to sink more money into evey few years has the building gets older. We are left with a very expensive status quo. This will save us half-the money upfront

Or we can bite the bullet and buld a new arena that the whole city can be proud of. An arena that will showcase our Greyhounds, bring in big concerts and house local events, create much-needed positive sentiments for SSM, can be used to toursim, sports and convention purposes and a building we don't have to worry about for many more years.

According to the last council meeting, Sault Ste. Marie has done a great job according the bond raters, staying out fo debt, and we can afford this building. We are talking about $30/year for a $100,000 home owner.

You come to our city from Southern Ontario, look out for your own best interest, and lie to the people for your own politcal intesrest. You have the gall to tell us how to manage our business.

I was born in the city and am proud to call Sault Ste. Marie home. I dream of living in a progressive city with world class amenities (within reason of course)

The fact is, we can't afford NOT to build this arena.

Andy, you are a small-minded idiot whose is cut from the same cloth as Frank Manzo. And by the way, those people always snickering behind your back ARE laughing at you.

PS The frist renderings of the arena are beautiful. Well done to everyone involved! I especialy love the fact thta the origianl tower will be save.

Elizabeth Responded on: 11/6/2004 12:29:10 PM

I agree that the cost of a new arena does not make sense when you consider that Sault Ste Marie has become a seniors' haven. The majority of the tax base lives on a fixed income and are not likely to be using the new arena in any case. As far as business on Boxing Day, I agree that whichever stores want to open..let them. Those who wish to remain closed, that is their choice.

Hey Responded on: 11/6/2004 12:39:44 PM

Why do you think this is an old folks haven,things are finally starting to roll again,there are jobs to be had.
Is the old folks thing all attitude.

Lukyluc Responded on: 11/6/2004 12:40:16 PM

to what do we do then?
we get educated, we ask questions...find out what the true cost will really be...then we can make the right decision...do we realy need to buy a cadilac when all we can afford is a chevy caprice? and how do we know the diferance when city council is blowingsmoke in our eyes? I too would love to see a new arena built...and soon...but I want to know the real cost

Andy Martens Responded on: 11/6/2004 12:49:02 PM

Thanks for the welcome back. I return to this site mainly because I'm very impressed with the new General Manger of SooToday Marnie Genetti. I support her vision for this site, and will work with her to do my part to make it happen.

goober Responded on: 11/6/2004 12:51:39 PM

yah well, she obviously hasn't met you yet, or read any of your previous drivel.

seagull Responded on: 11/6/2004 1:11:25 PM

Twenty years from now we will say why did we not make the ice surface expandebal to international size e.i. 200 x 100 ft. Our city fathers should learn to think globaly. For $50,000 more it would be possible. Not just the locals could train here, but also out of towners, as there is no rink of this size in the area.

Harrya$$ Responded on: 11/6/2004 1:54:52 PM

Welcome back Andy.It is nice to be able to read something other than the trash some of these posters put here.
Don't pay attention to the trash talkers here Andy.They just like to run the mouth on anyone who disagrees with their small town attitudes.
The smoke and mirrors on the Arena is exactly that.The cost has risen and they haven't even done anything yet.
Who ever is or was in charge of this project should have had the Plans in place.The Arena should be under construction not be sitting idle.It seems like there is hesitation to start constuction.
They took money from thr road improvements and put it towards this Arena.One Councillor was after the powers to be to put this monies back into Road improvements.
With all this smoke and mirrors and doubletalk.We are going to end up with one major tax hike.
My suggestion is this .Why don't this Arena committee and The Mayor approach ASI for some kind of assistance or grant towards the construction of this Arena.The City did help ASI when it needed support a few years back.Is ASI going to do to the City what it did to it's retirees?It doesn't hurt to ask?

Grandma Responded on: 11/6/2004 2:03:22 PM

Back when they built the Memorial Gardens and I was 14 years old when it opened. Times were just as hard as they are now and people said the same thing you are saying now. Human nature never changes. We will get through this the same way we always have. Back over 50 years ago there were not that many people in the Sault either.

bee bop Responded on: 11/6/2004 2:05:56 PM

Yep, a new arena is needed, but not the proposed castle that this council seems to be hell bent on building. We might get one convention a year, big deal, we have talked about building it, but let's look at the upkeep and onging maintenance--bigger the building the more expenses and staff you will require to operate it. Anyone that tells you it will cost around the same as the Gardens to upkeep is a bald face liar!!! Air-conditioning is just one example. Build it and they will come--not in the far North folks, we will have difficulty putting 4,000 fans in this complex, which leaves over 500 empty seats at every game. It is great to be a visionary but a realist is what we need in this case. Where is the money from the corporate boxes that are being built, how about the fund-raising money from the community?? Bottom line the taxpayers are on the hook not for a new rink, but for a "year round" entertainment centre that will be dark the vast majority of the time.

Grandma Responded on: 11/6/2004 2:08:56 PM

is on the money--with one exception--most people, in fact the majority have no problem with a replacement for the Memorial Gardens. The problem is the additonal money to build the Taj Mahal as a tribute the Mayor and Council.

IB Responded on: 11/6/2004 2:20:08 PM

Well although I don't always agree with you....90% of the time at least we have another column back on here.

New Gardens.......overpriced and budget already....get a grip council!

Where's the new hosptial? Rather have that!

Boxing day...retail jobs always suck, get into the union and protect yourselves some!

Welcome back Andy, at least we have someone to pick on now! LOL

Katie Responded on: 11/6/2004 2:38:03 PM

To Andy;
I am fairly new to this site, but you have already offended me.

How would you like it if I demanded you to work for my benefit on a day that has always been deemed a HOLIDAY?

Oh, right that will never happen will it. You want to tell us when to work for your convenience, and how to feel or speak about that?

The people who fought to save a Holiday, didn't lose, they showed a large part of this community how they felt, and that they respect their employees. I thank them, and offer this advice- unionize now!

gramma Responded on: 11/6/2004 2:42:03 PM

to Elizabeth-- No Sault Ste. Marie is not all about senoir citizens who are almost ready to be put out to pasture. In fact the majority of the Soo Greyhound season ticket holders are senoir citizens and a lot of the other fans also are senoirs. Just because you choose to sit home and wait for the green pastures.

For a few years of added taxes [just until the revenues roll in] it will be worth it to have something on Queen st. to proud of again. We have been to other newer arenas and beleive me it is so disheartening to come back to this old barn. Lets just get the darn thing built. What are they waiting for? The longer they wait the more everything will cost. Labour, materials etc.

To the other Grandma, you fially admitted that you aren't near as old as this old girl. Keep busy, come to the greyhound games and you'll live this long too.

sueite Responded on: 11/6/2004 3:01:09 PM

Welcome back Andy..hope you got your suit of armour on.Things will be better once the registration takes place.

Tee Responded on: 11/6/2004 3:37:52 PM

I don't post often but read all the time. Welcome back Andy and just ignore all the darts. Just remember you have them reading and coming back for more.
I am not sure if things will be better with registration but they will be quieter for sure. Might go like the Soonet board where its the same people over and over and over,one gets tired of it.

Shooter Responded on: 11/6/2004 3:51:55 PM

Ian McMillan...Tourism Sault Ste. Marie..what a joke...maybe He should recommend financial assistance for the Tour train...upgrading and better service..that IS T H E tourist draw for our area, not the arena.Yes we need a new arena and a new hospital and roads rebuilt...and it costs alot of money that we don't have...the only way these can be achieved is through BIG tax increases...we don't have the people nor the job base to support this. A few shot months ago..as councillor Celetti pointed out...council found it very difficult to find 21 million for this arena....then last council meetting..the 25 million was " in the bank "..we are not getting the full story on this from the mayor nor JOE..however we will know the real trueth once all is said and done.Sad part is our community will be left holding the Huge price tag bag for this arena.Council only saw ONE artist drawing of an arena...they acted like that was the only one...surely there should be more presentations with different building designs and then a proper choice can be done...maybe at a lower price to boot.

BMHD Responded on: 11/6/2004 4:09:05 PM

I agree that the Arena is just way too expensive - and that council is using smoke and mirrors promoting it. To build this thing just because Federal money is available is foolhardy.

I think this realization will set in come the next election!!

If the Hounds can't fill our present Arena , how will a new arena change that. People will be curious at first, but that won't last!

As far as it being an Entertainment Centre - who will it draw to perform at it? We won't be able to compete with Vegas Kewadin Casino across the river. Money seems to be "no" object for them. We would have to charge too much and people here just won't pay it!

Council better realize that they might have champagne tastes, but unfortunately, they're on a beer buget!

Boxing Day Responded on: 11/6/2004 5:09:02 PM

The issue of Boxing Day isn`t over yet! You can count on that. Sault ste, Marie has never been " open for business " yet. Until I can pay my taxes, do my banking,buy a stamp,or make a doctors appointment on Boxing Day...don`t preach this crap about " open for business " to me.

Belle Responded on: 11/6/2004 5:33:27 PM

Welcome back Andy. I am pleased that you will be on the site again. It is always nice to have another opinion. I also agree that Marnie's dynamic ideas will be very exciting to see as they unfold. Best of Luck.

Peplow Biz-Mall Responded on: 11/6/2004 5:51:59 PM

There is a third option to the Arena Fiasco...

Blow the thing up!

Leave the memorial tower standing but don't replace it with anything! No New 25 million monstrousity, no 8-10 million renovation, just a small demolition cost then Nothing!

Think of the huge savings. No operating losses, no maintenance losses, No big-time acts syphoning money out of the city...The savings are endless!

Let the Greyhounds rent the John Rhodes, the Pee Wee, or the McMeeken, and watch how the people crowd the place to the rafters. Talk about energetic atmosphere again!

I agree, the Memorial Gardens is a piece of junk so lets just get rid of it and make do with whatever else is left over. The Bond Raters will be going crazy over how great the Sault is!!!

P.S. Welcome back Andy. I like the new picture. Oh well, you had your chance.

goober Responded on: 11/6/2004 6:14:52 PM

reading this, anyone else worried about the gene pool?

imp Responded on: 11/6/2004 6:29:54 PM

welcome back Andy - got any new pictures? this one of your Grade 10 graduation, when you were 24, is a little out of date.

fact or fiction Responded on: 11/6/2004 6:47:52 PM

To Boxing Day:
Thank You for what you wrote! You sure hit the nail on the head. Noone else wants to be open either.(Banks, postoffice, etc.) They just want stores to be open at their convenience so they can shop.
We're open Mon-Sun now, some stores are even opening early Sunday morning now- what happened to 12:00? Slowly but surely we'll be open 24/7 if Canadian Tire has it's way, they call that progression.
So when we're open 24/7 when can we get our errands done? Will you all open for us or at the very least extend your hours?
Canadian Tire applied to be open for July 1st, labour Day, and Victoria day this year. They were turned down because we aren't considered a true tourist destination.
Do you think they'll stop there? Don't count on it. If I could get out of retail I would. I don't have the money to go back to school, especially when I'm saving for my kids education.
So all I can do is fight the Big boy on the block. Stop taking away HOLIDAYS from people who need it. I don't want to hear from people saying the Steel Mill/Paper Mill employees have to work those days too. They went to work for a company that doesn't ever close down. They knew this. They also get lots of days off/ double time etc. I know because my husband worked there.
Was it the greatest job in the world, no. Was the pay good-yes. Benefits, vacation etc. Holidays can be celebrated anytime you say. Really, well I would like to celebrate them when everyone else is celebrating them- at CHRISTMAS TIME! One day off to see two sides of a family, and cook a Christmas dinner just doesn't work. Algoma Steel and Paper Mill employees get consecutive days off and then these Holiday times can be arranged.
I'm sick to death of being told how to feel or what to say. I'll work my butt off for you as an employee, just all I ask is to be respected.

99 Responded on: 11/6/2004 6:58:40 PM

To fact or fiction: Canadian Tire is right, retail is a 24/7 business. We will not be a tourist attraction until we get it right.

fact not fiction Responded on: 11/6/2004 7:04:09 PM

To 99:
Do tourists really come here to shop?
Especially at Christmas, yes I can see it now, let's book a vacation to the Sault, there's great shopping there.

Be real 99, at Christmas people come here to VISIT FAMILY! But you'd like to see their family working at the retail stores.

99 define tourist for me, and what about Canadian Tire is considered tourist?

While your at that 99 check and see how much a hotel room goes for at Christmas time. Tourists aren't flocking here at that time. GET REAL

The civic holiday opening makes sense. Boxing Day does not!

Gamma 2 Responded on: 11/6/2004 7:14:01 PM

If I recall the mentality of building the John Rhodes Arena was much the same as the New Memorial Gardens. Just drive by any day of the week and especially Saturday and sunday to see how successful the John Rhodes is. And also take a peak at how many seniors are using the facilities for Aquafit. Go ahead with the Gardens and let's be proud of Sault Ste. Marie

straight talker Responded on: 11/6/2004 7:16:07 PM

To fact not fiction:

Did you go to the meeting at City hall last Monday? Where was Canadian Tire's survey that they had in the store all week before the meeting?

Boxing Day Responded on: 11/6/2004 7:36:09 PM

I would also like to see that servey that Canidian Tire had going. It must not have worked out the way they were hoping, otherwise they would have at least mentioned it at the last council meeting, and they didn`t,to me, that says alot.

OOps Responded on: 11/6/2004 7:55:51 PM

To: Peplow Biz-Mall

I hope you were being sarcastic. Some of you people really think we can let our city diminish all to please bond raters? Who can't afford 30 dollars a year for a new centre?

I think we are missing the boat. I think we should be moving to a larger ice surface. We should be attaching convention facilities to this construction and also asking for a corporate (ASI) infusion of money...while things are good.

Let's move forward...get this done..Maybe by that time, someone will sink a spade in the ground for a new hospital - if we're lucky.

What I think is ludicrous is moving the hospital to the north end of the city...poor accessible to the public and the professional community.However, I am all for a new hospital and location is my only criticism. I remain positive on the need and benefits. What a peice of poor planning and possible catering to interests and agendas we are not privy to. Some day the WHOLE story will emerge that will fill us in on the rationalization for locating this critical institution in the boondocks.

Does anyone understand this. Would like a perspective so that I can fully support the move. WE need this instituion in order to grow. Just can't understand the location.

Let's move Sault Ste. Marie...get the job done and keep building on our infrastructure. This city will fall apart if no one is willing to take risks.

Andy...stop fearmongering. Take your responsibility as a writer more seriously. Get in behind the Sault...

Maybe you know something about the reasons for the proposed hospital location?????

A Parent Responded on: 11/6/2004 8:43:20 PM

When my kids were younger we had a problem with a couple of bully`s at school. I knew the kids, so I went to the parents first( thinking they could deal with it at home ), BIG MISTAKE! Our life got worse. The Board of Education wouldn`t do anything, the Police told us that they could press harassment charges, but life would likely get worse for us if they did. (They knew the people involved ). We ended up moving.To make a long story short, Canadian Tire reminds me of a Big Bully! I am so glad to see ALOT of independant businesses ( the little guy ) are standing up for the retail workers (more little people). Someone needs to stand up to the bully`s sometimes , and to the people that do I want to say THANK YOU !!!!!!!!

2 by 10 Responded on: 11/6/2004 9:46:38 PM

Let's face it, the majority of the people in this town who want a new arena are selfish hockey fans who don't like sitting on 2 by 10 planks to watch their precious game. They could care less if other events took place there because they won't be going anyway.

This whole arena concept is a big scam. If the proponents of a multi-use facility truly believed that the idea could sell, they would have approached the casino a long time ago and proposed am arena/entertainment/hotel complex that could become an integral part of the casino.

Travelling entertainment acts won't use the new arena any more than they've used the Gardens. The reason these groups skip the Soo yet play in old buildings in North Bay and Sudbury isn't because we have an old facility with too few seats, it's because we are out of the way. Acasino connection could change that.

As it stands right now, we are just building a new arena for Lou Lukenda and the Greyhounds and that really isn't a good enough reason to do it.

Mr E. Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:07:54 PM

2 x 10, Your wrong.

Big acts skipped the Sault because once they set up their stage there were either not enough seats to fill or not enough fire exits to satisfy our beloved fire inspectors. The new arena will bring the acts, will bring thinsg such as Wrestling & perhaps an exhibition hockey game or two. You sit back at home and be a hermit soon we will all have a beautiful arena that we can be proud of. WAY TO GO COUNCIL!!!!!

Oh and Andy... welcome back and all that $hit but stick to articles that keep your image as a forward thinking, progressive kinda guy.

2 by 10 Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:15:18 PM

Hey numbnuts I am not wrong. Do you even have a clue about recent bands who skipped the Sault to play at Sudbury and North Bay? No, I didn't think so.

They didn't come here and try out the sound system and our arena doesn't hold any less people than North Bay's barn and the capacity is only a few hundred less than Sudbury Arena. They skipped because WE ARE OUT OF THE WAY!!

By the way, how was the last Hounds game, lunchpail?

As Usual Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:17:32 PM

2 by 10 - Knickleback didn't come here because the arena didn't hold enough people.

Come back lunchpail?

Nickle Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:30:54 PM

They played 10 cities on that tour with less capacity than the Sault and one of those cities was North Bay.

99 Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:37:23 PM

Mr. E, don't fool yourself into believing that the arena will suddenly put the Sault into the big time players circle.

As Usual Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:44:32 PM

To Nickel - Nickelback played 22 cities on that tour. None had capacity less than the Sault.

North Bay can put more people in their arena than here because thay have enough fire exits. We are restricted here.

Semantics Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:52:07 PM

You can quibble over a few seats but the simple fact is they did not come here and set up their stage.

Arena Name: Peterborough Memorial Centre
Capacity: 3808
Built: 1956
Address: 121 Lansdowne St. W, Peterborough, ON, K9J 1Y4

Semantics Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:58:39 PM

Arena Name: North Bay Memorial Gardens
Capacity: 4025
Built: 1955

Semantics Responded on: 11/6/2004 10:59:39 PM

Arena Name: Sault Memorial Gardens
Capacity: 3990
Built: 1949

Semantics Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:00:37 PM

Arena Name: Cornwall Civic Complex, Ed Lumley Arena
Capacity: 4000

99 Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:05:44 PM

Whats the big deal. This new arena is only 500 seats more than the old one. At least they could have proposed something with a couple of thousand more seats.

Space Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:06:58 PM

That way we could have 3500 empty seats at Hounds games instead of 1500.

As Usual Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:11:30 PM

To Semantics - Sault Memorial Gardens capacity is 3,650.

Mr E. Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:16:35 PM

Who cares about total capacity when the stage in on the rink it entends about 1/3 of the arena floor. NOT ENOUGH FIRE EXITS.
I called to order tickets for the Sault when it was posted they were coming only to find out they werent coming. I did go to Sudbury to see them in almost the same size of arena but guess what? More fire exits :)

And btw the last hound game was great! Can't wait to watch them in the new arena!!

Semantics Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:21:28 PM

Gues where this was copied from?

"Sault Ste. Marie Memorial Gardens: This facility has an ice surface of 85’x 200’. It has "ice in" for seven to eight months of the year, and longer if the Soo Greyhounds have an extended play-off season. Also, the facility is used as an entertainment complex for concerts, trade shows, circuses, etc. It was built in 1949. The occupancy load is 4,100 people."

Who Cares? Responded on: 11/6/2004 11:25:32 PM

Mr. E. get your story straight. You are the one that said they didn't come here because the rink didn't hold enough people.

And by the way, where did they put the stage in Sudbury, North Bay, Peterborough etc. Surely not in the stands.

Greyhound Fan Responded on: 11/7/2004 12:21:35 AM

all i can add is hopefully this arena is built and why hasn't council considered building it on the land where the hospitals are now because when the new hospital is built that land will be vacant and besides its a much larger area than the current memorial gardens property. just something to think about

Because Responded on: 11/7/2004 12:24:52 AM

A certain councillor's friends can make alot more money from the sale of the hospital property as a riverfront condominium site than they can make from the sale of the current gardens property.

Greyhound Fan Responded on: 11/7/2004 12:29:38 AM

true

Mr E. Responded on: 11/7/2004 1:39:13 AM

Greyhound fan,

Because we can't tear the hospitals in time to have the arena up. The IDEAL place would be across from the Casino IMHO. But, for some reason we let this primo piece of land sit and wait for a permanent Casino which I highly doubt will come.

Cracky Jones Responded on: 11/7/2004 5:46:47 AM

Welcome back Andy. I agree with very little you say but I give you a great big A for effort. I think you're a nut but so am I and I missed your nutty comments terribly.

It's about time we had a little fun here again. Too bad they're going to spoil it with this registration thing. I'll bet the hits will fall off considerably. Great to see you back Andy. I read you most every day.

One thing I wondered about though, how come you were all for city taxes when I first started to read you and then you began a taxpayers' revolt. Oh but it's great fun to watch you flipflop.

Like I said I give you A for effort. Good luck in your quest for that political job.

I must say you're a lot braver than most of us here. You're willing to put your name to your nutty comments.

Cracky Jones Responded on: 11/7/2004 5:57:20 AM

I shouldn't have said I disagree with most of what you say Andy. Since I've gotten older I have become quite the conservative politically. When you are in your conservative mode I like what you say. Trouble is, you're as fickle as the day is long in summer. But that's what makes the whole thing fun. Great to see you back. Please don't leave us again.

Cracky Jones Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:01:05 AM

By the way, I'm also the Spell Checker. Please learn the difference between too and to. That was getting to be TOO much.

Spell Checker Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:12:49 AM

My apologies Andy. I was so excited to see you back that I didn't read your editorial first. It seems that you did learn the difference while away.

Spell Checker Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:15:03 AM

While I'm here Andy, the expression is "cut to the chase".

Peplow Biz-Mall Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:25:53 AM

Ahhh, just blow the arena up. Get rid of it. Don't replace it with anything. It's a civic-money-pit!!! Televise the Sault Greyhound games from some remote rinky-dink arena and see if they can make money off of Ad Revenues.

Get rid of the Gardens but leave the Memorial!!!

If you think that this is such a crazy idea then answer the following question: WHERE WILL THE HOUNDS PLAY WHILE THE CIVIC-MONEY-PIT IS CONSTRUCTED?

cynic Responded on: 11/7/2004 7:49:03 AM

in the civic money pit right beside where the new one's going, Einstein.

billy pilgrim Responded on: 11/7/2004 8:26:32 AM

WHERE WILL THE HOUNDS PLAY WHILE THE CIVIC-MONEY-PIT IS CONSTRUCTED?

According to the latest plans, they will play in the existing Memorial Gardens until the new area is built beside it.
When the new area is completed, the old Gardens will be demolished and a parking lot will go where the old area stood—the tower will be saved.

gramma Responded on: 11/7/2004 10:35:00 AM

anyone with half-a-brain can figure that one out. Would you tear down your 0ld house before your new one was built?

Peplow Biz-Mall Responded on: 11/7/2004 10:38:50 AM

Andy Martens Responded on: 11/7/2004 11:22:23 AM

One further comment to my editorial. I'm not really convinced that the current location for the new arena is the best site in the city.

goober Responded on: 11/7/2004 1:01:47 PM

well, where shall we put it then, oh urban planning expert?

goober Responded on: 11/7/2004 1:05:45 PM

I expect you're one of those people, Martens, when this fantastic addition to our city is built, will be jumping on the bandwagon to take credit for it.

By the way, you need an updated picture on here. That one of your Grade 10 graduation, when you were 24, is a bit outdated, no?

Barry Morris Responded on: 11/7/2004 3:22:38 PM

No, no, keep the arena downtown. Heaven knows that there will be LOTS of parking available soon where stores used to be.

Peplow Biz-Mall Responded on: 11/7/2004 5:23:09 PM

Demolish it. Leave it demolished. It's a money pit with lots of down-side and very little up-side.

Harryass Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:02:59 PM

Why not combine the New arena and Casino together?This would truely make it an Entertainment Centre.The Casino could be a sponser for those big name acts that skip this town.Then again that makes too much sense.Welcome back again Andy.

Eagle Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:20:48 PM

To Boxing Day;

Did you hear Lou Turco's comments on the radio? I didn't but read it on another post.

I guess he said he was at his favourite store Canadian Tire..blah..blah.

I agree that this man can have a favourite store of his choosing, but doesn't this seem a little in conflict with his position as a Councillor who voted on the Boxing Day issue?

Who gets to tell him he's in conflict?

I personally would love to!

99 Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:33:06 PM

Eagle, Lou Turco isn't in a conflict. He isn't in the council chamber on a Sunday.

Peplow Biz-Mall Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:34:07 PM

Combine it with the Station Mall.

Use some of the Station Mall parking lot to build the new arena complex and turn the current Gardens site into parking for the mall/arena.

Either that or demolish the Arena altogether. Who needs it.

Eagle Responded on: 11/7/2004 6:52:22 PM

To 99:

Who said this radio advertisement was on a Sunday?

And two years ago several councillors stepped off decision claiming conflict. One in particular had a wife that worked at A&P!!

That logic just doesn't work. If he's buddies with Canadian Tire and it's managers, doesn't it benefit him and his radio station to make them happy?

You can't take off your Councillor cloak on Sunday, because it suits you.

Mr E. Responded on: 11/7/2004 8:26:39 PM

A casino/arena/hotel would be great but...
The Sault Casino is the worst money generating Casino in Ontario, it's no wonder the OLGC does not wish to invest in something bigger.

hey Andy Responded on: 11/7/2004 9:06:47 PM

why don't you invite Jamie Caicco for a one-on-one exclusive interview as to why he voted in favour of the proposed strip joint? Ask him if he will put that vote down on his campaign pamphlet when he runs again? Moreover, why not ask Smiling Steve Butland, a guy who has lived off public dole of tax money in the public sector, even on the school board as to why he voted in favour of a strip joint? And Debbie Amaroso as the only female who supported expanding this very respectable business in our city in our downtown area fresh for tourists to see?

Lemme see...a real estate agent, a former politician and mayor and school board person and a woman who feminists would look at as a modern woman, an elder Sheila Copps perhaps in the same mould....will any or all three of these people have the testicles to put their vote on their campaign pamphlets Andy?

I suggest you make them eat crow when it comes down for them to come hat in hand to our doors humbly and nicely kissing our babies and telling us how they need our vote.

Nice morals for our city, for our children and for women. Exposing genitals to men who hip and hollar for a dollar....great advancement for women and humanity.

Cant wait Responded on: 11/7/2004 10:19:58 PM

to hear what Andy thinks of Bingobrain Brenda...this surely will demand a column.

once again Responded on: 11/7/2004 10:32:20 PM

If you don't want to work Boxing Day then quit. If I choose to go shopping, I do not want to see the unhappy faces of people who would rather be somewhere else. Get over it, the times they are a changing and if you feel strongly about stores being closed on Boxing Day then vote with your wallet. Otherwise leave free enterprise alone~!

actually Responded on: 11/8/2004 7:05:34 AM

The people who voted for the opening of PP were doing so because they are aware that it would be illegal to stop them. Strip clubs are legal and the Fizers hold the license. City council will lose in front of the OMB and have to pay for legal costs out of taxes. Just like the boxing day debate.

torn Responded on: 11/8/2004 10:31:42 AM

surely the Soo must get with the times:
(1) new rink : we need it no matter the cost, the longer we wait, the higher the cost, ask yourself should we spend 7 or 8 million to "repair" the existing one or go new? Building new sure won't hurt the cities image. ( 2 ) Hoilday shopping, if we are so against it lets stay OUT of the stores on boxing day

Different Idea Responded on: 11/8/2004 11:39:43 AM

Make the arena not an arena. If it was a nice convention center with conference rooms of different sizes, a good food service, and entertainment center with stages for drama as well as musical productions, nice restaurents, and a reasonable sized rink with attached hotel, I bet it would do well. Make an overpass to the mall and casino, put in a museum/art gallery, have the tour train staion inside..... wait a minute, isn't this what the Gateway should be? (and with a hefty contribution from the Heritage Fund too). Put it on that toxic dump across from the Casino and make a nice Memorial Park with just the tower, maybe move the war memorial from the courthouse, and have GREEN SPACE on the Gardens site.

Creative, different, constructive, functional, environmentally friendly (ie Naturally Gifted....). Something new for Sault Ste. Marie. It'll never fly.

Pure Platinum Controversey Responded on: 11/8/2004 12:25:51 PM

The Fizers hold the licence? Licence for what? They left Gt. Northern Road and got that licence for that location not a carte blanche to open wherever they want. They had to reapply for what?

Randy Rink Responded on: 11/8/2004 12:33:04 PM

Actually Nickelback is one band that did not come because of our lacking facilities.

As for the capacity of Memorial Gardens, there were over 4,000 fans when the Hounds one the Memorial Cup.

It is time Saultites recognized we are not a small town. Sault Ste. Marie's population puts it in the top 50 in Canada, so it is actually a larger centre.

As such, it is time we stopped going for the quick and easy fix with our facilities. We have a fairly new pool, but it is not the 50-metre pool required for provincial and national events. Hence, Sudbury is the centre of swimming in the region.

The ice pad that was added at John Rhodes Centre only has a small number of seats, so if there is a big tournament, it cannot accommodate any amount of fans.

I don't want to see our new arena given the short shrift just to save a few bucks. We can't even get any decent concerts here now, we have to go to Vegas Kewadin!!

OOps Responded on: 11/8/2004 7:02:46 PM

Different Idea....good for you. I think the same. Too bad others aren't as creative.

What you suggest would be stellar. I wonder if it is too late, as usual.

Satan Responded on: 11/8/2004 9:51:55 PM

One thing you do not mention in your column is the cost to taxpayers if we do not build a new arena. I believe the 1999 dollar figure to repair the existing facility was 7 million. Adjust that and we will probably be at 10 million (not even taking into account the additional things that have to be fixed since 1999). Your 18 million dollar number is a worst case scenario and even so, it only amounts to an addition 8 million dollars for a new facility. I just hope they get the shovels in the ground before that 25 turns into 30.

goober Responded on: 11/8/2004 10:05:25 PM

I hope they build a spectacular, fantastic, ultra modern facility, which will be the envy of other centres - and I hope I see Martens there, at the Memorial Cup, when the place is jammed with 5000 fans for the 6th day in a row, eating a jumbo "crow" dog.

99 Responded on: 11/8/2004 10:34:30 PM

Goober will you pay for it?

goober Responded on: 11/8/2004 11:06:15 PM

sure, along with the other 40,000 odd taxpayers, I'd be happy to.

Randy Rink Responded on: 11/9/2004 12:03:40 AM

I agree with Different Idea. Why does the new arena have to be on the site of the old one? As it is, they are going to have to buy parking. Move it to a site that would allow for future expansion to link up with other recreation facilities and create a cluster. I know of some other communities that have done this. Driving by the current memorial gardens, I do not see how you could add a lot more, even when the old gardens is torn down.

Out of Town View Responded on: 11/9/2004 8:38:36 AM

To bad you guys and dolls only want to fight and cry. When every other city in Ontario is building new things. When someone wants something new everyone jumps on them and kicks them to the ground. Maybe you want to be like Elliot Lake?

Randy Rink Responded on: 11/9/2004 10:20:36 AM

I am not concerned with what other Ontario cities are doing! I care what Sault Ste. Marie is ... or in some cases ... isn't doing. We need to be leaders. Sault Ste. Marie is not some small 30,000 or 40,000 population community. Our infrastructure has been allowed to deteriorate over the years and we have little to attract visitors. Now other communities are getting things that were proposed here. Mackinaw City has a water park. That could have been incorporated into the pool when it was built, but oh no, we could not even build a full-sized, 50 metre pool. Ours is the only arena where players are standing at centre ice and can get a shower at the same time ... because of the leaky roof. The Gateway/Legacy Quest project is a farce. When will it ever get off the ground? Let's get growing ... instead of groaning.

well Randy Responded on: 11/9/2004 11:36:38 AM

why not let the Greyhound owners pay for the arena since it will benefit their stock more than mine. I shouldn't have to pay for it because I couldn't give a damn about hockey. Investing in Soo College and Algoman University or the hospital makes more sense.

Nathan Responded on: 11/9/2004 11:45:46 AM

"I couldn't give a damn about hockey."

Isn't this concidered treason in Canada?

If not, it should be...

Spell Checker Responded on: 11/9/2004 3:26:33 PM

No, it is not "concidered" treason and for your information there are many of us not interested in professional sports. I happen to think we should CONSIDER bad spelling treason. Your time could be better spent learning how to spell correctly than wasting your time and money on professional sports.

Nathan Responded on: 11/9/2004 3:33:33 PM

First, the OHL is not professional.

Second, I was joking. Get a sense of humour.

TO NATHAN Responded on: 11/9/2004 5:21:22 PM

You have got to be the most lame person who posts on here. Do us all a favour and get a new hobby like birdwatching or bumdarts.

LOSER!!!!!!

Spell Checker Responded on: 11/9/2004 6:20:37 PM

Nathan, I know it is not considered professional but as far as I'm concerned, if they charge for it and make money at it, it's professional.

SEMI-PRO Responded on: 11/9/2004 6:25:39 PM

IT's called semi-pro.

And Nathan, stop acting like you know what the hell you are talking about, because half the time you don't.

No wonder you are always on here supporting Bush, you are both stupid people who think they know what the hell they are talking about.

TO GOOBER Responded on: 11/9/2004 6:34:08 PM

That name suits you! JACKASS

RIGHT WINGER Responded on: 11/9/2004 6:42:10 PM

Welcome back Spell Checker

Nathan Responded on: 11/9/2004 10:51:10 PM

"And Nathan, stop acting like you know what the hell you are talking about, because half the time you don't."

You mean the half of the time that I disagree with your left wing politics?

As for my intelligence, say what you will, you don't know me, I don't know you and your comments mean nothing to me.

Maybe you'd like me if you got to know me better?

to seagull Responded on: 11/9/2004 11:12:45 PM

I don't know if anyone has said anything yet but Big Bear arena across the river has two ice pads (one nhl sized and one olympic sized)... sorry to step on your dreams

Spell Checker Responded on: 11/10/2004 9:02:26 AM

Thanks Right Winger. It's always nice to see that some people appreciate my presence. I read every day but find it rather futile to respond much as the Spell Checker. I have two more aliases but I figure I will be taken more seriously with them than as the Spell Checker.

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